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Hi all,
I got a 1995 Yardman 800 (Kohler 20 HP hydrostatic) for free from a friend. 50" deck and the subject snow blower. Learning on a free rusty old garden tractor has to be better than learning on a new expensive one, right?

I have things working OK except the weight box sticks out behind the tractor and is SO low that it drags when I am on uneven surfaces (which is most of the time). Doesn't help that the prior owner welded a plate to the bottom with a ball on the back.

This thing is an anchor. I can lose traction (with rear chains) even with a 50 pound weight on each rear tire, 210 pounds of sand in the box and my 175 pounds on the seat. Turn the front tires? They just catch sideways in the snow and I go nowhere. OK, so VERY small angle turns if I haven't blown that area yet. Don't even think about backing up hill. It is hard enough to go up hill forward. Then add dips that raise the front wheels and it will stuff the ball and box into the snow behind the tractor. It MIGHT be able to drag through but if I try to back up in this condition, I just cram it into the ground and am dead stopped.

So, I imagine if I can find someone with a welder, I can rip the plate and ball off. But I'm sure I'd still be dragging the box and cramming it into the ground if I back up. I'm wondering if it is reasonable to take the thing to a metal/machine shop and have them make a bracket that would support the box higher up, like even a foot. Do you all think that would work or would having the box high cause other problems I haven't thought of?

Here is the parts picture if it helps
http://c.searspartsdirect.com/lis_png/PLDM/WL000490-00003.png

How are other weight boxes made/attached to tractors? I can't believe that every one is designed to be just a few inches above the ground. I can't be the only one with this problem. After all a "garden" tractor should be able to handle other than dead flat and level surfaces.

Thanks,
Bruce

For weight ballast to be the most effective you want it as low as possible. The higher it is the more you will be top heavy.
BUT you obviously can not have it so low it drags, no weight advantage once it makes contact with the earth.
It is easy to Overload your rear axles so you should be using the weight as a counter balance for front mounted attachments, and not the perfect solution for inadequate traction... :smile:KennyV

"Metz12" added a weight box to his mower, and said it works well when plowing. I borrowed these pictures from his album to show you. If you want more info on it just wait for him to reply to this thread.

(http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/members/metz12-albums-mower-weight-box-picture10586-002.html)

(http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/members/metz12-albums-mower-weight-box-picture10587-005.html)

like fanatic said, i put a weight box on my tractor for plowing and it works great! didnt need chains, i only put about 30-35pounds in the thing. and plus, both of our tractirs are almost the same. and if you would like more help, please post pictures so we have a better idea of what your talking about!!

metz12 said:

like fanatic said, i put a weight box on my tractor for plowing and it works great! didn't need chains, i only put about 30-35pounds in the thing. and plus, both of our tractors are almost the same. and if you would like more help, please post pictures so we have a better idea of what you're talking about!!

Click to expand...

Thanks guys.

Metz - You are plowing what I'm guessing is a fairly flat and maybe fairly level surface, maybe even paved? None of this describes what I am clearing :wink: The blower weighs in at about 350#, I don't think 35# in the box will cut it. At the moment I have about 185# in the box. It used to be 210# but the top of one bag was sticking out and got ripped by the tire chain. Thus I unnecessarily sanded some of the area :laughing:


Looks like it DOESN'T have to be as low as possible though. :smile: Keeping Kenny's comments in mind, I can probably get by if it is even 4" to 6" higher, especially if the ball and plate are removed. To be fair, if the front wheels are on a rise high enough to catch the rear of the box raised 6", this little tractor isn't going to push all that weight up it anyway. Presumably I could manage if all I'm occasionally dragging is the support rails under the box and no longer dealing with the plate and ball on the back. I'll do some measurements and see what the most likely minimum height increase would be and see if I can get the box modified.

Hmm, I have to look and see how the box is attached to the rails that slide into the blower support frame. If I've been good, it is bolted on and I can create my own "raiser" out of wood or angle iron. If not, I'm at the mercy of someone with a welder and the ability to make something that will hold the box and slip into the support frame. I'm pretty sure the rust, er I mean rear shroud over the gas tank, won't support much weight.

I won't be able to get pictures for a few days but I'll do my best. In the meantime, take your box and put the front edge of the bottom of it just behind and below the nut on the ball shown in you picture THEN stick a piece of plate metal on the bottom of the rear of the box and a ball on the end of that Then run the tractor over lumpy terrain where the front wheels will be higher than the rear and the back of the box is dragging :smile: THEN have the rear wheels sink some and try to back up jamming the ball into the ground .... You'll have a pretty good idea.

Bruce

bruceha2000 said:

Thanks guys.

Metz - You are plowing what I'm guessing is a fairly flat and maybe fairly level surface, maybe even paved? None of this describes what I am clearing :wink: The blower weighs in at about 350#, I don't think 35# in the box will cut it. At the moment I have about 185# in the box. It used to be 210# but the top of one bag was sticking out and got ripped by the tire chain. Thus I unnecessarily sanded some of the area :laughing:


Looks like it DOESN'T have to be as low as possible though. :smile: Keeping Kenny's comments in mind, I can probably get by if it is even 4" to 6" higher, especially if the ball and plate are removed. To be fair, if the front wheels are on a rise high enough to catch the rear of the box raised 6", this little tractor isn't going to push all that weight up it anyway. Presumably I could manage if all I'm occasionally dragging is the support rails under the box and no longer dealing with the plate and ball on the back. I'll do some measurements and see what the most likely minimum height increase would be and see if I can get the box modified.

Hmm, I have to look and see how the box is attached to the rails that slide into the blower support frame. If I've been good, it is bolted on and I can create my own "raiser" out of wood or angle iron. If not, I'm at the mercy of someone with a welder and the ability to make something that will hold the box and slip into the support frame. I'm pretty sure the rust, er I mean rear shroud over the gas tank, won't support much weight.

I won't be able to get pictures for a few days but I'll do my best. In the meantime, take your box and put the front edge of the bottom of it just behind and below the nut on the ball shown in you picture THEN stick a piece of plate metal on the bottom of the rear of the box and a ball on the end of that Then run the tractor over lumpy terrain where the front wheels will be higher than the rear and the back of the box is dragging :smile: THEN have the rear wheels sink some and try to back up jamming the ball into the ground .... You'll have a pretty good idea.

Bruce

Click to expand...

when i did a paved driveway i put 30 pounds in the thing. i did a path just yesterday in the snow because i just put the drive belt on my mower. i put 60 pounds of weight in the thing and filled the rest with sand. the terrain was dirt, and there are a bunch of hills. didnt slip at all. had to be close to 100pounds in that box and it worked greatly.

Turns out I have NOT been good, the box is welded to the rails that go into the blower frame.
But maybe I can make an "erector set" support that goes into the frame and to which I can bolt the box.

From the side:



From the rear:



As you can see, not a whole lot of clearance under the box and almost none under the ball. I took the ball off yesterday which could help a little, but I'd need a grinder to get its support off the box.

Bruce

so how much do you slip when your snow blowing? i dont think you need to mount the thing so low either, but as kenny said, the lower it is the lower the center of gravity is. my box on my tractor is pretty high but it works well for me. and if your putting so much weight in the back with wheel weights and also tire chains, wouldnt you think your Weighingm the thing down? the also if you could take a picture of your whole rig then that would help me out alot to advise you.

Won't have the opportunity for more pictures until the weekend.

As far as slipping, it does a pretty good job at that if any of the wheels get into uncleared snow. If I lean back I can sometimes get more traction so that would suggest more weight in the box would help. I can't blow down to the ground because it is REALLY uneven and I'd be blowing dirt, grass and gravel all over the place and running into ledge just above the level of the softer ground in some places so I have the plastic skids set to max height. I can get stuck with the rear wheels spinning in a deeper spot which then sinks the box into the snow or ground and I go nowhere as the rear of the tractor is "supported" by the box.

Does all that weight hog it down? Sure does. Moves quite slowly backwards (even with the blower lifted) up slopes I think are not all that steep. The rule is "always go down hill and forward". :smile: And don't turn more than a couple of degrees except on already cleared areas. The front wheels (2WD) just get caught in the snow and act as a brake - forward or backward. And if there is a drop to the side, instead of the front wheels helping steer out of it, they just slide down the hill. Attempts to back out just let the front slide farther down hill. One would want to stay away from running along the side of a slope, but sometimes the snow is blown nice and flat and where that "edge" is may not be that easy to tell. Of course it works that way when mowing with the 50" deck as well, but then you CAN see the ground and stay away (once you've learned about this problem :wink: ).

As far as box height, I think I'd be in pretty good shape if the ball support were removed and the bottom of the box supports were about the height of the gap in the boards just above the ball in the picture. If height of the box were not a stability problem, having it a lot higher would allow an angle support from the blower frame to the back of the box. But that would minimally put the bottom of the box about the height of the top of the wall behind the box in the picture (about in line with the red box on that wall) and I think that would be too high. Given the shallow angle from the blower frame to the back of the box where I *think* I can avoid the problem of the box hitting the ground, I think physics says I would need a very strong welded metal frame that came out of the blower frame, up 90 degrees, then 90 degrees to the back. Maybe with a 45 degree brace but it would be pretty short.

Weight wise, would it be better with more weight in the box slightly higher but without the wheel weights?

I see in the picture that the chain on the left wheel looks loose. How tight should they be? I recall that one going on fairly easily. Really had to fight the right side to get the long hook in and latched.

BTW, the reason the tractor is parked on those 2 by 12s is that the support for the first 6 or 8' of the drive bay floor isn't great and the side of the tractor you see would be lower than the other side by a couple of inches as is evident by the gap under the board under the wheel. AND the ground drops down from the outside to the drive bay floor which then rises toward the back of the barn (and tractor) in the pictures. I had to make a somewhat flat wood support for the wheels from the ground 5' from the barn into the drive bay just to get the tractor in there with the blower and box attached. Not a problem with the mid mount mower of course. Would be less of a problem if the box were higher as well. Not sure just HOW much higher it would have to be to not need any "outside to inside" platform. Guess I'd have to do some measurements with the box removed.

I am a noob in all of this so any technical advice on HOW to blow most efficiently wouldn't be out of place :smile:

Bruce

well to my opinion that box is way too low. maybe a couple of inches higher. that ball hitch does need to go. and the skids should probably be changed to steel and bolted/welded on. your wheel weights are 50lbs you said correct? try putting a little less weight in your box if the thing is bogging down alot. if you have any more questions feel free to ask

OK, more pictures - whole rig:


Front:


Front angle:


Rear angle:


Side:


Side shot of the "ramps" coming out of the barn. Before I added these, the ball would catch on the floor of the barn on the way in (reversing) or out (forward). I can't get any closer to the barn if running parallel to it or the machine will slip sideways down what you can see isn't a particularly steep slope. Chickens in the background enjoying the January thaw.:

bruceha2000 said:

OK, more pictures - whole rig:


Front:

Front angle:

Rear angle:

Side:

Side shot of the "ramps" coming out of the barn. Before I added these, the ball would catch on the floor of the barn on the way in (reversing) or out (forward). I can't get any closer to the barn if running parallel to it or the machine will slip sideways down what you can see isn't a particularly steep slope. Chickens in the background enjoying the January thaw.:

Click to expand...

that is a sweet rig. i want a snowblower front end. do you have the deck for that too?

metz12 said:

that is a sweet rig. i want a snowblower front end. do you have the deck for that too?

Click to expand...

Yep, 50"

All except the sand bags free from a friend at work. Of course "free" takes more immediate money and work than "new". But I've spent no more than a couple hundred dollars on parts (and a whole lot of hours) and I get to learn on a rusty old tractor rather than screwing up a new one :smile:

Check with Google, I'm pretty sure I ran across the same blower presumably new in the box for a few hundred $$. If true, it is a STEAL. Though, unless you live close to the seller, the shipping could be a killer. 350 pounds doesn't ship cheap.

Bruce

bruceha2000 said:

Yep, 50"

All except the sand bags free from a friend at work. Of course "free" takes more immediate money and work than "new". But I've spent no more than a couple hundred dollars on parts (and a whole lot of hours) and I get to learn on a rusty old tractor rather than screwing up a new one :smile:

Check with Google, I'm pretty sure I ran across the same blower presumably new in the box for a few hundred $$. If true, it is a STEAL. Though, unless you live close to the seller, the shipping could be a killer. 350 pounds doesn't ship cheap.

Bruce

Click to expand...

I got my craftsman for free too. i only spent around $30 on belts so far. it ran but i have to redo the belts for the deck. i also got my plow for free (spent a couple bucks on wood for the weight box and the plow mount) and my trailer. i made out pretty well.

Good deals Metz! I'm not sure how you have managed to spend only $30 on belts, I think every one costs at least that much.

I replaced the transmission fan, it was missing a blade and had chunks out of most of the others. I replaced the plastic flat side idler pulley (with a metal one) on the deck after it blew apart while mowing. Also replaced the missing round rubber pad on the brake/clutch pedal. MUCH easier to push on that than the round metal.

I knew I needed the LONG belt for the blower. The prior owner said he went through those. So I took all the pulleys off and wire brushed then fine sanded the insides of them since there was some rust and I imagine that wears the belt pretty fast. I had to replace the 52" belt (from the PTO) because it shredded when really wet snow froze up behind the fan on the blower while I was clearing the chute. The PTO lever didn't want to engage after I cleared the chute so I stopped the tractor again and made sure there was nothing keeping the augers from turning, without knowing the fan could be a problem. I got the PTO to engage but before I could say "hmm, what is that burning smell?" the belt fried. I got a new belt then figured there had to be SOME reason the old one fried as all the pulleys under the tractor were turning. Cleared all the snow on the fan and any ice I could see, could NOT get the fan to turn even with the long belt off the fan pulley. It was like it had been welded on. In the end, I had to whack the edges of the fan blades with a hand sledge (which isn't easy since you have to reach through the augers to do it!) a goodly number of times, watching little flat chunks of ice drop out as it moved maybe 1/4". Once I finally had all the ice out, it turned easily. Live and Learn! And I did. The fan froze in the exact same manner again but this time I knew that if the PTO lever didn't want to engage, whack the fan blades!! :smile:

I'm wondering how many parts were already replaced on my tractor, maybe erroneously. For example, I find references to the lifting links, the right rear being non adjustable. Mine has 4 adjustable links. Then there is the shape. The pictures all make them look perfectly straight, with no different part number for the 46" deck vs the 50" deck I have (in fact, they show in the tractor diagrams, not the deck diagram) and the front links and left rear link are all the same part number. But my rear links are bent and the right rear so severely that it has chunks out if it where it can hit a pulley. I'm not sure it happens with the mower on, I never noticed until I was putting the blower on. You are supposed to use 2 long springs to pull the rear links forward, presumably out of the way as they are not used with the blower. I couldn't get that to work (maybe because of the bends) so I just took them off for the winter. So now I'm wondering if I am supposed to bang the rear links straight before I put them back on for mowing season.

With regard to raising my weight box a few inches, I'm thinking I can help support it structurally using the "ball hole" in the back of the tractor frame to help anchor the box. I have to do some measurements but maybe a piece of threaded rod through the hole connected with nuts on both sides of the frame, then connected somehow to the back of the box near the bottom and top. That should help (I hope) stabilize the box mounted on new "step up" angle iron supports that go into the blower frame in place of the straight ones. Won't have time for that for awhile though :frown: Would have been a good thing to do in the summer, had I known there would be a problem. I figured since the prior owner used it as it was, it was fine. Didn't think about him using it to blow his paved driveway and the sidewalk in front of his house. BIG difference between that and what I am dealing with.

Bruce

Figured I would update with photos (bad as they are) of what I constructed to get the box up higher in case anyone else has a similar problem. I realize I forgot to take a "ground level side shot" for height comparison. I'll update if I get to that.

I took the ball off the plate welded on the bottom back of the box. I left the original box support "rails" as they were and bolted angle iron to the box such that I could put the pins through that and the blower frame where the box rails were originally connected. I was VERY scientific with the decision on how high to raise the box, all sorts of torque calculations and such.

OK, NOT :smile:

I raised it as high as I could, meaning until the original rails ran into the frame of the tractor. I think that was about 4", I forgot to measure. The box had a U shaped fitting of some sort with half inch holes in it mounted up high, facing forward. I have no idea what that was for but I took it off, rotated it 90 degrees and reattached it so one "ear" sits on the tractor frame over the hitch ball hole. It is mostly for added support though the clevis pin through it and the hitch ball hole do add some "anti tilt" factor. To pull the top of the box forward, I used a flat piece of stock with a hole drilled for the convenient (and purpose unknown) pin that comes out of the right side of the tractor just behind the axle. It already had a hole for a retaining pin. The other end is connected to the top of the angle iron on the right side of the box. My 25 year old 3/8" drill hung up when I was drilling the holes and fried just as I unlocked the trigger. New 1/2" drill coming for my birthday :thumbsup: As a result, it is currently held loosely by a too long and too small bolt. But it seems to be doing the job.

I am using only two 70# sand bags, per Metx12's suggestion to use a little less weight. It all seems to be working OK and I didn't get hung up when blowing the last time though I have to admit I wasn't pushing my luck trying to do the areas where I REALLY got hung up before and had to take the box off because I couldn't move at all with it stuck in the snow. Still, it was much better in the "problem but not TOO bad" areas.


Side connection on the left


"Overall" support picture


Angle brace.


The U shaped thing. Amazing it is clear at all since I couldn't see it through the viewfinder with the lack of light down there.


Bruce

good job. i'm glad that you didnt get hung up in the parts that you did before. is it riding all right now or is it still weighing down the rear end? i bet about 50lbs in the box would do fine or even less since you have the wheel weights and the chains on your back tires. but whatever works works.

hi could you please post 1 picture of the front of your lawnmower right where the snow blower itself mounts to the frame of the lawn mower because i have same lawnmower only a vanguard twin 20 hp and i was going to buy a snow blower but the snowblower i was going to buy , the last fidget of the model number was different than yours, your snowblower model number is 190-831, and the one i wanted to buy is a 190-032, so i didn't know if it would fit on mine, everything looked pretty much the same though from what i could see.

1566_Cowboy said:

hi could you please post 1 picture of the front of your lawnmower right where the snow blower itself mounts to the frame of the lawn mower because i have same lawnmower only a vanguard twin 20 hp and i was going to buy a snow blower but the snowblower i was going to buy , the last fidget of the model number was different than yours, your snowblower model number is 190-831, and the one i wanted to buy is a 190-032, so i didn't know if it would fit on mine, everything looked pretty much the same though from what i could see.

Click to expand...

Sorry, can't do it. I sold it a few weeks ago, replaced with a 54" Craftsman Garden Tractor in the spring and a "just received" 50" Agri-fab blower.

The blower on the old machine was permanently mounted to rails that ran the entire length of the tractor and bolted on in several places. Took a fair bit of finagling and lifting to get it bolted in then another decent effort to attach the "helper" springs up front. Not the sort of thing you want to do often. The weight box slid into the end of the rails, or did until I rigged the "higher position" setup.

I looked up the 032 and I think it is probably more like the Agri-fab I just got. There are mounting plates with shoulder bolts that you attach to the front frame (these can be permanent if you don't care about having the brush guard on in the summer) and the blower is EASY to put on. Pull the tractor up to it, tilt with the long handle and slide the slotted plates on the blower over the shoulder bolts. Two clevis pins and two hairclips hold it in place then you attach the belt to the clutch/idler assembly. The clutch/idler assembly is the only thing that has to come off to use the mower. That part is a WHOLE lot easier to put on/take off as well. The old one had 4 bolts and nuts. The new one has slotted plates that slide over shoulder bolts you install on the frame (they can be left on the tractor when you use the mower) and two special clevis pins with "pull ring" ends, secured with 2 hairclips. No more laying on my back getting it positioned and trying to hold up a fair amount of weight with one hand so I can put in the first 2 bolts. With the "modern design" once the "tractor frame parts" are attached, removing the blower requires only removing the PTO drive belt and pulling 4 hairclips, and 4 clevis pins. Because my blower is lifted by a winch, I also need to pull 2 electrical connections for the winch limit switches and a hairclip and washer where the winch cable attaches to the blower.