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LLC.

Mar 7, 2014#1

jekjr

What are the Pros and Cons of having an LLC when in the lawn maint business?

Mar 8, 2014#2

Ric

jekjr said:
What are the Pros and Cons of having an LLC when in the lawn maint business?

I don't know if there are any pros and cons. Limited Liability Company, meaning that the owners of the LLC, called members and are protected from some or all liability for acts and debts of the LLC depending on state shield laws which basically means if you screw up on the job they can sue your company but not you personally.

Mar 10, 2014#3

E

edd

i am considering doing an llc for just this protection......my insurance man told me it does not matter.....that if you do something unsafe like mow without a grass flap and hurt somebody that the llc protection is no good......i dont know if i believe that or not.....checked on legal zoom and cost is about 300 dollars.......lawyer wants 1000 dollars to set it up

Mar 10, 2014#4

exotion

I don't want it. My small equipment and I'm safety otiented worst that could happen is me putting a rock through a window... And ill just pay for that out of pocket

Mar 10, 2014#5

Ric

exotion said:
I don't want it. My small equipment and I'm safety oriented worst that could happen is me putting a rock through a window... And ill just pay for that out of pocket

Your going to pay out of pocket? Do you know what a sliding glass door goes for? :laughing: A good invisible dog fence can cost $300 to fix.

Mar 10, 2014#6

exotion

Ya I knew a guy put a rock through a neighbors sliding glass door with an electric hedge trimmer. The neighbors decided to upgrade cost about 3000 ish. While I know that these things are expensive... Car Windows In particular. The likely hood that it does happen is pretty low and in my opinion doesn't justify the cost. Been doing this for 6 years never done any damage. So when it happens ill pay I have enough money is savings to cover just about anything.

Mar 10, 2014#7

Ric

edd said:
i am considering doing an llc for just this protection......my insurance man told me it does not matter.....that if you do something unsafe like mow without a grass flap and hurt somebody that the llc protection is no good......i dont know if i believe that or not.....checked on legal zoom and cost is about 300 dollars.......lawyer wants 1000 dollars to set it up

Basically the way I was told is the only thing an LLC provides is they can't file a lawsuit against you personally or your home. They can only file against your business if you should happen that you hurt something or someone. Sounds like your insurance guy is looking out for himself rather than you.

Mar 10, 2014#8

E

edd

putting a rock thru a window is a small inconvenience compared to putting a rock thru somebodys head.......that is why i am considering LLC ....i am careful too but i dont want to lose everything over some accident

Mar 10, 2014#9

exotion

edd said:
putting a rock thru a window is a small inconvenience compared to putting a rock thru somebodys head.......that is why i am considering LLC ....i am careful too but i dont want to lose everything over some accident

Unless you do commercial... Scratch that. If anyone is ever anywhere near you when you run equipment turn it off...... Ask them nicely to not be there...

Mar 10, 2014#10

jekjr

exotion said:
Unless you do commercial... Scratch that. If anyone is ever anywhere near you when you run equipment turn it off...... Ask them nicely to not be there...

About everything I do is commercial.

Mar 14, 2014#11

D

diyj98

Ric said:
I don't know if there are any pros and cons. Limited Liability Company, meaning that the owners of the LLC, called members and are protected from some or all liability for acts and debts of the LLC depending on state shield laws which basically means if you screw up on the job they can sue your company but not you personally.

I'm no attorney and laws vary by state, but when I did small business consulting I told folks that I felt the legal protection of an LLC was over rated. I "believe" it can offer more protection for bankruptcy cases and may or may not offer tax benefits, but doesn't always protect you from getting sued. I can sue anyone on here for not liking my post, doesn't mean I'll win, but I can still sue. Depending upon the situation, an attorney may sue you your company, you as an individual, the manufacturer of your equipment, your second grade teacher, etc. He'll try to hit as many pockets as possible.

Mar 14, 2014#12

E

edd

i just dont want my personal wealth to be up for grabs over a business accident......my understanding is that an llc means your business wealth or value is all anybody can sue for and get as long as you are not doing anything outrageously wrong

Mar 15, 2014#13

T

tybilly

diyj98 said:
I'm no attorney and laws vary by state, but when I did small business consulting I told folks that I felt the legal protection of an LLC was over rated. I "believe" it can offer more protection for bankruptcy cases and may or may not offer tax benefits, but doesn't always protect you from getting sued. I can sue anyone on here for not liking my post, doesn't mean I'll win, but I can still sue. Depending upon the situation, an attorney may sue you your company, you as an individual, the manufacturer of your equipment, your second grade teacher, etc. He'll try to hit as many pockets as possible.

I like your status..lol.....I had an 855 JD that threw a rock through the wall of my house(not the window)

Mar 15, 2014#14

L

LoCo86

exotion said:
Ya I knew a guy put a rock through a neighbors sliding glass door with an electric hedge trimmer. The neighbors decided to upgrade cost about 3000 ish. While I know that these things are expensive... Car Windows In particular. The likely hood that it does happen is pretty low and in my opinion doesn't justify the cost. Been doing this for 6 years never done any damage. So when it happens ill pay I have enough money is savings to cover just about anything.

Well you better cancel your car, house and medical insurance. You lucky devil.

Mar 15, 2014#15

Ric

edd said:
i just dont want my personal wealth to be up for grabs over a business accident......my understanding is that an llc means your business wealth or value is all anybody can sue for and get as long as you are not doing anything outrageously wrong

That's the way I understand it. It's just the business that they can go after.

Mar 15, 2014#16

Ric

exotion said:
Ya I knew a guy put a rock through a neighbors sliding glass door with an electric hedge trimmer. The neighbors decided to upgrade cost about 3000 ish. While I know that these things are expensive... Car Windows In particular. The likely hood that it does happen is pretty low and in my opinion doesn't justify the cost. Been doing this for 6 years never done any damage. So when it happens ill pay I have enough money is savings to cover just about anything.

The problem with your theory is you can save enough money to pay the damages but you can't save enough money too pay a lawsuit, not when your personal wealth is up for grabs over a business accident. If the person wants to be nasty he can take your business as well as you car, home, everything you own. The problem you have is that people today make a living filing and winning lawsuits. There an accident looking to happen.

Mar 16, 2014#17

E

edd

it is the personal wealth that i want to avoid someone coming after.....hopefully none of this ever happens to any of us but being prepared gives some peace of mind and if forming LLC helps then it is money well spent....however i was told by my ins man that if i am doing something outrageously wrong and cause an accident that somebody can come after personal wealth even with an LLC....that you have to be taking all prudent and neccesary precautions to keep said accident from happening......things that come to mind would be mowing with grass flap up....weed eating without a guard.....cutting with discharge opening toward people or road.....

Mar 16, 2014#18

L

LoCo86

edd said:
it is the personal wealth that i want to avoid someone coming after.....hopefully none of this ever happens to any of us but being prepared gives some peace of mind and if forming LLC helps then it is money well spent....however i was told by my ins man that if i am doing something outrageously wrong and cause an accident that somebody can come after personal wealth even with an LLC....that you have to be taking all prudent and neccesary precautions to keep said accident from happening......things that come to mind would be mowing with grass flap up....weed eating without a guard.....cutting with discharge opening toward people or road.....

I don't know anyone who line trims with a guard on or discharges with the discharge flap down. Whether it's a large or small company.

Mar 16, 2014#19

E

edd

i keep my trimmer guards on but i do cut mostly with grass flap up...especially early in morning....somebody hauls you into court it looks like this would be a safety violation if it caused an accident...in other words something that could have been prevented with forethought.......if people are in the area or traffic going by a red flag goes up with me and i adjust .....like i said hope this never comes in to play......i cut an office building for housing authority and always cut after hours because of the traffic and people yhat go in and out....just one more liability that i can avoid

Mar 16, 2014#20

L

LoCo86

edd said:
i keep my trimmer guards on but i do cut mostly with grass flap up...especially early in morning....somebody hauls you into court it looks like this would be a safety violation if it caused an accident...in other words something that could have been prevented with forethought.......if people are in the area or traffic going by a red flag goes up with me and i adjust .....like i said hope this never comes in to play......i cut an office building for housing authority and always cut after hours because of the traffic and people yhat go in and out....just one more liability that i can avoid

You just have to maintain your situational awareness. I too would mow businesses after hours and residential yards during the day to avoid things like cars people traffic etc... Like you say it just takes a little forethought to lower the liability.

Mar 17, 2014#21

Carscw

Not all mowers come with a discharge flap.

You have to be aware of your surroundings. When we pull up to a yard we do a scan of the houses around us. If we see I house or car with a broke window we take a pic of it with a time and date stamp.
I have not cut yards because there was small kids playing in the yard next door sometimes I have asked the parent to bring the kids inside for a few mins.
If you see a rock stop and pick it up.

The shield on the trimmer is there for a reason. No one has ever gave me a good reason to remove it. Don't say it saves time because I know it's a lie. You take it off because you think you should because you saw someone else do it.

I had a guy take me to court said I hit his car with a rock. The dumb azz scum bag took a rock to court with no signs of it being hit by a blade. It was the size of a baseball. He had to pay me for my time.

Mar 17, 2014#22

L

LoCo86

Carscw said:
Not all mowers come with a discharge flap. You have to be aware of your surroundings. When we pull up to a yard we do a scan of the houses around us. If we see I house or car with a broke window we take a pic of it with a time and date stamp. I have not cut yards because there was small kids playing in the yard next door sometimes I have asked the parent to bring the kids inside for a few mins. If you see a rock stop and pick it up. The shield on the trimmer is there for a reason. No one has ever gave me a good reason to remove it. Don't say it saves time because I know it's a lie. You take it off because you think you should because you saw someone else do it. I had a guy take me to court said I hit his car with a rock. The dumb azz scum bag took a rock to court with no signs of it being hit by a blade. It was the size of a baseball. He had to pay me for my time.

The only reason I take the shield off of my string trimmer is to make it lighter on the head end and to be more maneuverable. It might not be a good reason for you but it works for me. I mow with the flap up because most yards that I do I have been doing for almost a decade and I know every bump, rut and rocky spot to look out for. However, that doesn't eliminate the chance of something happening it just lessens the chance.

Mar 17, 2014#23

Ric

LoCo86 said:
The only reason I take the shield off of my string trimmer is to make it lighter on the head end and to be more maneuverable. It might not be a good reason for you but it works for me. I mow with the flap up because most yards that I do I have been doing for almost a decade and I know every bump, rut and rocky spot to look out for. However, that doesn't eliminate the chance of something happening it just lessens the chance.

I don't use a shield on any of my trimmers, like you said it's just added weight and gets in the way. I do run a discharge chute or flap on the grandstand though, it's rubber and flexible so so don't have to worry about hitting something. Even with the safety shields and discharge chutes in place it's not a 100% safety factor, you can still throw an object. Actually the discharge chute or flap wasn't put on a mower to keep you from discharging or throwing debris but were design to keep people from putting there hands and feet inside the decks and keeping them clear from the blades.

Mar 17, 2014#24

Lawnboy18

edd said:
putting a rock thru a window is a small inconvenience compared to putting a rock thru somebodys head.......that is why i am considering LLC ....i am careful too but i dont want to lose everything over some accident

Very true! Around here it is different. You get insurance if you want and you register yourself if the company name is not with your name. Ex.: Joe's mowing (don't need insurance), but Perfect lines needs to be registered.

Mar 17, 2014#25

jekjr

I got my LLC this afternoon.cost me almost $700. Don't know for sure if it was a good move or not but I decided it might be a good idea.

Mar 18, 2014#26

E

edd

did you go thru a lawyer? legal zoom advertises it for about 300 dollars

Mar 18, 2014#27

jekjr

edd said:
did you go thru a lawyer? legal zoom advertises it for about 300 dollars

I went through a lawyer. She charged me $528 and there was a $158 filing fee at the courthouse.

Jun 6, 2014#28

DSepe

Carscw said:
Not all mowers come with a discharge flap. You have to be aware of your surroundings. When we pull up to a yard we do a scan of the houses around us. If we see I house or car with a broke window we take a pic of it with a time and date stamp. I have not cut yards because there was small kids playing in the yard next door sometimes I have asked the parent to bring the kids inside for a few mins. If you see a rock stop and pick it up. The shield on the trimmer is there for a reason. No one has ever gave me a good reason to remove it. Don't say it saves time because I know it's a lie. You take it off because you think you should because you saw someone else do it. I had a guy take me to court said I hit his car with a rock. The dumb azz scum bag took a rock to court with no signs of it being hit by a blade. It was the size of a baseball. He had to pay me for my time.

Wow that guy is a total scum-bag bottom of the barrel sack of meat. I remember when I was 16 working at a pizza joint and a scummy looking family ate 2 entire pizzas while dining there, only to tell my manager they were burnt...after eating them. Manager offered 2 free pizzas for the "burnt" pizzas. Still pisses me off today. LLC ain't such a bad idea these days.

Jun 6, 2014#29

TaskForceLawnCare

I'm not sure how it works in Evert state. I'm a sole proprietor LLC, and it prevents my personal assets from being confused with business assets in the event something crazy happened. I also carry a $2 mil liability policy for both crews that hit ground everyday. The way I see it is spending a little on the front end could protect you in the event of a lawsuit. We wear high viz shirts put cones out on roads and leave the string trimmer guards on, I can't see where removing them does anything but cause safety issues. My ztrs are dixie chopper and don't even come with discharge chutes we can close the opening though. The bottom line is protect yourself legally the best you can and exercise common sense in the field and you should be fine.

Dec 14, 2014#30

J

jd2007

Carscw said:
Not all mowers come with a discharge flap.

You have to be aware of your surroundings. When we pull up to a yard we do a scan of the houses around us. If we see I house or car with a broke window we take a pic of it with a time and date stamp.
I have not cut yards because there was small kids playing in the yard next door sometimes I have asked the parent to bring the kids inside for a few mins.
If you see a rock stop and pick it up.

The shield on the trimmer is there for a reason. No one has ever gave me a good reason to remove it. Don't say it saves time because I know it's a lie. You take it off because you think you should because you saw someone else do it.

I had a guy take me to court said I hit his car with a rock. The dumb azz scum bag took a rock to court with no signs of it being hit by a blade. It was the size of a baseball. He had to pay me for my time.

Awesome advice. :thumbsup:

Removing the guards from string trimmers could cause damage to the machine's clutch and/or the engine as well.

Feb 19, 2015#31

M

mikeb1982

When you operate under an LLC it also locks in your company name to be yours and only yours, if you do a DBA then your name could be potentially be taken by someone who files for the same name but with the llc at the end. The name I chose for my company was already in use here in idaho but it was available in an llc so i took it. An llc is beneficial for larger companies for a few different reasons, one thing to think about is that you can list your members or managers in the public records and keep your name out of it for private reasons. You don't need to pay 1000 for the paperwork, google Registered agents in your area and get it set up for a couple hundred and usually for a hundred more you can get your legal statement.

Mar 1, 2015#32

M

mikeb1982

You know what I don't get is how come every time the subject of legalities or liabilities comes up with with lawn mowing everybody goes straight to talking about rocks getting flipped through windows. You know what's way more expensive than a window is accidentally killing someone. I was working at a very large lawn mowing company where one of the truck rear ended a 95 year old woman. now she did not die but she almost did and it wasn't even a bad wreck. The company still had to pay over $100,000. Here's the kicker, the lady was in the lane to go straight, she is going through the intersection with our truck behind her, she slammed on her brakes because she wanted to go left and our truck ran into the rear end. So the moral of the story is that crap happens so cover yourselves legally the best you can.

Mar 1, 2015#33

Lawnboy18

Got some very good points there! I am glad I have insurance!

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