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Lawn Boy 2 cycle Ashless oil

#1

J

JWR

Any suggestions on where to buy lawnboy mix oil?
Can't find it in the stores anymore, so I will have to buy it online for the season.


Thanks
John


#2

reynoldston

reynoldston

Super Tech just as good as Ashless, been using it in all my 2 cycle and never a oil problem.


#3

Two-Stroke

Two-Stroke

I don't think the brand of oil is all that important. I'd be interested in hearing exactly why one brand of two-cycle oil is better than another.

I just wouldn't push the mix ratio higher than 50:1. Some people go much higher without any problems but I think that's risky.


#4

H

hankthecrank

Any good 2-cycle oil mixed to the correct ratio will serve you just fine, another thing to consider is a small amount of MMO or Sea-Foam added to your mix.


#5

Two-Stroke

Two-Stroke

hankthecrank said:
Any good 2-cycle oil mixed to the correct ratio will serve you just fine, another thing to consider is a small amount of MMO or Sea-Foam added to your mix.
Click to expand...

It's good to have you back, hankthecrank. It's been way too long -- many questions have come up here in the Lawn-Boy section that I knew you could answer.

About the MMO... what does it do?


#6

K

KennyV

Two-Stroke said:
....

About the MMO... what does it do?
Click to expand...

It's still a mystery...:laughing:


#7

Mwh0428

Mwh0428

I have two cans of the 2 cycle lawnboy ash less oil. I got it seven years ago after my great grandpa died along with the 74 lawnboy. One question is the oil still good because in 1999-2001 he bought a brand new cub cadet self propeled.

Sent from my iPod touch using LMF


#8

Two-Stroke

Two-Stroke

Mwh0428 said:
I have two cans of the 2 cycle lawnboy ash less oil. I got it seven years ago after my great grandpa died along with the 74 lawnboy. One question is the oil still good because in 1999-2001 he bought a brand new cub cadet self propeled.

...
Click to expand...

Tell us about the '74 Lawn-Boy. Model Number? A picture would be great. The mid-1970s were great years for the brand.

Welcome to the forum.


#9

H

hankthecrank

Lubricant, fuel system cleaner.


#10

reed

reed

forget the old oil .i use maxima 927 castor oil 32.1 in all my lawn boys .its exspensive but good stuff. My motorcycle mechanic highly recommends it in all 2 stroke engines.Some one on this site said that it is only for high rpm engines but i beg to differ.it burns real well and ever since i have used it my mower doesnt smoke as much and the little black goop around muffler is gone.i have 5 lawn boys , 2 echo blowers and a echo trimmer , a cr250r honda and they all run great on this oil.it smells great too.i run the 93 octane in everything and have for years with absolutely no problems.


#11

R

Rivets

I've switched 90% of my customers to Opti 2 two cycle oil for all my engines except chain saws. Even the old LB's and two jakes. Have not had any problem, plus the same gas can be used in 24/1, 32/1, 40/1, and 50/1 engines. A lot less gas cans in the shop. Chain saw get stiehl synthetic or moto mix if they get stored for a long time.


#12

Mystik2stroke

Mystik2stroke

Use a real NMMA certifed TCW3 ashless oil, many oils are NOT NMMA cerified, check the list here:

Certification - TC-W3

If an oil company is too cheap to certify, what are they hiding? It's easy to make claims, but what about verification by a third party??:ashamed:


#13

Rudedog

Rudedog

I was using Stihl full synthetic 50:1 with 93 octane Shell gasoline. Is high test/premium a problem?


#14

Two-Stroke

Two-Stroke

Mystik2stroke said:
Use a real NMMA certifed TCW3 ashless oil, many oils are NOT NMMA cerified, check the list here:

Certification - TC-W3

If an oil company is too cheap to certify, what are they hiding? It's easy to make claims, but what about verification by a third party??:ashamed:
Click to expand...

Based on the description on the website linked and the list of two-stroke oils on that website, it appears that the testing procedure is oriented toward marine engines. Those engines typically operate at lower temperatures than the engines on mowers, trimmers, chainsaws, etc. I think that those lower temperatures place different demands on marine two-stroke oil. I've noticed that marine two-stroke oil is labeled differently than the oil I buy for my Lawn-Boys.

So I think that this certification may not apply to the oil needed for two-stroke mowers.

The idea of having a third-party test various oils and certify the ones that meet certain standards is a good one but I'm not sure that the standard for marine two-stroke oil is the optimal standard for Lawn-Boy mowers.


#15

Mystik2stroke

Mystik2stroke

OK, then if TCW3 isn't the best oil for a Lawnboy, I guess the OMC engineers are just idiots, and owner's can safely ignore the manufacturer's time and money spent on testing oils for the engines they designed??

It's your mower, do what you want.:laughing:


#16

R

Rivets

Two-stroke pointed out something that most people don't know, that is, there is a big difference between 2-stroke oils used in marine engines (water cooled) and those used in lawn and garden equipment (air cooled). Air cooled engines must run under much hotter conditions. Using the wrong type of oil will shorten the life of you engine and cause spark plugs to foul very quickly.


#17

reed

reed

not to be rude but this topic is always over cooked on any forum. car dirt bike , boat ect . .just use what makes you happy and what you feel comfortable with. i have 5 vintage lawn boy mowers and they all run great on castor 927 . and i use motul 800 . i even ran the cheap crap from wal mart that has the built in measuring cup for 15 years with no problems .these are lawn mowers not nascars .the big thing is clean your air filter regularly and only mix 1 gallon at atime so fuel doesnt get old . just my 2 cents.didnt mean to piss anyone off .


#18

Rudedog

Rudedog

reed said:
not to be rude but this topic is always over cooked on any forum. car dirt bike , boat ect . .just use what makes you happy and what you feel comfortable with. i have 5 vintage lawn boy mowers and they all run great on castor 927 . and i use motul 800 . i even ran the cheap crap from wal mart that has the built in measuring cup for 15 years with no problems .these are lawn mowers not nascars .the big thing is clean your air filter regularly and only mix 1 gallon at atime so fuel doesnt get old . just my 2 cents.didnt mean to piss anyone off .
Click to expand...

Never been on a forum that didn't have an oil war. What about mixing it with premium/high test gas. Not that I need 93 octane but its easier to mix with the Stihl Ultra synthetic oil since the Stihl saws require high octane. I have no idea whether or not there is a problem specific to Lawn-Boy with 93 octane.


#19

Mystik2stroke

Mystik2stroke

Hey;

Yes, I'm new here so sorry if I came off as harsh, something about oils gets many of us passionate, I have no idea why? I guess I feel it's best to trust the makers of our mowers, I'm sure they know much more than myself at least. That's why they make the big bucks right?

My echo trimmer manual is downright threatening, use the oil they say (any brand) or the warranty is void!


#20

reed

reed

93 octane is fine .i have always used it and my mower repair shop suggests it. these are not high compression engines so i doubt if it affects performance.


#21

Rudedog

Rudedog

reed said:
93 octane is fine .i have always used it and my mower repair shop suggests it. these are not high compression engines so i doubt if it affects performance.
Click to expand...

Thanks Reed!


#22

P

possum

Boy, there are alot of TCW3 oils not on that list. And a good many of them are considered top notch at least around here.


#23

dwross

dwross

I realize thread is quite old, but I have a long history with Lawn-Boy 2-cycle mowers.

I am new to this forum. Since 1972, I have owned only two mowers, both Lawn-Boys. The first was a push version with a magnesium deck. In 1978 I moved to a home with a much larger lawn. I sold the push mower and purchased self propelled model which had the F series engine. I was loyal to Lawn-Boy because I lived in Galesburg, IL where Lawn Boy mowers were manufactured by Gale Products, a division of Outboard Marine Corporation until the mid-80’s when the plant was moved to Mississippi.

I have never used any 2-cycle oil other than Lawn Boy Ashless oil and regular gasoline, both leaded and then unleaded. I have self-maintained my mowers. I can honestly say my “old” mower has started on the first or second pull 90 to 95% of the time since I have owned it. .Over the years, I have probably spent enough on parts to buy two or three new mowers. The amazing thing is I have never had to replace any internal parts of the engine except the brass self-propelled drive gear. I attribute that to a great engineered engine and the use of the Ashless oil. Another interesting fact is when I moved from Galesburg (elevation 500 feet) to Colorado (elevation 6,000 feet) fourteen years ago, I did not have to make any adjustment because of the elevation change.

Sorry for the long winded post. I promise the next will be short.


#24

Boobala

Boobala

Rivets said:
I've switched 90% of my customers to Opti 2 two cycle oil for all my engines except chain saws. Even the old LB's and two jakes. Have not had any problem, plus the same gas can be used in 24/1, 32/1, 40/1, and 50/1 engines. A lot less gas cans in the shop. Chain saw get stiehl synthetic or moto mix if they get stored for a long time.
Click to expand...

Rivets & I don't usually see things in the same light, BUT this is something we DO agree upon, OPTI-2 Synthetic Oil, I've been using it in ALL my 2 cycle gear for OVER 25 years now, no smoke, no carbon build-up, AND NO "BLOWN" or seized engines either !!! I buy the 13oz. bottle and mix 1.2 oz. per GALLON of gas, right at a 100:1 mix, YES.. not a MISPRINT ... 100;1 ratio, scares the Hell outa some folks till they try it, but once you try it you'll be convinced, it's the best !! I can buy it at most Tru-Value, & Ace Hdwre stores and some lawn equipt. dealers that aren't gettin "pushed" to sell another line of oils

http://opti2-4.com/index.php?dispatch=categories.view&category_id=165


#25

F

franchi

Hi All:

Oil used in engines has always been one of my favourite subjects. I have many theories about what to use and what not to use but they are at best opinions.

I have been using 2 stroke engines in model airplanes for many decades and at the present time I have been using the following. No less than 5% castor oil and the rest, 19%, and a good synthetic for modern engines. Older engines get 24% castor and 5% synthetic. I do not think that castor oil is miscible in gasoline. Perhaps with a dash of nitromethane, it will mix. The idea of a bit of synthetic oil in our mix is to prevent castor oil from causing the rings and wrist pins from becoming stuck due to the varnish that will/may build up in our engines. We use alcohol and a dash of nitromethane in our engines. By increasing the C/R to about 12-1 we can avoid the nitro.

I have been cautioned NOT to use a 2 cycle oil that has been formulated for outboard engine use as they lack the viscosity to protect our air cooled lawn mower engines. ???????????????????????????????? I had a 59 VW Bug that was supposed to be lubed with a special oil that was designed for air cooled engines due to the VW"s higher operating temperature. ??????????????????? Never found an oil for air cooled engines!! Perhaps AEROSHELL?


In any case, run what makes YOU happy!!!!!


Be happy,


Franchi


#26

Russ2251

Russ2251

I have been cautioned NOT to use a 2 cycle oil that has been formulated for outboard engine use as they lack the viscosity to protect our air cooled lawn mower engines.
Click to expand...
Cautioned by whom?
Show me a Lawn-Boy manual that says outboard oil should not be used.

I've never been happier...:smile:,

Rusty


#27

AnthemBassMan

AnthemBassMan

Lawn Boy DOES recommend using a TW-C3 approved oil when not using Lawn Boy oil. Unlike chainsaws, trimmers, blowers, etc... Lawn Boy run at a much lower RPM and have a forced air cooling setup. Thus the recommendation of an ashless 2 stroke oil.
25A4CE64-C0B3-4B81-96FE-DA33FC611F69.jpg

L8R,
Matt


#28

F

franchi

Hi Russ:

Good question! It has been many years since I was told this "fact" but if I remember correctly, it came from a spokesperson from OMC. His caution was based on the premise that oils for outboard engines had less viscosity to enable them to be used in engines that were oil injected. I took this information with a large grain of salt due to the idea that the oil was diluted a great deal in the gasoline. I have not seen Saybolt figures for various two cycle oils, have you? Use whatever turns your crank and sleep well at night.

Ash less two cycle oil?? Is this not a prime resituate for all two cycle oils? Advertising hype at its best! There has been more disinformation about engine oils than perhaps another product in history. Anybody remember Arco oil from the 70's that had graphite added for an antifriction additive. Great idea but it appeared to be "dirty" when new. A sales flop. I have read that zinc has been removed from motor oils to add to the bottom line. A great anti wear ingredient that may still only be found in oils for Diesel engines. I would use it but I can only find it in 20-50 weight.


Have a good day,


Franchi


#29

Teds

Teds

franchi said:
I do not think that castor oil is miscible in gasoline. Perhaps with a dash of nitromethane, it will mix.
Franchi
Click to expand...

It doesn't like to blend in gasoline in cold temperatures, but it is long been used as a premix in 2 stroke dirt bike motocross. Castor 927 is about 70% Castor oil and some "modified fatty acids". Some people run castor in their mowers because they like the odor.


#30

Teds

Teds

franchi said:
I have read that zinc has been removed from motor oils to add to the bottom line. A great anti wear ingredient that may still only be found in oils for Diesel engines. I would use it but I can only find it in 20-50 weight.
Franchi
Click to expand...

Zinc and phosphorous. Reductions are (I guess...) due to exhaust catalyst contamination. Rumored to contribute to cam lobe failure particularly in older solid lifter engines. "Break-in" oils usually have lots of zinc and phosphorous.

Rotella is available in 15/40, many people run it exclusively year round in everything from their weedwhacker to the roadgrader and everything in between.


#31

2smoked

2smoked

reed said:
not to be rude but this topic is always over cooked on any forum. car dirt bike , boat ect . .just use what makes you happy and what you feel comfortable with. i have 5 vintage lawn boy mowers and they all run great on castor 927 . and i use motul 800 . i even ran the cheap crap from wal mart that has the built in measuring cup for 15 years with no problems .these are lawn mowers not nascars .the big thing is clean your air filter regularly and only mix 1 gallon at atime so fuel doesnt get old . just my 2 cents.didnt mean to piss anyone off .
Click to expand...

AGREE, AGREE, AGREE:thumbsup:


#32

Teds

Teds

Boobala said:
OPTI-2 Synthetic Oil, I've been using it in ALL my 2 cycle gear for OVER 25 years now, no smoke, no carbon build-up, AND NO "BLOWN" or seized engines either !!! I buy the 13oz. bottle and mix 1.2 oz. per GALLON of gas, right at a 100:1 mix, YES.. not a MISPRINT ... 100;1 ratio, scares the Hell outa some folks till they try it, but once you try it you'll be convinced, it's the best !!
Click to expand...

I'm going to try and post some pics this winter after teardown of a 7265. Has all new internal components in terms of crank, needle bearings at crank and wrist pin, rings, piston, jug etc etc., Has been running Opti-2 at 100-1 for a few seasons now, so should be a valid inspection versus just speculation. Yes, I'm "taking one for the team".

Measured 90 psi. cold compression after rebuild, tho before ring seat. I guess I could check that again now easily enough. It runs great. The published LB cylinder compression specification shows slightly higher figures for a cold engine versus hot. Thought that is odd?? But anyway, we'll see what's what.


#33

AnthemBassMan

AnthemBassMan

Teds said:
It doesn't like to blend in gasoline in cold temperatures, but it is long been used as a premix in 2 stroke dirt bike motocross. Castor 927 is about 70% Castor oil and some "modified fatty acids". Some people run castor in their mowers because they like the odor.
Click to expand...

I used to run Klotz in my old Penton Six Day Trials bike when I was a kid. I ran some hare scrambles in 78-80 with that old beast.

L8R,
Matt


#34

M

Mafioso812

I found Lawn Boy oil at Ace Hardware...just saying.


#35

Russ2251

Russ2251

I found Lawn Boy oil at Ace Hardware
Click to expand...
How much coin did you lay out and for what quantity? Just curious.


#36

AnthemBassMan

AnthemBassMan

My local Ace Hardware sells the 4oz bottles of Lawn Boy oil for $3. But once I'm done with my $8 quart of Pennzoil, I will be getting a 1 gallon jug of Pennzoil XLF 2 stroke oil for $15.88. Now THAT'S a good deal!

L8R,
Matt


#37

Russ2251

Russ2251

Let's do the math kids...

4oz. Lawn-Boy oil @ $3.00 per bottle

128oz. = 1 gallon

128oz. / 4oz. = 32 4oz. bottles per gallon

32 x $3.00 = $96 for Lawn-Boy oil per gallon

Pennzoil @ $15.88 = < $0.50 per 4oz. bottle.

Based on the above, why would anyone insist on purchasing Lawn-Boy oil?
( I think I got it right...:confused3:)


#38

Teds

Teds

Heck, that's not Math, that's Arithmetic.

Opti-2 is about $65 a gallon delivered, lasts a long time. Makes approx. 106 gallons at 1.2 oz per @100-1 (no, not a typo) Good stuff.


#39

Russ2251

Russ2251

I agree, it is good stuff...but does not meet Lawn-Boy (TC-W3) specs.


#40

AnthemBassMan

AnthemBassMan

I was using Amsoil Saber originally in my Lawn Boys, chainsaw, and trimmer. Even though they claim up to 100:1 like Opti-2 does, I have an email directly from Amsoil stating that they recommend only going to 50:1 in vintage Lawn Boys. I will still use the Saber at 50:1 in my saw and trimmer because those are already rated at using 50:1. But I went back to basics and started using the Pennzoil again in my mowers. That 1 gallon jug will mix 32 gallons of fuel for me, so it should last a couple years or so. Now THAT’S cost effective!

L8R,
Matt


#41

Teds

Teds

Russ2251 said:
I agree, it is good stuff...but does not meet Lawn-Boy (TC-W3) specs.
Click to expand...

It exceeds those specs, TC-W3 is actually a water cooled outboard motor classification. The repair shop guys call those cans of Lawn Boy oil "Blue Death" for a reason, I expect. It's not 1975 anymore. Plugs burn clean, as far as a 2 stroke is concerned, the exhaust ports and muffler don't sludge up. Cold Compression 105 psi. What's not to like? 60c a gallon mixed.


#42

Russ2251

Russ2251

It exceeds those specs...
Click to expand...
Got a link?
Lawn-Boy absolutely requires an ashless oil.
JASO oils are low ash and are high temp oils and do not meet NMMA requirements for TC-W3.
Are the Lawn-Boy engineers wrong?


#43

javjacob

javjacob

An air cooled oil is what the Lawn Boys need. The Lawn Boy oil is a outdated low quality oil. I currently use Stihl ultra oil at 32:1 in my Lawn Boys. Switching to Amsoil Saber after I run out of Stihl oil. Im still going to run the Amsoil at 32:1 though, might possibly try 40:1 but leaning towards 32:1.


#44

Russ2251

Russ2251

An air cooled oil is what the Lawn Boys need...The Lawn Boy oil is a outdated low quality oil.
Click to expand...
According to whom?
Please be ready to backup your statements before posting as in the following:
lawnboyoilspec.jpg


#45

N

nitehawk55

Got to love oil threads , almost as bad as talking politics !! :tongue:
I ran a D series for 5-6 years with Castrol 2 cycle oil at 40:1 and decided to do a tear down just to see . No carbon in the exhaust ports , piston really clean , rings free and not stuck , lots of visible oil on needed surfaces . Mower ran perfect and cut a 1/4 acre lot so it saw a lot of use . I think any modern 2 cycle mix is just fine , use what you feel good about.


#46

Russ2251

Russ2251

I ran a D series for 5-6 years with Castrol 2 cycle
Click to expand...
That's because it's TC-W3. Exactly what the Lawn-Boy manual calls out for.


#47

N

nitehawk55

I should have been more specific , it was Stihl branded Castrol oil made to Stihl spec in Canada . I worked for the company in the Tech dept for 17 years . Was not rated TCW3 , chainsaws and other OPE don't do well on that and as far as L-B yes they rev a lot slower then a saw but they run as hot .
Again , use what you feel good using .


#48

Russ2251

Russ2251

yes they rev a lot slower then a saw but they run as hot .
Click to expand...
I don't suppose you could back-up this statement?


#49

Mow'N Weeds

Mow'N Weeds

franchi said:
I have read that zinc has been removed from motor oils to add to the bottom line. A great anti wear ingredient that may still only be found in oils for Diesel engines. I would use it but I can only find it in 20-50 weight.


Have a good day,


Franchi
Click to expand...
Amsoil has a 'Z-Rod' high zinc formula in a 10w30, and then also a high zinc 10w40.


#50

N

nitehawk55

Russ2251 said:
I don't suppose you could back-up this statement?
Click to expand...

Ever heard of a temp sensor ? If I recall the LB ran about 30 degrees cooler than the average saw , so not much difference. . We did a lot of testing on new model production saws in the field and did tear down inspections that were reported directly to home office in Germany. I wasn't at a dealership , it was the head office for all of Canada .

You can use the TCW3 ash free oil Russ , it's perfectly fine I'm sure and if that's what you like using , good . I'm not trying to tell you it isn't suitable for your equipment but I am saying the JASO rated oils are perfectly fine too at recommended mix ratios . I prefer using them at 40:1 and I don't preach that to anyone , just what I feel is suitable . :thumbsup:


#51

Russ2251

Russ2251

No data I guess...

I'll stick with what the engineers figured out what would be best....and not with what "feels suitable".


#52

N

nitehawk55

The TC-W3 oil you use is fine and any JASO-FC or FD is very clean oil too , all suitable for a LB engine .

I would how-ever caution the use of castor bean oils such as Klotz or mix ratios of 100:1 even if the product says you are able to , you may certainly have issues running those in a LB or most any OPE .

That's all I have to say , do your own research .


#53

N

nitehawk55

This is a bit of a read but it gives some solid info on the make-up of the different rated oils .

http://www.dragonfly75.com/motorbike/oil.html


#54

C

Canoester

I'll stick with what the engineers figured out what would be best....and not with what "feels suitable".[/QUOTE said:
Where is the fun with that?

Been running my yard sale find D series 16:1 on 32:1 for the last year and its happy.

My first post is in the oil wars thread! Wooohoo!
Click to expand...


#55

N

nitehawk55

What oil are you using Canoester ?
Yes , you are a brave sole commenting in an oil thread on your 1st post :laughing:


#56

AnthemBassMan

AnthemBassMan

Canoester said:
My first post is in the oil wars thread! Wooohoo!
Click to expand...

Stirring the pot on your first post, eh? Welcome to the club!:biggrin::thumbsup:

L8R,
Matt


#57

C

Canoester

nitehawk55 said:
What oil are you using Canoester ?
Yes , you are a brave sole commenting in an oil thread on your 1st post :laughing:
Click to expand...


To protect my 2 dollar investment I've used the following.

Supertech 2 cycle (current) 32:1 ( No smoke)
LawnBoy 2 cycle when I get to the local hdwe store 32:1 (They all seem to smoke with the real LB oil)
Pro Mix synthetic (universal blend for all ratios) for a couple tanks at 50:1

This is the third LB in the fleet and honestly I did not know it was supposed to be 16:1 till I carefully read the label on the mower.


#58

N

nitehawk55

I like to run any good 2 cycle oil at 32:1 or 40:1 . You need some smoke for bug control :tongue:


#59

B

Bolens800UK

Would you guys use Stihl motomix 2 stroke fuel readily mixed on a vintage Lawnboy mower? I use it on my chainsaws etc.


#60

Russ2251

Russ2251

Would you guys use Stihl motomix 2 stroke fuel readily mixed on a vintage Lawnboy mower?
Click to expand...
No. Lawn-Boy spec calls for TC-W3 which is an ashless oil. Available everywhere.
Chainsaws run at much higher temperatures than Lawn-boy mowers.


#61

B

Bolens800UK

Russ2251 said:
No. Lawn-Boy spec calls for TC-W3 which is an ashless oil. Available everywhere.
Chainsaws run at much higher temperatures than Lawn-boy mowers.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. What ratio should it run on?


#62

Russ2251

Russ2251

What ratio should it run on?
Click to expand...
32/1 or 4oz. oil to 1 gallon gasoline...or...31.3 milliliter to 1 liter.


#63

B

Bolens800UK

Russ2251 said:
32/1 or 4oz. oil to 1 gallon gasoline...or...31.3 milliliter to 1 liter.
Click to expand...

Thanks Russ :thumbsup:

I came across this and might buy it if the price is right. Not sure how old it is?!

Attachments





#64

Russ2251

Russ2251

Bolens800UK said:
Thanks Russ :thumbsup:

I came across this and might buy it if the price is right. Not sure how old it is?!
Click to expand...

Should be ok.


#65

N

nitehawk55

Hey Russ !! , the 70's called and they want to take the old ashless oil back :laughing:


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