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Hi all, New to Zero turns, so any opinions welcome.

Currently a 10-12 year old Craftsman 54" riding mower that's falling apart, so will be buying in the next month. I've got 1.4 acres, flat with mature trees; so a few tree roots to contend with and a couple low spots from removed stumps. Also, many 4x4 fence posts trying to mow around to reduce trimming. Wanted something light tow capable (lawn aerator, trailer for mulch...) which to me requires zt-2800's drives as minimum. Trying to keep the budget around $4500, but we'll see, a couple hundred either way seems to be what I've looked at. The serviceable hydrostat requirement has already bumped this up a thousand from when I started looking last week.

Considering the 48" deck models from local dealers: Kubota z122e, Ferris 400s, or Timecutter HD w/my ride (75211)... One dealer also has 2017 Exmark Pioneer E as Demo (25hrs) for $4400.

Another dealer has offered the Toro for a better than listed sale price to make it more competitive to the other models. But wow, it seems like a big heavy unit in comparison. Any thoughts to help me pick one?

Just read the post on the 400s, wasn't enough to sway me one way or another. I've looked at the Liberty Z, Gravely ZT HD, Raptor SD, & others, but really haven't found too much to differentiate one from another (sorry if I just alienated your favorite mower)

Thanks in advance

Good list of rigs, I know I am considering Z121S and the 400S as well. You might want to check out the Z121S as well as the Z122E. It comes with a better suspended seat standard. It can also be added to the Z122E, but is a +$ option.

I was not overly impressed with the LibertyZ either. I tried out a Z100 series last year and liked it, typical solid Kubota rig. I am replacing a 20yr old Kubota T1560 (rear suspended lawn tractor), so was leaning Kubota, but the 400S suspension really has me interested. Our land is rough enough that suspension/ride is a very high priority for us.

Well, went in to look at the Ferris at another dealer, (1st dealer had a 400s, but not unpacked) and I ended up buying the Toro Timecutter 48 HD with My Ride. I measured wheel base width & length, & it is a significantly heavier & bigger machine, but also several upgrades. He knocked even more money off the already lower than sale price I was previously quoted, free set up/delivery, even let me put in on the credit card with no extra fee. I may be mistaken, but I figured parts & service on the more common unit will end up being cheaper in the long run. Still like the Ferris, but I think the Toro ended up being more mower for the buck.

So you were able to check out both a 400S and the Toro and chose the Toro?

Good to know. From what I see the Timecutter HD is a bit more expensive, can you share what it is you saw as heavier and upgrades versus the Ferris?
I have not found anyone local that has the HD, just Home Depot that has the regular Timecutter. Do you mind sharing what you ended up paying for the HD?

I rode a 400S yesterday andd was very impressed with it. Pretty well layed out, smooth controls, super smooth ride. Not digging the bagger attachment pricing though, OUCH!

4699 for the toro 75211 vs 4199 for the Ferris 400s.

Differences for me were: the 3100 vs 2800 hydro-drives, wheel base/ spread was wider & longer on the toro ( I associate that with more stable), bigger front wheels 13x6.5” vs 11x4”, backs are 22 vs 20”. I also liked the 3 speed transmission mode on the toro...til I get used to it, and easier for the wife (she’s gonna insist on trying it out too). Petty, but the Toro came with hitch, had to buy one for the Ferris.....hate being nickeled & dimmed.

Standing on the back of the Ferris, the suspension only seemed to move an inch or two, thought it might be a bit stiff. The my ride seat has a lot of spring in it. I did prefer the Kawasaki motor on the 400s. I bought the 84$ maintenance box with the toro that extended the warranty to 4 years which matches Ferris (limited time offer).

All three of the Ferris dealers are 15-20 miles from me...but I’ve got 2 toro dealers less than 5 miles from home.

We’ll see, it gets dropped off Saturday.

WOW that is a great price on both, color me jealous, very cool you have a good aggressive dealer. There is one local dealership with two stores here, so they have the region locked up and charge whatever they want. I want to buy from a local dealer, but when they are charging hundreds over msrp for both the mower and bagger, then compounded by high salestax (10%) it adds up very fast and makes it difficult to swallow. Talking just shy of of $8k for a 400S and bagger out the door. Sort of stuck unless I want to travel 100miles one way, and I very well might as it will save me a solid grand buying from that dealer farther away.

Ouch, sorry to hear about that. A thousand will almost get you a little trailer & hitch.

Most dealers round town are all msrp, had to drive 25 miles to the other Ferris dealer that had a 400 on the floor. He really wanted me to buy something, today. Toro has the hd on sale for $300 off msrp, and most the dealers are adding another couple hundred off that. They must not be selling as well as anticipated.

markinohio said:

Ouch, sorry to hear about that. A thousand will almost get you a little trailer & hitch.

Most dealers round town are all msrp, had to drive 25 miles to the other Ferris dealer that had a 400 on the floor. He really wanted me to buy something, today. Toro has the hd on sale for $300 off msrp, and most the dealers are adding another couple hundred off that. They must not be selling as well as anticipated.

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I already have a big trailer to haul the unit home in so driving the 100miles to pickup is not an issue. :thumbsup: I would probably spend ~$70 in fuel to save $1000, def worth it. Even that shop though is over msrp for the 400S. So only save salestax on the unit itself which makes it not worth the drive. Pretty much got wife convinced to give it a go without the bagger for now, so just pick it up local. I will also be talking to the dealer about the bagger as I have a feeling he might have quoted the wrong bagger since everyone else I have found is <$2k for it.

Hi.
After much study, I purchased a SNAPPER 360Z. Yes I know these are the smaller residential models, but one of them has nice features for your $ budgets.... Four models available, but the largest is the 360Z 25/52.
25hp Briggs Professional with 10 gauge 52” fab deck. This is only model with ZT2800s. The smaller models have EZTs,
12 gauge decks. This model came standard with the easy removal cargo bed. Larger 20x10 rear wheels. MSRP is $3699. I drove 2.5 hous over to Orange,Tx. where a dealer quoted me $2999 + 8%tax ($3239 out the door).
This thing is very strong and well made. Very comparable in quality to my brother SnapperPro S150. I would have loved a Kawasaki but not available on this model.... This 25hp Briggs is very strong though.
The Local dealer here wanted $900 more. I figured the drive was WELL worth $900.

Just my two cents.
Eric in Louisiana

lamrith said:

I already have a big trailer to haul the unit home in so driving the 100miles to pickup is not an issue. :thumbsup: I would probably spend ~$70 in fuel to save $1000, def worth it. Even that shop though is over msrp for the 400S. So only save salestax on the unit itself which makes it not worth the drive. Pretty much got wife convinced to give it a go without the bagger for now, so just pick it up local. I will also be talking to the dealer about the bagger as I have a feeling he might have quoted the wrong bagger since everyone else I have found is <$2k for it.

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FYI. BRUNO POWER SPORTS
$4350 delivered. I don’t know if you considered out of state supplier. Looks to have a good reputation in the reviews, though.
2018 FERRIS 5901705

https://www.brunospowersports.com/i...=+3477335&sfc=0&ssc=0&scc=0&sps=0&lo=2&snai=0

That snapper looks like a pretty good value. Didn't see any of those here, and the cheapest unit with serviceable hydro-gears units I could get quoted was the CuB Cadet for $3599, then the next was Raptor SD for $3899. At that point, it was...well, for a couple hundred more I can get a suspension (Ferris), or another couple hundred the zt3100 drives (Kubota).... It was a slippery slope at that point.

But if I had started under 3k...it might have ended there.

Couldn't find published weigh for my Toro, so I call customer service.... 967lbs. At least it has bigger tires (sigh). That may have swayed my decision towards the Ferris.

Snapper machines are owned by Briggs. Except for Snappers commercial line.
That's why you will have a hard time finding a Kaw on a res unit.

Good price on that Toro Timecutter HD.

Updated: Kubota z122e, Ferris 400s, or Timecutter HD...

Update: Had the dealer trade the toro for the 400S. The Toro is a much larger frame, wheelbase, tires etc. and in my effort to mow around fence posts, the rear wheels kept rubbing the post. At one point the sidewall hit and cause the tire to spin. The Ferris was much easier and smoother to maneuver around the posts, mail box, fire hydrant, landscape rocks and all the other junk in my yard. Very glad my dealer let me trade the units. I will say the Toro gave a more even cut, smoother ride, and was a bit faster. Very impressed with the Toro, just wasn't the right mower for my yard. A 48" deck on the Toro just does not do it justice....IMHO.

Re: Updated: Kubota z122e, Ferris 400s, or Timecutter HD...

markinohio said:

Update: Had the dealer trade the toro for the 400S. The Toro is a much larger frame, wheelbase, tires etc. and in my effort to mow around fence posts, the rear wheels kept rubbing the post. At one point the sidewall hit and cause the tire to spin. The Ferris was much easier and smoother to maneuver around the posts, mail box, fire hydrant, landscape rocks and all the other junk in my yard. Very glad my dealer let me trade the units. I will say the Toro gave a more even cut, smoother ride, and was a bit faster. Very impressed with the Toro, just wasn't the right mower for my yard. A 48" deck on the Toro just does not do it justice....IMHO.

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Wow, the torro gave a smoother ride? Pretty amazing given how plush the 400S I rode was. Very cool your dealer let you trade out as well. Not many will do that that I found, kuddos to them, they deserve your business. Mine was/is charging $725 over MSRP for an already expensive Ferris bagger. Unfortunately they also are the Torro dealer, but did not have the HD in stock for me to look at before the sticker shock sent me away.

Thanks again for sharing your input on both.

Re: Updated: Kubota z122e, Ferris 400s, or Timecutter HD...

lamrith said:

Wow, the torro gave a smoother ride?

Click to expand...

For instance, I have about 5 dips in the yard where trees once where, stumps removed, and ground settled. The Toro went straight over them, leaving the grass completely level. The Ferris finds those spots, and I feel them. The Toro My Ride seat/platform does a better job reducing bounce and absorbing some vibration. Remember, the Toro is also 214lbs heavier, bigger wheels, wider & longer wheelbase..... I have read reducing tire psi can help, and haven't tried adjusting the preload on the shocks (prolly won't). But it's still a good ride, and all I have to do is slow down a little bit for it not to bother me.