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Kohler K161 carburetor
#1
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
I have an old Troybuilt tiller with a 7hp Kohler engine. The engine model number is K161T with a spec number 281271J. I've ordered a rebuild kit for the carb but was wondering if there are any low cost complete carburetors that would fit.
The parts sheet shows the carb to be a Kohler model 41 053 13. I've found inexpensive carbs that state they will work on the K161 engine but the do not list this number as compatible.
The parts sheet shows the carb to be a Kohler model 41 053 13. I've found inexpensive carbs that state they will work on the K161 engine but the do not list this number as compatible.
#3
L
Lonestar
I've rebuilt some chainsaw and weed eater carbs, but I'm not sure if I qualified to do the Kohler.
L
Lonestar
I'm sure you are correct, but why? It's pretty obvious that it's not very common to do it because there are not any off brands out there I have found yet.I wouldn’t recommend trying an off brand compatible carb on any Kohler cast engine.
I've rebuilt some chainsaw and weed eater carbs, but I'm not sure if I qualified to do the Kohler.
#4
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Just my experience working on small engines for 50+ years. Rebuilding a Kohler carb is about as easy as they come. This manual will help. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...al-K91-K141-K161-K181-K241-K301-K321-K341.pdf
#5
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
Thank you very much. That is a great manual for me to have, and I bet I can get through the carb rebuild using it as a reference. I wish I had just a little of your experience.
One more question please. In my OP I mentioned there is a spec number. Does this mean there were variations in the model K161 engine? If so small variations I assume?
One more question please. In my OP I mentioned there is a spec number. Does this mean there were variations in the model K161 engine? If so small variations I assume?
#6
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Yes, the spec number is used to identify any variations to the basic engine, which may be small or large. Ex. carb linkage, crankshaft type, etc.
#7
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
If you have time let me ask this. The tiller has been setting up for 20 years. Well kept in my garage. I always turned the tank petcock valve off after using, and let the engine run until all gas gone, and engine stopped.
Before tearing into the carb, do you feel I could spray some carb cleaner into the carb and give the engine a try? There may be a small chance it would start and then I could run something like Sea Foam through it to better clean the fuel system.
Would there be any harm in trying?
Before tearing into the carb, do you feel I could spray some carb cleaner into the carb and give the engine a try? There may be a small chance it would start and then I could run something like Sea Foam through it to better clean the fuel system.
Would there be any harm in trying?
#8
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
I’ve seen it done before with positive results, worth a try. There things I would do first. One, drain the oil may take a day depending on temps by you, and put in fresh. Two, squirt some oil directly into the cylinder. Three, pull the starter rope slowly, no plug, to disperse the oil in the cylinder. Do this about 25 times, slowly increasing in speed, to coat the internal parts with oil. Now you can add fuel and see what happens.
#9
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
Yes, I definitely was planning on changing the oil. I'm in TX so temps here are still in 90's. The Troy build manual calls for 30W SE class oil. The Kohler manual calls for 30W SC detergent type. Not sure what to look for??
I've already been putting Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinder for about a week. I pull the rope starter a few times everyday.
Of course I'm replacing the fuel lie, spark plug, and air filter. I removed the wheels, painted, and put new tires on.
Incidentally I bought the tiller new in 1980.
I've already been putting Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinder for about a week. I pull the rope starter a few times everyday.
Of course I'm replacing the fuel lie, spark plug, and air filter. I removed the wheels, painted, and put new tires on.
Incidentally I bought the tiller new in 1980.
#10
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Don’t worry about SC or SE, they have to do with which year car engine they can be used in.
#11
StarTech
StarTech
This will give an idea of how spec number there are for the K161.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...facturer/kohler/k-series-k91-662-kt17-21/k161
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...facturer/kohler/k-series-k91-662-kt17-21/k161
#12
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
OK. I think it is more of a detergent or non-detergent issue. I thought maybe those classes were different in that aspect. For some reason I thought non-detergent oils were recommended in engines without a filter. Again, I doubt it's an issue in this Kohler engine. Probably the least of my worries.
#13
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Small engine manufacturers did away with non-detergent oil many, many years ago. The only time I use non-detergent oil is in air compressors.
#14
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
This is the website I've been getting my parts numbers from. The internet is wonderful!This will give an idea of how spec number there are for the K161.
https://www.jackssmallengines.com/j...facturer/kohler/k-series-k91-662-kt17-21/k161
#15
B
bertsmobile1
Detergent oils are designed to hold the crud in solution so that the filter can extract it easily so it goes out of circulation which became very wide spread from the late 60's on cars and the 90's on mower engines that had an oil pump
Everything else you have seen , heard or think you know is the BS used by advertising companies to convince you that brand X oil is better than brand Y oil.
In a small stationary engine running at fixed speeds with no oil pump it makes next to no difference what type of oil you use and even less if it is changed at the end of the use season.
The only important bit is the viscosity number
Your problem stems from the use of the fuel stabilizer .
When they are needed, they are good & do a good job .
However like vitamin suppliments that is about 5 % of the people who use it.
The rest of the time they mostly do no harm .
BEcause CEO's & Directors get paid bonuses , Stabil. Marvel. WD40 etc spend a fortune convincing every one that their product is needed everywhere that they are not needed .
Remove your fuel tank clean it out & allow it to dry
Replace the fuel lines & clean the carb to remove all traces of the gunk you put in there .
For the purpose of testing, start the engine and see if you can keep it running by giving it SHORT shots of carb cleaner ( better ) or engine starting fluid ( not so good ) through the carb ( the engine will knock a little with every shot , don't worry about that ) .
Now if you can keep the engine running for a minute or two like this then the problem is with the fuel supply
If not then the problem is with the ignition or valves .
If you got a backfire then the ignition timing key in the flywheel could have cracked or even sheared off and the engine is now a poofteenth out of time
B
bertsmobile1
Non detergent oils were designed for use on engines that ran dry sumps with external oil tanks so the crud could settle out to the bottom lower than the pick up tube thus go out of circulation which was the norm way back pre WW IOK. I think it is more of a detergent or non-detergent issue. I thought maybe those classes were different in that aspect. For some reason I thought non-detergent oils were recommended in engines without a filter. Again, I doubt it's an issue in this Kohler engine. Probably the least of my worries.
Detergent oils are designed to hold the crud in solution so that the filter can extract it easily so it goes out of circulation which became very wide spread from the late 60's on cars and the 90's on mower engines that had an oil pump
Everything else you have seen , heard or think you know is the BS used by advertising companies to convince you that brand X oil is better than brand Y oil.
In a small stationary engine running at fixed speeds with no oil pump it makes next to no difference what type of oil you use and even less if it is changed at the end of the use season.
The only important bit is the viscosity number
Your problem stems from the use of the fuel stabilizer .
When they are needed, they are good & do a good job .
However like vitamin suppliments that is about 5 % of the people who use it.
The rest of the time they mostly do no harm .
BEcause CEO's & Directors get paid bonuses , Stabil. Marvel. WD40 etc spend a fortune convincing every one that their product is needed everywhere that they are not needed .
Remove your fuel tank clean it out & allow it to dry
Replace the fuel lines & clean the carb to remove all traces of the gunk you put in there .
For the purpose of testing, start the engine and see if you can keep it running by giving it SHORT shots of carb cleaner ( better ) or engine starting fluid ( not so good ) through the carb ( the engine will knock a little with every shot , don't worry about that ) .
Now if you can keep the engine running for a minute or two like this then the problem is with the fuel supply
If not then the problem is with the ignition or valves .
If you got a backfire then the ignition timing key in the flywheel could have cracked or even sheared off and the engine is now a poofteenth out of time
#16
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what you mean by "Your problem stems from the use of the fuel stabilizer". I did not know I had a problem at this stage?? I have not used a fuel stabilizer, as there has been no fuel in the tank or through the engine. If you are referring to the Marvel oil, that was to lube the cylinder walls, parts, etc as the engine has not been run in 20 years.Non detergent oils were designed for use on engines that ran dry sumps with external oil tanks so the crud could settle out to the bottom lower than the pick up tube thus go out of circulation which was the norm way back pre WW I
Detergent oils are designed to hold the crud in solution so that the filter can extract it easily so it goes out of circulation which became very wide spread from the late 60's on cars and the 90's on mower engines that had an oil pump
Everything else you have seen , heard or think you know is the BS used by advertising companies to convince you that brand X oil is better than brand Y oil.
In a small stationary engine running at fixed speeds with no oil pump it makes next to no difference what type of oil you use and even less if it is changed at the end of the use season.
The only important bit is the viscosity number
Your problem stems from the use of the fuel stabilizer .
When they are needed, they are good & do a good job .
However like vitamin suppliments that is about 5 % of the people who use it.
The rest of the time they mostly do no harm .
BEcause CEO's & Directors get paid bonuses , Stabil. Marvel. WD40 etc spend a fortune convincing every one that their product is needed everywhere that they are not needed .
Remove your fuel tank clean it out & allow it to dry
Replace the fuel lines & clean the carb to remove all traces of the gunk you put in there .
For the purpose of testing, start the engine and see if you can keep it running by giving it SHORT shots of carb cleaner ( better ) or engine starting fluid ( not so good ) through the carb ( the engine will knock a little with every shot , don't worry about that ) .
Now if you can keep the engine running for a minute or two like this then the problem is with the fuel supply
If not then the problem is with the ignition or valves .
If you got a backfire then the ignition timing key in the flywheel could have cracked or even sheared off and the engine is now a poofteenth out of time
#17
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Sorry you got the answer to a different postThanks for the info. I'm not sure what you mean by "Your problem stems from the use of the fuel stabilizer". I did not know I had a problem at this stage?? I have not used a fuel stabilizer, as there has been no fuel in the tank or through the engine. If you are referring to the Marvel oil, that was to lube the cylinder walls, parts, etc as the engine has not been run in 20 years.
#18
L
Lonestar
Now the bad news. I have no spark at the spark plug. Of course it's a new plug, gapped correctly. I then checked the points and cleaned the contacts with a fine, small file. I'm getting just a hint of an intermittent weak spark.
Not being good at trouble shooting at this point, next step would probably be to just replace points, condenser, spark plug wire. I think there is also a coil but I've not found it so far.
These ignition parts are not cheap, and the parts sheets that are available are not even showing original part numbers. I'm starting to question (with my limited ability) if I'm looking at a good investment here?
L
Lonestar
Well, just a quick update. I rebuilt the carb, and you were right, it was an easy job. It was pretty dirty but cleaned up nicely.Just my experience working on small engines for 50+ years. Rebuilding a Kohler carb is about as easy as they come. This manual will help. https://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Ko...al-K91-K141-K161-K181-K241-K301-K321-K341.pdf
Now the bad news. I have no spark at the spark plug. Of course it's a new plug, gapped correctly. I then checked the points and cleaned the contacts with a fine, small file. I'm getting just a hint of an intermittent weak spark.
Not being good at trouble shooting at this point, next step would probably be to just replace points, condenser, spark plug wire. I think there is also a coil but I've not found it so far.
These ignition parts are not cheap, and the parts sheets that are available are not even showing original part numbers. I'm starting to question (with my limited ability) if I'm looking at a good investment here?
#19
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
Because you say you have a weak spark, before throwing parts at this unit I would do the following. First I suggest you review the section of the manual I posted on how to troubleshoot the ignition system, then I would take some fine emory paper and clean the points one more time, files leave the point surface too rough. After doing so I like spraying the points and connections with a fast drying cleaner, like electronic contact cleaner or BrakeKleen, blow dry with compress air. Then I would reset the point gap at .018”, yes I know the manual says .020”. If this engine has an external coil, automotive style, the wires from the coil, one at a time, and clean and dry the connections. Retest for spark.
#20
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
OK will do. I've read the section in the manual, but will go back and review again.
I'm all about not spending any more than necessary, but I can get a third party points and condenser set on amazon for $20. Of course genuine Kohler parts are very expensive. For $20 I'm thinking I can eliminate the possibility that I've not got the contacts as clean and smooth as needed. I have no idea if the condenser at 40 years of age could be an issue.
The coil perplexes me. I only have access to about 8" of spark plug wire before it disappears into the engine cowling, so I really don't know what I'm dealing with. It's going to take some dissaembly work to get to the origination point of the wire, so I'd like to eliminate all other possibilities before tearing into it.
I'm all about not spending any more than necessary, but I can get a third party points and condenser set on amazon for $20. Of course genuine Kohler parts are very expensive. For $20 I'm thinking I can eliminate the possibility that I've not got the contacts as clean and smooth as needed. I have no idea if the condenser at 40 years of age could be an issue.
The coil perplexes me. I only have access to about 8" of spark plug wire before it disappears into the engine cowling, so I really don't know what I'm dealing with. It's going to take some dissaembly work to get to the origination point of the wire, so I'd like to eliminate all other possibilities before tearing into it.
#21
StarTech
StarTech
Points is PN 47 150 03.
Your K161 appears to a coil located on the stator under the flywheel and would be PN 47 755 20-S. You try the aftermarket one on Amazon or Ebay as the OEM is around $200.
Your K161 appears to a coil located on the stator under the flywheel and would be PN 47 755 20-S. You try the aftermarket one on Amazon or Ebay as the OEM is around $200.
#22
L
Lonestar
L
Lonestar
Yes, that's the parts number I'm showing on the points, with the condenser being 47 150 03-S. I just don't feel at this point considering the age of the engine and my knowledge, I can justify using original Kohler OEM parts. Who knows about other major issues such as valves, etc. I will say, the last time I ran the engine 20 years ago, it ran fine. I really goofed letting it set up.