You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
Kohler CV23S smoking
#1
C
Cfs
C
Cfs
I am looking at a neighbors John Deere L130 It has a Koehler CV23S 75569 engine a V Twin style and according to the tag on the blower housing in was made April 13 2004. What I found was the engine would not start l sprayed some starter fluid into the carb got it to run. I found it was very very low on oil and I added close to a quart and a half of oil. It seemed to run okay for a while then it began to spew smoke and oil was leaking from the muffler onto the muffler shield. The neighbor told me it had been leaking oil onto the floor of the shed he keeps it in for some time.
I am suspecting that there is a blown head gasket, I have replaced head gaskets on 17-19 hp Briggs engines before never a V Twin or any Kohler.
I guess what I really need is advice on the steps I should take to verify its a blown head gasket or identify what might be the issue. I have not pulled either head and that might be where I need to start? If the head gasket is bad on one side is it smart to replace both? Any advice appreciated
Spit
I am suspecting that there is a blown head gasket, I have replaced head gaskets on 17-19 hp Briggs engines before never a V Twin or any Kohler.
I guess what I really need is advice on the steps I should take to verify its a blown head gasket or identify what might be the issue. I have not pulled either head and that might be where I need to start? If the head gasket is bad on one side is it smart to replace both? Any advice appreciated
Spit
#2
R
Rivets
R
Rivets
This manual should help you out. I always change both. https://mymowerparts.com/pdf/Kohler...d-CV17-CV18-CV20-CV22-CV25-CV22-CV23-CV26.pdf
#3
C
Cfs
C
Cfs
I was looking at parts breakdown o -line and I see 2 different part numbers for cylinder heads 24 318 105 S and 24 318 113 S. One is I identified as #1 and one as #2. Is there a left and right hand head? I was unable to determine which is which. I only saw one Head gasket 24 841 02 S. So I assume this head gasket replaces either head. Anybody know the answers?I am looking at a neighbors John Deere L130 It has a Koehler CV23S 75569 engine a V Twin style and according to the tag on the blower housing in was made April 13 2004. What I found was the engine would not start l sprayed some starter fluid into the carb got it to run. I found it was very very low on oil and I added close to a quart and a half of oil. It seemed to run okay for a while then it began to spew smoke and oil was leaking from the muffler onto the muffler shield. The neighbor told me it had been leaking oil onto the floor of the shed he keeps it in for some time.
I am suspecting that there is a blown head gasket, I have replaced head gaskets on 17-19 hp Briggs engines before never a V Twin or any Kohler.
I guess what I really need is advice on the steps I should take to verify its a blown head gasket or identify what might be the issue. I have not pulled either head and that might be where I need to start? If the head gasket is bad on one side is it smart to replace both? Any advice appreciated
Spit
#4
ILENGINE
And the new head gaskets are the fire ring style which the 2004 engine may not have them installed at this time so wise to replace both. And don't overlook the valve covers could also be leaking. And keep in mind to be careful with removing the valve cover bolts because they like to break off, which you may not be able to avoid.
ILENGINE
There is a number one and number two head. The number 1 is always the cylinder closest to the flywheel. Also If I remember correctly the number 1 or 2 is molded into the head itself. Also the head gaskets will fit either size, but only one head gasket comes in the head gasket kit. So you have to have 2 kits to replace both head gaskets, but each gasket set comes with 2 intake gaskets each of the O ring style and the paper style, so 4 intake gaskets total, plus 2 exhaust gaskets.I was looking at parts breakdown o -line and I see 2 different part numbers for cylinder heads 24 318 105 S and 24 318 113 S. One is I identified as #1 and one as #2. Is there a left and right hand head? I was unable to determine which is which. I only saw one Head gasket 24 841 02 S. So I assume this head gasket replaces either head. Anybody know the answers?
And the new head gaskets are the fire ring style which the 2004 engine may not have them installed at this time so wise to replace both. And don't overlook the valve covers could also be leaking. And keep in mind to be careful with removing the valve cover bolts because they like to break off, which you may not be able to avoid.
#5
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
Head gaskets don't usually leak oil outside the engine. It is usually the pan gasket. Yes, that is the right head gasket, and they are the same works on either side. Number one head is the head on the left side of the engine standing facing the carb. and or muffler. You should lap the heads to level the heads. Get a thick piece of glass and take some 200-grit emery paper and lap the head go in a figure eight so you won't lap the head wedge shaped. I finish it with 400-grit emery paper. Yes, I know someone is going to say 600 grit 400 works for me. The best way I have found to check for a blown head gasket is to pull the plugs the one that is blown will be black and oily. And yes, replace them both.
#6
A
Auto Doc's
A
Auto Doc's
Hello
Kohler manuals online are pretty easy to find. Don't wild guess this job without printed repair data.
This sounds like an engine that has been run until it just would not run anymore. That is not a good thing. The dry connecting rods likely shut it down, then it cooled down enough so it would crank again.
A quart and a half low of oil basically means run empty of oil.
This is a 50/50 call if it can be saved for any length of time due to the current condition. My honest advice is look for a good used replacement engine or a new one.
I know you are trying to help a neighbor, but they need to pay for parts up front. 2 head gaskets, valve cover gaskets if needed along with oil and filter is a basic estimate.
Yes, the heads need to be leveled on a tempered glass surface with 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper to get them releveled properly.
Keep in mind that the piston rings may be worn out from all the low oil and neglected oil changes.
There are some that just cannot be saved when these conditions exist. I've had them blow a connecting rod through the block not long after trying to save them.
A well-maintained machine sudden shutdown is clearly different than one that has been nursed and neglected for years, and it repeatedly quit multiple times before it just would not run anymore.
Hello C.,I am looking at a neighbors John Deere L130 It has a Koehler CV23S 75569 engine a V Twin style and according to the tag on the blower housing in was made April 13 2004. What I found was the engine would not start l sprayed some starter fluid into the carb got it to run. I found it was very very low on oil and I added close to a quart and a half of oil. It seemed to run okay for a while then it began to spew smoke and oil was leaking from the muffler onto the muffler shield. The neighbor told me it had been leaking oil onto the floor of the shed he keeps it in for some time.
I am suspecting that there is a blown head gasket, I have replaced head gaskets on 17-19 hp Briggs engines before never a V Twin or any Kohler.
I guess what I really need is advice on the steps I should take to verify its a blown head gasket or identify what might be the issue. I have not pulled either head and that might be where I need to start? If the head gasket is bad on one side is it smart to replace both? Any advice appreciated
Spit
Kohler manuals online are pretty easy to find. Don't wild guess this job without printed repair data.
This sounds like an engine that has been run until it just would not run anymore. That is not a good thing. The dry connecting rods likely shut it down, then it cooled down enough so it would crank again.
A quart and a half low of oil basically means run empty of oil.
This is a 50/50 call if it can be saved for any length of time due to the current condition. My honest advice is look for a good used replacement engine or a new one.
I know you are trying to help a neighbor, but they need to pay for parts up front. 2 head gaskets, valve cover gaskets if needed along with oil and filter is a basic estimate.
Yes, the heads need to be leveled on a tempered glass surface with 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper to get them releveled properly.
Keep in mind that the piston rings may be worn out from all the low oil and neglected oil changes.
There are some that just cannot be saved when these conditions exist. I've had them blow a connecting rod through the block not long after trying to save them.
A well-maintained machine sudden shutdown is clearly different than one that has been nursed and neglected for years, and it repeatedly quit multiple times before it just would not run anymore.
#7
C
Cfs
C
Cfs
Rivets. Thank you for the manual! I am digging into right now Hopefully I will learn a thing or two, and avoid asking too many dumb questions
Spit
Spit
#8
S
slomo
S
slomo
Wow, isn't that a full oil change? Or was ran with no oil prior? Amazing.......it was very very low on oil and I added close to a quart and a half of oil.
#9
C
Cfs
C
Cfs
I am going to have a heart to heart talk with the neighbor, He bought this John Deere used a few years ago after he tied up the engine on a Husqvarna tractor with a Briggs on it also due to lack of oil and general maintenance. I would have thought he would have learned his lesson from that disaster.
He told me he had been adding oil, but when I told him it needed oil badly he didn't have any oil on site, i had to run home and grab a 5 quart bottle. I actually grabbed one that only had 16 oz in it and a full 5 qt,,,added the 16 oz and I thought I would see some oil on the dip stick and did not, added 32 oz from the new bottle in several pour and measures...and could see just a tiny bit on the end of the dip stick filled it till it it showed full. when he began to run it the white smoke of death spewed from it. First thing I did was drain and measure the oil and I got maybe 28-30 oz tops out of it, there was lots of oil on the muffler guard and lots of oil on the ground on the side of the number 1 head. Left side when standing in front of the carb,
I am going to show him the process of removing all that needs to be removed to get to the cylinder heads, the cost of the head gaskets and the potential for further major breakdowns based on the considerable abuse it has suffered and recommend that he cut his losses. As much as I like to fix something that is a new to me process, this sounds like throwing good money after bad,
Thanks to everyone for your input,
He told me he had been adding oil, but when I told him it needed oil badly he didn't have any oil on site, i had to run home and grab a 5 quart bottle. I actually grabbed one that only had 16 oz in it and a full 5 qt,,,added the 16 oz and I thought I would see some oil on the dip stick and did not, added 32 oz from the new bottle in several pour and measures...and could see just a tiny bit on the end of the dip stick filled it till it it showed full. when he began to run it the white smoke of death spewed from it. First thing I did was drain and measure the oil and I got maybe 28-30 oz tops out of it, there was lots of oil on the muffler guard and lots of oil on the ground on the side of the number 1 head. Left side when standing in front of the carb,
I am going to show him the process of removing all that needs to be removed to get to the cylinder heads, the cost of the head gaskets and the potential for further major breakdowns based on the considerable abuse it has suffered and recommend that he cut his losses. As much as I like to fix something that is a new to me process, this sounds like throwing good money after bad,
Thanks to everyone for your input,
what I read on- line was 1.9 liters i.e. 2 quarts. I kept looking for oil on the dipstick as I was adding more and more oil and wasn’t seeing anything. I know new clean oil is hard to see on the dipstick sometimes so I was afraid I was not seeing it and was initially concerned that I was going to overfill it!Wow, isn't that a full oil change? Or was ran with no oil prior? Amazing.......
#10
A
Auto Doc's
A
Auto Doc's
Hello C.,
I agree with you, a good heart to heart talk is needed.
What is the overall condition of the rest of this mower?
I'm afraid if this engine continues to be ran, you will truly witness firsthand the meaning of "exploded view". A good used engine might be an economical solution instead of buying an overpriced new mower.
Here is one example on eBay:
I've had good luck with several eBay used engines, but I had to ask plenty of questions to verify from the seller they knew what they were talking about. If they avoid questions or cannot truly verify the running condition, they are a "flipper" trying to make a fast buck... Avoid these types. Also avoid motors that have been "shined up" to make them look pretty, that is a common trick some like to use.
A new replacement engine practically cost as much as a new mower these days.
If they still insist on having you fix it.... I recommend pulling the engine and doing a full teardown inspection to verify any excess internal wear damage that likely exists.
Get the parts money plus 30% up front before you even start. Because, if it blows up in a very short time, you don't want to be out of the parts money. This approach also verifies if they are actually serious about going forward with this project.
Sorry, I've even had my own neighbors try to stiff me before. We are in the 2020's and it is a sad time.
I agree with you, a good heart to heart talk is needed.
What is the overall condition of the rest of this mower?
I'm afraid if this engine continues to be ran, you will truly witness firsthand the meaning of "exploded view". A good used engine might be an economical solution instead of buying an overpriced new mower.
Here is one example on eBay:
I've had good luck with several eBay used engines, but I had to ask plenty of questions to verify from the seller they knew what they were talking about. If they avoid questions or cannot truly verify the running condition, they are a "flipper" trying to make a fast buck... Avoid these types. Also avoid motors that have been "shined up" to make them look pretty, that is a common trick some like to use.
A new replacement engine practically cost as much as a new mower these days.
If they still insist on having you fix it.... I recommend pulling the engine and doing a full teardown inspection to verify any excess internal wear damage that likely exists.
Get the parts money plus 30% up front before you even start. Because, if it blows up in a very short time, you don't want to be out of the parts money. This approach also verifies if they are actually serious about going forward with this project.
Sorry, I've even had my own neighbors try to stiff me before. We are in the 2020's and it is a sad time.
#11
S
slomo
S
slomo
Shame a perfectly good engine is now trash due to complete and total laziness. Rest of the mower is probably not far behind. Lucky this "had" hydraulic lifters. Was going to say the valves probably never been checked.
Maybe the guy thought he had a Briggs never change the oil engine on it???? LOL
Maybe the guy thought he had a Briggs never change the oil engine on it???? LOL
#12
C
Cfs
C
Cfs
I stopped at his house and shared the sad news with him. He took it well and said he has a line on another used JD for $400-$500. I told him that he’s 2 for 2 on killing tractors from lack of routine maintenance… not rocket science. I strongly suggested he do better on his new-used tractorShame a perfectly good engine is now trash due to complete and total laziness. Rest of the mower is probably not far behind. Lucky this "had" hydraulic lifters. Was going to say the valves probably never been checked.
Maybe the guy thought he had a Briggs never change the oil engine on it???? LOL
#14
H
hlw49
H
hlw49
If it is leaking at the head, it is usually the valve cover gasket.I am going to have a heart to heart talk with the neighbor, He bought this John Deere used a few years ago after he tied up the engine on a Husqvarna tractor with a Briggs on it also due to lack of oil and general maintenance. I would have thought he would have learned his lesson from that disaster.
He told me he had been adding oil, but when I told him it needed oil badly he didn't have any oil on site, i had to run home and grab a 5 quart bottle. I actually grabbed one that only had 16 oz in it and a full 5 qt,,,added the 16 oz and I thought I would see some oil on the dip stick and did not, added 32 oz from the new bottle in several pour and measures...and could see just a tiny bit on the end of the dip stick filled it till it it showed full. when he began to run it the white smoke of death spewed from it. First thing I did was drain and measure the oil and I got maybe 28-30 oz tops out of it, there was lots of oil on the muffler guard and lots of oil on the ground on the side of the number 1 head. Left side when standing in front of the carb,
I am going to show him the process of removing all that needs to be removed to get to the cylinder heads, the cost of the head gaskets and the potential for further major breakdowns based on the considerable abuse it has suffered and recommend that he cut his losses. As much as I like to fix something that is a new to me process, this sounds like throwing good money after bad,
Thanks to everyone for your input,
what I read on- line was 1.9 liters i.e. 2 quarts. I kept looking for oil on the dipstick as I was adding more and more oil and wasn’t seeing anything. I know new clean oil is hard to see on the dipstick sometimes so I was afraid I was not seeing it and was initially concerned that I was going to overfill it!