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I have the following mower:

Dixie Chopper X2000-50 (bought NEW in June, 1998)
Serial No.: 2729402687
Vin: 89-17146
Kohler CV20-65541
Model: CV20S Spec: 65541
Family #: SKH624U1G2RB Disp: 624 cc

The problem I'm having is that I have no spark at neither spark plug when engine cranks. (Multimeter showns that kill line is grounded.) Coils tested fine and even replaced the coils with new coils.

The part I can't identify is an electrical part: black cylinder that is held to a long bolt on the starter by way of a hose clamp as seen in photo (black cylinder is about 1" long by 3/8" in diameter) and has 2 black wires coming from it.
One black wire is spliced into the white wire (kill wire) on the Kohler engine harness (by the Blue splice connector shown within yellow circle) and the other black wire has a simple ground connection for a bolt to connect it to the engine.
I think this part has failed (0 ohms) and is what is grounding my kill circuit causing a NO SPARK condition, because it connects the kill wire to the engine ground.
If I disconnect the wire lead form this part to the ground, I have 75 ohms between ground and the kill wire, but when the wire is connected to ground, it is 0 ohms.
Currently, it shows 0 ohms when tested with multimeter and is grounding my kill wire (white wire) and stopping the spark from occurring even without the ignition switch connected to the harness.

Should I have more than 75 ohms between ground and the kill wire? (Is there another part likely adding to my lack of spark.)

Any help in identifying this part (shown in yellow circle on the photo) or helping with the lack of spark would be greatly appreciated.
Is this unknown part a large diode?
Does anyone have a part number?

Thanks,
Mark

It is a mercury tilt switch part number 40229-Z. It is supposed to shut off the engine in case of rollover. If working correctly there is mercury inside that if turned with the wired facing down makes contact with probes inside to complete the circuit. Should be no continuity between wires if the wires are facing up.

IL slight change to the Dixie Chopper part number as when I looked it up the "-Z" comes up but without it the 40229 does. But tnx for the part number as I add it to my database here.

Also there one other switch according to spec number involved and that is the oil pressure switch but they normal read zero resistance until cranking oil pressure trips it.

StarTech,
My manual states that an "Oil Sentry" Switch was optional for my mower. The only diagram of it (if present) shows it a few inches above the oil filter and has 1 connecting tab My Owner's manual states that if present, it would shut down engine or trigger a warning signal, depending on application of engine. However, the service manual for the Kohler CV20 states that this "oil sentry" only shuts down engines that are designed to be stationary (NOT mowers apparently) and that on mowers it can only be used to activate a "low oil" light. I don't have any lights or horns on my mower.

Is this information in my manuals about a possible "Oil Sentry" switch and how it operates Accurate?

I always make sure my oil level is right at full before I try starting the engine.

I will check again to see if such a switch is present.

Thank You All for the info on the tilt switch.
Mark

Yes tit is optional but worth mentioning just in case.

I kinda wish Hustler had wired the pressure switch here to shut down the Honda engine instead a warning light.

StarTech said:

IL slight change to the Dixie Chopper part number as when I looked it up the "-Z" comes up but without it the 40229 does. But tnx for the part number as I add it to my database here.

Also there one other switch according to spec number involved and that is the oil pressure switch but they normal read zero resistance until cranking oil pressure trips it.

Click to expand...

The parts manual in the back of the owners manual shows it with a -Z, but you know as well as me how companies like to change part numbers on a daily basis.

DC1998 said:

StarTech,
My manual states that an "Oil Sentry" Switch was optional for my mower. The only diagram of it (if present) shows it a few inches above the oil filter and has 1 connecting tab My Owner's manual states that if present, it would shut down engine or trigger a warning signal, depending on application of engine. However, the service manual for the Kohler CV20 states that this "oil sentry" only shuts down engines that are designed to be stationary (NOT mowers apparently) and that on mowers it can only be used to activate a "low oil" light. I don't have any lights or horns on my mower.

Is this information in my manuals about a possible "Oil Sentry" switch and how it operates Accurate?

I always make sure my oil level is right at full before I try starting the engine.

I will check again to see if such a switch is present.

Thank You All for the info on the tilt switch.
Mark

Click to expand...

If I remember correctly from the wiring schematic, even if the engine has the oil pressure switch the wiring harness for the mower doesn't have the pin in the connector for it. The Kohler harness uses 5 wires but the mower connector to that only has 4.

ILENGINE,

Thanks for such specific info on the mercury switch. When I reinstalled the cylinder after replacing the starter, I still had the cylinder vertical but I had the switch with the wires coming out of the bottom. So, the switch works when installed as you stated. It was my mistake.
I sure wish the wiring diagrams showed where the safety switches were located so I knew what they were and where they were located.

The additional issue I had, due to my dealer or Dixie Chopper was that when I bought the mower, I was told that my Kohler CV20 was just like the CV22 (NOT like the MV20). On page 16 of my Dixie Chopper manual, the simple wiring diagram for the CV 22 looks like my CV20 in that the white wire connects to the M terminal or #1 terminal, but that diagram doesn't show the connection to the battery or to the engine or the starter. So, I'm having to guess.

I wish I had a definite wiring diagram that I could count on for this mower.

Thanks again,
Mark

@DC1998 The CV18, CV20, and CV22 all used the same block. The difference between the CV18 and 20 was a throttle limiting screw on the carb that only allowed the throttle butterfly to open halfway. The difference between the 20 and 22 was the CV22 had spark advance ignition whereas the CV20 and CV18 are fixed timing.

ILENGINE said:

The parts manual in the back of the owners manual shows it with a -Z, but you know as well as me how companies like to change part numbers on a daily basis.

Click to expand...

That why I like to look the IPL and parts on the OEM website when v\ever available. Some parts have multitude of supersedes at times. I was just correcting to current part number.

ILENGINE said:

If I remember correctly from the wiring schematic, even if the engine has the oil pressure switch the wiring harness for the mower doesn't have the pin in the connector for it. The Kohler harness uses 5 wires but the mower connector to that only has 4.

Click to expand...

Very possible. Equipment OEMs don't alway follow through with every option provided as here they added an option of the roll over switch.

Update: I now have spark (using a spark tester), but now my battery is apparently too old to turn the engine over fast enough to start. I recharged it, but it started raining, so I sharpened the blades. I had the battery charger off only during the blade sharpening and just reconnecting the battery charger, it appears the battery lost power as the smart charged started re-conditioning the battery again. So, I'll get a new battery and make hopefully only 1 more update.

Question: Should I continue to use the spark plug gap (0.040") as my dealer recommended for my CV20? My dealer told me to use the spark plug gap for the CV22 for my CV20. It is one of the few (maybe only one) riding lawn mowers that has a recommended spark plug gap of 0.040 " (about 1 mm) instead of 0.025"or 0.030".

Over the last month, I initially had trouble with the starter, (had been getting worse for many years), so I changed the starter/solenoid when I could get the starter to start at all.. That worked fine after I installed it. When I couldn't get spark, one of my gas tanks (right one) apparently developed a hole where the main wire harness was routed.. My seat switch had been de-activated a few months after I got it as the engine was cutting off every time I hit a bump. Since I couldn't find any other switches (didn't know about the tilt switch) as it was not mentioned in the owner manual, I figured it had to be the coils, so I ordered 2, because the starter was working fine.. (In hindshight. I think it was just the mercury tilt switch that I had re-attached improperly after bolting on the starter-solenoid, that prevented my spark.).

Thanks again, especially for the added info on comparison between the CV20 and CV22.

Mark

I kinda about the 0.040" gap as the service manual has it at 0.030.

Sometime along the line the spark gap has been updated to .030, because at one time the gap was .040 which was odd, and I think most people tended to ignore anyway.

ILENGINE said:

Sometime along the line the spark gap has been updated to .030, because at one time the gap was .040 which was odd, and I think most people tended to ignore anyway.

Click to expand...

The service manual could always be wrong too. But as you said 0.040 does sound odd; unless, I working an automobile engine.

I just got kicked in the tuss by a 2015 JD repair manual that was updated a year later after I brought my copy, current manual was publish in 2020. It cost me $200 and a week delay while waited for the tool that didn't work. Now I got a tool that I probably never use and then I may need it tomorrow.

It is good that most my manuals are PDFs so I add readable notes about changes or about how something is done differently.

The owners manual and the service manual both show .030 for spark gap. But remember talking about the .040 used on command engines back when I went to the Kohler dealer school over 20 years ago. And it came up in several updates over the years. I did notice that the .030 in the OM and the SM are both highlighted which could indicate a change.

It was both my local dealer ( the guy who sold it to me and delivered it to me) and the Dixie Chopper Owner's manual (from 1997) that stated 0.040" for the CV22 (I have CV20), but like you, I have not seen this recommendation in any of the Kohler owner's manuals.

I thought I was home free, once I had spark.

Bad News!
I still can't start engine after getting spark (verified by using a spark tester on both cylinders on actual spark plugs). I verified it several times, because I couldn't believe the engine was not starting.
I also sprayed carb cleaner down throat of air intake past choke plate to try to get it started and it hasn't even gotten close to starting, not even for a millisecond.
(For many years, I have had to spray the carb cleaner to start the engine, if it hasn't been used for a few weeks and it has worked.)

I regapped the plugs (new Champion plugs) to 0.030" and still no start, regardless of whether spark testers are in place or not.)

I also checked the compression and have 160-165 psi in both cylinders. Obviously, my engine is cold as i have not been able to start it (last time was in early May, this year).. (Kohler manual states it should be 160 psi if the engine does not have ACR, automatic compression release).

Could I be having too much gas (making it less gas vapor)? (I did clean the carburetor by spraying carb cleaner in all of the ports I saw) I see a thin film of gas just before the carb (at in the bottom of the air cleaner) after attempting to start the engine.

When I have removed the plugs many times over the last few days, I don't notice them being wet at all. They are clean like new and dry.

The items that have been replaced over the last month:
starter/solenoid
gas filter
both coils (set using business card that measured at about 0.011") because I didn't get spark after orienting the mercury switch improperly (maybe I should put the original coils back in, because the spark may not be as strong????)
spark plugs (Champion RC12YC) now gapped to 0.030"

I have had this mower for 23 years (using 0.040") and it always started eventually if I used carb cleaner & battery charger/starter.

I'm very stumped.

My next thought is to either clean the carburetor and rebuild it with a rebuild kit (It is a Nikki carb) or get a new carburetor in order to make sure I don't have too much liquid gas.
Or maybe I should put the original coils back in. Maybe the new coils are not giving me a strong enough spark. Is that possible, even though I have verified that I do have spark??

Mark

Disconnect the gas line and drain the carburetor. Then try cranking and adding a little into carb throat. IF still it still don't start it might ignition timing issue so check the flywheel key. Just a couple thoughts.

StarTech,

I disconnected the fuel lines and tried to start it a few times to make sure I wasn't seeing any liquid as I saw before when everything was connected. I added some carb cleaner as I normally do to get the mower started (at least since 1999) and it never even came close to starting. I even waited to the next day (today) and still nothing. I used my battery and a car jumper/starter (100 A) and the engine was turning fast but there it never started.

So, I thought your idea about the timing of the spark is probably the issue. However, I removed the flywheel and the key looks (after I removed all of the dirt), brand new and it is 23 years old (see photo). There was lot of dirt around and so I cleaned it, rinsed it, and dried it all off. Tomorrow, I will try to put it back together and decrease the gap for the coils form 0.011" to 0.008". The spark plugs I put in look completely unaffected by all of my attempts to start the mower, so there has been absolutely nothing close to any combustion going on. I even checked the orientation of the magnet relative to coils when the piston was at TDC. The magnet has just passed the coil (see photo), meaning the spark took place a little before TDC, which seems correct. I checked both cylinders.

if lowering the gap of the present aftermarket coils doesn't work, I guess I'll try putting the original coils back in. I replaced them when I wasn't getting spark (due to me not realzing that the black cylinder was a tilt swith). Is it possible that the new aftermarket coils aren't putting out the spark magnitude needed even though I'm definitely see spark on both cylinders????
(I definitely see spark, so, it would seem like they are OK, but I don't know of much else to change. except another battery. I thought spark was like being pregnant. It's all or none.)

Is there anything I should do before putting the flywheel back in place?

If you need photos of anything to help me, please let me know.

Thank You for all of your advice up to this point.

Mark

have you tried flipping the coil over?

The 2 coils are opposite to one another as were the original coils, so that the spark plug lead is on the outer end of the coil (see photo of original coils).
To have the spark plug leads in same orientation, the kill tabs on the new coils are upside down, relative to that of the original coils, but if I were to flip the coils so that the kill tabs were in same orientation as the original coils, the spark plug leads would be farther away from the plugs and I'm not sure It could even connect them. I did consider that possibility but did not that as I thought the spark plug lead orientation was more important than the kill tab oreintation. Original coils had longer leads for the plugs so I could have easily done what you suggested. My older printed Kohler manual states that spark plug leads should be on the ends of the koils (as were my original, but the newer online Kohler manual does state that the kill leads should be on top for engines without the SAM module (My engine does not have the SAM module.)

The magnets on the flywheel easily hold up a screwdriver (I checked it as I did see someone asking if a screwdriver isn't held up, are the magnets still OK.)

Observations:
1. engine is cranking seemingly fast enough with help of charger/starter (plugged into AC in garage), so could the battery power still be suspect in starting engine?
2. I see spark plugs (with spark plug tester inline on both cylinders), so could spark still not be of proper magnitude.
3. When I had fuel connected to engine, I see the bottom of the air cleaner (near choke plate) with a film of liquid (gas) and I have always used carb cleaner (last 22 years on this mower) to add somthing combustable into engine to get engine to start after mower hasn't been used for a few weeks, so could fuel not be of sufficient magnitude to start engine? (or do I need actual starter fluid?)
4. compression test showed 160-165 psi in both cylinders (tested twice). Kohler manual states engine should have 160 psi as minimum, so am I slighlty deficient in compression for MY engine to actually start it?

What am I missing? (ability of engine to actually start, lol)

As someone said earlier in the thread, there is an Oil Switch (Oil Sentry) on this engine (I finally found it on the rear of the engine below the carb) and it is connected to the green wire in the harness, but the green wire from the harness never connects to anything, so it can't stop engine or energize a warning signal. Besides, I am getting spark.

Options:
1. Narrow the gap for the coils to 0.008" (I had it at 0.011") - My older printed Kohler manual states 0.008-0.012" (Newer online Kohler manuals state 0.011-0.013)
2. Get Brand New battery
3. Use actual Starter Fluid instead of carb cleaner when trying to start engine (even though carb cleaner has always worked for me in the past)
- Rebuild carb if Stater Fluid stars engine
4. If all of the above fail, replace the NEW aftermarket coilds with the original coils

Thanks,
Mark

ILENGINE said:

Sometime along the line the spark gap has been updated to .030, because at one time the gap was .040 which was odd, and I think most people tended to ignore anyway.

Click to expand...

StarTech said:

The service manual could always be wrong too. But as you said 0.040 does sound odd; unless, I working an automobile engine.

I just got kicked in the tuss by a 2015 JD repair manual that was updated a year later after I brought my copy, current manual was publish in 2020. It cost me $200 and a week delay while waited for the tool that didn't work. Now I got a tool that I probably never use and then I may need it tomorrow.

It is good that most my manuals are PDFs so I add readable notes about changes or about how something is done differently.

Click to expand...

Was looking at my old Champion plug book this morning references something else and happen to notice that some of the plugs listed for certain Kohler engines showed the .040 gap requirement.

I think I see the problem . You appear to have the wrongs coils. I got in hand the 24 584 45-s (superseded to 24 584 01-s CDI Fixed). The plug wire is on the lower left with the kill tab on top with a plug lead that is approximately 9". The ones you imaged have the coil wire on the lower left but also has the kill tab on the same side.

24 584 45-s (24 584 01-s)

ILENGINE,

Initially, my printed Dixie Chopper Owner's manual states 0.040" for spark plug gap and I have used that for the last 22 years and engine worked. I have regapped new plugs down to 0.030" over the last few weeks as recommeded earlier in this thread.




Star Tech,

You are correct in regard to the NEW coils I have (kill tab is on the same side as the plug lead). I noticed that when I first got the parts but you can see that often the part numbers are updated (changed) as time goes along and UPdated parts are sometimes different in construction. The new aftermarket starter that I got has 1 fewer teeth than the original starter (In only 1 place did I see that the new starter that I got actually is an Acceptable starter for my mower.) I had no idea initially that this aftermarket starter had fewer teeth. It engages smooths as if nothing was changed. It seems to operate just like the 10-tooth starter that I had initially when it was cranking the engine. The different outside left me with no place to install the black cylinder (tilt switch) and that's how it initially caused me NO SPARK condition.

There are NO part numbers of any kind on the new coils that I received, but see below on the part numbers I supposedly received.
The part number on the boxes of the NEW coils are CO41 (ab).
Plus, I am getting spark. How can you have spark and no combustion?? (I don't understand that fact if the spark is actually the problem. Please help me understand.)

Is it the difference in coil or that fact I don't have the kill tab closer to me on Cylinder #1 that is changing the quality of the spark to stop the engine from starting.
Do I need to flip the coil on #1 so that the kill tab is up? If so, how do I orient the coil on #2 (kill tab down?). The original coils were oriented opposite one another with regard to the kill tab. My printed Kohler manual states that the spark plug lead needs to be oriented to the outside (I'm interpreting that to mean away from the other cylinder,, toward the front of the engine, not just away from the flywheel). It does show the kill tab towards me on cylinder #1. So, I thought the spark plug lead orientation was more important.
I guess I will try to flip the coils If it is actually possible due to the length of the spark plug lead and see what happens.

I would like to confirm that my NEW coils simply won't work properly no matter how they are installed, so that I can return them.
If I tell the seller that I'm getting spark, you know what he will say: The coils work as promised.

My guess is that the original coils will work (as noted earlier I recognized no spark and that was apparenlty due to my improper orientation of the black cylinder that one of you identified as a tilt switch and it seems to operate properly.

Any help and explanations of why I have spark and no combustion would be greatly appreciated.
(I simply want to learn so I get my mower working and so I don't make future mistakes.)

Thanks,
Mark


I got these coils on eBay with the following assertions:

anything written in an ebay add cab be taken with a grain of salt
Note it says "fits" and not works with > ,
So if it bolted up to the block ,the plug lead can get to the plug & the kill wire hooks up then it "FITS"
Does not mean it will work.
When there are dozens of real mower parts suppliers like Jacks, PartsTree, Messicks , Pro parts direct, etc etc etc
Why O why do people insist on buying into the ebay fake or faulty parts lottery

Thank You.
I have had good experience for the most part and very quick service. The threat of negative feedback in a public setting counts for something.

Since I had spark, I thought I had a broken key (bad timing) like was suggested in this thread, so I ordered it before I took the flywheel off. I'm over 65 and don't quite have the motivation to work all night anymore. I got a genuine flywheel key on Saturday (July 2) at about 2 pm after only ordering it on after 10 pm on Wed. Jun. 30 (about 42 hours after ordering it at night). No, it was not promised by Saturday (It was suppose to arrive on Wednesday, June 7). Shipping for the parts as mentioned above were asking for $10 to ship this key and it was not expedited shipping. That sounds HIGH. I didn't pay for any expedited shipping. The parts came in plastic bags that had the typical Kohler packaging. Often ebay sellers for these type of parts ask for you model number and spec on the name plate to ensure the correct parts. I barely had the flywheel off the engine when the part arrived on Saturday.

How am I getting spark but no combustion?
(Can you really have spark and no explosion or is the spark plug test light the issue here? Can the light really light up if no spark? Any suggestions on style of test light?)

I just bought the regular gas about 1 (now about 2 weeks ago from the gas station I take my car. I have gotten gas in this for my mower for that last 22 years.

I'm on my way to replace the New coils with the original, since I'm near 100% the original coils were OK.
(remember, I did not orient the tilt switch after installing my starter motor and didn't know that until I still had no spark with the new coils.).

I'll update later today hopefully.

Thank You all for contributing.
Mark

FIRE, WORKS! (I guess a day late for the 4th of July.)

I cleaned up my old coils and put them in just like they were using the same business card I used to install the New coils and it started right up.
This is the first time I had any indication of combustion and it wasn't little with the old coils back in.

StarTech,

THANK YOU for pointing out that the kill tabs being on the same side on the new coils was a problem for orientation and for correct part. Sometimes the parts look very different and work fine, but without much experience it is hard to realize that it is a problem. I'm amazed that my starter has fewer teeth than the old one and it works smoothly. If I had know the # of teeth were different, I wouldn't have ordered it, no matter what the parts supplier said. That seems very odd.

Flipping the new coilds didn't make it work even though the kill tabs were in the recommended locations. Of course that put the spark plugs leads at their limit.
I'm glad I put the old coils back on. (I just lightly sanded off the rust of the old coils to ensure good contact to ground and proper gap between magnet and coil.)

I measured the ohms from the kill tab to ground for the old coils and it was 750-790 for the 2 old coils, whereas the New coils were at 149-150 ohms. Could that have bled off some of the spark energy lighting up my test light, but not really enough to make a spark in the combustion chamber????

Hopefully, I can get my money back if the seller sent me the correct coils for my engine. If he actually sent me the wrong part, I wouldn't mind having a spare set of coils.


bertsmobile1,
The ebay ad not only said fits my application but that it was also a replacement for the part number (updated one) shown by Kohler and various parts sites.
I apologize for the error in shipping time that I stated, it was not just under 2 days, it was just under 3 days (Jun. 30 to July 3 (Saturday).


Thank You All for your interest in helping. It made a difference.
Of course it is raining here now, so I can't use the mower.

Anyone know how to stop the rain for a few days?

Mark

I don't but if I was working the other man it never failed to rain the week I was on vacation. I even tried lever the state but it just followed me and stay dry at home until showed back up. Weird Now that I work for myself 6 days it seems to rain on my day off. Yard is currently a foot tall but I going to try mid week mowing this week at part of my yard.

The machine that makes the coils will make a number say 100 or so of bad ones while it is being set up then make 10,000 good ones till the wire runs out so the next 50 will be doubtful and so on.
This is standard for mass produced parts
They all get tested as they come off the end of the line and the best go into the bin for Kohler and get branded then put into boxes
The not quite as good ones go into another bin and get sold to knock off engine makers
The total dud ones get sold to a remanufacturer who tries to fix them then sells them into the parts stream
What he can't fix gets sold as scrap then seems to end up on ebay or amazon where the vendor has no legal liabilities.
People who sell scrap as good deliberately usually have multiple accounts so when people stop buying from "goodgoodpart" because of the negative feedback they buy the ones that are 50¢ dearer from "bestgoodparts" who is the same vendor and so on.
Now some might be good some might be bad , the vendor might know they are bad or just might be reselling from another supplier & have no idea because he is a surplus parts retailer and just makes an add according to what he is told but in most cases the adds are made by a third party professional add writer who cuts & pastes from other adds .

Despite the fact that every government authority keeps warning people that "if it looks too good to be true it most likely is not true" every year millions of people get ripped off because they are being too cheap and believe that is they did not get whatever they were looking for at the absolute cheapest price on the planet they are getting ripped off by big business profiteering at their expense.

These people come through my gate almost daily and after the first couple of years my sympathy for cheapskate idiots has evaporated
Most leave faulty product in hand grumbling under their breath but if they wand me to turn a sows ear into a silk purse they have to pay what it really costs + a reasonable profit .

I may only been this line of work for 12 yrs now but I definitely lern to leave those RipBay and fly by night Amazon third party dealers alone. The trouble with the parts and the wasted time are just not worth to me. Now that I finally got a couple good distributors (it 9 nine years to get here) I do get decent prices on parts.

Now this doesn't mean there are no good aftermarket dealers. Stens, Oregon, and Rotary are fairly good companies to deal with as they stand by their products. But if you find a price that looks too good to true it is warning sign to ran away as faster you can.