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It has been suggested to me to replace my old Cub Cadet with a Conquest....thoughts?
#1
T
three4re
T
three4re
Hi,
As can be seen on the Cub Cadet forum, I posted my recent dilemma in that my engine just went bad on my '72 Cub Cadet 129. This tractor has lasted me for 47 years and has still been running great until a connecting rod broke yesterday. A local dealer has suggested that (in his opinion anyway) it is not worth it to put a rebuilt engine in the Cub. I'm not certain of that. But, his other suggestion was to replace it with a Conquest, which he claims is a very good tractor. My Cub is all cast iron and steel...don't know about the Conquest. So, to help make this decision, I'm looking for any thoughts or input, especially since I know nothing about the newer Simplicities. My parents had a 1970s model for a number of years - don't recall what eventually happened to it, but I remember using it to mow their lawn. The name rang a bell as soon as the dealer mentioned it.
He told me a ballpark figure - with deck and snow plow - would be in the neighborhood of $5800. To put a new engine in the Cub, I'm looking at around $1k - $1200 or so, depending on how much work the job would entail. What makes the decision tough is that the rest of my tractor is ALSO as old as the engine, with the exception of several (actually quite a few) parts that have been replaced of late.
Thanks for any thoughts...
Keith
As can be seen on the Cub Cadet forum, I posted my recent dilemma in that my engine just went bad on my '72 Cub Cadet 129. This tractor has lasted me for 47 years and has still been running great until a connecting rod broke yesterday. A local dealer has suggested that (in his opinion anyway) it is not worth it to put a rebuilt engine in the Cub. I'm not certain of that. But, his other suggestion was to replace it with a Conquest, which he claims is a very good tractor. My Cub is all cast iron and steel...don't know about the Conquest. So, to help make this decision, I'm looking for any thoughts or input, especially since I know nothing about the newer Simplicities. My parents had a 1970s model for a number of years - don't recall what eventually happened to it, but I remember using it to mow their lawn. The name rang a bell as soon as the dealer mentioned it.
He told me a ballpark figure - with deck and snow plow - would be in the neighborhood of $5800. To put a new engine in the Cub, I'm looking at around $1k - $1200 or so, depending on how much work the job would entail. What makes the decision tough is that the rest of my tractor is ALSO as old as the engine, with the exception of several (actually quite a few) parts that have been replaced of late.
Thanks for any thoughts...
Keith
#2
cpurvis
cpurvis
If I was you, I'd fix the Cub.
The engine is easy to change. We put a 12 hp Kohler in our 109 after the 10 hp Kohler bit the dust.
Today's tractors are not built anything like the old CC's such as yours. I wish we'd kept ours.
The engine is easy to change. We put a 12 hp Kohler in our 109 after the 10 hp Kohler bit the dust.
Today's tractors are not built anything like the old CC's such as yours. I wish we'd kept ours.
#3
tom3
tom3
I agree with that, especially if you like the old mower. Most new riders -that are affordable - are just disposable machines. What engine do you actually have in the old Cub? And sometimes a broken rod doesn't completely destroy the old motor, new parts might be found NOS on ebay for very reasonable money.
#4
T
three4re
Wish I knew enough on how to do this work myself. Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards doing the rebuild, but would need to have a local repair outfit pick it up.
T
three4re
If I was you, I'd fix the Cub.
The engine is easy to change. We put a 12 hp Kohler in our 109 after the 10 hp Kohler bit the dust.
Today's tractors are not built anything like the old CC's such as yours. I wish we'd kept ours.
Wish I knew enough on how to do this work myself. Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards doing the rebuild, but would need to have a local repair outfit pick it up.
#5
T
three4re
My Cub 129 has a Kohler 301.
T
three4re
I agree with that, especially if you like the old mower. Most new riders -that are affordable - are just disposable machines. What engine do you actually have in the old Cub? And sometimes a broken rod doesn't completely destroy the old motor, new parts might be found NOS on ebay for very reasonable money.
My Cub 129 has a Kohler 301.
#6
T
three4re
I know a guy who is just finishing a rebuild on a 301 for around $700 (before shipping). I'd probably get it from him.
T
three4re
I agree with that, especially if you like the old mower. Most new riders -that are affordable - are just disposable machines. What engine do you actually have in the old Cub? And sometimes a broken rod doesn't completely destroy the old motor, new parts might be found NOS on ebay for very reasonable money.
I know a guy who is just finishing a rebuild on a 301 for around $700 (before shipping). I'd probably get it from him.
#7
T
three4re
Could you clarify this? Just out of curiosity...I looked in the Cub service manual to see the instructions for removing the engine. Can't believe how few there actually are...1) removal of fuel tank and panel extensions, coil/generator wire disconnections and generator removal, PTO linkage and removal, motor/generator belt removal, choke and throttle disconnections, and removal of engine mounting bolts (are there 4 in all?). That's all that's listed...and all very familiar to me with the exception of the mounting bolts.
What wonders me is that there is nothing stated about disconnecting anything in the rear of the engine. What about the driveshaft, etc. running into the trans? Can't imagine the engine separates from the rear without doing something. I suppose it's all moot anyway since I don't have a hoist to actually lift the engine out of the tractor. I see the weight is roughly 120 lbs on a K-301 (?) Someone on another forum told me the 301 is "easy" to lift out, so thought I'd read about it. Perhaps being a bit overconfident in saying this - but it really does look like something that I could do, had I the means to lift it out. I'm sure it's much harder in reality than just reading about it in the manual however! So if I had a new 'drop-in' engine AND the means to do it, I'd be more than willing to tackle it. Buying a hoist - even if ever using it twice - would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than having to send the tractor to a shop.
I'm still betting there's more to it than I'm reading, especially relative to whatever mechanical linkages there are between engine and trans.
T
three4re
If I was you, I'd fix the Cub.
The engine is easy to change. We put a 12 hp Kohler in our 109 after the 10 hp Kohler bit the dust.
Today's tractors are not built anything like the old CC's such as yours. I wish we'd kept ours.
Could you clarify this? Just out of curiosity...I looked in the Cub service manual to see the instructions for removing the engine. Can't believe how few there actually are...1) removal of fuel tank and panel extensions, coil/generator wire disconnections and generator removal, PTO linkage and removal, motor/generator belt removal, choke and throttle disconnections, and removal of engine mounting bolts (are there 4 in all?). That's all that's listed...and all very familiar to me with the exception of the mounting bolts.
What wonders me is that there is nothing stated about disconnecting anything in the rear of the engine. What about the driveshaft, etc. running into the trans? Can't imagine the engine separates from the rear without doing something. I suppose it's all moot anyway since I don't have a hoist to actually lift the engine out of the tractor. I see the weight is roughly 120 lbs on a K-301 (?) Someone on another forum told me the 301 is "easy" to lift out, so thought I'd read about it. Perhaps being a bit overconfident in saying this - but it really does look like something that I could do, had I the means to lift it out. I'm sure it's much harder in reality than just reading about it in the manual however! So if I had a new 'drop-in' engine AND the means to do it, I'd be more than willing to tackle it. Buying a hoist - even if ever using it twice - would probably be a heck of a lot cheaper than having to send the tractor to a shop.
I'm still betting there's more to it than I'm reading, especially relative to whatever mechanical linkages there are between engine and trans.
#8
cpurvis
cpurvis
IIRC, it has something similar to a Lovejoy coupling between the flywheel and transmission input shaft--they just slide apart.
It's been a LONG time since I swapped out that engine but I know I had no hoist. Just muscled the thing out of there, not knowing what it weighed. You can make it lighter by taking off as much as possible, such as the starter/generator, head, carb/intake, exhaust, etc. Might have removed the hood and grill, too, just to gain easier access.
It's been a LONG time since I swapped out that engine but I know I had no hoist. Just muscled the thing out of there, not knowing what it weighed. You can make it lighter by taking off as much as possible, such as the starter/generator, head, carb/intake, exhaust, etc. Might have removed the hood and grill, too, just to gain easier access.
#9
T
three4re
Without a hoist? WOW! A guy on another forum just said the same thing to me. What about as you're removing the mounting bolts on the bottom? Won't the engine fall to the floor if it's not supported either from above or below? As to the flywheel / trans coupling, it looks like there are 4 bolts connecting the shaft, so not quite certain. I'm sure I can find it in the manual - probably under the section that covers separating the tractor.
Thanks...this all sounds like something that is doable, since I've worked around this engine for so many years and had all the stuff off that needs to come off as mentioned in the instructions - just never actually looked all around the bottom of the engine, etc. to see how it actually attaches to the frame.
T
three4re
IIRC, it has something similar to a Lovejoy coupling between the flywheel and transmission input shaft--they just slide apart.
It's been a LONG time since I swapped out that engine but I know I had no hoist. Just muscled the thing out of there, not knowing what it weighed. You can make it lighter by taking off as much as possible, such as the starter/generator, head, carb/intake, exhaust, etc. Might have removed the hood and grill, too, just to gain easier access.
Without a hoist? WOW! A guy on another forum just said the same thing to me. What about as you're removing the mounting bolts on the bottom? Won't the engine fall to the floor if it's not supported either from above or below? As to the flywheel / trans coupling, it looks like there are 4 bolts connecting the shaft, so not quite certain. I'm sure I can find it in the manual - probably under the section that covers separating the tractor.
Thanks...this all sounds like something that is doable, since I've worked around this engine for so many years and had all the stuff off that needs to come off as mentioned in the instructions - just never actually looked all around the bottom of the engine, etc. to see how it actually attaches to the frame.
#10
T
three4re
T
three4re
So yesterday I visited my local dealer who sells the Simplicities - I looked at the Conquest, which is the model the guy suggests for replacing the Cub. It certainly looks nice enough, but what came to mind was what my IH parts supplier told me which is that he always found Simplicities hard to work on. In looking around the tractor, it looks a bit complicated and cluttered (though undoubtedly any new tractor will look complicated compared to this very basic Cub!). He is quoting me $6699 for the tractor (with the 52-inch deck), and then an additional $1930 for the snow plow set-up. Apparently there is some sort of "sub frame" (as he referred to it) that has to be installed in order to attach the plow? Can anyone here give me more info on that? I didn't think to ask to see a plow but need to do that. And, although the one mechanic there detached the deck for me to see, what remains uncertain in my mind is the relative ease (or not) of being able to take off the blades to sharpen. AND...of course, the real biggie is....if I shell out the $8600 for all this...how long is the Conquest going to last? I really need to make this decision soon since otherwise I'll be paying a guy to mow my lawn the rest of the season.
Any additional thoughts from those who own Simplicities (and especially a Conquest) would be greatly appreciated. Some considerations besides just putting a rebuilt K-301 in the Cub: the deck is definitely close to being worn-out (a few holes in it though no sign of any rust on the outside), bearings on the deck definitely worn also since there is some pretty good amount of play on the center spindle. Blades certainly due for replacing. Transmission has had a (very slow) leak for years (though I'm told the transmissions and hydro pumps on these things hardly ever wear out). Left front wheel eats through bearings every few weeks/months and so really should get a new rim. And then, of course, the entire rest of the tractor is also 47 years old. I KNOW the quality of the Cub and so in that regard I lean towards putting an engine in it, but the unknown in the case of EITHER tractor is how long it'll hold up.
Any additional thoughts from those who own Simplicities (and especially a Conquest) would be greatly appreciated. Some considerations besides just putting a rebuilt K-301 in the Cub: the deck is definitely close to being worn-out (a few holes in it though no sign of any rust on the outside), bearings on the deck definitely worn also since there is some pretty good amount of play on the center spindle. Blades certainly due for replacing. Transmission has had a (very slow) leak for years (though I'm told the transmissions and hydro pumps on these things hardly ever wear out). Left front wheel eats through bearings every few weeks/months and so really should get a new rim. And then, of course, the entire rest of the tractor is also 47 years old. I KNOW the quality of the Cub and so in that regard I lean towards putting an engine in it, but the unknown in the case of EITHER tractor is how long it'll hold up.
#11
B
bertsmobile1
Please at least check a parts dook before posting drivel.
Ride on engines sit on top of the deck and are bolted down from underneath.
If you had ever actually seen an engine sitting on the flloor it would be abundantly obvious how they mount.
B
bertsmobile1
Without a hoist? WOW! A guy on another forum just said the same thing to me. What about as you're removing the mounting bolts on the bottom? Won't the engine fall to the floor if it's not supported either from above or below? As to the flywheel / trans coupling, it looks like there are 4 bolts connecting the shaft, so not quite certain. I'm sure I can find it in the manual - probably under the section that covers separating the tractor.
Thanks...this all sounds like something that is doable, since I've worked around this engine for so many years and had all the stuff off that needs to come off as mentioned in the instructions - just never actually looked all around the bottom of the engine, etc. to see how it actually attaches to the frame.
Please at least check a parts dook before posting drivel.
Ride on engines sit on top of the deck and are bolted down from underneath.
If you had ever actually seen an engine sitting on the flloor it would be abundantly obvious how they mount.
#12
T
three4re
Seriously? I didn't realize one had to already be an expert on all things mechanical before posting here. I have never had one of these engines out, knew absolutely nothing about HOW they come in or out prior to discussing all this recently, so...how about a 'fair crack of the whip'?
T
three4re
Please at least check a parts dook before posting drivel.
Ride on engines sit on top of the deck and are bolted down from underneath.
If you had ever actually seen an engine sitting on the flloor it would be abundantly obvious how they mount.
Seriously? I didn't realize one had to already be an expert on all things mechanical before posting here. I have never had one of these engines out, knew absolutely nothing about HOW they come in or out prior to discussing all this recently, so...how about a 'fair crack of the whip'?
#13
T
three4re
Except that I haven't...so hopefully that will, at least in some small way, vindicate my 'drivel'.
T
three4re
Please at least check a parts dook before posting drivel.
Ride on engines sit on top of the deck and are bolted down from underneath.
If you had ever actually seen an engine sitting on the flloor it would be abundantly obvious how they mount.
Except that I haven't...so hopefully that will, at least in some small way, vindicate my 'drivel'.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
I am not trying to be an A'hole or even to deride you or your opinions.
This is an open public forum and everyone's opinions are welcomed.
I am sure CPURVIS fees duely complimented by your admiration of his feat.
And had you left it there there would have been no reason for any further comment.
however as you have done, many others come here looking for answers and they expect to see things that are correct.
Thus a statement that the engine can fall on the ground needs to be corrected.
If not for the benefit of you then for the benefit of others who will read this thread in the future.
Now in both this thread and the similar one you are running in the Cub Cadet sub section you claim to had this mower for 47 ears and you have done nearly all of the work on it .
Thus by now you should have noticed the engine sitting on the floor with the ends of the bolts poking up through the engine mounting plates.
When you first posted your post was taken as being genuine, as most are, however the longer it runs the more suspect it appears to become.
The 129's run a single cylinder horizontal crank engine that slides right off the mower floor the single drive shaft that goes back to the tranny sis clearly visible and you should have seen it because over the 47 years you have owned it you should have been greasing the universal joint or by now it will have packed it in.
\So you should be well aware that there is nothing connected to the engine but the drive shaft at the back , the PTO pulley at the front and the engine control wires.
I find it a touch too hard to believe that you are still running the original PTO belts.
Now we do get a few poor souls with nothing better to do with their time but come on here with pretend problems either because they are lonely or they get their jollies by trying to fool good natured people who try to help others.
The longer these two thread runs the more I feel you are the latter.
Thus my time of attempting to offer useful advice is over, however I will step in to correct things which are factually wrong because it is very important that specialty forums like this one spread correct information.
B
bertsmobile1
Seriously? I didn't realize one had to already be an expert on all things mechanical before posting here. I have never had one of these engines out, knew absolutely nothing about HOW they come in or out prior to discussing all this recently, so...how about a 'fair crack of the whip'?
I am not trying to be an A'hole or even to deride you or your opinions.
This is an open public forum and everyone's opinions are welcomed.
I am sure CPURVIS fees duely complimented by your admiration of his feat.
And had you left it there there would have been no reason for any further comment.
however as you have done, many others come here looking for answers and they expect to see things that are correct.
Thus a statement that the engine can fall on the ground needs to be corrected.
If not for the benefit of you then for the benefit of others who will read this thread in the future.
Now in both this thread and the similar one you are running in the Cub Cadet sub section you claim to had this mower for 47 ears and you have done nearly all of the work on it .
Thus by now you should have noticed the engine sitting on the floor with the ends of the bolts poking up through the engine mounting plates.
When you first posted your post was taken as being genuine, as most are, however the longer it runs the more suspect it appears to become.
The 129's run a single cylinder horizontal crank engine that slides right off the mower floor the single drive shaft that goes back to the tranny sis clearly visible and you should have seen it because over the 47 years you have owned it you should have been greasing the universal joint or by now it will have packed it in.
\So you should be well aware that there is nothing connected to the engine but the drive shaft at the back , the PTO pulley at the front and the engine control wires.
I find it a touch too hard to believe that you are still running the original PTO belts.
Now we do get a few poor souls with nothing better to do with their time but come on here with pretend problems either because they are lonely or they get their jollies by trying to fool good natured people who try to help others.
The longer these two thread runs the more I feel you are the latter.
Thus my time of attempting to offer useful advice is over, however I will step in to correct things which are factually wrong because it is very important that specialty forums like this one spread correct information.
#15
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Three I would repower your mower..... 2 reasons it lasted you that long and a newer mower costs way more cash for a cheaper built piece of crap.........
If your dealer is wanting you to spend almost 10 grand for what you already posted then go ahead and buy a Kubota diesel tractor in the 25 HP range.......
That simple.......
Otherwise watch my buddy on this video series and see how he swaps a engine from a Simplicity OLD school lawn tractor...
You will have to skip the first part of the vid to 7:00 minutes though......
https://youtu.be/yJltCLZBknA
If your dealer is wanting you to spend almost 10 grand for what you already posted then go ahead and buy a Kubota diesel tractor in the 25 HP range.......
That simple.......
Otherwise watch my buddy on this video series and see how he swaps a engine from a Simplicity OLD school lawn tractor...
You will have to skip the first part of the vid to 7:00 minutes though......
https://youtu.be/yJltCLZBknA
#16
T
three4re
Your points are well taken - especially relative to making sure correct info is posted and incorrect info addressed so as to avoid confusion. Agreed. Rest assured, though, that I have no patience for trolls and am not here to do that. I am not here for "jollies" and making anything up. I have a Cub that threw the rod and and am trying to weigh out many different factors so that I can arrive at what I feel is the best decision - to either fix the old war horse or buy something new.
Of course I've changed belts, and have done the annual lubrication but quite honestly have never noticed the engine mounting bolts or even contemplated how the engine is attached to the frame. For someone like yourself, who does engine repair, there is so much that you take for granted. I spent my entire career teaching public school students to play band instruments, so perhaps an analogy....I would never have expected a kid to have observed another player and recognize the fact that as you add fingers on a clarinet, you are lengthening the air column thereby producing lower tones. A kid who has never actually played the instrument is unlikely to arrive at that sort of deduction. So, in turn, I would never assume that, once I start teaching him, he will know that lower notes must involve the use of more fingers. So, yeah, I've done a fair amount of work around the tractor but basically nothing having to do with the engine short of adding oil to it, cleaning the screen everytime I mow, taking apart the PTO, carb, other components, etc. But as to having thought about how the engine attaches to the tractor...not at all. Making intuitive leaps about all things mechanical is not something that comes naturally to me. I'm sorry, but I've been derided on forums similar to this one before simply because I don't have the knowledge that others do, and so have gotten a bit weary of it. Hopefully that does not sound unreasonable. I have posted on more than one section of the forum to hopefully maximize responses. I figured that only posting on the Cub side will probably elicit mostly responses in favor of doing the rebuild. Rest assured I am on MANY different forums at this point, not just this one.
Regardless, let's please not continue this. You can feel more than free to not post additional replies to my thread. I, also, promise not to respond any further to yours. No offense taken, and hopefully none given.
Cheers,
Keith
T
three4re
I am not trying to be an A'hole or even to deride you or your opinions.
This is an open public forum and everyone's opinions are welcomed.
I am sure CPURVIS fees duely complimented by your admiration of his feat.
And had you left it there there would have been no reason for any further comment.
however as you have done, many others come here looking for answers and they expect to see things that are correct.
Thus a statement that the engine can fall on the ground needs to be corrected.
If not for the benefit of you then for the benefit of others who will read this thread in the future.
Now in both this thread and the similar one you are running in the Cub Cadet sub section you claim to had this mower for 47 ears and you have done nearly all of the work on it .
Thus by now you should have noticed the engine sitting on the floor with the ends of the bolts poking up through the engine mounting plates.
When you first posted your post was taken as being genuine, as most are, however the longer it runs the more suspect it appears to become.
The 129's run a single cylinder horizontal crank engine that slides right off the mower floor the single drive shaft that goes back to the tranny sis clearly visible and you should have seen it because over the 47 years you have owned it you should have been greasing the universal joint or by now it will have packed it in.
\So you should be well aware that there is nothing connected to the engine but the drive shaft at the back , the PTO pulley at the front and the engine control wires.
I find it a touch too hard to believe that you are still running the original PTO belts.
Now we do get a few poor souls with nothing better to do with their time but come on here with pretend problems either because they are lonely or they get their jollies by trying to fool good natured people who try to help others.
The longer these two thread runs the more I feel you are the latter.
Thus my time of attempting to offer useful advice is over, however I will step in to correct things which are factually wrong because it is very important that specialty forums like this one spread correct information.
Your points are well taken - especially relative to making sure correct info is posted and incorrect info addressed so as to avoid confusion. Agreed. Rest assured, though, that I have no patience for trolls and am not here to do that. I am not here for "jollies" and making anything up. I have a Cub that threw the rod and and am trying to weigh out many different factors so that I can arrive at what I feel is the best decision - to either fix the old war horse or buy something new.
Of course I've changed belts, and have done the annual lubrication but quite honestly have never noticed the engine mounting bolts or even contemplated how the engine is attached to the frame. For someone like yourself, who does engine repair, there is so much that you take for granted. I spent my entire career teaching public school students to play band instruments, so perhaps an analogy....I would never have expected a kid to have observed another player and recognize the fact that as you add fingers on a clarinet, you are lengthening the air column thereby producing lower tones. A kid who has never actually played the instrument is unlikely to arrive at that sort of deduction. So, in turn, I would never assume that, once I start teaching him, he will know that lower notes must involve the use of more fingers. So, yeah, I've done a fair amount of work around the tractor but basically nothing having to do with the engine short of adding oil to it, cleaning the screen everytime I mow, taking apart the PTO, carb, other components, etc. But as to having thought about how the engine attaches to the tractor...not at all. Making intuitive leaps about all things mechanical is not something that comes naturally to me. I'm sorry, but I've been derided on forums similar to this one before simply because I don't have the knowledge that others do, and so have gotten a bit weary of it. Hopefully that does not sound unreasonable. I have posted on more than one section of the forum to hopefully maximize responses. I figured that only posting on the Cub side will probably elicit mostly responses in favor of doing the rebuild. Rest assured I am on MANY different forums at this point, not just this one.
Regardless, let's please not continue this. You can feel more than free to not post additional replies to my thread. I, also, promise not to respond any further to yours. No offense taken, and hopefully none given.
Cheers,
Keith
#17
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Well we have come to an understanding so all is well.
Having had some serious thoughts about your problem there is something I had not taken into account.
If you go for a replacement engine it will need to have the same shaft diameter and more important the height of the pro shaft from the deck will need to remain the same or you will be in for a few problems with the front PTO.
The back is not so important as the shaft has some wiggle room.
Thus you really should be looking at an engine with an electric PTO.
That will get rid of all that clutch lever system so make the mower easier to use but clutches are expensive and bought as a seperate item.
I have not checked the mounting height of the output shaft but most of the late model engines are higher.
Having had some serious thoughts about your problem there is something I had not taken into account.
If you go for a replacement engine it will need to have the same shaft diameter and more important the height of the pro shaft from the deck will need to remain the same or you will be in for a few problems with the front PTO.
The back is not so important as the shaft has some wiggle room.
Thus you really should be looking at an engine with an electric PTO.
That will get rid of all that clutch lever system so make the mower easier to use but clutches are expensive and bought as a seperate item.
I have not checked the mounting height of the output shaft but most of the late model engines are higher.
#18
T
three4re
Berts...you're a bit over my head with this but I greatly appreciate it! I will review what you've mentioned with the guy I've been corresponding with from whom I am likely to purchase the engine. He actually offered two options - the typical short block that he said most people get, but also - knowing my lack of (at least natural) mechanical inclinations and in the interest of keeping the job as uncomplicated as possible AND hopefully avoiding sending the Cub to a shop for the removal / install - he said he could work up a complete drop-in, already tuned engine - would come with everything except the S/G - figuring that would be easier for me.
Let me also ask you this, since you'll undoubtedly have something of value in reply - given the choice of putting in the rebuilt K-301 versus buying, say, one of the new Kubotas that uses the 20 HP 2-cylinder Kohler - which would you feel is the better way to go? The guys on the Cub forum (and even others) have told me so often that the old K-series were virtually bullet-proof (so-to-speak, of course). Then, there is the Simplicity I looked at yesterday that has the Briggs & Stratton V-twin. Some people like these over the Kohlers, some vice-versa. Any thoughts on that?
T
three4re
Well we have come to an understanding so all is well.
Having had some serious thoughts about your problem there is something I had not taken into account.
If you go for a replacement engine it will need to have the same shaft diameter and more important the height of the pro shaft from the deck will need to remain the same or you will be in for a few problems with the front PTO.
The back is not so important as the shaft has some wiggle room.
Thus you really should be looking at an engine with an electric PTO.
That will get rid of all that clutch lever system so make the mower easier to use but clutches are expensive and bought as a seperate item.
I have not checked the mounting height of the output shaft but most of the late model engines are higher.
Berts...you're a bit over my head with this but I greatly appreciate it! I will review what you've mentioned with the guy I've been corresponding with from whom I am likely to purchase the engine. He actually offered two options - the typical short block that he said most people get, but also - knowing my lack of (at least natural) mechanical inclinations and in the interest of keeping the job as uncomplicated as possible AND hopefully avoiding sending the Cub to a shop for the removal / install - he said he could work up a complete drop-in, already tuned engine - would come with everything except the S/G - figuring that would be easier for me.
Let me also ask you this, since you'll undoubtedly have something of value in reply - given the choice of putting in the rebuilt K-301 versus buying, say, one of the new Kubotas that uses the 20 HP 2-cylinder Kohler - which would you feel is the better way to go? The guys on the Cub forum (and even others) have told me so often that the old K-series were virtually bullet-proof (so-to-speak, of course). Then, there is the Simplicity I looked at yesterday that has the Briggs & Stratton V-twin. Some people like these over the Kohlers, some vice-versa. Any thoughts on that?
#19
T
three4re
Thanks...just so I understand you correctly....are you also including a new Simplicity Conquest in your reference to the "newer mowers" as being a "cheaper built piece of crap"?
You refer to an older Simplicity. My parents had one of those...used to mow their lawn with it back in the early 70s. I'll check out the video.
T
three4re
Three I would repower your mower..... 2 reasons it lasted you that long and a newer mower costs way more cash for a cheaper built piece of crap.........
If your dealer is wanting you to spend almost 10 grand for what you already posted then go ahead and buy a Kubota diesel tractor in the 25 HP range.......
That simple.......
Otherwise watch my buddy on this video series and see how he swaps a engine from a Simplicity OLD school lawn tractor...
You will have to skip the first part of the vid to 7:00 minutes though......
https://youtu.be/yJltCLZBknA
Thanks...just so I understand you correctly....are you also including a new Simplicity Conquest in your reference to the "newer mowers" as being a "cheaper built piece of crap"?
You refer to an older Simplicity. My parents had one of those...used to mow their lawn with it back in the early 70s. I'll check out the video.
#20
cpurvis
cpurvis
With as much discussion as has taken place over whether to keep or replace the Cub yet still unable to reach a decision, I would guess that you'll be second guessing whatever decision you make for years to come. You are suffering from what is known as 'analysis paralysis' i.e., afraid of making a mistake. If I had to guess your occupation, it would be engineer for the reason that I've seen so many engineers freeze up when making even the simplest decision when their own money was involved. (FWIW, I'm an engineer.)
You've been given reasons why you should keep the Cub. I've seen few if any reasons given as to why you should spend triple the money on a modern-day tractor with its modern day engine and systems. The Cub was built in a time when successive years showed improvements over the prior year's model. Sometime between then and now, that corporate business model was replaced with decades of cost cutting. If the Simplicity has not been a victim of this, by all means buy it.
You've heard the saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." In this case, the horse is standing at the water's edge: Please take a drink, or just flip a coin.
You've been given reasons why you should keep the Cub. I've seen few if any reasons given as to why you should spend triple the money on a modern-day tractor with its modern day engine and systems. The Cub was built in a time when successive years showed improvements over the prior year's model. Sometime between then and now, that corporate business model was replaced with decades of cost cutting. If the Simplicity has not been a victim of this, by all means buy it.
You've heard the saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." In this case, the horse is standing at the water's edge: Please take a drink, or just flip a coin.
#21
T
three4re
You're right...absolutely. Actually, I'm a retired elementary teacher...but interesting to hear about the engineer decision-freeze you refer to. No way to know if the Simplicity designs have fell victim to the cost cutting or not...can't imagine why they wouldn't have. Thanks for your thoughts. I know I need to make this decision soon.
T
three4re
With as much discussion as has taken place over whether to keep or replace the Cub yet still unable to reach a decision, I would guess that you'll be second guessing whatever decision you make for years to come. You are suffering from what is known as 'analysis paralysis' i.e., afraid of making a mistake. If I had to guess your occupation, it would be engineer for the reason that I've seen so many engineers freeze up when making even the simplest decision when their own money was involved. (FWIW, I'm an engineer.)
You've been given reasons why you should keep the Cub. I've seen few if any reasons given as to why you should spend triple the money on a modern-day tractor with its modern day engine and systems. The Cub was built in a time when successive years showed improvements over the prior year's model. Sometime between then and now, that corporate business model was replaced with decades of cost cutting. If the Simplicity has not been a victim of this, by all means buy it.
You've heard the saying, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." In this case, the horse is standing at the water's edge: Please take a drink, or just flip a coin.
You're right...absolutely. Actually, I'm a retired elementary teacher...but interesting to hear about the engineer decision-freeze you refer to. No way to know if the Simplicity designs have fell victim to the cost cutting or not...can't imagine why they wouldn't have. Thanks for your thoughts. I know I need to make this decision soon.
#22
J
jkraiza
J
jkraiza
Simplicity Conquest I just bought one. It replace my old Scott S2554 after 20 years of mowing, snow plower. The trans pump went on it.
Could I have fixed it? Sure but not worth it compair to the new mowers out there.
So looking at other brands that are out there. The Simplicty became my choice. I like the power blade deck hight, power steering, back up stay on button, mesh seat, now water can stay on it and cooler seating comfort, fuel injected motor, LED headlight , ETC.
After mowing today and my wife used it and said the power steering was worth the price by it self.
I like making my life go easyer as I get older, My Simplicity snow blower with power chut controls and heated grips was a winner,
I also have a Scag Turf tiger II and a JD 4066R. So I got myself covered on just about and job around the house that comes up.
Buy a new mower you will thank yourself. Simplicity Conquest may be the right mower for you. :thumbsup:
Could I have fixed it? Sure but not worth it compair to the new mowers out there.
So looking at other brands that are out there. The Simplicty became my choice. I like the power blade deck hight, power steering, back up stay on button, mesh seat, now water can stay on it and cooler seating comfort, fuel injected motor, LED headlight , ETC.
After mowing today and my wife used it and said the power steering was worth the price by it self.
I like making my life go easyer as I get older, My Simplicity snow blower with power chut controls and heated grips was a winner,
I also have a Scag Turf tiger II and a JD 4066R. So I got myself covered on just about and job around the house that comes up.
Buy a new mower you will thank yourself. Simplicity Conquest may be the right mower for you. :thumbsup:
#23
C
Canadave
Some of us are technopeasants who may be able to perform heart transplants or land on the moon or write books of the bible but are lost when it comes to
the ins and outs of lawn tractors so lighten up and get a life.
C
Canadave
Please at least check a parts dook before posting drivel.
Ride on engines sit on top of the deck and are bolted down from underneath.
If you had ever actually seen an engine sitting on the floor it would be abundantly obvious how they mount.
Some of us are technopeasants who may be able to perform heart transplants or land on the moon or write books of the bible but are lost when it comes to
the ins and outs of lawn tractors so lighten up and get a life.
#24
Boobala
Boobala
WOW !! THIS thread, is ALMOST as good as the the Ford - Kavanaugh battle !! .. :laughing:..:laughing:
#25
C
Canadave
I had a Conquest for 15 years and it was fantastic and any problems were very minor such as replacing a voltage regulator. About two weeks ago it actually caught fire and was totally destroyed which was a fluke. The engine was hunting which might have had a bearing on it. I've heard of similar stories since. It had a Vanguard engine which was excellent. I was going to replace it with another Conquest but everyone recommended I get a zero turn because they're fun and I cut 4 acres so I would save a lot of time so I ordered a Simplicity Champion XT. I hope I don't regret that decision. The Conquest no longer has the Vanguard unless you get a more expensive model. It now comes with a Briggs Commercial engine. I couldn't find anything on the net about it but a friend who worked for a company in Alberta sold a lot of them and he said they were excellent and he never had any problems with them. I actually ordered a John Deere X 380 on the condition that the deck would be easy to remove and re-install but that turned out to be a lie so I sent it back. Removing the deck on a Conquest is a piece of cake. I have no reservations about recommending a Conquest assuming they haven't reduced the quality in any way.
C
Canadave
Hi,
As can be seen on the Cub Cadet forum, I posted my recent dilemma in that my engine just went bad on my '72 Cub Cadet 129. This tractor has lasted me for 47 years and has still been running great until a connecting rod broke yesterday. A local dealer has suggested that (in his opinion anyway) it is not worth it to put a rebuilt engine in the Cub. I'm not certain of that. But, his other suggestion was to replace it with a Conquest, which he claims is a very good tractor. My Cub is all cast iron and steel...don't know about the Conquest. So, to help make this decision, I'm looking for any thoughts or input, especially since I know nothing about the newer Simplicities. My parents had a 1970s model for a number of years - don't recall what eventually happened to it, but I remember using it to mow their lawn. The name rang a bell as soon as the dealer mentioned it.
He told me a ballpark figure - with deck and snow plow - would be in the neighborhood of $5800. To put a new engine in the Cub, I'm looking at around $1k - $1200 or so, depending on how much work the job would entail. What makes the decision tough is that the rest of my tractor is ALSO as old as the engine, with the exception of several (actually quite a few) parts that have been replaced of late.
Thanks for any thoughts...
Keith
I had a Conquest for 15 years and it was fantastic and any problems were very minor such as replacing a voltage regulator. About two weeks ago it actually caught fire and was totally destroyed which was a fluke. The engine was hunting which might have had a bearing on it. I've heard of similar stories since. It had a Vanguard engine which was excellent. I was going to replace it with another Conquest but everyone recommended I get a zero turn because they're fun and I cut 4 acres so I would save a lot of time so I ordered a Simplicity Champion XT. I hope I don't regret that decision. The Conquest no longer has the Vanguard unless you get a more expensive model. It now comes with a Briggs Commercial engine. I couldn't find anything on the net about it but a friend who worked for a company in Alberta sold a lot of them and he said they were excellent and he never had any problems with them. I actually ordered a John Deere X 380 on the condition that the deck would be easy to remove and re-install but that turned out to be a lie so I sent it back. Removing the deck on a Conquest is a piece of cake. I have no reservations about recommending a Conquest assuming they haven't reduced the quality in any way.
#26
J
jp1961
J
jp1961
I had a Conquest for 15 years and it was fantastic and any problems were very minor such as replacing a voltage regulator. About two weeks ago it actually caught fire and was totally destroyed which was a fluke. The engine was hunting which might have had a bearing on it. I've heard of similar stories since.
Do the new ones come with a free Nomex suit??,,you don't park it inside your attached garage do you,,,LOL.
Talk about shake and bake (it's better than frying)!!
Regards
Jeff
#27
C
Canadave
C
Canadave
I had a Conquest for 15 years and it was fantastic and any problems were very minor such as replacing a voltage regulator. About two weeks ago it actually caught fire and was totally destroyed which was a fluke. The engine was hunting which might have had a bearing on it. I've heard of similar stories since.
Do the new ones come with a free Nomex suit??,,you don't park it inside your attached garage do you,,,LOL.
Talk about shake and bake (it's better than frying)!!
Regards
Jeff
Actually the tractor was outside when the mechanic came to fix it. He fixed the throttle problem and then HE put it in the garage planning to fix the hunting problem the next day. I came home after spending the day shopping in Kingston with my wife to discover that the tractor was burnt to the ground. Normally my tractor is always in the garage where I've always kept it for the past 15 years.
#28
B
bertsmobile1
People who do not know how to fix their mowers come here
for help from people who do know, this includes myself.
If people wanted wild guesses for clowns who have no idea what they are babbleing about then there is Face Book, that is what it is there for.
It is not difficult to check facts before making statements ( unless you are President Trumph ).
Or if you don't know or are not sure use the prefix , "I think" or "not quite sure" or "from memory" ( if you do not have time to check ).
A lot of people use this site as a refference resource so it is important that what is posted is as close to being correct as possible.
It is not uncommon for some one to revive a thread that is many years old because they have been searching for answers.
So it is not a case of lightening up, it is a case of printing FACTS .
B
bertsmobile1
Some of us are technopeasants who may be able to perform heart transplants or land on the moon or write books of the bible but are lost when it comes to
the ins and outs of lawn tractors so lighten up and get a life.
People who do not know how to fix their mowers come here
for help from people who do know, this includes myself.
If people wanted wild guesses for clowns who have no idea what they are babbleing about then there is Face Book, that is what it is there for.
It is not difficult to check facts before making statements ( unless you are President Trumph ).
Or if you don't know or are not sure use the prefix , "I think" or "not quite sure" or "from memory" ( if you do not have time to check ).
A lot of people use this site as a refference resource so it is important that what is posted is as close to being correct as possible.
It is not uncommon for some one to revive a thread that is many years old because they have been searching for answers.
So it is not a case of lightening up, it is a case of printing FACTS .