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Ok....been all over the place looking for a new mower. Consumer reports (and online reviews) seem to point to the the Hondas or the Toro Recycler/Super Recycler as THE mowers to buy (my top priority is reliability and mulching ability).

My issue is a I don't love the drive control on either.

Smart drive - thumbs get sore? run over a bump accidentally accelerate the mower or slow it down?

Personal Pace - have to push down to go faster or let up to go slower? Is that a good design?

Just wondering if you guys have any thoughts for me, especially if you've had an opportunity to use both. I've always had mowers that have one speed: "go".

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The other question is...do I need 190ccs of power or is 160cc sufficient?

With the Honda it is more comfortable to use the palms of your hands...not your thumbs. I am not thrilled with the Smart Drive or Personal Pace either, I like my Honda HRX217HYA that has different set speeds, but lot of them.

And I like the GCV190 engine (190cc) on my Honda a lot, but if you don't cut thick or tall grass you might not need it.

I have no experience with either one, but i've been told that they both are the kind of drive systems you have to try to see if you will like it or not. I would contact your local dealers to see if they will let you demo them. everyone that has used them usually seems split down the middle, half like them, half dont.

Thanks guys, I have looked at both in person. I'm not thrilled with either. I'm just not really able to find something else to consider, other than craftsman mowers which tend to get back reviews.

My priorities
* Longevity
* Excellent mulching (do not want to bag)
* 190cc preferred, though I guess I could do 160cc
...
...
* Features (blade stop, etc)

What else should I look at?

Have you considered a snapper ninja? snappers usually get pretty good mulching reviews, and although I havn't tried mulching with mine yet, I think it gives a much nicer cut than my silver series lawn boy. Have you considered buying something used? that would be a great way to get a honda with the hydrostatic drive for the same money or less than what your looking to spend on the two mowers you've been looking at.

or an older toro with the indestructible 3spd self propel

homestuff said:

Thanks guys, I have looked at both in person. I'm not thrilled with either. I'm just not really able to find something else to consider, other than craftsman mowers which tend to get back reviews.

My priorities
* Longevity
* Excellent mulching (do not want to bag)
* 190cc preferred, though I guess I could do 160cc
...
...
* Features (blade stop, etc)

What else should I look at?

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Since you were looking at Honda why don't you jump up a level and look at the HRX217HYA. It has the 190cc engine, is great at mulching, is fast, and has the blade stop.

Honda Lawn Mowers: HRX217HYA, HRX217K4HYA

I hadn't looked into a snapper. I will take a look.

Honda should make a simpler version (e.g. less features) of the HRX but keep the 190cc motor in it, would be a lot easier to make a decision.

The HRX217 is definitely a contender. The two issues with it are: 1) I'm not loving the price for a residential mower, and 2) I'm still a little bit wary of the "smart drive" things based on the reviews of people saying it's a pain to push that level down with your thumbs for an hour or 2 while you mow.

homestuff said:

The HRX217 is definitely a contender. The two issues with it are: 1) I'm not loving the price for a residential mower, and 2) I'm still a little bit wary of the "smart drive" things based on the reviews of people saying it's a pain to push that level down with your thumbs for an hour or 2 while you mow.

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But the HRX is very durable! Technically it's classified as a premium residential mower. And yeah you either like or don't like the Smart Drive, but the HYA doesn't have that....:thumbsup:

homestuff said:

I hadn't looked into a snapper. I will take a look.

Honda should make a simpler version (e.g. less features) of the HRX but keep the 190cc motor in it, would be a lot easier to make a decision.

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If your looking for the 190cc engine and you want the Honda try looking at the Husqvarna HU800 AWD. There are a lot of different mowers available with the 190cc Honda engine with the simple drive features. Personally I think the Honda engines now are way over rated.

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/lawn-mowers/hu800awd/

THanks for the info. I didn't realize the HYA version didn't have the paddle control, which is ideal...it's also even more expensive.

That husqvarna I've looked at but the reviews are so-so and the mulching is not great.

Have sold personal pace Toros since they came out, to 6'-4" teenagers and 5'-4" grandmothers. Have never had one returned because they didn't like the drive system. You don't have to push harder to make it go faster, just start walking faster and the speed will increase, you stop it will stop. As the reviews say "top mulcher". I would recommend model 20384, which has been our top seller this year.

If you have wide open area to cut then the toro and its variable speed is really good.

However if you have a lot of flower beds etc where pushing and tight turning is involved then it can be difficult and pernickety to move.

Look at snapper also.

homestuff said:

THanks for the info. I didn't realize the HYA version didn't have the paddle control, which is ideal...it's also even more expensive.

That husqvarna I've looked at but the reviews are so-so and the mulching is not great.

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The Husqvarna was just an example because it had the Honda 190c that everyone claims to be fantastic. So if the reviews are not great or are just so so I think that would tell me I don't want a Honda. I personally own two Toro's and both Have been flawless. The Turf-Master not that I'm telling you buy a commercial but is Imo the best mulching mower I've ever owned. Personally I'd take Rivets advice to heart and buy the mower ( 20384 ) he suggested.

The bad reviews I have seen with the Husqvarna were not with the engine.

My hands are small so squeezing all these handles is uncomfortable. It's too wide to comfortably grasp. I have to wear gloves so I don't get blisters and I find my hands become cramped and tremulous after I finish.
-firstmateRCI

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I bought this mower a couple months ago.
When I use the bag function the cut is great and the mower functions well.
When I use the mulching function, the cut is terrible. The mower sounds like it is going to blow up and it shakes all over the place. After a couple of passes, I have to stop and clear the cut grass from the rear of the mower where the bag attaches or it dies.
-James77

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I bought this mower this spring for the AWD, and it has not disappointed in this area. It has disappointed, however, in mowing quality. Bagging is great, although the position of the bag when it is full makes it easy to kick with my toes as it bounces up and down. Mulching is terrible. It releases clumps of grass every 10 feet or so making it useless as a mulcher. My previous mower, a Honda, excelled at mulching and the finely chopped grass clippings enriched the soil and improved my lawn. Sad to say this is not possible with this mower. Husqvarna really needs to address this issue and this would truly be a great mower.
-Chuck21

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Yeah, the reviews i've read on the husqy usually rave about the engine and traction, but slam the controls. I'd imagine its a lot of unnecessary wait too if you have a flat yard. I think you would be happy with a snapper given that your yard is flat. I would by one from a dealer that will have it assembled for you though, the bad reviews I've read are from buyers on mowersdirect.com that bought through them and had to do their own assembly. Some had a hard time putting theirs together and some were missing mounting hardware, but I don't think anyone complained about performance. The best would be a left over ninja with the Briggs professional series engine, which they only offer on the commercial mower and the SP series mowers for some dumb reason now.

I have and use both styles commercially the flappy padle is really easy to use once you get use to it. In neutral the paddles are straight up in the air and in full walk it rests easy with your palm. My hrr is not the best mulcher with the quadra cut system the micro cut system is much better.

The toro personal pace is not difficult to use personally I think its a little hard to maneurver the super recycler is a really long mower makes turning wide. When turning under obsticles it can get tricky. You have to push down on the drive bar so if you are under say a tree branch you have to extend your arm and try to push the drive without hurting your face or arm. The super recycler mulching is nice I have a gator blade or toro calls it atomic blade and it can bust through thick grass and not leave any clippings the honda can't stand next to the toro on mulching capabilities.

A lot of good information and opinions here. Thank you guys very much for that. I've been trolling craigslist, so far without luck but still hoping maybe I can find something. I need to go and have another look at the Toro's. My only exposure to them has been through home depot and they don't sell some of the higher end models. It's also funny that they always have them up on a display where you can't push them for yourself.

I would love to find an 217HYA on closeout, that would be sweet.

I've read so many reviews, everyone loves or hates their mower :laughing:

homestuff said:

A lot of good information and opinions here. Thank you guys very much for that. I've been trolling craigslist, so far without luck but still hoping maybe I can find something. I need to go and have another look at the Toro's. My only exposure to them has been through home depot and they don't sell some of the higher end models. It's also funny that they always have them up on a display where you can't push them for yourself.

I would love to find an 217HYA on closeout, that would be sweet.

I've read so many reviews, everyone loves or hates their mower :laughing:

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Just have one of the many bored sales reps at homedepot get one down for you. Hell 3 off the could lift it down and they wouldn't be short staffed by a long shot