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The ID plate isn't under the gas tank, so other than the tag in the pic, I can't find it. Where do they put them on these old tecumseh's?

Also, and just as important, the engine has compression. Except it's all going out the carburetor. So I'm guessing it has a valve stuck? Is that right? I can't hold my thumb over the carb tight enough to get a compression reading.
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Kinds looks like a HM60 or a HH60. Is it aluminum or cast iron block?

On that old Troy-Bilt Horse there should a model and serial before the separation point the tines transmission. Also that Tecumseh will be likely a HH60 or HH70. Now looking at the engine from the front the model and spec will stamp on the right side of the engine shroud. (Left side if you're are standing behind the handle bars.)

Hammermechanicman said:

Kinds looks like a HM60 or a HH60. Is it aluminum or cast iron block?

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The block is steel. But the backside cover is aluminum.

StarTech said:

On that old Troy-Bilt Horse there should a model and serial before the separation point the tines transmission. Also that Tecumseh will be likely a HH60 or HH70. Now looking at the engine from the front the model and spec will stamp on the right side of the engine shroud. (Left side if you're standing the handle bars.

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Right where you said it was. I looked there and didn't see anything until I took a wire brush to it. This it just magically appeared. Thanks man.
HH60-105107G.

See sometimes I am good for something...

PT ever heard of leak down tests?There are commercial units that help find things like stuck valves or bad rings. Harbor Freight now has two versions.

One you use 100 psi and the second gauge cylinder pressure. You have to do a little math to get the percentages.

The other unit uses a scale to this for you. Now it does the test at a much lower pressure range. Mine operates with 12-14 psi to get to set mark. It much easier to cycle the cylinder thru it paces as you are not fighting 100 psi. Great for finding middle and bottom cylinder problem on OHV engines but doesn't work this way for L-heads. I have found several OHV engines with taper cylinders with this tester. On top that it is about a third of the cost of the higher priced unit.

With either unit always reset to zero pressure before storage or you might damage the gauges the next you pressurize it.

StarTech said:

PT ever heard of leak down tests?There are commercial units that help find things like stuck valves or bad rings. Harbor Freight now has two versions.

One you use 100 psi and the second gauge cylinder pressure. You have to do a little math to get the percentages.

The other unit uses a scale to this for you. Now it does the test at a much lower pressure range. Mine operates with 12-14 psi to get to set mark. It much easier to cycle the cylinder thru it paces as you are not fighting 100 psi. Great for finding middle and bottom cylinder problem on OHV engines but doesn't work this way for L-heads. I have found several OHV engines with taper cylinders with this tester. On top that it is about a third of the cost of the higher priced unit.

With either unit always reset to zero pressure before storage or you might damage the gauges the next you pressurize it.

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So a crap load of pressure blowing back out the carburetor, every time the piston comes up, might not mean a stuck valve?

Pull rhe head and look at the valves. If the engine has set for a long time with the intake valve open it may have stuck open with a little rust on the stem. If it is squirt a little oil on the stem through the intake port and then tap the valve closed then rotate the engine and see if it sticks open. If it does tap it closed angain and repeat till valve is freed up.

Hammermechanicman said:

Pull rhe head and look at the valves. If the engine has set for a long time with the intake valve open it may have stuck open with a little rust on the stem. If it is squirt a little oil on the stem through the intake port and then tap the valve closed then rotate the engine and see if it sticks open. If it does tap it closed angain and repeat till valve is freed up.

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I'd better wait for the customer to give the OK to go on the clock before I dig any farther. Being as old as it is. he may not wanna put any money into it. I looked up some parts for it earlier. I can't remember which valve it was, but one was pretty cheap. Like $13. The other was $50+

What you seen on the valve prices was the OS intake that is so expensive. But personally I wouldn't be tapping a stuck valve back in as if rusted it can damage the valve guide making the OS valve necessary. Plus you need a reamer to oversize the valve guide. Another 30+ dollars.

StarTech said:

What you seen on the valve prices was the OS intake that is so expensive. But personally I wouldn't be tapping a stuck valve back in as if rusted it can damage the valve guide making the OS valve necessary. Plus you need a reamer to oversize the valve guide. Another 30+ dollars.

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Well I've tried hollering at it. And it won't budge. I may have to get physical with it. lol

Yes you need to get physical with it. Just try not to do more damage. I rather pull it out and replace whenever possible but I don't like make do repairs myself as they always have comeback to bite me in the tail feathers. Usually taking a lot of them and some skin too.

I have freed up lots of stuck valves. Unless the valve stem has real rust not just some light surface rust it should be fine. If customer wants him to persue it.
Check the carb throttle shaft for play. The carbs on those tillers are bad for wearing out the shaft and the throttle shaft bore of the carb. Depending on where the piston was when stored may be some surface rust in the cylinder. If engine was stuck may want to pull the head and wipe out any crud. Do you have spark?

Hammermechanicman said:

I have freed up lots of stuck valves. Unless the valve stem has real rust not just some light surface rust it should be fine. If customer wants him to persue it.
Check the carb throttle shaft for play. The carbs on those tillers are bad for wearing out the shaft and the throttle shaft bore of the carb. Depending on where the piston was when stored may be some surface rust in the cylinder. If engine was stuck may want to pull the head and wipe out any crud. Do you have spark?

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Yes, I have spark.

Probably worth reviving. Aftermarket carbs are cheap. About the only thing that kills those old engines was blown rods and worn out carbs.

Hammermechanicman said:

Probably worth reviving. Aftermarket carbs are cheap. About the only thing that kills those old engines was blown rods and worn out carbs.

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With all this corona virus epidemic, I should've bought more tillers this winter. I'd be making a killing right now. Had 3 calls in the last week. I hope this guy wants to put out the money for this one.
It'll probably need to have the valves cleaned & adjusted. I haven't done a flat head in a while.

Adjust the valves on a flathead? I usually find once the valve stems are filed to the correct gap and unless you cut a seat or install new valves you don't need to adjust lash. Those engines are very forgiving. I would just give them a light lapping if needed. Those old real Troy Bilt tillers are worth putting some money into.

Hammermechanicman said:

Adjust the valves on a flathead? I usually find once the valve stems are filed to the correct gap and unless you cut a seat or install new valves you don't need to adjust lash. Those engines are very forgiving. I would just give them a light lapping if needed. Those old real Troy Bilt tillers are worth putting some money into.

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That's what I've heard. But my luck doesn't run that good. Got my fingers crossed.

Yes exactly what needs to be done along with a valve job at the same time. Requires removing the valves and filing squarely. Got to be careful not to over do it. And the clearance are checked with the spring installed. L-head tend to close up the clearances until they are negative as where OHV tend open up the clearances leading to ACRs not working.

StarTech said:

Yes exactly what needs to be done along with a valve job at the same time. Requires removing the valves and filing squarely. Got to be careful not to over do it. And the clearance are checked with the spring installed. L-head tend to close up the clearances until they are negative as where OHV tend open up the clearances leading to ACRs not working.

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Firmly pressed down, what difference does the spring make? I understand if you have a weak spring, that could make some difference. But pulled flat is pulled flat, right?

I just going by what the service manuals state as the procedure. I have seen valves not fully seat due worn valve guides. And with the Briggs valve tool kits those GO - NO GO gauges don't work as intended.

When i install a valve and set lash i set it .001 wide and about half the time when i install the spring and keeper it closes up the .001. Sometimes it doesn't. I could never justify a Neway cutter so i just redneck the seats with scotchbrite and a drill then lap in the valves.
Back in the day when i built 5hp briggs for go-cart racing i would double stack new guides in the block. The weak link of the 5hp briggs at 6500RPM is the valve guides.

PTmowerMech said:

Firmly pressed down, what difference does the spring make? I understand if you have a weak spring, that could make some difference. But pulled flat is pulled flat, right?

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In my service manual they give 2 different valve lashes.
One for springs fitted & one for "held down" which is near twice the size
Did a couple that way and found the gap was too small when the springs were fitted even if I used the largest setting for no spring.

PTmowerMech said:

The ID plate isn't under the gas tank, so other than the tag in the pic, I can't find it. Where do they put them on these old tecumseh's?

Also, and just as important, the engine has compression. Except it's all going out the carburetor. So I'm guessing it has a valve stuck? Is that right? I can't hold my thumb over the carb tight enough to get a compression reading.
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View attachment 51080 View attachment 51081

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It's probably #000001

I wished I had more customers like this. I finally get him on the phone and tell what I think it is, but I'd have to go on the clock to know for sure. Quote him 1/2 to diagnose, and he says, "Well, get it to it." (laughingly)

So as instructed by some of the brightest minds here at LawnWorld, I remove the head, get the valve freed up and working like it's supposed to. No side to side movement, can't turn them with my thumb. Cleaned everything up. The head gasket looked a little burnt on the exhaust side, so I flipped it to the intake side. Put the head back on and did the compression check and was getting 95lbs.
Hooked my gas tank to it, and fired it up. And she ran like a little kitten.
Now the good part.
I sent the customer a short video of the engine running. He calls and says "I have heard that engine run for 10 years. The first time I heard it run is when I was a young boy and my dad had just brought it home, brand new."
I suppose it's like a family heirloom. He said he had a lot of memories with that tiller.
At the end of the conversation is was do what ever it needs, I'll send you some money tomorrow. He's not been one to haggle about prices, parts money, diagnostic money. Or anything. I've been fair with the guy, and he's been fair right back.

Wished they all were like that.

BTW, I'm going to replace the headgasket, muffler, valve cover seal, battery and solenoid.

I just got the new head gasket on, looked up the torque, and what I'm seeing can't be right. Can it? 110 inch lbs?

IF we are stilling talking about the HH60 it is 200 in lbs for the cylinder head. The 110 is for the intake pipe.

StarTech said:

IF we are stilling talking about the HH60 it is 200 in lbs for the cylinder head. The 110 is for the intake pipe.

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Ah. I thought that was wrong. Thanks man.

The infomation is in the TECUMSEH-3HP-TO-11HP-4-CYCLE-L-HEAD-FLAT-HEAD-ENGINES-692509 available from K&T Parts House.

Customer says this air filter housing is original. But with this air filter in it, I can't see how it could draw air. Both ends of the AF block the housing holes, so it's gotta be the wrong air filter, right? The tin end, has to go towards the holes, which blocks the housing holes.
My problem is, I can't find an AF that fit this housing.
The housing is about 2 1/4 deep (to the curve)
Here's what I got. BTW, Partstree and the others don't seem to have anything close to this. Could the housing and the filter be wrong? Or just the AF.

What you need is the tapered filter. I believe it is PN
Tecumseh 30727
or
You need to order the complete air cleaner assembly PN 730127 or the foam filter 31700

StarTech said:

What you need is the tapered filter. I believe it is PN
Tecumseh 30727
or
You need to order the complete air cleaner assembly PN 730127 or the foam filter 31700

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Thanks man. This is one of those situation where I knew I was right. But was hoping like the dickens I was just missing something simple. None the less, customer was gonna have to wait a few more days anywho, because the muffler I got from Stens didn't come with a gasket.
So I'm ordering all this from partstree. A little more than Amazon. But can get it in 3 days, instead of Amazons 4 or 5.

Thanks again.