You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Export thread
frequency to change hydro oil / filter but only average 70 hrs a year? Still yearly?
#1
R
RCountry2
R
RCountry2
Hi all, That time again for breaking out my 2011 SE 27/60. I know the manual states 1000 hours or annually. Now all I'll about preventive maintenance but also don't like to waste money. Should I still change yearly even though low hours or what? Thanks
#2
H
Honda Tech
H
Honda Tech
The most important hydro fluid/filter service is the very first one. I would not abide by their 1000 hr service interval. That is biting them in the butt now. After you first recommended service, 500 hrs max., but since your running less than 100 hrs per year, it certainly wouldn't hurt to change it every 3 years.
Happy Mowing!
Happy Mowing!
#4
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
There's also the school of thought that the less you service your hydros the better, the reason being the chance of introducing dust/dirt/debris during the service. Frequent service could end up doing more hard than good, so I wouldn't overdo it.
#5
R
RCountry2
Never thought about it that way.
R
RCountry2
There's also the school of thought that the less you service your hydros the better, the reason being the chance of introducing dust/dirt/debris during the service. Frequent service could end up doing more hard than good, so I wouldn't overdo it.
Never thought about it that way.
#6
C
cruzenmike
C
cruzenmike
My Exmark manual said at 250 hours and every year after. With only 50 hours of use per year it worked out to going 5 season without servicing it. Spending an extra $60 for filter and oil at the start of each season thereafter is steep; but I do it anyway. I am also an idiot and buy only genuine Briggs and Exmark parts for my mower and usually do a full tune up each season. But hey, after 12 seasons of use it still runs great. This year I went a little further and decided to replace all of the fuel lines, fuel pump and fuel shutoff.
Sidetracked.... Anyway, the two main issues with maintaining hydraulic systems is the introduction of contamination and air pockets in the pumps creating cavitation. I'm always careful to do exactly as the manual says. You don't ever want to drain the system unless it is necessary to do a repair. And you must always thoroughly clean the areas around your filter, the filler cap and anywhere else your system is being opened prior to beginning your service.
Sidetracked.... Anyway, the two main issues with maintaining hydraulic systems is the introduction of contamination and air pockets in the pumps creating cavitation. I'm always careful to do exactly as the manual says. You don't ever want to drain the system unless it is necessary to do a repair. And you must always thoroughly clean the areas around your filter, the filler cap and anywhere else your system is being opened prior to beginning your service.
#7
Fish
Fish
The first service is just a ploy to get more money/profit....
#8
R
RCountry2
Thought that it would be to remove the metal particles and contaminants from the initial break-in and and of course the crap that gets in the system during installation....and of course more money as you stated.
R
RCountry2
The first service is just a ploy to get more money/profit....
Thought that it would be to remove the metal particles and contaminants from the initial break-in and and of course the crap that gets in the system during installation....and of course more money as you stated.
#9
D
Darryl G
Wait, what? So you don't drain and change the oil? Isn't that the point of servicing the transaxles?
D
Darryl G
My Exmark manual said at 250 hours and every year after. With only 50 hours of use per year it worked out to going 5 season without servicing it. Spending an extra $60 for filter and oil at the start of each season thereafter is steep; but I do it anyway. I am also an idiot and buy only genuine Briggs and Exmark parts for my mower and usually do a full tune up each season. But hey, after 12 seasons of use it still runs great. This year I went a little further and decided to replace all of the fuel lines, fuel pump and fuel shutoff.
Sidetracked.... Anyway, the two main issues with maintaining hydraulic systems is the introduction of contamination and air pockets in the pumps creating cavitation. I'm always careful to do exactly as the manual says. You don't ever want to drain the system unless it is necessary to do a repair. And you must always thoroughly clean the areas around your filter, the filler cap and anywhere else your system is being opened prior to beginning your service.
Wait, what? So you don't drain and change the oil? Isn't that the point of servicing the transaxles?
#10
H
Honda Tech
You seem to have certifications for everything but hydraulics. I can tell you this, I wouldn't see as many hydro failures under 300 hours if that first service was performed! But if you want to leave the contaminants in the system until it prematurely failed and then blame it on the system, go ahead. It's not my dime.
H
Honda Tech
The first service is just a ploy to get more money/profit....
You seem to have certifications for everything but hydraulics. I can tell you this, I wouldn't see as many hydro failures under 300 hours if that first service was performed! But if you want to leave the contaminants in the system until it prematurely failed and then blame it on the system, go ahead. It's not my dime.
#11
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
Fact: Hydro-Gear recommends an initial filter AND OIL change at between 75 and 100 hours and every 400 hours thereafter for their ZT-2800, ZT-3100, ZT-3200 and ZT-3400 transaxles.
Fact 2: For all Bob-Cat zero-turn mowers "the transaxle / pumps / wheel motors will have a 2 year warranty which can be extended to a 3 year warranty, provided the product is within the warranty period and if the hydraulic system is maintenanced at the required service intervals by an authorized BOBCAT dealer in accordance with the requirements stated in the manual."
It says that the service needs to be completed by an authorized dealer to extend the warranty from 2 to 3 years. For me that meant having the initial service done by my dealer before I hit 100 hours. Cost was approximately $200.
My thoughts regarding hydros are similar to my thoughts relating to engine air filtration systems. DON'T OPEN THE SYSTEM UNLESS THERE IS A REAL NEED TO DO SO. Every time you crack open a cap and expose the unit to the environment you risk introducing contamination. This contamination is often the direct cause of failures. It would therefore have been better to just leave it alone. Even if you try to clean the cap and the plug holes ahead of time there's usually some grit embedded on the threads and around the entry point if you just wipe it. Don't just wipe it off with a rag. Wipe it and wash it. Make sure that it is absolutely clean! The whole process should be done in a clean dust-free environment. Pretend you're a surgeon. Take your time! Yes, there's an inline filter, but the damage done by the contamination getting through the unit to the filter will still occur and is permanent.
What I'm saying is if you're going to hastily service/check your hydros and not pay extraordinary attention to not getting ANYTHING foreign into the unit, don't touch it. Your good intentions are more likely to ruin your hydros than prolong their life.
Other causes of hydro failures are not keeping the unit clean causing overheating, operating them with the mower at low engine speeds, and pushing/pulling/towing the mower without disengaging the hydros. Abuse as well. I'll bet more hydros are destroyed by the above reasons than lack of service.
It's also a good idea to give your hydros a rest now and then, especially during heavy use in hot conditions. I try to idle down my mower and take a water break for 5 minutes every hour or so to let things cool off when I'm mowing my back acreage in the summer that takes about 5 hours.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a transmission temperature gauge display on the hourmeter?
Fact 2: For all Bob-Cat zero-turn mowers "the transaxle / pumps / wheel motors will have a 2 year warranty which can be extended to a 3 year warranty, provided the product is within the warranty period and if the hydraulic system is maintenanced at the required service intervals by an authorized BOBCAT dealer in accordance with the requirements stated in the manual."
It says that the service needs to be completed by an authorized dealer to extend the warranty from 2 to 3 years. For me that meant having the initial service done by my dealer before I hit 100 hours. Cost was approximately $200.
My thoughts regarding hydros are similar to my thoughts relating to engine air filtration systems. DON'T OPEN THE SYSTEM UNLESS THERE IS A REAL NEED TO DO SO. Every time you crack open a cap and expose the unit to the environment you risk introducing contamination. This contamination is often the direct cause of failures. It would therefore have been better to just leave it alone. Even if you try to clean the cap and the plug holes ahead of time there's usually some grit embedded on the threads and around the entry point if you just wipe it. Don't just wipe it off with a rag. Wipe it and wash it. Make sure that it is absolutely clean! The whole process should be done in a clean dust-free environment. Pretend you're a surgeon. Take your time! Yes, there's an inline filter, but the damage done by the contamination getting through the unit to the filter will still occur and is permanent.
What I'm saying is if you're going to hastily service/check your hydros and not pay extraordinary attention to not getting ANYTHING foreign into the unit, don't touch it. Your good intentions are more likely to ruin your hydros than prolong their life.
Other causes of hydro failures are not keeping the unit clean causing overheating, operating them with the mower at low engine speeds, and pushing/pulling/towing the mower without disengaging the hydros. Abuse as well. I'll bet more hydros are destroyed by the above reasons than lack of service.
It's also a good idea to give your hydros a rest now and then, especially during heavy use in hot conditions. I try to idle down my mower and take a water break for 5 minutes every hour or so to let things cool off when I'm mowing my back acreage in the summer that takes about 5 hours.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a transmission temperature gauge display on the hourmeter?
#12
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
I guess I'll never find out why someone would service their hydros annually yet recommend to never drain the oil unless a repair is needed. Makes zero sense to me. That's like changing your underwear every day but never washing them. :laughing:
#13
C
cruzenmike
I could not answer why the manufacturer would recommend this, but it makes sense to me that the manufacturer would only want you to remove as much fluid necessary to do the filter service. While replacing fluid that has experienced some degradation/decomposition, it is the filter that removes the particulates. So long as you do not introduce any contamination into the system, the fluid after the change will be cleaner than before it was serviced. Also, if all of the fluid was drained, which I believe you would have actually siphon the system, you could then introduce air into the motors which would otherwise be primed if the filter alone was removed. If a problem arose from air being introduced into the system by mistake, you would likely end up with a disgruntled consumer who then has to get professional service for something that they themselves should have been able to do at home.
Again, I do not have the answer but I did pose this question to a mechanic that services hydraulic systems on large manufacturing equipment and he mentioned the risk of cavitation in the pump if you cannot properly remove the air. I don't know if this would actually happen but if anyone out there has made it a habit of completely removing the fluid while doing a filter change and top off, I would appreciate their input on this. I simply follow the Owner's Manual.
C
cruzenmike
I guess I'll never find out why someone would service their hydros annually yet recommend to never drain the oil unless a repair is needed. Makes zero sense to me. That's like changing your underwear every day but never washing them. :laughing:
I could not answer why the manufacturer would recommend this, but it makes sense to me that the manufacturer would only want you to remove as much fluid necessary to do the filter service. While replacing fluid that has experienced some degradation/decomposition, it is the filter that removes the particulates. So long as you do not introduce any contamination into the system, the fluid after the change will be cleaner than before it was serviced. Also, if all of the fluid was drained, which I believe you would have actually siphon the system, you could then introduce air into the motors which would otherwise be primed if the filter alone was removed. If a problem arose from air being introduced into the system by mistake, you would likely end up with a disgruntled consumer who then has to get professional service for something that they themselves should have been able to do at home.
Again, I do not have the answer but I did pose this question to a mechanic that services hydraulic systems on large manufacturing equipment and he mentioned the risk of cavitation in the pump if you cannot properly remove the air. I don't know if this would actually happen but if anyone out there has made it a habit of completely removing the fluid while doing a filter change and top off, I would appreciate their input on this. I simply follow the Owner's Manual.
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
I will add my 20¢ worth.
When I do a tranny oil change I soda blast around every where that I will be removing a filter or plug .
This is preceeded by a strong blow dawn with the long handle air duster running at the max pressure my compressor can pump out , 180 psi of the entire area
Then after the soda blast they get a pressure wash then a blow dry then they sit for at least 1/2 day to make sure everything is clean & dry.
After that it is as per tranny makers instructions re quantities & purging & topping up.
A consideration that few owners take into account when they purchase their machines.
A remote reservior and a remote filter make this process really quick & easy.
On the Cub Cadet tractors I drop the tranny all together so it can be cleaned properly before removing the oil filter.
This also allows the oil filter to be pre filled if the tranny is rotated 90 deg.
The tranny then gets its purging & topping up before it is replaced in the tractor.
You can never clean the work area enough.
A tiny amount of dust can trash the hydros in no time flat.
SO if you can not be bothered to clean the area properly don't change the oil.
The life of synthetic oil in a hydro box is almost forever the only reason for changing it is removing the wear debris.
When I do a tranny oil change I soda blast around every where that I will be removing a filter or plug .
This is preceeded by a strong blow dawn with the long handle air duster running at the max pressure my compressor can pump out , 180 psi of the entire area
Then after the soda blast they get a pressure wash then a blow dry then they sit for at least 1/2 day to make sure everything is clean & dry.
After that it is as per tranny makers instructions re quantities & purging & topping up.
A consideration that few owners take into account when they purchase their machines.
A remote reservior and a remote filter make this process really quick & easy.
On the Cub Cadet tractors I drop the tranny all together so it can be cleaned properly before removing the oil filter.
This also allows the oil filter to be pre filled if the tranny is rotated 90 deg.
The tranny then gets its purging & topping up before it is replaced in the tractor.
You can never clean the work area enough.
A tiny amount of dust can trash the hydros in no time flat.
SO if you can not be bothered to clean the area properly don't change the oil.
The life of synthetic oil in a hydro box is almost forever the only reason for changing it is removing the wear debris.
#15
C
cruzenmike
My Exmark used to require Mobil 1 15W-50 in the hydro system but no longer does Exmark recommend use of this oil. Something changed in the formulation of Mobil 1 so Exmark now sells their own hydro fluid that contains the proper chemical formulation/additives. I think it was Zinc or some other mineral in the oil that the hydro system benefits from but regulations don't allow for this to be used in "on-road" vehicle oils anymore.
Also, I know that the filter used in my system is bi-directional. This is not a gimmick, because I have seen these types of filters in industrial applications. Anyway, between the cost of the filter and fluid, we have a $60 annual hydro service. Steep but beats burning up EZT's every couple of years.
C
cruzenmike
The life of synthetic oil in a hydro box is almost forever the only reason for changing it is removing the wear debris.
My Exmark used to require Mobil 1 15W-50 in the hydro system but no longer does Exmark recommend use of this oil. Something changed in the formulation of Mobil 1 so Exmark now sells their own hydro fluid that contains the proper chemical formulation/additives. I think it was Zinc or some other mineral in the oil that the hydro system benefits from but regulations don't allow for this to be used in "on-road" vehicle oils anymore.
Also, I know that the filter used in my system is bi-directional. This is not a gimmick, because I have seen these types of filters in industrial applications. Anyway, between the cost of the filter and fluid, we have a $60 annual hydro service. Steep but beats burning up EZT's every couple of years.
#16
D
Darryl G
D
Darryl G
Oh, now I get it. Sorry, didn't realize you had EZT trans on that machine. I know the later ones have HG pumps and wheel motors. They must have upgraded the hydros on newer models.My Exmark used to require Mobil 1 15W-50 in the hydro system but no longer does Exmark recommend use of this oil. Something changed in the formulation of Mobil 1 so Exmark now sells their own hydro fluid that contains the proper chemical formulation/additives. I think it was Zinc or some other mineral in the oil that the hydro system benefits from but regulations don't allow for this to be used in "on-road" vehicle oils anymore.
Also, I know that the filter used in my system is bi-directional. This is not a gimmick, because I have seen these types of filters in industrial applications. Anyway, between the cost of the filter and fluid, we have a $60 annual hydro service. Steep but beats burning up EZT's every couple of years.
#17
C
cruzenmike
No, I have Hydro-Gear pumps and Parker/Danfoss drive motors. I was simply making a statement regarding the added expense of servicing a system like mine beats having a relatively non-serviceable system like EZT's which would fail in less time.
C
cruzenmike
Oh, now I get it. Sorry, didn't realize you had EZT trans on that machine. I know the later ones have HG pumps and wheel motors. They must have upgraded the hydros on newer models.
No, I have Hydro-Gear pumps and Parker/Danfoss drive motors. I was simply making a statement regarding the added expense of servicing a system like mine beats having a relatively non-serviceable system like EZT's which would fail in less time.
#18
D
Darryl G
Ok. Bert goes into detail about how important it is to not introduce contamination into the system during service and the lengths he goes to in order to prevent it. That was my main point here - that servicing them could actually do more harm than good and why mine don't get serviced unless necessary. Different strokes for different folks. :smile:
D
Darryl G
No, I have Hydro-Gear pumps and Parker/Danfoss drive motors. I was simply making a statement regarding the added expense of servicing a system like mine beats having a relatively non-serviceable system like EZT's which would fail in less time.
Ok. Bert goes into detail about how important it is to not introduce contamination into the system during service and the lengths he goes to in order to prevent it. That was my main point here - that servicing them could actually do more harm than good and why mine don't get serviced unless necessary. Different strokes for different folks. :smile:
#19
C
cruzenmike
More like, pick your paranoia; premature failure from lack of service or contamination from doing any service at all!
C
cruzenmike
Ok. Bert goes into detail about how important it is to not introduce contamination into the system during service and the lengths he goes to in order to prevent it. That was my main point here - that servicing them could actually do more harm than good and why mine don't get serviced unless necessary. Different strokes for different folks. :smile:
More like, pick your paranoia; premature failure from lack of service or contamination from doing any service at all!
#20
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Yep that was the whole point.
Some are really hard to get at and even harder to clean.
An inital early oil change is important because the highest rate of wear in during break in.
After that the less you touch it the better.
If you have an external filter then change it at the hourly interval specified by the maker
Hydros are the one thing where less maintenance is better due to contamination possibilities.
The oil will last forever all you are doing is removing the wear debris and wear debris is directly proportional to hours of use.
The caveat to that is water condensing inside the trans which will cause the oil to deteroriate.
So if your engine oil goes milky during the off season then you will need to change the oil a bit more than at the hourly intervals.
It is the same as fuel going off.
A lot of it has to do with your local enviroment, where you store the mower and how long an average working session is.
The factory can not account for all of these variations in use.
So if you were one of my customers, I would change your oil at the beginning of the second season so I can see what the oil looked like after storage.
From there I would check the makers recommendations and sort out a schedule for you.
If your oil came out crystal clear then it would be at the maximum hours ( or even higher ) .
If it came out grubby & milky then it will be annually, at the beginning of the season to get rid of the condensation of the off season storage.
Unlike engine oil, where you have the combustion contaminants changing the chemistry of the oil , and additives that react or just plain oxadise plus the effect of very high temperatures.
The only thing that causes tranny oil to deteriorate is water from the air inside the box, other than that is has an easy life
Some are really hard to get at and even harder to clean.
An inital early oil change is important because the highest rate of wear in during break in.
After that the less you touch it the better.
If you have an external filter then change it at the hourly interval specified by the maker
Hydros are the one thing where less maintenance is better due to contamination possibilities.
The oil will last forever all you are doing is removing the wear debris and wear debris is directly proportional to hours of use.
The caveat to that is water condensing inside the trans which will cause the oil to deteroriate.
So if your engine oil goes milky during the off season then you will need to change the oil a bit more than at the hourly intervals.
It is the same as fuel going off.
A lot of it has to do with your local enviroment, where you store the mower and how long an average working session is.
The factory can not account for all of these variations in use.
So if you were one of my customers, I would change your oil at the beginning of the second season so I can see what the oil looked like after storage.
From there I would check the makers recommendations and sort out a schedule for you.
If your oil came out crystal clear then it would be at the maximum hours ( or even higher ) .
If it came out grubby & milky then it will be annually, at the beginning of the season to get rid of the condensation of the off season storage.
Unlike engine oil, where you have the combustion contaminants changing the chemistry of the oil , and additives that react or just plain oxadise plus the effect of very high temperatures.
The only thing that causes tranny oil to deteriorate is water from the air inside the box, other than that is has an easy life
#21
E
EricC
E
EricC
i'll be changing mine this spring. Almost to the 80hr mark and i always blow my leaves under my pine trees in the fall. My maples drop them late and it got cold fast last year and stayed, so I just removed battery treated gas tank and called it a season. I'd rather have changed fluids before storage, but winter seemed to come fast and stay. Anyway I was hoping to change it on a nice weekend in March, but considering it's still single digits right now, who knows when. just picked up the Hydro oil and filters off amazon. I don't plan on changing every season if fluids look ok, outside of engine oil.
#22
R
RCountry2
R
RCountry2
Well crap...I was hoping to change my oil yesterday with the syn oil I go but guess what? Drove it around the house 2 days ago to make sure everything works still and noticed would not run unless choke was 1/4 way out. Figured trash in carb and I needed to remove bowl and clean it. Next I I tried it again but would not run at all but would sputter with starter fluid so cleaned it with same results. Checked fuel pump and pressure was 1.3 to carb. Thought I my have to remove and rebuild it but was unable to find a kit (Generac 0G4610 Carburetor 0F93380SR) was about to buy a new one when I decided to check the fuel cut off valve and glad I did as its dead. Guess when I was running with choke 1/4 out it was not opening all the way and the next day when I went to crank it it died completely.
#23
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
On late models carbs ALL of the fuel passes through the main jet so the shut off solenoid shuts all of the fuel off.\
On earlier carbs the idle fuel pick up was independent of the main jet so it will suck fuel when the solenoid is closed.
But only enough to run at idle or with the choke partially closed.
On earlier carbs the idle fuel pick up was independent of the main jet so it will suck fuel when the solenoid is closed.
But only enough to run at idle or with the choke partially closed.
#24
J
jp1961
J
jp1961
You live in Georgia, so this may not be a problem, but I've actually had hydrostatic fluid on my Kubota freeze due to condensation in the oil. It takes several fluid changes to get the water out.
My hydro oil filter actually froze in single digit temps and expand the filter housing like a frozen pop can.
Not sure why I live in Michigan,,,LOL
Regards
Jeff
My hydro oil filter actually froze in single digit temps and expand the filter housing like a frozen pop can.
Not sure why I live in Michigan,,,LOL
Regards
Jeff
#25
D
DK35vince
A lot of short run times and never getting the oil hot is the only thing I know could cause that much condensation build up.
Do you park it outside in the elements ??
Can't say I have ever had condensation buildup to where it could be noticed in any tractor or mower I have ever owned.
I change the hydraulic oil in my zero turn every 250 hours (around every 5 years)
My tractor get the hydraulic oil changed every 800 hours ( around every 8 years)
Oil always still looks fine. No water or condensation. (stored in unheated pole barn)
D
DK35vince
With that much condensation you must never run long enough to get the oil up to temperature to cook it out.You live in Georgia, so this may not be a problem, but I've actually had hydrostatic fluid on my Kubota freeze due to condensation in the oil. It takes several fluid changes to get the water out.
My hydro oil filter actually froze in single digit temps and expand the filter housing like a frozen pop can.
Not sure why I live in Michigan,,,LOL
Regards
Jeff
A lot of short run times and never getting the oil hot is the only thing I know could cause that much condensation build up.
Do you park it outside in the elements ??
Can't say I have ever had condensation buildup to where it could be noticed in any tractor or mower I have ever owned.
I change the hydraulic oil in my zero turn every 250 hours (around every 5 years)
My tractor get the hydraulic oil changed every 800 hours ( around every 8 years)
Oil always still looks fine. No water or condensation. (stored in unheated pole barn)
#26
J
jp1961
J
jp1961
I run my Kubota about an hour (for each mowing) during the summer months months, but the hydraulic fluid looked like milk, I can assure you.
I mean I'd think water was leaking into the system, but how?,,,got to be condensation.
It is stored outside.
I mean I'd think water was leaking into the system, but how?,,,got to be condensation.
It is stored outside.
#28
R
RCountry2
Once and a blue moon (few years really) we will have a cold spell where it might stay somewhere around 17 or so a day or two but that's usually about it.Heck this we skipped winter and started spring in mid Feb...I don't think it even got in the 20's this year and no ice or snow..
R
RCountry2
You live in Georgia, so this may not be a problem, but I've actually had hydrostatic fluid on my Kubota freeze due to condensation in the oil. It takes several fluid changes to get the water out.
My hydro oil filter actually froze in single digit temps and expand the filter housing like a frozen pop can.
Not sure why I live in Michigan,,,LOL
Regards
Jeff
Once and a blue moon (few years really) we will have a cold spell where it might stay somewhere around 17 or so a day or two but that's usually about it.Heck this we skipped winter and started spring in mid Feb...I don't think it even got in the 20's this year and no ice or snow..
#29
D
DK35vince
Rain water is getting into the system to cause that amount of water.
D
DK35vince
Stored outside.I run my Kubota about an hour (for each mowing) during the summer months months, but the hydraulic fluid looked like milk, I can assure you.
I mean I'd think water was leaking into the system, but how?,,,got to be condensation.
It is stored outside.
Rain water is getting into the system to cause that amount of water.
#30
H
Hugeroost
man I have an 05 Flatlander, paid 11k for it way back then, just a 54in. I mow 40 acres a month with it, 10 a week, SE Texas, use it year round and take good care of it, and have never changed my hydrolic fluid, and never had a problem. Now engine oil, thats a different thing, i change it as soon as it starts to turn, Kohler Pro 27hp w factor header, never had a problem w it either. Has anybody discovered a machine yet that stacks up to the Chopper, I was told by a dealer up where my ranch is to NEVER get rid o mine, i said why, he said the ones like mine were the shyt, the newer ones were not near as good as what i have. Its mind boggling what this thing has done and never had one single problem, i'd put it up against anything out there right now that i have seen. I do understand that Hustler is a big player and that same dealer told me that was the closest thing to my Chopper, but hell what could happen to mine that i couldnt fix fairly easy. Is there anything on it that is only made by Dixie Chopper ? i dont think so...Roost
H
Hugeroost
Ok. Bert goes into detail about how important it is to not introduce contamination into the system during service and the lengths he goes to in order to prevent it. That was my main point here - that servicing them could actually do more harm than good and why mine don't get serviced unless necessary. Different strokes for different folks. :smile:
man I have an 05 Flatlander, paid 11k for it way back then, just a 54in. I mow 40 acres a month with it, 10 a week, SE Texas, use it year round and take good care of it, and have never changed my hydrolic fluid, and never had a problem. Now engine oil, thats a different thing, i change it as soon as it starts to turn, Kohler Pro 27hp w factor header, never had a problem w it either. Has anybody discovered a machine yet that stacks up to the Chopper, I was told by a dealer up where my ranch is to NEVER get rid o mine, i said why, he said the ones like mine were the shyt, the newer ones were not near as good as what i have. Its mind boggling what this thing has done and never had one single problem, i'd put it up against anything out there right now that i have seen. I do understand that Hustler is a big player and that same dealer told me that was the closest thing to my Chopper, but hell what could happen to mine that i couldnt fix fairly easy. Is there anything on it that is only made by Dixie Chopper ? i dont think so...Roost
#31
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
I am reviving this thread because I find the topic interesting. I would assume, that if the hydro fill tank and the drain plugs are easy to clean / access , it is advisable to change out the hydro oil per factory spec , but in doing so , it may be best to do it during a day when there is very low humidity, to ensure less possibilities of water/ water vapor entering the system ?
For people who do not have easy access to clean those 2 areas , is it really better to never change the hydro oil at all or should it at least be changed for the initial 70-100 hour break in procedure ?
If the hydro oil is never changed and the system is kept closed { unless oil needed to be added for some reason , like a small seal leak} , I assume it is advisable to change the hydro oil filter per factory hourly specs and then add just enough oil to get the proper oil levels in the hydro oil tank , and doing it this way would alleviate issues of air entering the pump/system.... or would just changing the oil filter still cause air to enter the system ?
I can see some logic, in the consumer not even messing with the hydro oil/ hydro filter and just keeping it entirely closed system, and not even taking the caps off the hydro oil tank, unless oil needed to be added to achieve proper fill line measurements.
The big question being, how likely is it, to cause significant damage to the hydro pumps , or see significant degrading pump performance, by never changing hydro oil/ filters as long as the system is kept closed/ clean from outside contaminents ?
For people who do not have easy access to clean those 2 areas , is it really better to never change the hydro oil at all or should it at least be changed for the initial 70-100 hour break in procedure ?
If the hydro oil is never changed and the system is kept closed { unless oil needed to be added for some reason , like a small seal leak} , I assume it is advisable to change the hydro oil filter per factory hourly specs and then add just enough oil to get the proper oil levels in the hydro oil tank , and doing it this way would alleviate issues of air entering the pump/system.... or would just changing the oil filter still cause air to enter the system ?
I can see some logic, in the consumer not even messing with the hydro oil/ hydro filter and just keeping it entirely closed system, and not even taking the caps off the hydro oil tank, unless oil needed to be added to achieve proper fill line measurements.
The big question being, how likely is it, to cause significant damage to the hydro pumps , or see significant degrading pump performance, by never changing hydro oil/ filters as long as the system is kept closed/ clean from outside contaminents ?
#32
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Hydros are assembled in a dust free factory because dust is the big killer
no matter what you do or say if you can pop the top of with it under the mower to fill them then people will do that without doing proper cleaning thus end up with dirt, dust grit & lawn clippings in the transmission
All hydros have a vent of some sort and the oil gets way over boiling point so water in the oil will boil off no problems .
Even most ZTR's you have to remove the hydros to replace the oil
A hydro is not an engine where the products of combustion contaminate the oil so all you are doing is getting rid of wear particles when you replace the oil
On some mowers that have internal disc brakes then oil changes are needed more often to remove the wear debris from the brake pads
no matter what you do or say if you can pop the top of with it under the mower to fill them then people will do that without doing proper cleaning thus end up with dirt, dust grit & lawn clippings in the transmission
All hydros have a vent of some sort and the oil gets way over boiling point so water in the oil will boil off no problems .
Even most ZTR's you have to remove the hydros to replace the oil
A hydro is not an engine where the products of combustion contaminate the oil so all you are doing is getting rid of wear particles when you replace the oil
On some mowers that have internal disc brakes then oil changes are needed more often to remove the wear debris from the brake pads
#33
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
In your opinion, it is probably better for the majority of consumers that use their zero turn for residential , to not even change their own hydro oil or the hydro filter ?Hydros are assembled in a dust free factory because dust is the big killer
no matter what you do or say if you can pop the top of with it under the mower to fill them then people will do that without doing proper cleaning thus end up with dirt, dust grit & lawn clippings in the transmission
All hydros have a vent of some sort and the oil gets way over boiling point so water in the oil will boil off no problems .
Even most ZTR's you have to remove the hydros to replace the oil
A hydro is not an engine where the products of combustion contaminate the oil so all you are doing is getting rid of wear particles when you replace the oil
On some mowers that have internal disc brakes then oil changes are needed more often to remove the wear debris from the brake pads
#34
B
bertsmobile1
Use full synthetic 20w50 oil and make sure everything is very clean before you open the trans
Clean around the oil filter housing and replace it as well then forget about it
If you always operate the mower with the engine at full speed then you should get 1000+ hours out of that transmission
World Lawn owners manuals suggest far more frequent oil changes for the hydros & the engine which again makes me feel they are fakes
B
bertsmobile1
On yours I would do it right now as I suspect the hydros are copies not genuineIn your opinion, it is probably better for the majority of consumers that use their zero turn for residential , to not even change their own hydro oil or the hydro filter ?
Use full synthetic 20w50 oil and make sure everything is very clean before you open the trans
Clean around the oil filter housing and replace it as well then forget about it
If you always operate the mower with the engine at full speed then you should get 1000+ hours out of that transmission
World Lawn owners manuals suggest far more frequent oil changes for the hydros & the engine which again makes me feel they are fakes
#35
N
NavyNancy
When I bought my worldlawn last week from the original owner, it only has 18 hrs on it, but you still suggest I go ahead and change it ? Do you think its best to use the 20-50 w synthetic that has the zinc additives ?
FWIW, I appreciate all your responses/ knowledge .
N
NavyNancy
Thats very interesting. If Worldlawn was using fake hydro gear ZT-3200 for the last several years in their mowers , I would think it would have been revealed by now and the company could face massive lawsuits/ fines from owners/consumers and surely the real HYDRO GEAR corporation could sue them to the point of taking them out of business ? It sure would seem like a very risky endeavor to do such a thing ?On yours I would do it right now as I suspect the hydros are copies not genuine
Use full synthetic 20w50 oil and make sure everything is very clean before you open the trans
Clean around the oil filter housing and replace it as well then forget about it
If you always operate the mower with the engine at full speed then you should get 1000+ hours out of that transmission
World Lawn owners manuals suggest far more frequent oil changes for the hydros & the engine which again makes me feel they are fakes
When I bought my worldlawn last week from the original owner, it only has 18 hrs on it, but you still suggest I go ahead and change it ? Do you think its best to use the 20-50 w synthetic that has the zinc additives ?
FWIW, I appreciate all your responses/ knowledge .
#36
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
I guess I could contact HYDRO GEAR directly and verify if they are the sole supplier of the hydro systems for worldlawn ? It sure would be risky for the company to advertise they are using OEM - original hydro gear systems and then actually be using a cheap forgery/ copy of them. I did contact 3 or 4 local businesses that work on the worldlawn mowers and none of them mentioned issues with the hydro systems . The 2 things that got mentioned was failures with the engines when they were not using the Kawasakis and the ot her thing mentioned was deck belt coming off and the pulleys having to be replaced.
I actually did a decent amount of investigating, prior to driving out to look at the mower and then of course inspecting the mower myself, with the limited knowledge I have. If the kawasaki engines and the hydro gear drives are the real OEM components , then that is at least 2 good things about this brand mower and you wont usually find those components on the big box store zero turn mowers that are in the 2k-4k price ranges ?
I actually did a decent amount of investigating, prior to driving out to look at the mower and then of course inspecting the mower myself, with the limited knowledge I have. If the kawasaki engines and the hydro gear drives are the real OEM components , then that is at least 2 good things about this brand mower and you wont usually find those components on the big box store zero turn mowers that are in the 2k-4k price ranges ?
#37
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Zinc if for scuff protection
It is useless in a hydro
IT is essential for older CAM FOLLOWERS and rockers in auto engines .
Full synthetic is cleaner oil and can take the very high heat & pressure .
Oils aint oils Sol .
It is useless in a hydro
IT is essential for older CAM FOLLOWERS and rockers in auto engines .
Full synthetic is cleaner oil and can take the very high heat & pressure .
Oils aint oils Sol .
#38
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
I contacted HYDROGEAR and asked them if they are the supplier of hydro pump/drives for WORLDLAWN. Hopefully I will get an answer in a few days. I would be shocked if they said no, since WORLDLAWN does advertise they use hydrogear drive/pump systems.
#39
C
chiefcook
C
chiefcook
I have another question. I have ZT 3400's on my Dixon with an expansion tank. Would it be beneficial to change the filters on schedule, suck the oil out of the tank and replace it with new oil? Does the oil in the tank circulate thru the system? I did the initial change at less than 100 hrs and the oil looked terrible and smelled bad.
#40
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
I imagine alot of people change their hydro oil like the guy in this video ? Just look at all the dirt/dust around his filters and resorvoir cap.
#42
S
slomo
S
slomo
Same thing goes for air filters. Leave them alone until you start having reduced power or say a few extra cranks to start her up.
#43
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
That IS the primary reason why domestic level trans are sealed .
Idiots drop dust into the gearbox that destroys a new mower then claim warranty .
I look at the transmission & tell them it was an abuse problem but they want to do the claim just the same so off it goes to the dealer who wants $ 800 to do the preclaim evaluation ( refunded if successful ) .
Owner is now pissed, pays the money , gets their claim knocked back the joins every social media group they can heaping abuse on the mower maker & the dealer .
Most professional lawn care companies will do a proper oil change
I had a Walker in a while back with a leaking oil seal on the axel
I refused to touch it as the fill ports have sealing tape on them and have a life time warranty so I could not refill the transmission without breaking the seal and voiding the "lifetime" warranty on the box
That mower now has 3000 hrs on it, drives have never been touched
Idiots drop dust into the gearbox that destroys a new mower then claim warranty .
I look at the transmission & tell them it was an abuse problem but they want to do the claim just the same so off it goes to the dealer who wants $ 800 to do the preclaim evaluation ( refunded if successful ) .
Owner is now pissed, pays the money , gets their claim knocked back the joins every social media group they can heaping abuse on the mower maker & the dealer .
Most professional lawn care companies will do a proper oil change
I had a Walker in a while back with a leaking oil seal on the axel
I refused to touch it as the fill ports have sealing tape on them and have a life time warranty so I could not refill the transmission without breaking the seal and voiding the "lifetime" warranty on the box
That mower now has 3000 hrs on it, drives have never been touched
#44
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
In your honest opinion , for the average residential owner that only cuts 2-3 acres per week 4-5 months per year , is it even worth it for the consumer to change their hydro oil/ filter ? Would they really see a significant increase in the lifespan of their hydro drives/pumps by changing the oil/filters every few hundred hours ? Im just wondering if its even worth doing for the average residential homeowner { considering the time involved, the cost of the oil/ filters and the possibility of contamination} and it may be best to just never change oil/filters and never take the caps off the hydro resorvoirs { unless you needed to add a bit of oil to get it to the proper level}That IS the primary reason why domestic level trans are sealed .
Idiots drop dust into the gearbox that destroys a new mower then claim warranty .
I look at the transmission & tell them it was an abuse problem but they want to do the claim just the same so off it goes to the dealer who wants $ 800 to do the preclaim evaluation ( refunded if successful ) .
Owner is now pissed, pays the money , gets their claim knocked back the joins every social media group they can heaping abuse on the mower maker & the dealer .
Most professional lawn care companies will do a proper oil change
I had a Walker in a while back with a leaking oil seal on the axel
I refused to touch it as the fill ports have sealing tape on them and have a life time warranty so I could not refill the transmission without breaking the seal and voiding the "lifetime" warranty on the box
That mower now has 3000 hrs on it, drives have never been touched
#45
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Considering the cost of a transmission yes
The frequency will depend upon your exact yard & how you use the machine
200 hrs is very conservative
If the oil looks new & fresh at 200 hrs then I would double that
If it was milky like in the video then sooner .
The frequency will depend upon your exact yard & how you use the machine
200 hrs is very conservative
If the oil looks new & fresh at 200 hrs then I would double that
If it was milky like in the video then sooner .
#46
N
NavyNancy
N
NavyNancy
Ty...so a visual inspection of the hydro oil in the reservoir, around the 200 hour mark is a good indicator of the need for changing the oil/ filters. If the oil still looks clean/ not milky in the reservoirs , then check it again around the 300-400 hr mark . In other words, do not change the hydro oil/ filters, until the look/ condition of the oil in the reservoirs indicates its time to do the service.Considering the cost of a transmission yes
The frequency will depend upon your exact yard & how you use the machine
200 hrs is very conservative
If the oil looks new & fresh at 200 hrs then I would double that
If it was milky like in the video then sooner .