Export thread

I have a plastic gas tank on a Briggs Quantum engine and the ethanol caused large gel like clumps to form in the tank. The internal screen is plugged up. I blew it out with air but that was not good enough. The gas is not flowing as it should. It is a drip. I can still see debris in there. I am soaking it in WD-40 over night but I am not confident it will be good enough. It has helped but I am wondering if anyone knows of a chemical solvent that will safely clean the screen 100% and remove all of the gel like deposits and make the tank useable again.

I have never had luck with carb or brake cleaner on this type of deposit. I find Kroil or WD-40 works better. But in this case it appears it is not good enough. So far.

Thanks.

model type and code no.

nbpt100 said:

I have a plastic gas tank on a Briggs Quantum engine and the ethanol caused large gel like clumps to form in the tank. The internal screen is plugged up. I blew it out with air but that was not good enough. The gas is not flowing as it should. It is a drip. I can still see debris in there. I am soaking it in WD-40 over night but I am not confident it will be good enough. It has helped but I am wondering if anyone knows of a chemical solvent that will safely clean the screen 100% and remove all of the gel like deposits and make the tank useable again.

I have never had luck with carb or brake cleaner on this type of deposit. I find Kroil or WD-40 works better. But in this case it appears it is not good enough. So far.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Carburetor cleaner and an air compressor blow gun. If all else fails, pull the tank screen out and install an inline fuel filter.

Hello npbt100,

Those integral filters made into the fuel tank are a very clever pain in the neck that gets a lot of good machines hauled to the scrap. (Failure by design)

To remove the gel, I suggest you use an old used cooking pan full of near boiling water and weight the tank down in it for a few minutes to dissolve and release that stuff. Then see if you can blow it clean with compressed air. It may take a couple of times, but it will work.

As for carb spray, I only recommend Berryman Chemtool B-12 spray. It is the only one left on the market that works for me.

It is not the Ethanol in the fuel.... That stuff is actually liquid silicone that a (shady) fuel distributor has bulked up the fuel volume with. When it sits, it gels up. That was a huge issue on the East coast a few years back until they tracked the source and shut them down.

Some so-called "fuel stabilizers" will also gel up, so be careful if you use that stuff. I use Star Tron these days because Stabil has been giving me problems.

Lastly, only use fuel from a corporate Shell or Exxon, not a "Mom and Pop" budget fuel source.

Bingo it is the additives that causes more problems than the ethanol. I remember back early 2000's I tried using unleaded plus [mid grade] fuel in my '79 Malibu. The darn fuel filter in the carb was constantly clogging up with a pink chalk like material. It so bad that I tools and filter in the car for replacing them. I finally got tired of the constantly changing filters I went back to just unleaded fuel.

Every so often I still see what look like small breathe mints in some carbs here.

Auto Doc's said:

Hello npbt100,

Those integral filters made into the fuel tank are a very clever pain in the neck that gets a lot of good machines hauled to the scrap. (Failure by design)

To remove the gel, I suggest you use an old used cooking pan full of near boiling water and weight the tank down in it for a few minutes to dissolve and release that stuff. Then see if you can blow it clean with compressed air. It may take a couple of times, but it will work.

As for carb spray, I only recommend Berryman Chemtool B-12 spray. It is the only one left on the market that works for me.

It is not the Ethanol in the fuel.... That stuff is actually liquid silicone that a (shady) fuel distributor has bulked up the fuel volume with. When it sits, it gels up. That was a huge issue on the East coast a few years back until they tracked the source and shut them down.

Some so-called "fuel stabilizers" will also gel up, so be careful if you use that stuff. I use Star Tron these days because Stabil has been giving me problems.

Lastly, only use fuel from a corporate Shell or Exxon, not a "Mom and Pop" budget fuel source.

Click to expand...

OK what you said makes the most sense. I have never had good success with carb or brake cleaner on ethanol related debris or this stuff that you describe as silicone like. I have never seen Berryman spray in a store around me. The chem dip I have seen, but not as of late. This debris is silicone like. It almost looks like it was vandalized. I may just replace the gas tank as this seems impossible to fully clean in any timely way. The very hot water may work but that is labor intensive to set up and babysit. Some one suggested Purple Power or super clean. I am doubtful of those based on what I have seen. I may put some in while I am out for the day and see what it is like when I get home. Heat or something very powerful like acetone seems like next approach.

What container is this in?

That my friend appears to be in-ground tank sealer that came in your fuel from an old gas station.

Yes, this means you need a new tank or a good used one if you can find one. That is not a product of Ethanol. that is in-ground storage tank sealer. There is no solvent on the open market that I know of that will break this stuff down to remove it.

Most newly built stations have been mandated to have specific in-ground tanks that are a thick wall reinforced nylon design.

Unfortunately, older stations are not required to replace their old steel in-ground tanks unless the business is sold and then it is up to the new owners to comply, or they cannot store or sell any fuel.

Older stations that still exist have sealer pumped into the outdated steel in-ground tanks to minimize ground contamination.

Ideally the gas station main fuel pump "3 stage" filters are supposed to stop this stuff from coming through the dispenser nozzle, but when the filters get plugged up, the system bypasses and that stuff gets through.

I experienced a lot of this stuff when I worked for a Ford dealership as a technician years ago. I had the task of dropping quite a few fuel tanks only to find sheets and small blobs of this stuff floating inside.

If you ever go to a gas station and the pumps are slow, don't get fuel because the system filters are in bypass mode.

nbpt100 said:

plastic gas tank on a Briggs Quantum engine and the ethanol caused large gel like clumps to form in the tank

Click to expand...

Never seen it and highly doubt it was from E-10. Could be wrong though. Happens about daily LOL.

Auto Doc's said:

What container is this in?

Click to expand...

The pic shows it in a steel pan I emptied the tank into. Is this relevant? Why are you curious?

I have never heard of the tank liner being pumped out out a gas station. But there is a first for everything.

I have no idea how this could pass through a filter of any grade. Unless, it was originally dissolved into solution and it reacted with water or an additive over time creating this rubbery or thick cottage cheese like substance. If you think about it, it would have to be over time. People pump their ODPE gas into a a smaller can at the station. They then pour it into their equipment latter that day or even months later. You would think someone would see these solid pieces in the gas. It could even clog the nozzel on the gas can creating a huge red flag.

I do not know the history of this mower. It was just given to me. It certainly appears it has been sitting for some time.

nbpt100 said:

The pic shows it in a steel pan I emptied the tank into. Is this relevant? Why are you curious?

I have never heard of the tank liner being pumped out out a gas station. But there is a first for everything.

I have no idea how this could pass through a filter of any grade. Unless, it was originally dissolved into solution and it reacted with water or an additive over time creating this rubbery or thick cottage cheese like substance. If you think about it, it would have to be over time. People pump their ODPE gas into a a smaller can at the station. They then pour it into their equipment latter that day or even months later. You would think someone would see these solid pieces in the gas. It could even clog the nozzel on the gas can creating a huge red flag.

I do not know the history of this mower. It was just given to me. It certainly appears it has been sitting for some time.

Click to expand...

The texture of the pan did not look familiar to me, that what aroused the curiosity.

It is not a "tank liner", but a sealer that has been pumped into a very old ground storage tank.

The appearance reminds me of Latex paint that someone has tried to mix with turpentine solvent... very messy combination.

slomo said:

Never seen it and highly doubt it was from E-10. Could be wrong though. Happens about daily LOL.

Click to expand...

I have never seen this either. I have seen plenty of carbs that are gummed up or full of dried whitish stuff. I have been looking into what to do and some have posted on other tractor forums that E15 can dissolve this stuff created from E10. I am not sure if they are reffering to the same substance I have. It is hard to tell. I do not know if this is some wives tale or if their is any truth to it.

Where I live only E10 is available at gas stations. I have never in a decade or more seen E0 at the pump. I have never seen E15. So my conclusion is, it must be E10. Unless the gas was transported from hundreds of miles away where another type of gas may be sold. This is a mystery. I have never seen anything exactly like this.

nbpt100 said:

I have never seen this either. I have seen plenty of carbs that are gummed up or full of dried whitish stuff. I have been looking into what to do and some have posted on other tractor forums that E15 can dissolve this stuff created from E10. I am not sure if they are reffering to the same substance I have. It is hard to tell. I do not know if this is some wives tale or if their is any truth to it.

Where I live only E10 is available at gas stations. I have never in a decade or more seen E0 at the pump. I have never seen E15. So my conclusion is, it must be E10. Unless the gas was transported from hundreds of miles away where another type of gas may be sold. This is a mystery. I have never seen anything exactly like this.

Click to expand...

That "whitish stuff" is mostly cast aluminum deteriorating from Ethanol fuel exposure. Ethanol fuel is hygroscopic because it draws in moisture from the air. Aluminum is a self-sacrificial metal that forms a white coating when exposed to moisture unless it has a high Nickel content. Carburetors have very little Nickel blended with the aluminum when cast.

Some of this stuff is also specialty additives that are blended in the fuel during the refining process.

The stuff you are showing was not created by E10 or any other fuel, it was carried by it when pumped from a bad ground storage tank with sealer that has been added as I have explained already. It could have also came from a contaminated tanker load that was off loaded at an unsuspecting station.

You would have to actually locate the fuel tanker depot supplier or a refinery level technician before you might get lucky enough to find someone who knows what this stuff is. Most will play ignorant until it gets bad enough to end up in court.

Ground tank contamination is real but kept well hidden. Rural areas usually suffer the most.

Auto Doc's said:

That "whitish stuff" is mostly cast aluminum deteriorating from Ethanol fuel exposure. Ethanol fuel is hygroscopic because it draws in moisture from the air. Aluminum is a self-sacrificial metal that forms a white coating when exposed to moisture unless it has a high Nickel content. Carburetors have very little Nickel blended with the aluminum when cast.

Some of this stuff is also specialty additives that are blended in the fuel during the refining process.

The stuff you are showing was not created by E10 or any other fuel, it was carried by it when pumped from a bad ground storage tank with sealer that has been added as I have explained already. It could have also came from a contaminated tanker load that was off loaded at an unsuspecting station.

You would have to actually locate the fuel tanker depot supplier or a refinery level technician before you might get lucky enough to find someone who knows what this stuff is. Most will play ignorant until it gets bad enough to end up in court.

Ground tank contamination is real but kept well hidden. Rural areas usually suffer the most.

Click to expand...

Ethanol is blamed for many fuel related issues in small engines. In reality, poor storage of fuel and putting up equipment long term with no use in between improperly , is the actual problem. I see lots of water in fuel from customers that say they use ethanol free fuel.

I buy carburetor cleaner by the case and use it daily. Regardless of brand, carburetor cleaner is essentially acetone, with other chemicals. Couldn’t do my job without it.

Tiger Small Engine said:

I buy carburetor cleaner by the case and use it daily. Regardless of brand, carburetor cleaner is essentially acetone, with other chemicals. Couldn’t do my job without it.

Click to expand...

Hmmm I haven't had any carb cleaner in the shop in over 12 yrs. Matter of fact I gave away my last can of Berryman 11 yrs ago; never opened it. Yet I still clean carbs weekly. I got more two cubes to do today.

I find brake cleaner works pretty good and is usually cheaper than Carb cleaner but not always. Either Carb or Brake cleaner does not attack the ethanol+water related debris very well. Soaking in Kroil or WD-40 from a few minutes to over night. A final clean up with the brake or carb cleaner seems to be the process I use if I do not go to the Ultra sonic cleaner.

Yea, water in the gas is just bad. Does not matter how fancy of a machine you have. E0 gas is better , but, if there is water in the tank it almost does not matter. Time to dump it or get the K100 out.

Back to the original topic. I seemed to be able to clean it out with straight Super Clean soaking for about 7 hours and then multiple flushes (5 or more, I did not count) with high pressure water and compressed air. What ever that stuff was, it was the obvious reason the owner gave up on this mower.