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Hello,

I am bidding on a property that is about 3/4 acre. It's all flat except at the ends there are some good slopes. Nothing a 48" can't handle There are also quite a few trees and flower beds (around 15 obstacles). I was wondering if anyone could let me know how much time it would take me to trim and mow this size property? I know there are a lot of variables, but I have never mowed with a 48" mower before and I want to get the best bid possible to get this account.

Mowing time would be around 15 min. Trimming and blowing is a different question and no way to tell without seeing it.

BlazNT said:

Mowing time would be around 15 min. Trimming and blowing is a different question and no way to tell without seeing it.

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WB walk behind ? 15 min. now that would be moving right along?

Thanks! I am guessing about 15-20 minutes of trimming. So, I could be able to do it in around 40-45 minutes with blowing (not much blowing).

I didn't know my mower could cut that much in so little time.

reynoldston said:

WB walk behind ? 15 min. now that would be moving right along?

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Brand new Ferris FW35 with Sulky. It can roll I do have to say.

reynoldston said:

WB walk behind ? 15 min. now that would be moving right along?

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Sorry I did no see the giant WB. If you don't have a sulky doubly that time.

BlazNT said:

Sorry I did no see the giant WB. If you don't have a sulky doubly that time.

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Yeah I was gonna say about 25-30 mins of mowing.

It has a Sulky! So, I should be around 15-20 minutes.

I would play it safe and go with 20 minutes.

My Ferris is a 61in. rider and it takes me to do 1 acre 20 to 30 minuets. Depending on conditions, but I am cutting grass for myself and not for money. I don't know how fast my mower travels but its a lot faster then I can walk., never tried it but I think it would be more like a run then a walk. Just saying 15 min. to do 3/4 acre with a 48" WB you will be moving right along. Not saying it can't be done??? They tell me that the new Ferris dose travel a little faster then my older one but mine goes at a good clip. I have also been told that if you slow down a little your mower dose a better mowing.

I appreciate the input guys!

The mower's maximum speed is 7 MPH. That is only a few miles slower than a Z. I won't be walking thanks to the sulky!

Lawnboy18 said:

Hello,

I am bidding on a property that is about 3/4 acre. It's all flat except at the ends there are some good slopes. Nothing a 48" can't handle There are also quite a few trees and flower beds (around 15 obstacles). I was wondering if anyone could let me know how much time it would take me to trim and mow this size property? I know there are a lot of variables, but I have never mowed with a 48" mower before and I want to get the best bid possible to get this account.

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The best bid possible or the right bid. Your looking at the going rate for lawncare which is basically $1.00 a minute so if the job will take 30 to 45 minutes your looking at $30 to $45 a cut minimum. The problem you have bidding on a job is someone really wanting the job will always say or bid less than the job is worth. If you can't make a dollar a minute minimum the job isn't worth doing.

I agree with Ric. As I tell anyone I'm bidding a job for when they ask for a lower price. Lower price requires a lower quality job and I just can't do a lower quality job. That way if they go with a lower bid they kind of know what they are getting.

I know about the pricing thing. I just want the most accurate bid possible (don't want to overbid, nor underbid), but I have a feeling a low baller will roll in since the person is getting multiple estimates done. I hate it when they do that. They just take the cheapest.

Lawnboy18 said:

I know about the pricing thing. I just want the most accurate bid possible (don't want to overbid, nor underbid), but I have a feeling a low baller will roll in since the person is getting multiple estimates done. I hate it when they do that. They just take the cheapest.

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That's the reason I stayed with the residential jobs. Bid jobs can make you great money but you can also lose big money. You can't adjust your life style with those kinda jobs because you can lose to much money at one time.

Ric said:

That's the reason I stayed with the residential jobs. Bid jobs can make you great money but you can also lose big money. You can't adjust your life style with those kinda jobs because you can lose to much money at one time.

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Very true. I sometimes feel like bidding it a little on the low side to get it and learn (I have never mowed big yards with the right mowers). But, on the other hand, it is a matter of self respect. Not charging enough will hurt me more than do me any good. I will keep on marketing in high end residential. Got 500 door hagners almost ready to go.

Lawnboy18 said:

Very true. I sometimes feel like bidding it a little on the low side to get it and learn (I have never mowed big yards with the right mowers). But, on the other hand, it is a matter of self respect. Not charging enough will hurt me more than do me any good. I will keep on marketing in high end residential. Got 500 door hangers almost ready to go.

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Not charging enough doesn't necessarily hurt you. You really need to charge some where in the vicinity of what your area or location can handle. Just be competitive with the businesses that are there already. It's funny how some guys look at pricing a lawn cut. I know guys that judge a price for a lawn cut by what type of car they see in a driveway or how many cars they have in a drive or how nice a home a person has and it's really ridiculous.

Ric said:

Not charging enough doesn't necessarily hurt you. You really need to charge some where in the vicinity of what your area or location can handle. Just be competitive with the businesses that are there already. It's funny how some guys look at pricing a lawn cut. I know guys that judge a price for a lawn cut by what type of car they see in a driveway or how many cars they have in a drive or how nice a home a person has and it's really ridiculous.

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It's hard to charge in the vicinity when we are flooded with low ballers.

I price according to the lawn and conditions. Not the car, house, etc. I distribute flyers in high end residential because I get more work out there.

Lawnboy18 said:

It's hard to charge in the vicinity when we are flooded with low ballers.

I price according to the lawn and conditions. Not the car, house, etc. I distribute flyers in high end residential because I get more work out there.

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That's the problem with the Lawncare business. Too many beer drinkin lowballers. I never really found a way around them and they give the legit guys a bad name. I see them here also and the guys that are trying to make an honest living and that are established don't really get hurt, it's the guys that are trying to get established that bare the brunt. Hopefully your Higher end neighborhoods will pan out but the lowballers are there also. Hopefuuly you can be there to fix things after the lowballers screw things up.

I have found that low ballers are not a problem in high end neighborhoods.

Around here and probably in many other places low ballers are all over the place. As stated, a lot work for weed and beer money. They are everywhere. Even in the high end neighborhoods. Let's not forget that some people got rich by dealing with cheap people and ripping off others. The other massive problem around here is the cash guys. They want cash only and don't charge the sales tax. They can charge less also since they don't declare ther income.

Yes, I do clean up after the low ballers. It happens a lot that a client tells me that the previous one never came weekly. Only every 10-14 days. I come every week the same day at around the same time. Clients appreciate this and like it a lot. They pay for quality and service and that is how I am positionned. I try to respect the market prices, but I do respect my own prices also. I try my best, but this year is hard I find. A lot of low ballers including one big one. We are talking 12$/cut for 10 000 square feet. Thankfully my client stayed with me because of my good service.

By the way, I submitted my bid to the condo association. Will get news in about 10 days.

When I say high end I am saying 500 grand and up.
I did yards in the country club of the south.
Had to get approved threw the HOA
Every crew member had to pass a background check.

Mowing bids are like carpentry bids and waiters getting tips.

If they do research or know people who have great lawns and landscaping, check it out and find what others would charge.
Do an immaculate job at the same time like you said you do. These are the people that will tip you in "personal" cash. You would be surprised
They want a better looking lawn than their friends, aka practice pretty mowing patterns on larger lawns.

Unless the scrappers who pay s*%# do not care about their lawn, and you can do it fast, do it. Doing a large lawn = more time mowing and less unloading and loading and vehicle gas.
I do not know where you live, that really helps to know a common rate.

Businesses are good money of course, but that just takes persistence.

I finally got a job at a state college and that is just guaranteed money.
I wish I had a solid number for what to charge, but location and what you are mowing and for whom matters a lot. aim for below $20 though. Mowing slow makes a great lawn They love that hehehe

Carscw said:

When I say high end I am saying 500 grand and up.
I did yards in the country club of the south.
Had to get approved threw the HOA
Every crew member had to pass a background check.

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I do some 500 000$ homes. Not background checks here. Canada is a little more loose

ingigo said:

Mowing bids are like carpentry bids and waiters getting tips.

If they do research or know people who have great lawns and landscaping, check it out and find what others would charge.
Do an immaculate job at the same time like you said you do. These are the people that will tip you in "personal" cash. You would be surprised
They want a better looking lawn than their friends, aka practice pretty mowing patterns on larger lawns.

Unless the scrappers who pay s*%# do not care about their lawn, and you can do it fast, do it. Doing a large lawn = more time mowing and less unloading and loading and vehicle gas.
I do not know where you live, that really helps to know a common rate.

Businesses are good money of course, but that just takes persistence.

I finally got a job at a state college and that is just guaranteed money.
I wish I had a solid number for what to charge, but location and what you are mowing and for whom matters a lot. aim for below $20 though. Mowing slow makes a great lawn They love that hehehe

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Very true! Hard work pays off! My clients love my work!

What do you mean by below 20$?

Lawnboy18 said:

I do some 500 000$ homes. Not background checks here. Canada is a little more loose



Very true! Hard work pays off! My clients love my work!

What do you mean by below 20$?

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We have 500K homes here in most sub-divisions and most are sitting on a quarter acre or less and take like 20 minutes or less to mow,trim,edge and blow off less than 5000 sq.ft. lots and we get $20 to $25 a cut on those. If you weren't mowing 3 or 4 of those in an hour your considered slow.

With statements like ( aiming for below $20 though and mowing slow makes a great lawn ) he must not be a real business cause he sure isn't making any money at that rate.

Ric said:

With statements like ( aiming for below $20 though and mowing slow makes a great lawn ) he must not be a real business cause he sure isn't making any money at that rate.

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I with you on that. Im hoping it was a typo. I have one job that I get $20 for(Mother of a friend). I curse that yard every time I mow it. It only takes me 27 min to mow trim and blow but it just pisses me off every time I mow it so cheap. I think of it this way. That is $10 a week x 32 weeks = $320 I am missing out on.

BlazNT said:

I with you on that. Im hoping it was a typo. I have one job that I get $20 for(Mother of a friend). I curse that yard every time I mow it. It only takes me 27 min to mow trim and blow but it just pisses me off every time I mow it so cheap. I think of it this way. That is $10 a week x 32 weeks = $320 I am missing out on.

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I really don't think it's a typo with the mowing slow makes a great lawn thing. If your in business and your not making at least 1K a week before expenses your not making any money.

Ric said:

We have 500K homes here in most sub-divisions and most are sitting on a quarter acre or less and take like 20 minutes or less to mow,trim,edge and blow off less than 5000 sq.ft. lots and we get $20 to $25 a cut on those. If you weren't mowing 3 or 4 of those in an hour your considered slow.

With statements like ( aiming for below $20 though and mowing slow makes a great lawn ) he must not be a real business cause he sure isn't making any money at that rate.

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Yea, on this street I drop and do 4 lawns. I do about 100$ in 2 hours. That is mowing, trimming, blowing and walking in between each house with a 30" mower. Imagine when I will whip out the 48" on some of these. I am doing pretty good.

Lawnboy18 said:

Yea, on this street I drop and do 4 lawns. I do about 100$ in 2 hours. That is mowing, trimming, blowing and walking in between each house with a 30" mower. Imagine when I will whip out the 48" on some of these. I am doing pretty good.

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The problem you'll have with the 48" is that your going to miss a lot of lawn that you got with the 30" and you'll end up spending a little more time trimming, but you should make that time up hopefully with the 48". You should be able to hit 20 minutes a lawn with the 48" that's 3 lawns an hour without a problem.

True, but some of these yards it's simply trim around the house and a few trees. It will all work out. All in all I am pretty sure the 48 will save me some time and make me do more lawns in a day.

Lawnboy18 said:

True, but some of these yards it's simply trim around the house and a few trees. It will all work out. All in all I am pretty sure the 48 will save me some time and make me do more lawns in a day.

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Once you get to know the mower you'll be surprised how much time it will save you per lawn. Your productivity will be over twice that of your 30". The 48" is a perfect size for most any lawns. I wondered when I purchased my Grandstand 36" if I was making a good choice but its productivity is great, I can go places the 48" can't and mow lawns with it that I'd never put the 48" on to. You'll be happy with your choice.

I am sure it will save me loads of time on those 5000 square feet lawns and up. I can also use it on some front lawns where it fits to save time and have a nice cut.

All in all it is a very nice machine. Can't wait to try it out.

I sometimes wonder how fast is a 36 compared to a 30". A lot debate on this and some are selling there 36 and get a 30" instead.

Lawnboy18 said:

I am sure it will save me loads of time on those 5000 square feet lawns and up. I can also use it on some front lawns where it fits to save time and have a nice cut.

All in all it is a very nice machine. Can't wait to try it out.

I sometimes wonder how fast is a 36 compared to a 30". A lot debate on this and some are selling there 36 and get a 30" instead.

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It depends on the 36". You can debate it all you want and I know your not going to agree. I sold a or my 36" WB and purchased the 30" Turf-Master. The productivity between a 36" WB vs a 30" Turf-Master wasn't and isn't going to be that much different except for what little you get in cutting width.

Now when Your talking about a 36" stander like the Grandstand though there's no comparison, it will be faster than both the others and more productive because of the areas of use like getting through back yards gates and mowing slopes etc. Less trips to the trailer.

The Toro Grandstand 36" is Toro's best selling and most popular stander. They sell more of the 36" than any other model in the stander series. You have to consider that the Grandstand is basically a ZTR but are better built than 90% of the ZTR mowers out there, that's the reason they carry a 5yr 1200 hour warranty.

There is no way I would do any yard for $25
Around here that's way to low even for a 1/4 acre lot I start at $40
The guys that think speed makes them the most money are low ballers that do a half *** job. We take our time and do a perfect job. And still only work 5 days a week doing 100 yards.
A 1/4 acre lot always gets done with a push mower. Makes the yard look so much cleaner.

Ric said:

It depends on the 36". You can debate it all you want and I know your not going to agree. I sold a or my 36" WB and purchased the 30" Turf-Master. The productivity between a 36" WB vs a 30" Turf-Master wasn't and isn't going to be that much different except for what little you get in cutting width.

Now when Your talking about a 36" stander like the Grandstand though there's no comparison, it will be faster than both the others and more productive because of the areas of use like getting through back yards gates and mowing slopes etc. Less trips to the trailer.

The Toro Grandstand 36" is Toro's best selling and most popular stander. They sell more of the 36" than any other model in the stander series. You have to consider that the Grandstand is basically a ZTR but are better built than 90% of the ZTR mowers out there, that's the reason they carry a 5yr 1200 hour warranty.

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I agree with you! I almost got a stander, but wanted a WB for extreme slopes (more control) and they didn't have the model I wanted in 48".

Carscw said:

There is no way I would do any yard for $25
Around here that's way to low even for a 1/4 acre lot I start at $40
The guys that think speed makes them the most money are low ballers that do a half *** job. We take our time and do a perfect job. And still only work 5 days a week doing 100 yards.
A 1/4 acre lot always gets done with a push mower. Makes the yard look so much cleaner.

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Different areas = different market. I do a good job and you know it. I don't mow many 1/4 acre lots. All very small lots around here.
In my dreams, I would only cut acreage lots, but I have to work on that. A completely different market.
I don't want to be super fast nor spuper slow. I want to be efficient. Once a company finds it's efficiency, it can roll. Clients like that also. They want a job well done, but want you to also not be super slow.

Carscw said:

There is no way I would do any yard for $25
Around here that's way to low even for a 1/4 acre lot I start at $40
The guys that think speed makes them the most money are low ballers that do a half *** job. We take our time and do a perfect job. And still only work 5 days a week doing 100 yards.
A 1/4 acre lot always gets done with a push mower. Makes the yard look so much cleaner.

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I agree with Lawnboy18....different areas are different markets. Some places $25 a yard is high, all depends on location, so it doesn't necessarily make you a lowballer. You can say what you like but the lowballers keep the business honest and affordable and like it or not they are your competition.
I really think in a lot of ways the guys that charge the high prices hurt the business as much as what you call lowballers do because the high price guys actually dictate the prices the so called lowballers have to charge to get into the business.
Determining whether you have a successful lawn-care business or not isn't determined by how much money you make but whether or not you've succeeded in accomplishing the goals you set out to accomplish for the business at the price or money you want to make regardless of the charge.

Ric, let's not mix the low ballers and the ones that actually charge the market price. The low ballers hurt the industry. They lower the prices and they can do it for many reasons (don't pay taxes, beer, drugs, don't care, etc.). The ones charging the market price are fine. The ones that charge more because they offer something better (good service, etc.) is also fine. Now, the ones that charge a lot and just suck, that is another story.

Lawnboy18 said:

Ric, let's not mix the low ballers and the ones that actually charge the market price. The low ballers hurt the industry. They lower the prices and they can do it for many reasons (don't pay taxes, beer, drugs, don't care, etc.). The ones charging the market price are fine. The ones that charge more because they offer something better (good service, etc.) is also fine. Now, the ones that charge a lot and just suck, that is another story.

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I guess tit depends on your definition of lowballer. What you describe as the guy who (don't have a license or pay taxes, beer, drugs, don't care, etc.) I consider a hack not a lowballer.
A lowballer on the other hand to me is a licensed operator that shows up with maybe a 42" Toro Timecutter, one weed trimmer that he uses for both edging and trimming and a hand held blower. Now seeing this individual and what he is trying to accomplish with the equipment he has how is he supposed to compete with a guy with a big trailer with multiple ztr mowers, multiple push mowers, multiples on every piece of hand held equipment imaginable, ready to undertake any job imaginable.......So how does he compete against the guy with the bigger business? Simple, $10 and $12 lawn cuts, that's the reality of the business, it's a constant battle, it's a game that can only be played and never won.

Ric said:

I guess tit depends on your definition of lowballer. What you describe as the guy who (don't have a license or pay taxes, beer, drugs, don't care, etc.) I consider a hack not a lowballer. A lowballer on the other hand to me is a licensed operator that shows up with maybe a 42" Toro Timecutter, one weed trimmer that he uses for both edging and trimming and a hand held blower. Now seeing this individual and what he is trying to accomplish with the equipment he has how is he supposed to compete with a guy with a big trailer with multiple ztr mowers, multiple push mowers, multiples on every piece of hand held equipment imaginable, ready to undertake any job imaginable.......So how does he compete against the guy with the bigger business? Simple, $10 and $12 lawn cuts, that's the reality of the business, it's a constant battle, it's a game that can only be played and never won.

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I love showing your comments to my buddy's.
I paid $3000 cash for my toro 4 years ago.
Still rides and cuts perfect.
My average daily operating cost last year was $21.00 a day. That includes maintaining equipment. And gas.
That's around a $670 profit per day.
No truck or equipment or house payments.
Heck I don't even have a credit card.

The only need to ever carry 4 trimmers or edgers is just to say you have them.
If the big money mowers you buy are so great why do you trade them for new ones?
I like how you talk about mowers you know nothing about. Saying a mower is good because it has lasted you 3 years with less than 800 hours on it. Don't make it a good mower. It just means you never use it.

Ric said:

I guess tit depends on your definition of lowballer. What you describe as the guy who (don't have a license or pay taxes, beer, drugs, don't care, etc.) I consider a hack not a lowballer.
A lowballer on the other hand to me is a licensed operator that shows up with maybe a 42" Toro Timecutter, one weed trimmer that he uses for both edging and trimming and a hand held blower. Now seeing this individual and what he is trying to accomplish with the equipment he has how is he supposed to compete with a guy with a big trailer with multiple ztr mowers, multiple push mowers, multiples on every piece of hand held equipment imaginable, ready to undertake any job imaginable.......So how does he compete against the guy with the bigger business? Simple, $10 and $12 lawn cuts, that's the reality of the business, it's a constant battle, it's a game that can only be played and never won.

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I get that, but to me there is this minimum to respect. It costs something to operate and you need to make enough money to be able to buy new equipment once your equipment is finished, pay your gas, insurance, repairs, etc.

Carscw said:

I love showing your comments to my buddy's.
I paid $3000 cash for my toro 4 years ago.
Still rides and cuts perfect.
My average daily operating cost last year was $21.00 a day. That includes maintaining equipment. And gas.
That's around a $670 profit per day.
No truck or equipment or house payments.
Heck I don't even have a credit card.

The only need to ever carry 4 trimmers or edgers is just to say you have them.
If the big money mowers you buy are so great why do you trade them for new ones?
I like how you talk about mowers you know nothing about. Saying a mower is good because it has lasted you 3 years with less than 800 hours on it. Don't make it a good mower. It just means you never use it.

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House payments don't have much to do with this. Even tho your truck is paid for, you will need another one some day and you need to maintain it. That all factors in your variable and fixed costs. That trailer also will need repairs and need to be replaced some day. Even tho you can do your repairs yourself and get a trailer for cheap, you still have to consider this in your costs. Depreciation. Any ways, I am sure you are making good money. Just a thought.

Lawnboy18 said:

I get that, but to me there is this minimum to respect. It costs something to operate and you need to make enough money to be able to buy new equipment once your equipment is finished, pay your gas, insurance, repairs, etc.

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I agree with covering the overhead and the bigger you are the more overhead you have. With someone with minimal equipment like someone that I described they don't have much to cover and the fact there not running the commercial grade stuff it's cheaper to maintain and those are just some of the reason they can charge minimal prices.

Very true. All tho, he needs to think ahead. It's hard to raise prices on clients. Better off starting to charge a little more than what you think.

It all depends upon how desperate one is to get some money.
No matter what, there will always be some one willing to do the job just a little cheaper.
And there will always be some one only willing to pay a cheaper price.
If you ignore the 200 totally incorrect assumptions that the whole "free market" economy theory is based on, this is what is supposed to deliver the best value to the end customer and keep prices in check.
The customer just wants their lawns mowed and if the operator is silly enough to do if for $ 5.00/hr then it is of no consequence to them.
And if the other operators stick to their floor prices , it is of no consequence to them either.
Eventually the underpriced operators go out of business or have heart attacks or get a bank roll and up their prices.
However there will always be some one with an overdue mortage payment, new baby, big fine , etc etc etc, hanging over their heads who will sacrifice to get the few extra dollars.

I just sold a mower before coming in for a late lunch to person who lives up the road and has been getting their grass cut by a contractor $ 100 for 1/2 acre clean space.
The last 3 times they did not take the grass away or spred the clippings leaving them in windrows so the customer popped in & bought a $ 500 28" RER with mulching deck.
That is how easy it is to loose a customer.
Most of the other contractors charge around $ 150 to mulch or $ 200 to mow & clear so the $ 100 was not unreasonable but they had given the customer unrealistic expectations and when not met, he acted.

Underpriced operators can hang around for a while sometimes around here. It's called not paying taxes.