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Electrical Problem?
#1
E
errn12
E
errn12
First, let me say I am not a mechanic nor am I very mechanically inclined.
I recently replaced the blade bearing assemblies (2) on my mower deck. I have no idea what they are called but it is the piece that the pulley wheel attaches to on one end and the blade on the other. Once I got the mower back together, it would not crank--not even a sound. I thought maybe my 2 yr old battery so I replaced. That did nothing. I will put what I have tried but please don't judge my lack of proper terminology. I can fix people a lot easier than machines.
Turning the ignition switch does nothing. With the switch on, I "closed" solenoid with screwdriver and the motor will turn but will not crank. Took plug wire loose and checked for arc. Plug wire is getting fire. I replaced ignition switch with new one. I have checked switch plugs on seat switch and blade engage lever and parking brake. There is no tension on the cable that engages the blade. I read that there was a fuse on the small red wire between the solenoid and the switch or either over the back right wheel near the battery. I found both wires but did not find a fuse...there was a place where 2 wires joined on both of them but no fuse there. It seems odd that simply dropping the deck off would create this kind of problem. I am desperate for help. I push mowed 2 acres this past weekend. Cannot handle that again and really want to get a few more years out of this mower. It seems like it should be a simple thing.
I recently replaced the blade bearing assemblies (2) on my mower deck. I have no idea what they are called but it is the piece that the pulley wheel attaches to on one end and the blade on the other. Once I got the mower back together, it would not crank--not even a sound. I thought maybe my 2 yr old battery so I replaced. That did nothing. I will put what I have tried but please don't judge my lack of proper terminology. I can fix people a lot easier than machines.
Turning the ignition switch does nothing. With the switch on, I "closed" solenoid with screwdriver and the motor will turn but will not crank. Took plug wire loose and checked for arc. Plug wire is getting fire. I replaced ignition switch with new one. I have checked switch plugs on seat switch and blade engage lever and parking brake. There is no tension on the cable that engages the blade. I read that there was a fuse on the small red wire between the solenoid and the switch or either over the back right wheel near the battery. I found both wires but did not find a fuse...there was a place where 2 wires joined on both of them but no fuse there. It seems odd that simply dropping the deck off would create this kind of problem. I am desperate for help. I push mowed 2 acres this past weekend. Cannot handle that again and really want to get a few more years out of this mower. It seems like it should be a simple thing.
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
OK Ern.
We need a lot more information in order to give you good information.
Start with the make model & serial number of your mower off the tag under the seat
It will help both you & us if you go to the Ariens / Gravely web site and download the parts book for your mower
Thus we will all be singing from the same song sheet.
Remember you have the mower in front of you & we have nothing but words on a screen.
Also describe exactly what you hear, see, feel & smell when you try to start the mower.
Sit in it and turn all the switches on & off so they are all in the proper position to start the mower.
Very common for a mower that stops when mowing to be left with the blades engaged so it won't start.
We need a lot more information in order to give you good information.
Start with the make model & serial number of your mower off the tag under the seat
It will help both you & us if you go to the Ariens / Gravely web site and download the parts book for your mower
Thus we will all be singing from the same song sheet.
Remember you have the mower in front of you & we have nothing but words on a screen.
Also describe exactly what you hear, see, feel & smell when you try to start the mower.
Sit in it and turn all the switches on & off so they are all in the proper position to start the mower.
Very common for a mower that stops when mowing to be left with the blades engaged so it won't start.
#3
S
shiftsuper175607
Not to be critical but some of your description is confusing and contradictory.
If the engine is turning over...it is cranking...cranking comes from way back when... they had a crank handle on front of the car to turn over the engine.
If the engine is turning over (cranking) and has fire (you said it did)...it should start...unless it has no fuel.
You can spray a shot of starting fluid in unchoked carb inlet and it should fire off.
There is a fuel shut off solenoid on bottom of carburetor on some engines...if you have one you should hear it click or feel it with you finger when you turn key to "run" position. Make sure wires are connected to it.
When ignition switch is turned to "start" (if all safety conditions are met the solenoid gets power to small terminal to close it and energize starter.
To sum it all up...I'm not real sure of your problem(s) but there are some ideas.
S
shiftsuper175607
First, let me say I am not a mechanic nor am I very mechanically inclined.
I recently replaced the blade bearing assemblies (2) on my mower deck. I have no idea what they are called but it is the piece that the pulley wheel attaches to on one end and the blade on the other. Once I got the mower back together, it would not crank--not even a sound. I thought maybe my 2 yr old battery so I replaced. That did nothing. I will put what I have tried but please don't judge my lack of proper terminology. I can fix people a lot easier than machines.
Turning the ignition switch does nothing. With the switch on, I "closed" solenoid with screwdriver and the motor will turn but will not crank. Took plug wire loose and checked for arc. Plug wire is getting fire. I replaced ignition switch with new one. I have checked switch plugs on seat switch and blade engage lever and parking brake. There is no tension on the cable that engages the blade. I read that there was a fuse on the small red wire between the solenoid and the switch or either over the back right wheel near the battery. I found both wires but did not find a fuse...there was a place where 2 wires joined on both of them but no fuse there. It seems odd that simply dropping the deck off would create this kind of problem. I am desperate for help. I push mowed 2 acres this past weekend. Cannot handle that again and really want to get a few more years out of this mower. It seems like it should be a simple thing.
Not to be critical but some of your description is confusing and contradictory.
If the engine is turning over...it is cranking...cranking comes from way back when... they had a crank handle on front of the car to turn over the engine.
If the engine is turning over (cranking) and has fire (you said it did)...it should start...unless it has no fuel.
You can spray a shot of starting fluid in unchoked carb inlet and it should fire off.
There is a fuel shut off solenoid on bottom of carburetor on some engines...if you have one you should hear it click or feel it with you finger when you turn key to "run" position. Make sure wires are connected to it.
When ignition switch is turned to "start" (if all safety conditions are met the solenoid gets power to small terminal to close it and energize starter.
To sum it all up...I'm not real sure of your problem(s) but there are some ideas.
#4
E
errn12
E
errn12
Ariens 2010 960460001 42" gear drive with Kohler 18hp. I have had the lawnmower for 8 years now and am very familiar with it. Just to make sure that I wasn't having a senior moment, I had my wife sit in it and try. When I attempt to start the mower with the key, I see hear and smell absolutely nothing except the mosquito buzzing around my ear.
As I mentioned, my terminology may not just that of a mechanic--but in my defense, I did not say it was turning over..I said it was turning. The engine turns trying to crank only when closing the solenoid with the screwdriver. It does not appear that the fuel solenoid is engaging. I'm guessing that has to do with the same reason why the main solenoid will not engage with the ignition switch.
As I mentioned, my terminology may not just that of a mechanic--but in my defense, I did not say it was turning over..I said it was turning. The engine turns trying to crank only when closing the solenoid with the screwdriver. It does not appear that the fuel solenoid is engaging. I'm guessing that has to do with the same reason why the main solenoid will not engage with the ignition switch.
#5
S
shiftsuper175607
As I said...not trying to be critical...just trying to understand your problems
If you jump a screw driver across the solenoid...a good battery will spin that motor very fast. ( If not...there a battery problem)
If you have fire (you said you did) then...
Take off air filter cover and spray some (not too much)starting fluid in carb inlet...
It should start!!!!!!!!!!! It may not run but a few seconds.
If you want to try that....I will be looking for your reply.
Good luck
S
shiftsuper175607
Ariens 2010 960460001 42" gear drive with Kohler 18hp. I have had the lawnmower for 8 years now and am very familiar with it. Just to make sure that I wasn't having a senior moment, I had my wife sit in it and try. When I attempt to start the mower with the key, I see hear and smell absolutely nothing except the mosquito buzzing around my ear.
As I mentioned, my terminology may not just that of a mechanic--but in my defense, I did not say it was turning over..I said it was turning. The engine turns trying to crank only when closing the solenoid with the screwdriver. It does not appear that the fuel solenoid is engaging. I'm guessing that has to do with the same reason why the main solenoid will not engage with the ignition switch.
As I said...not trying to be critical...just trying to understand your problems
If you jump a screw driver across the solenoid...a good battery will spin that motor very fast. ( If not...there a battery problem)
If you have fire (you said you did) then...
Take off air filter cover and spray some (not too much)starting fluid in carb inlet...
It should start!!!!!!!!!!! It may not run but a few seconds.
If you want to try that....I will be looking for your reply.
Good luck
#6
E
errn12
E
errn12
I haven't needed starting fluid since I sold the '86 Chevette! I will pick up some tomorrow and give it a try. Will post how it goes. Thanks.
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
If the engine will not turn over ( crank ) with the key switch then you have electrical problems
1) swat that mossie so you can hear and turn the key on and off a few times
listen to the solenoid under the carb, you should hear it turning on & off.
If the ears are not as sharp as they used to be put your finger on it , you should be able to feel it activating and if the hands are like mine old & calloused from years of honest hard work then you can try your tounge or some other part of you anatomy that is very sensitive to the touch :laughing::laughing::laughing:
If nothing then the heavy red wire that comes from the battery will bolt on to terminal with a thin wire.\
Follow that wire and you will come to a fuse, replace it even if it looks good and try again.
1) swat that mossie so you can hear and turn the key on and off a few times
listen to the solenoid under the carb, you should hear it turning on & off.
If the ears are not as sharp as they used to be put your finger on it , you should be able to feel it activating and if the hands are like mine old & calloused from years of honest hard work then you can try your tounge or some other part of you anatomy that is very sensitive to the touch :laughing::laughing::laughing:
If nothing then the heavy red wire that comes from the battery will bolt on to terminal with a thin wire.\
Follow that wire and you will come to a fuse, replace it even if it looks good and try again.
#8
BlazNT
BlazNT
I use a small diameter dowl rod touching the carb them my ear. It is amazing how well you can hear that way.
#9
C
ccheatha
C
ccheatha
It really sounds an awful lot like your mower thinks the blades are engaged. Since you were working in that area, that's logical to me. You should be able to trace the yellow wire around the mower to all the switches, but I'd suspect that the PTO switch is not engaging.
BTW, I really like this guy's troubleshooting steps when tracing electrical problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8m88LawN0I&t=10s
BTW, I really like this guy's troubleshooting steps when tracing electrical problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8m88LawN0I&t=10s
#10
B
bertsmobile1
One would have thought that Sears would have at least picked a mower with good crimps on the wires.
Those are pretty bad.
I really hate professional videos that are only 1/2 done .
So he tested each of the switches that Sears sells but failed to test the wiring between the key switch & the brake switch and the brake switch & the PTO switch.
Measuring resistance is always problematic particularly on old mowers with a healthy oxide layer on the terminals.
This is why when I go through these proceedure I ask people to jump the B & S terminals on the key switch plug then check for voltage.
This is easier because you do not have to pull the plugs off the back of the switches all you need to do is back probe each side
B
bertsmobile1
It really sounds an awful lot like your mower thinks the blades are engaged. Since you were working in that area, that's logical to me. You should be able to trace the yellow wire around the mower to all the switches, but I'd suspect that the PTO switch is not engaging.
BTW, I really like this guy's troubleshooting steps when tracing electrical problems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8m88LawN0I&t=10s
One would have thought that Sears would have at least picked a mower with good crimps on the wires.
Those are pretty bad.
I really hate professional videos that are only 1/2 done .
So he tested each of the switches that Sears sells but failed to test the wiring between the key switch & the brake switch and the brake switch & the PTO switch.
Measuring resistance is always problematic particularly on old mowers with a healthy oxide layer on the terminals.
This is why when I go through these proceedure I ask people to jump the B & S terminals on the key switch plug then check for voltage.
This is easier because you do not have to pull the plugs off the back of the switches all you need to do is back probe each side
#11
C
ccheatha
I think it's geared towards novices like myself. When I found it, it gave me a better understanding of all the switches involved and it helped me solve another problem with the old mower I'm working on now. Now to an obvious, seasoned vet like yourself, it might not be of much help :smile:
C
ccheatha
One would have thought that Sears would have at least picked a mower with good crimps on the wires.
Those are pretty bad.
I really hate professional videos that are only 1/2 done .
So he tested each of the switches that Sears sells but failed to test the wiring between the key switch & the brake switch and the brake switch & the PTO switch.
Measuring resistance is always problematic particularly on old mowers with a healthy oxide layer on the terminals.
This is why when I go through these proceedure I ask people to jump the B & S terminals on the key switch plug then check for voltage.
This is easier because you do not have to pull the plugs off the back of the switches all you need to do is back probe each side
I think it's geared towards novices like myself. When I found it, it gave me a better understanding of all the switches involved and it helped me solve another problem with the old mower I'm working on now. Now to an obvious, seasoned vet like yourself, it might not be of much help :smile:
#12
B
bertsmobile1
I did not say it was not useful or even good, just dissapointing that it was incomplete.
Much like those demonstrators you see in hardwear stores on the weekend .
If you read any of my posts you will notice I do try to explain both what & why because it is better in the long run if the person understands what is happening so in the future they can nut it out for themselves.
And thank you for sharing it.
Finding use full vidoes on the web is not easy.
B
bertsmobile1
I think it's geared towards novices like myself. When I found it, it gave me a better understanding of all the switches involved and it helped me solve another problem with the old mower I'm working on now. Now to an obvious, seasoned vet like yourself, it might not be of much help :smile:
I did not say it was not useful or even good, just dissapointing that it was incomplete.
Much like those demonstrators you see in hardwear stores on the weekend .
If you read any of my posts you will notice I do try to explain both what & why because it is better in the long run if the person understands what is happening so in the future they can nut it out for themselves.
And thank you for sharing it.
Finding use full vidoes on the web is not easy.
#13
C
ccheatha
Gotcha. I understood that. I guess I was just thinking that if it was in much more detail, it might be beyond the novice. Of course, with my limited knowledge, I really wouldn't know if it might be complete or not. I definitely appreciate you guys being around to share the wisdom. I'll keep you posted on my interlock switch install - waiting on the part.
C
ccheatha
I did not say it was not useful or even good, just dissapointing that it was incomplete.
Much like those demonstrators you see in hardwear stores on the weekend .
If you read any of my posts you will notice I do try to explain both what & why because it is better in the long run if the person understands what is happening so in the future they can nut it out for themselves.
And thank you for sharing it.
Finding use full vidoes on the web is not easy.
Gotcha. I understood that. I guess I was just thinking that if it was in much more detail, it might be beyond the novice. Of course, with my limited knowledge, I really wouldn't know if it might be complete or not. I definitely appreciate you guys being around to share the wisdom. I'll keep you posted on my interlock switch install - waiting on the part.
#14
E
errn12
E
errn12
So I got some starter fluid and the mower DID start while closing the solenoid. Motor spins great. There is no click on the solenoid under the carb. There is no fuse on the small red wire between the starter solenoid and the switch. There is a junction...but no fuse. Also read somewhere that there was supposed to be a fuse on the main red cable going to the battery but couldn't find that one either. Assuming that if there was a bad fuse on that cable, I wouldn't be getting anything so I didn't look for it long.
I agree with the comment about the PTO but there was only one cable attached to the deck (it is a manual engage)--a cable much like the old throttle cable on old-school push mowers. The safety switch is in the engage lever up by the steering wheel So I was never anywhere near that.
I agree with the comment about the PTO but there was only one cable attached to the deck (it is a manual engage)--a cable much like the old throttle cable on old-school push mowers. The safety switch is in the engage lever up by the steering wheel So I was never anywhere near that.
#15
cpurvis
cpurvis
deleted.
Sorry, I waded into this not realizing there was a second page of comments.
Sorry, I waded into this not realizing there was a second page of comments.
#16
C
ccheatha
Yeah, so the reason I was thinking PTO related was cause you mentioned working with the blades, so possible mower deck adjustment. One thing for sure, the circuit is not completing due to one of the PTO switch or maybe the brake/clutch switch. My old MTD won't start unless I stand and press the brake down hard with my foot. I traced it and found that the break/clutch switch wasn't being pushed in all the way (not completing the circuit).
Here's a vid I came upon for the PTO - shows how the bracket for the blade engagement can wear and therefore not push the switch button in all the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9BGOU6brU
Good luck figuring it out.
C
ccheatha
So I got some starter fluid and the mower DID start while closing the solenoid. Motor spins great. There is no click on the solenoid under the carb. There is no fuse on the small red wire between the starter solenoid and the switch. There is a junction...but no fuse. Also read somewhere that there was supposed to be a fuse on the main red cable going to the battery but couldn't find that one either. Assuming that if there was a bad fuse on that cable, I wouldn't be getting anything so I didn't look for it long.
I agree with the comment about the PTO but there was only one cable attached to the deck (it is a manual engage)--a cable much like the old throttle cable on old-school push mowers. The safety switch is in the engage lever up by the steering wheel So I was never anywhere near that.
Yeah, so the reason I was thinking PTO related was cause you mentioned working with the blades, so possible mower deck adjustment. One thing for sure, the circuit is not completing due to one of the PTO switch or maybe the brake/clutch switch. My old MTD won't start unless I stand and press the brake down hard with my foot. I traced it and found that the break/clutch switch wasn't being pushed in all the way (not completing the circuit).
Here's a vid I came upon for the PTO - shows how the bracket for the blade engagement can wear and therefore not push the switch button in all the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9BGOU6brU
Good luck figuring it out.
#17
B
bertsmobile1
Unless you bought the mower used and the PO has been playing silly buggers there is a fuse.
If the fuel solenoid is not opening then that says the fuse is blown and no power is being supplied to the key switch.
You can verify this by testing for voltage on the B terminal at the plug.
Remember the positions of the terminals will be reversed when you are looking at the plug.
The B terminal should be a red wire
You can do a simple test while you have the plug off by jumping from the battery + to the S terminal on the plug.
IF all of your switches are good the solenoid should energise & the engine spin.
It will not start because there is no power to the carb.
Fuses can be very hard to find.
As you saw on the Sears video , they hide it under the battery box.
B
bertsmobile1
So I got some starter fluid and the mower DID start while closing the solenoid. Motor spins great. There is no click on the solenoid under the carb. There is no fuse on the small red wire between the starter solenoid and the switch. There is a junction...but no fuse. Also read somewhere that there was supposed to be a fuse on the main red cable going to the battery but couldn't find that one either. Assuming that if there was a bad fuse on that cable, I wouldn't be getting anything so I didn't look for it long.
I agree with the comment about the PTO but there was only one cable attached to the deck (it is a manual engage)--a cable much like the old throttle cable on old-school push mowers. The safety switch is in the engage lever up by the steering wheel So I was never anywhere near that.
Unless you bought the mower used and the PO has been playing silly buggers there is a fuse.
If the fuel solenoid is not opening then that says the fuse is blown and no power is being supplied to the key switch.
You can verify this by testing for voltage on the B terminal at the plug.
Remember the positions of the terminals will be reversed when you are looking at the plug.
The B terminal should be a red wire
You can do a simple test while you have the plug off by jumping from the battery + to the S terminal on the plug.
IF all of your switches are good the solenoid should energise & the engine spin.
It will not start because there is no power to the carb.
Fuses can be very hard to find.
As you saw on the Sears video , they hide it under the battery box.
#18
C
ccheatha
Awesome info, Bert.
Yeah, I eventually found the fuse on mine by removing a plate in between the seat and steering wheel. Underneath that I found the solenoid and next to it was the fuse.
C
ccheatha
Unless you bought the mower used and the PO has been playing silly buggers there is a fuse.
If the fuel solenoid is not opening then that says the fuse is blown and no power is being supplied to the key switch.
You can verify this by testing for voltage on the B terminal at the plug.
Remember the positions of the terminals will be reversed when you are looking at the plug.
The B terminal should be a red wire
You can do a simple test while you have the plug off by jumping from the battery + to the S terminal on the plug.
IF all of your switches are good the solenoid should energise & the engine spin.
It will not start because there is no power to the carb.
Fuses can be very hard to find.
As you saw on the Sears video , they hide it under the battery box.
Awesome info, Bert.
Yeah, I eventually found the fuse on mine by removing a plate in between the seat and steering wheel. Underneath that I found the solenoid and next to it was the fuse.
#19
B
bertsmobile1
SO that you know where the thinking is.
If the power to the key switch is good & the key switch is good then the carb solenoid will turn on when you turn the key to on.
If it does not then the starter can also not crank because it can not get any power.
If the solenoid turns on but the engine does not crank then the problem is in the cranking circuit.
Now this does not mean for instance a bad switch or wire in the cranking circuit is blowing the fuse but you need the fuse there first to find out.
B
bertsmobile1
Awesome info, Bert.
Yeah, I eventually found the fuse on mine by removing a plate in between the seat and steering wheel. Underneath that I found the solenoid and next to it was the fuse.
SO that you know where the thinking is.
If the power to the key switch is good & the key switch is good then the carb solenoid will turn on when you turn the key to on.
If it does not then the starter can also not crank because it can not get any power.
If the solenoid turns on but the engine does not crank then the problem is in the cranking circuit.
Now this does not mean for instance a bad switch or wire in the cranking circuit is blowing the fuse but you need the fuse there first to find out.
#20
C
ccheatha
So when all else fails, google the location. Errn, maybe you can take a look at this post on Houzz to see if it helps to find the fuse:
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1647723/ok-i-give-up-where-is-the-fuse
Also, here's another post just in case Ariens are similar across models in where they put their fuses (check around 3:35 or so within the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq3pMVe6As
Good luck
C
ccheatha
SO that you know where the thinking is.
If the power to the key switch is good & the key switch is good then the carb solenoid will turn on when you turn the key to on.
If it does not then the starter can also not crank because it can not get any power.
If the solenoid turns on but the engine does not crank then the problem is in the cranking circuit.
Now this does not mean for instance a bad switch or wire in the cranking circuit is blowing the fuse but you need the fuse there first to find out.
So when all else fails, google the location. Errn, maybe you can take a look at this post on Houzz to see if it helps to find the fuse:
https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1647723/ok-i-give-up-where-is-the-fuse
Also, here's another post just in case Ariens are similar across models in where they put their fuses (check around 3:35 or so within the video):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq3pMVe6As
Good luck