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Electrical Issues LX42KH
#1
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
OK, my first time to post here so cut me a little slack if I unintentionally go astray . My cub cadet has served me well for 5 years, but have an issue this Spring . Last week my mower started an ran fine all afternoon, no issues noted . When I came back the next day to complete the job, the mower wouldn't start, crank over, anything . I check the under seat fuse (25 amp) and it was blown . I replaced the fuse, and it started and ran fine that afternoon . I was still concerned about blowing a 25 amp fuse . Now, the fuse is not blown, but won't do anything again, even the headlights won't come on . I couldn't hear the starter solenoid click, and it being a cheap part, I replaced it with a new one . After installing it I had gained nothing . With the switch on, I have power to both small terminals and of course the feed wire from the battery, but it never makes up to send fire to the starter . I shorted out the 2 bigger cables to crank the engine over, and it indeed did that but didn't sound healthy at all . The switch is working as I can hear the fuel solenoid click . Out of curiosity I checked the wires (1 red,1 green) going to the headlights, and both show to be hot with switch on . I figured the green should have been a ground IDK, but they don't light up . Let me shut up wondering and turn this over to you guyz for questions . Thanks for any helpful suggestions .
#2
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
You start diagnosing electrical problems with the wiring diagram
Yours should be some where here .
General stuff
1 run a jumper from the battery - to a good ground on the mower engine
Problem goes away = bad ground connection .
2) you can put a switch anywhere that you like in a circuit ,
It is usually on to power feed ( + ) side but it can also be on the ground side as well.
If on the ground side , both wires will read as hot .
3 ) the bulk of the wiring on mowers use ground switching not power switching
Yours should be some where here .
General stuff
1 run a jumper from the battery - to a good ground on the mower engine
Problem goes away = bad ground connection .
2) you can put a switch anywhere that you like in a circuit ,
It is usually on to power feed ( + ) side but it can also be on the ground side as well.
If on the ground side , both wires will read as hot .
3 ) the bulk of the wiring on mowers use ground switching not power switching
#3
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
I did not find a wiring diagram for my mower (LX42KH) on that link . I found one on a parts warehouse site, but it's unreadable The jumper to the engine didn't change anything . I've been trying to check out folks that have had similar issues and it seems if it was a safety switch problem their headlights & hour meter still functioned as normal . Neither of those items work on my mower, as both leads to them show hot . IDK . I pulled the solenoid back off and ran a bench test, and it cycles fine when one of the small wires is a ground, but like most everywhere else they are both hot when installed on the mower . I did find that I needed a new starter . I had stated that when I jumped across the solenoid that it cranked over, but sounded crappy . Well the starter drive was hung in the flywheel ring and didn't/wouldn't release, plus lots of bearing slop . Anyone want to recommend a favorite parts supplier ? .........and should my headlights/hour meter be working if the problem is a safety switch ? I've completed a primary survey of most of the wiring harness and haven't found anything that looks to be damaged on it, I also took apart all the connectors and cleaned them . The ignition switch seems to be supplying electrical as called for, and the coils are hot with switch on . I had to take time out to cut grass with a different mower yesterday, plus I'm in my 70's with a bad back, so things are moving slow on this repair, but with your help, I feel we will succeed . Thanks Again to all .
#5
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
No only power side is fused
Sorry for the dud link, I should have checked so shame on me
And yes I could only find that same bad reproduction .
Hopefully some one with dealer access will come up with a better one
But to do that they will need the model number off the tag under the seat .
The number should start with 13 and look like this 13APA1CS330 from the afore mentioned web page .
I can sort of plod my way through it because I have a good idea about how mowers are wired and most are wired very much the same .
But getting you to understand it without a diagram to follow is not going to be an easy task .
Sorry for the dud link, I should have checked so shame on me
And yes I could only find that same bad reproduction .
Hopefully some one with dealer access will come up with a better one
But to do that they will need the model number off the tag under the seat .
The number should start with 13 and look like this 13APA1CS330 from the afore mentioned web page .
I can sort of plod my way through it because I have a good idea about how mowers are wired and most are wired very much the same .
But getting you to understand it without a diagram to follow is not going to be an easy task .
#6
StarTech
StarTech
XT2-K42 KH Schematic
#7
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks Star but it is the same unreadable diagram as we have already found
Can you make any sense of it ?
Looks like the magneto is controlled by the seat & brake switch relays so not grounded via the key
and the cranking circuit is a std key -> PTO -> Brake => solenoid -> ground
But I can not make out any of the wire colours
can you ?
Can you make any sense of it ?
Looks like the magneto is controlled by the seat & brake switch relays so not grounded via the key
and the cranking circuit is a std key -> PTO -> Brake => solenoid -> ground
But I can not make out any of the wire colours
can you ?
#8
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Roland
This is going to be a bit tricky depending upon how good your understanding of DC electronics is
And further to this, the wiring diagram they you & star has found shows an electric PTO
However the parts diagrams I could find all show a manual PTO so it may or may not be the same wiring
The headlights for instance are tied to the carb solenoid so energised when ever the key is in any of the on positions .
The power goes from the battery + through the key switch to the headlights, through the elements then to ground
If you disconnect the plug so both globes are not connected then one side of the plug will read + to ground and the other side will read nothing to ground .
If you back tested the socket while the globes were still connected then both sides will read + to the frame
The seat & brake switches are double switches and connect flat to flat
With the plunger up one side will be closed and the other open.
This should reverse when the plunger is down if the switch is in good condition
The cranking circuit goes from the key switch through the PTO switch through brake switch then to the solenoid trigger wire ( small ones at the base )
Your solenoid should be part No # 925-05013 with 2 small wires at the base
One of these wires must be ground and the other is switched power to start the engine.
On some looms the ground wire is a short wire which goes from one of the mounting screws to the ground tab and I have seen people accidentially put this wire on the starter side top cable in place of the mounting screw in which case the solenoid can not be triggered .
Easy test is to use a couple of short wires with a female terminal on one end
Hook them up to the trigger terminals, touch one to the battery cable & the other to the mounting screw
If the solenoid is good the engine should attempt to crank
Polarity does not matter
Now we come to problems & identity crisis
The parts book shows the # 925-05013 seat switch as being fitted
This switch is usually fitted to a plug with an internal shorting strip to prevent the mower being used with the switch disconnected ( you can thank face book fools for that ) and usually when that is done the cranking circuit passes through the seat switch.
The diagram above shows the cranking circuit only passing through the PTO & brake switch so we have sortof hit a brick wall till we can determine exactly what you have .
This is going to be a bit tricky depending upon how good your understanding of DC electronics is
And further to this, the wiring diagram they you & star has found shows an electric PTO
However the parts diagrams I could find all show a manual PTO so it may or may not be the same wiring
The headlights for instance are tied to the carb solenoid so energised when ever the key is in any of the on positions .
The power goes from the battery + through the key switch to the headlights, through the elements then to ground
If you disconnect the plug so both globes are not connected then one side of the plug will read + to ground and the other side will read nothing to ground .
If you back tested the socket while the globes were still connected then both sides will read + to the frame
The seat & brake switches are double switches and connect flat to flat
With the plunger up one side will be closed and the other open.
This should reverse when the plunger is down if the switch is in good condition
The cranking circuit goes from the key switch through the PTO switch through brake switch then to the solenoid trigger wire ( small ones at the base )
Your solenoid should be part No # 925-05013 with 2 small wires at the base
One of these wires must be ground and the other is switched power to start the engine.
On some looms the ground wire is a short wire which goes from one of the mounting screws to the ground tab and I have seen people accidentially put this wire on the starter side top cable in place of the mounting screw in which case the solenoid can not be triggered .
Easy test is to use a couple of short wires with a female terminal on one end
Hook them up to the trigger terminals, touch one to the battery cable & the other to the mounting screw
If the solenoid is good the engine should attempt to crank
Polarity does not matter
Now we come to problems & identity crisis
The parts book shows the # 925-05013 seat switch as being fitted
This switch is usually fitted to a plug with an internal shorting strip to prevent the mower being used with the switch disconnected ( you can thank face book fools for that ) and usually when that is done the cranking circuit passes through the seat switch.
The diagram above shows the cranking circuit only passing through the PTO & brake switch so we have sortof hit a brick wall till we can determine exactly what you have .
#9
StarTech
https://messicks.com/CC/118466?sectionId=264820&diagramId=818812
Click the link to the Electric Schematic - Electric PTO.
StarTech
Go to Messick's and you can zoom in on the wires. Sorry that the best I can find. Both Cub and MTD are bad about providing schematics. Even then wires colors are not always the same as what is present.Thanks Star but it is the same unreadable diagram as we have already found
Can you make any sense of it ?
Looks like the magneto is controlled by the seat & brake switch relays so not grounded via the key
and the cranking circuit is a std key -> PTO -> Brake => solenoid -> ground
But I can not make out any of the wire colours
can you ?
https://messicks.com/CC/118466?sectionId=264820&diagramId=818812
Click the link to the Electric Schematic - Electric PTO.
#10
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
Thanks for that Star much better at least I can read wire colours on this one.
Now we just need Roland to come back to confirm which PTO he has so we now if the wiring diagram is in fact correct
The parts book I down loaded show it as being a manual PTO but there are a lot of models listed as LX42KH so we really ned the MTD model number
Now we just need Roland to come back to confirm which PTO he has so we now if the wiring diagram is in fact correct
The parts book I down loaded show it as being a manual PTO but there are a lot of models listed as LX42KH so we really ned the MTD model number
#11
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
Sorry for being slow guys, but I've been very busy, and I'm old & broken down as any you'll find . I didn't get to work on it today at all, but we'll get there . I checked all but one safety switch (I think), and all have checked good so far, with no change in problem .PTO is the manual lever engagement, and the switch checked good . The only one I think I lack is the brake switch . I've checked (with multimeter) PTO, parking brake, reverse switch, and seat switch . Still have got the brake switch to check, is there another one somewhere ? I did notice the seat utilized several green wires that I presume are grounds, so I'm guessing if bad it could cause loss of a ground . The fuel solenoid works with a solid click, but the starter solenoid shows 2 hot wires instead of 1 being a ground, same as hour meter & headlights . I sincerely appreciate all the help, and maybe this rings a bell with someone else to comment . Thanks Again !
#12
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
It is your mower & your grass, we got all the time in the world .
Take a photo of the solenoid
I can almost be certain that some one has wired it wrong.
At the base should be an orange + white wire that shows battery voltage when the key is in the start position and nothing with the key in any other position
The other wire should be black or green and be always ground .
Pretty sure it has been connected to one of the large terminals at the top & not the mounting bolt
Take a photo of the solenoid
I can almost be certain that some one has wired it wrong.
At the base should be an orange + white wire that shows battery voltage when the key is in the start position and nothing with the key in any other position
The other wire should be black or green and be always ground .
Pretty sure it has been connected to one of the large terminals at the top & not the mounting bolt
#13
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
Got brake switch checked today, and it showed functional . So, if all safety switches are working, what should I check next ?
#14
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
The wiring at the solenoid
It has to be wrong if both of the wires at the BASE show power when disconnected
It has to be wrong if both of the wires at the BASE show power when disconnected
#15
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
OK, I assure you it's wired exactly the same as the one it replaced, but it may need to be reversed for whatever . That's a fairly easy check, so I'll try that . Remember, headlights & hour meter also show both leads positive . I was truly hoping that it would be a safety switch, especially since some of them were harder than they should have been to access . Engineers don't care what mechanics and techs have to deal with . The seat switch and brake switch both had lots of ground wires (green) running to them, and I figured it was one or the other but that didn't hold up . I look back at the first sign of trouble I noticed, a blown 25 amp fuse, although it ran fine until I shut it down . Now was the lights or hour meter working, I don't know, it was daylight & I had no reason to check either . After replacing the blown fuse it cranked like new, but after that session it would not restart & fuse wasn't blown . A 25 amp fuse tells me there was a pretty solid ground out at some point . It's like the problem was taking on a life of it's own, or at least progressing/changing thru the issue . Thanks for the assistance, I do appreciate it .The wiring at the solenoid
It has to be wrong if both of the wires at the BASE show power when disconnected
#16
B
bertsmobile1
B
bertsmobile1
In the first post you said the fuse blew
This is very often caused by bad grounds & corrosion
This was the first problem that is probably still there
They you decided to replace the starter solenoid at which time I am assuming you wired it incorrectly
The solenoid should be open on the orange / white wire and ground on the green wire
That green is a common ground so if it shows power then some how you have connected a ground wire to power.
Even worse is that common ground also goes to the magneto kill wire and if the magnet was energised through the kill wire then it will be fried .
There is a truism than a new problem is generally caused by the last thing you did .
The key switch could be bad and that could have blown the fuse in the first place
But before I give any instructions I need to know the switch on your mower is the same as the one in the wiring diagram
IT should have 7 wires going into the plug connected to the terminals as follows and the switch should have tiny letters cast into it
However these switches are near impossible to remove without breaking the tangs off .
Red/ black , power in from fuse to B
Green = common ground to G
Green or black = also ground to L
Yellow = magneto kill wire to M ( should show nothing & gets connected to G to stop the engine )
Orange = starter to S , should show nothing till the key is in the start position then it goes to battery voltage
Purple = reverse wire to A2 again nothing till the MIR is activated when it should go to ground
Red = switched power to A1 shows battery voltage when switch is on .
When you start the mower power goes from the red/black wire on B to the Orange wire on S then down to the PTO switch where it changes colour to Orange / black and from there to the brake switch where it changes colour to Orange / white and goes to the starter solenoid where it completes the circuit with the green ground wire and causes the solenoid to trip & energise the starter motor .
It is a very simple circuit
But I can not stress enough that we need photos to ensure what is on your mower is the same as what is in the book
IT is a very simple circuit
This is very often caused by bad grounds & corrosion
This was the first problem that is probably still there
They you decided to replace the starter solenoid at which time I am assuming you wired it incorrectly
The solenoid should be open on the orange / white wire and ground on the green wire
That green is a common ground so if it shows power then some how you have connected a ground wire to power.
Even worse is that common ground also goes to the magneto kill wire and if the magnet was energised through the kill wire then it will be fried .
There is a truism than a new problem is generally caused by the last thing you did .
The key switch could be bad and that could have blown the fuse in the first place
But before I give any instructions I need to know the switch on your mower is the same as the one in the wiring diagram
IT should have 7 wires going into the plug connected to the terminals as follows and the switch should have tiny letters cast into it
However these switches are near impossible to remove without breaking the tangs off .
Red/ black , power in from fuse to B
Green = common ground to G
Green or black = also ground to L
Yellow = magneto kill wire to M ( should show nothing & gets connected to G to stop the engine )
Orange = starter to S , should show nothing till the key is in the start position then it goes to battery voltage
Purple = reverse wire to A2 again nothing till the MIR is activated when it should go to ground
Red = switched power to A1 shows battery voltage when switch is on .
When you start the mower power goes from the red/black wire on B to the Orange wire on S then down to the PTO switch where it changes colour to Orange / black and from there to the brake switch where it changes colour to Orange / white and goes to the starter solenoid where it completes the circuit with the green ground wire and causes the solenoid to trip & energise the starter motor .
It is a very simple circuit
But I can not stress enough that we need photos to ensure what is on your mower is the same as what is in the book
IT is a very simple circuit
#17
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
I've been out of pocket guyz, I broke my hip on Friday the 13th of course . I'm getting a little better each day, unless I over do it . All safety switches have been bench tested, and I managed to get the brake switch reinstalled . I also tried switching the small wires on the solenoid . Problem has not changed . I'm hating to take to a dealer but not sure what else to do . Where we bought the mower has some bad online service reviews, and I know one of the guys that was reporting . My other option is an established sports outlet that has just recently added Cub Cadet to their products . I've dealt with them on other things and they did good . I just keep imagining paying some kid $150 an hour to trouble shoot my problem, that could be a disaster . IDK anymore .
#18
R
RolandB
R
RolandB
Oh, I forgot to add a friend who has the same mower (his is 2 weeks newer than mine) pulled the switch from his working mower and tried it on mine . Still same issues .