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Carb flooding no matter what I do...

Jul 18, 2021#1

electrycmonk

older Green Craftsman riding mower : 917. 289081
hydrostatic tranny
has a 42" deck like the manual i downloaded says but, the sticker under the hood says it came with a 46"?
19.5HP B&S I/C "Turbo Cool" twin cylinder motor
Model #42E707 TYPE #2631 E1 CODE #9906085B

I did the search in here before starting this thread for "42E707 carb" and came up with 2 pages... read them all and realized none was close to my situation.
Acquired it a couple months ago for under $200 (forgot how close to 150) and planned to use it for parts for the other 3 i have.
Turns out I only snagged the ignition switch for now.....

The previous "owner" said it would start and run for a short bit then die. Said he killed the battery and gave up because it wouldn't stay running.
I took it home. Pressure washed the bee-jeebus out of it 1st!
Then took the whole engine airflow cover off of it & the carb filter assembly cover off too. A rat/mouse had made a nest in the ducting area above one cylinder. Thankfully no wires chewed or damaged. Once I had desulfided that battery it was ready to test start.

Holy cow, it was pumping fuel into the intake pipe like it was a drinking fountain. sure it did start and ran for a bit but, i turned it off due to the fuel being blown up out the intake like a fountain of fog getting everything wet.

My 1st thought, carb cleaner stat! Thankfully I was starting with an empty fuel tank when I got it home. The fuel had the proper amount of Sta-Bil in it and was a whopping 2-3 days old when I had time to do this 1st round of starting.
So thats what I did. twice 24 hours apart, just incase i missed anything the 1st time before reassembling.

Next day, tried to start it again.... same effect - fountain of fuel fog.

disassemble and really, clean the heck outta the carb one last time. then went to look on amazon for what a replacement carb , carb rebuild kit, or combo kits would cost. Time delay. Mower sat for a week with no touching it while I finished up 2 of the others. Got them done and stable.
desided to just get the carb,filters and a fuel cutoff valve combo kit & a new ignition with keys. That all arrived friday. Yesterday I swapped out the carb, filters and installed the shutoff valve. Fired it up and that new carb did the exact same fountain of fog and fuel dumping into the intake like a drinking fountain.

Now for the pics and the last detail. This is a 4 screw fuel pump design.

here are a few pics of the new carb and the 2 screenshots from the 19MB, 10 second video i made.

So heres the question. What is causing both of the carbs (original and new) to dump fuel into the intake like a drinking fountain getting everything absolutely soaked?

What more pics or tests should I do for y'alls wisdom to help solve this?

Should I of posted this in the craftsman sub folder as apposed to here?

Not my first rodeo. Not my first forum. However, I believe this is my first request for help here....
Been a member to the Sister forum TractorByNet for quite some time and even longer in MANY other forums; back 1996 for the likes of Subaru forums. I tend to use the same user ID across the boards. Ocasionally a slight spelling difference.

Jul 18, 2021#2

R

Rivets

First thing you need to check, is the float level set properly and is the float needle and seat working properly together to shut off the amount of fuel entering the carb.

Jul 18, 2021#3

S

slomo

electrycmonk said:
A rat/mouse had made a nest in the ducting area above one cylinder.

Cleaning the cooling fins is a yearly maintenance item in your engine manual for ALL MOWER ENGINES. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage $$$.

Jul 18, 2021#4

S

slomo

Need to pressure test both carbs.

Jul 18, 2021#5

S

slomo

electrycmonk said:
Should I of posted this in the craftsman sub folder as apposed to here?

That is a Briggs engine and belongs here in the Briggs section.

If you have a mower question, post in the Craftsman section.

Jul 18, 2021#6

S

slomo

Is that fuel filter installed backwards?

Should be some arrows on the clear part showing proper mounting direction.

Jul 18, 2021#7

S

slomo

Jul 18, 2021#8

electrycmonk

slomo said:
Is that fuel filter installed backwards?

Should be some arrows on the clear part showing proper mounting direction.

Arrow is oriented correctly... i triple checked.

Jul 18, 2021#9

electrycmonk

slomo said:
Cleaning the cooling fins is a yearly maintenance item in your engine manual for ALL MOWER ENGINES. Neglect this and you are looking at engine damage $$$.

i pressure wash "my units" at least every other mowing.... i did state that i just got it for under $200 as a planned parts mower.

Jul 18, 2021#10

electrycmonk

Rivets said:
First thing you need to check, is the float level set properly and is the float needle and seat working properly together to shut off the amount of fuel entering the carb.

(_) 1st thing to do for my homework this week.

thank you @Rivets

Jul 18, 2021#11

electrycmonk

slomo said:
Need to pressure test both carbs.

(_) part 2 of my Homework this week.

Thank you @slomo

Jul 18, 2021#12

S

slomo

electrycmonk said:
Arrow is oriented correctly... i triple checked.

Arrows towards carb right?

Jul 18, 2021#13

S

slomo

electrycmonk said:
i pressure wash "my units" at least every other mowing

Applaud the cleaning effort. The water is the issue I have (rust). Bad idea using a power washer.

Sheit, at least you are cleaning yours LOL. Blast away. Clean the top of the engine block too.

Jul 18, 2021#14

S

slomo

This kind of fuel back fogging out the carb is excessive valve overlap "cam timing" or late ignition timing. Check flywheel key.

Jul 18, 2021#15

S

slomo

Jul 18, 2021#16

B

bertsmobile1

slomo said:
Is that fuel filter installed backwards?

Should be some arrows on the clear part showing proper mounting direction.

Makes no difference except the crud will be inside the the element thus hard to see .

Jul 18, 2021#17

B

bertsmobile1

electrycmonk said:
i pressure wash "my units" at least every other mowing.... i did state that i just got it for under $200 as a planned parts mower.

Stop doing this
All you need to do is blow the mower down with an air duster or even a leaf blower
Once a season remove the blower housing and clean the fins.
If you have mice around, do this at the end of the season & leave it off to prevent them nesting

Jul 18, 2021#18

B

bertsmobile1

Now to your problem which I think is blow back through the carb, if the "fuel fountain" is actually coming out of the carb throat & not the breather hose next to it.

If it is coming out the carb then the most likely cause is an inlet valve staying open
Stuck valve, bent valve, shifted valve guide or just too little valve lash.

If it is coming out the breather then
Blown head gasket

If blown head gasket, that can be caused by bad float allowing engine to fill up with fuel which of course will not compress .

Jul 18, 2021#19

electrycmonk

bertsmobile1 said:
Now to your problem which I think is blow back through the carb, if the "fuel fountain" is actually coming out of the carb throat & not the breather hose next to it.

If it is coming out the carb then the most likely cause is an inlet valve staying open
Stuck valve, bent valve, shifted valve guide or just too little valve lash.

If it is coming out the breather then
Blown head gasket

If blown head gasket, that can be caused by bad float allowing engine to fill up with fuel which of course will not compress .

I guess the "Carb throat" you speak of would = the "Red circle" i drew then, yes?

Jul 18, 2021#20

electrycmonk

slomo said:
Applaud the cleaning effort. The water is the issue I have (rust).

Sheit, at least you are cleaning yours LOL. Blast away. Clean the top of the engine block too.

long ago was taught to keep the engine bay clean. that way you take notice of any leak or other issue ALOT sooner.

We have several vehicles in our fleet. Not including craftsman riding mowers or the cub cadet 7260 with a ford 917 6' flail.
They all get the PSI Washing.

'99 F350 7.3L 4WD CC 6spd w/GV OD
'97 Z3 2.8L 5spd (wifes toy)
'04 TDI jetta 5spd
'15 Sienna (Wife's chariot)
'02 Golf GTI 6spd (son's broken down toy)

Jul 18, 2021#21

electrycmonk

slomo said:
This kind of fuel back fogging out the carb is excessive valve overlap "cam timing" or late ignition timing. Check flywheel key.

so both you and @bertsmobile1 point to checking the valves and the ignition timing marks....

(_) homework #3 and now i think i have a new learning curve ahead of me....
(_) Find the service manual and download it from here? PDF? Unless one of y'all can give me a shortcut link?

Jul 18, 2021#22

Scrubcadet10

How new is the fuel line?

Jul 18, 2021#23

H

hlw49

I agree on the valve problem could be a worn out cam any way the thing looks to be blowing back out the carb. You know if you have the equipment you could do a cylinder leak down test and if it is a valve problem it will tell you. But not if the exhaust valve is staying close and blowing exhaust back out the intake. Could just pull the heads off and check the valves are working. You know I have seen those old opposed twins wallow the valve seat out of them.

Jul 18, 2021#24

Scrubcadet10

flathead clearances close up over time..even heard from star tech on some having Negative clearance.. I.E. valve held slightly open.

Jul 18, 2021#25

B

bertsmobile1

electrycmonk said:
View attachment 57552

I guess the "Carb throat" you speak of would = the "Red circle" i drew then, yes?

Excellent,
Now we are getting some where
The "brass straw" ( blue arrow) is the air vent .
In order for fuel to come out of a carb bowl, air has to get in.
When we had fewer idiots in government and more people who understood things, carburettors had overflows that dripped out of a tube under the engine so you could see from 100' away that the bowl was overflowing.
Now this has to be internal so they overflow through the air vent like yours is doing.
So first job is to remove the carburettor and fix the float valve that is not cutting off the fuel supply.
There were a couple of 1/2 decient you tube links to sites that are good enough.
If the float is cutting off the fuel then we need to look at what is causing the fuel line to be over pressurised .

Next problem
Fuel mist coming out of the carb throat , Red circle .
When the piston gets to the end of the intake stroke it rises a bit before the inlet valve closes .
If the inlet valve does not close fully as the piston rises it will pump most of the fuel that was in the cylinder back out through the carburettor .
It is usual to see a a little of this particulalry at cranking speeds because there is a mechanism that holds the inlet open a bit longer at low speeds to decompress the engine so the starter can crank it fast enough to start.
For the above mentioned idiot law makers, in the old days they held the exhaust open.
Now days they hold the inlet open so in theory the gas goes backwards through the carb and then get sucked back into the engine on the next stroke.
In practice this does not happen, but don't tell the pen pushing experts this .
SO you have a couple of likely suspects hear.
1) failed ACR ( automatic Compression Release ) fairly rare
2) inlet valve hanging open , fairly common
Usual reasons for No 2 were outlined back in the previous post .
If you have no idea how to check these things then tell us.
Plenty here quite willing to walk you through the processes just so long as we know what you need to know.

Jul 19, 2021#26

electrycmonk

Scrubcadet10 said:
How new is the fuel line?

*feels new enough, its reasonably flexible and the screw down clamps do their job with no fuel leaking out at the clamps.

I have stiffer fuel line on a different, fully functional mower currently. Because? - If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Jul 19, 2021#27

Scrubcadet10

Okay, reason i asked is because sometimes the lines can come apart internally and those rubber bits can jam up the float and cause flooding.

Jul 19, 2021#28

electrycmonk

bertsmobile1 said:
Excellent,
Now we are getting some where
The "brass straw" ( blue arrow) is the air vent .
In order for fuel to come out of a carb bowl, air has to get in.
When we had fewer idiots in government and more people who understood things, carburettors had overflows that dripped out of a tube under the engine so you could see from 100' away that the bowl was overflowing.
Now this has to be internal so they overflow through the air vent like yours is doing.
So first job is to remove the carburettor and fix the float valve that is not cutting off the fuel supply.
There were a couple of 1/2 decient you tube links to sites that are good enough.
If the float is cutting off the fuel then we need to look at what is causing the fuel line to be over pressurised .

Next problem
Fuel mist coming out of the carb throat , Red circle .
When the piston gets to the end of the intake stroke it rises a bit before the inlet valve closes .
If the inlet valve does not close fully as the piston rises it will pump most of the fuel that was in the cylinder back out through the carburettor .
It is usual to see a a little of this particulalry at cranking speeds because there is a mechanism that holds the inlet open a bit longer at low speeds to decompress the engine so the starter can crank it fast enough to start.
For the above mentioned idiot law makers, in the old days they held the exhaust open.
Now days they hold the inlet open so in theory the gas goes backwards through the carb and then get sucked back into the engine on the next stroke.
In practice this does not happen, but don't tell the pen pushing experts this .
SO you have a couple of likely suspects hear.
1) failed ACR ( automatic Compression Release ) fairly rare
2) inlet valve hanging open , fairly common
Usual reasons for No 2 were outlined back in the previous post .
If you have no idea how to check these things then tell us.
Plenty here quite willing to walk you through the processes just so long as we know what you need to know.

Alright, @hlw49 , @Scrubcadet10 & @bertsmobile1 I'm gonna say here early... before i goto bed.

let me see the video links to the valve checking.

A leak down test huh? I do honestly have access to a friends from their shop. these screw in at the sparkplug hole normally right? (for diesels i think its screwed into the injectors hole?)

I've rebuilt 5 80's old school subaru's, 1981 Honda CB900c, and a few classic muscle car engines but, I haven't torn into a head or engine this significant in a decade. So show me to the thread where someone else was "Walked thru it." and I will gladly bow my head in fully owning my mental rustiness here and now.

side note this evening I have been troubleshooting our NAS and struggling with the fear of a HardDrive failure that didnt have a solid "backup" done to it in too long.

I'll be back at it tomorrow after lunch finishing the NAS repairs... the Mower will likely be a tuesday or wednesday "laying on of the hands" but, tomorrow and tuesday will be the mental walk with yall...

night night and thanks in advance.

Jul 19, 2021#29

S

slomo

electrycmonk said:
Find the service manual and download it from here? PDF? Unless one of y'all can give me a shortcut link?

http://faculty.missouri.edu/~schumacherl/276781SingleCylinderOHV.pdf

Jul 21, 2021#30

J

Joed756

Using the info Slomo provided, check your valves.

Jul 21, 2021#31

J

Jml

Lots of good suggestions here. I've found going from easiest to hardest works best. Check to make sure the choke is actually coming off. Check the spark plug to see the condition. Replace it. Be sure the gap is correct. Check for clogs in the breather or anywhere else. Check to make sure linkages are on correctly and moving properly. Check where the gas is coming from - back through the carb or in from the breather hose. Check the valve clearances. I've set a bunch of these Brigg's engines and gotten them to run great again.

I had an engine that was blowing gas back out the carb. Turned out to be caused by the aftermarket carburetor. Used the good bowl of the new car on the old carb and she purred like a kitten.

Jul 21, 2021#32

C

ccheatha

As anyone who's had flooding from their carb, the first thought might always be an old needle sticking, but with a new carb that should not be the issue. I've had old carbs sticking like that and I'd just tap the bowl while running and that would free it up then, but you knew you had to pull it apart to clean it up properly. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with in the end. I love taking something that doesn't work, troubleshooting and fixing - that's satisfaction. Best of luck with it.

Jul 21, 2021#33

S

slomo

ccheatha said:
but with a new carb that should not be the issue

New means nothing. Seen several new parts be dead in the box.

Jul 21, 2021#34

tagpop

Whenever I have flooding I watch the oil level to insure gas is not getting into the oil, oil will be overfull. When you open the cap to check the valve clearance is it dirty, rusty; turn the engine several times and insure the valves are working freely lube with wd40 or something similar. I have two of these old engines and still appreciate the flat head design.

Jul 21, 2021#35

C

ccheatha

slomo said:
New means nothing. Seen several new parts be dead in the box.

I guess anything's possible, but I'd think it'd be rare to find a new needle/float assembly that's sticking right out of the box.

Jul 21, 2021#36

R

Rivets

Not as rare as you might think.

Jul 21, 2021#37

Beamster

Old Brit bikes were notorious for carb issues like that.
At a certain point they figured out that the modern gasoline ate away at the plastic floats and they would not float, causing the extra flow of gas and it ends up pouring out.
Suggest you replace the float and float needle and seat whether they look like they need it or not. They should be cheap enough and would require it sooner or later.

Jul 21, 2021#38

M

MowManMow

Check your oil level ASAP, pull your spark plugs out and turn it over to clear cylinders out. Do this with your fuel shut off or fuel hose pinched to stop the flow. Sounds like the old carb leaked fuel into the engine, most likely from old needle/seat going bad from ethanol fuel. Old rubber in them swells up and the needles stick open allowing engines to fill up with fuel. Hope this helps..

I'll just add, if engine itself is not full of gas I'd be leaning to a bad head gasket on it.

Jul 21, 2021#39

S

SamB

ccheatha said:
As anyone who's had flooding from their carb, the first thought might always be an old needle sticking, but with a new carb that should not be the issue. I've had old carbs sticking like that and I'd just tap the bowl while running and that would free it up then, but you knew you had to pull it apart to clean it up properly. It'll be interesting to see what you come up with in the end. I love taking something that doesn't work, troubleshooting and fixing - that's satisfaction. Best of luck with it.

It's maybe not necessary to add this,but just recently my 4 stroke outboard Yamaha was flooding over just as this instance here. Sometimes flood over,sometimes not. A very experienced engine(I thought I was @ 72!) mechanic told me to always run the carb dry to keep the needle tip away from the seat. Keeping the carb bowl full for weeks on end will 'ring' the rubber tip,resulting in possible not sealing properly,resulting in the intermittent overflow. He said I didn't need a kit,just a needle and bowl gasket. End of story,this fixed the intermittent overflow issue.

Jul 22, 2021#40

N

NPD_GrayBeard

With that much spitback, I would suspect a leaking intake valve. On compression, air is forced back into the intake manifold. The reversed air flow through the carb causes the fog of fuel spitting out of the carb. Check for a wet spark plug as one of the cylinders is not firing. Check compression to verify leaking intake valve. If low compression, check valve lash on leaking intake valve. You could have a stuck valve or the valve seat or valve face is worn. You will have to remove the head and remove the valve to set lash. Check valve seat and valve face for wear. Clean deposits off of a stuck valve stem and guide. Recut seat and replace valve if they are worn.

Jul 22, 2021#41

M

MowManMow

SamB said:
It's maybe not necessary to add this,but just recently my 4 stroke outboard Yamaha was flooding over just as this instance here. Sometimes flood over,sometimes not. A very experienced engine(I thought I was @ 72!) mechanic told me to always run the carb dry to keep the needle tip away from the seat. Keeping the carb bowl full for weeks on end will 'ring' the rubber tip,resulting in possible not sealing properly,resulting in the intermittent overflow. He said I didn't need a kit,just a needle and bowl gasket. End of story,this fixed the intermittent overflow issue.

Well' fwiw,
Between 1976 till about 2011/13?? all my Wheel Horses (3) Kohlers and my (2) Snapper self propels with Briggs sat all winter long with fuel in their carbs. Within a year or two after Ethanol going to 10% "all" of their needle/seats had been upgraded to the newer versions that withstand the ethanol fuel.
Since then I run my tractors dry and use Sta-bil too when stored over a month even. I had never changed even one needle/seat in over 3 decades and never ran one dry. I never once experienced fuel in my oil, not one carb issue at all, not even a slow start in over 30 springs, but then the fuel corps added crapolla to all our fuels and so it all began.

I ran Ethanol free pump fuel until it got impossible to locate around here. Buying it off the shelf now would actually cost me more than replacing the entire carbs on them every spring mowing over 2.5 acres. Besides, I've had no issues at all since upgrading all their needle/seats. I still wouldn't let one sit long with fuel in the carb.

The issue I've seen is the old rubber needle tips swell/deform with ethanol so they won't slide up/down inside the carb right or fit inside the seat to seal off the fuel as it should. Then the engine just fills up with fuel when it sits. I've personally seen a couple friends with gravity fed mowers (without fuel pumps) with bent/broken connecting rods because the cylinder was so full of fuel. One was a very nice older Deere with only 66hrs on it. The owner simply failed to check the oil level on their first spring startup or they'd noticed it was full of gas. They just hopped on their mower, started their engine and bam, got a very rude awakening!
Then called me wanting to know whats wrong with their mower?
Answer: Sadly, in the end its the mowers owner.

Jul 22, 2021#42

Scrubcadet10

some people get smart and put their mower key on a chain, and loop it to where you have to remove the engine oil dipstick to get the key to start it.

Jul 22, 2021#43

S

slomo

Scrubcadet10 said:
some people get smart and put their mower key on a chain, and loop it to where you have to remove the engine oil dipstick to get the key to start it.

Sounds like the US Army. Dummy cording everything so not to lose gear.

Takes all of 34 seconds to check the oil prior to mowing. Takes me longer as I need my glasses to see my shiny clean and clear Supertech SG rated SAE30 oil.

slomo

Jul 22, 2021#44

Scrubcadet10

slomo said:
Sounds like the US Army. Dummy cording everything so not to lose gear.

Takes all of 34 seconds to check the oil prior to mowing. Takes me longer as I need my glasses to see my shiny clean and clear Supertech SG rated SAE30 oil.

slomo

That oil's junk....

Jul 23, 2021#45

S

SamB

MowManMow said:
Well' fwiw,
Between 1976 till about 2011/13?? all my Wheel Horses (3) Kohlers and my (2) Snapper self propels with Briggs sat all winter long with fuel in their carbs. Within a year or two after Ethanol going to 10% "all" of their needle/seats had been upgraded to the newer versions that withstand the ethanol fuel.
Since then I run my tractors dry and use Sta-bil too when stored over a month even. I had never changed even one needle/seat in over 3 decades and never ran one dry. I never once experienced fuel in my oil, not one carb issue at all, not even a slow start in over 30 springs, but then the fuel corps added crapolla to all our fuels and so it all began.

I ran Ethanol free pump fuel until it got impossible to locate around here. Buying it off the shelf now would actually cost me more than replacing the entire carbs on them every spring mowing over 2.5 acres. Besides, I've had no issues at all since upgrading all their needle/seats. I still wouldn't let one sit long with fuel in the carb.

The issue I've seen is the old rubber needle tips swell/deform with ethanol so they won't slide up/down inside the carb right or fit inside the seat to seal off the fuel as it should. Then the engine just fills up with fuel when it sits. I've personally seen a couple friends with gravity fed mowers (without fuel pumps) with bent/broken connecting rods because the cylinder was so full of fuel. One was a very nice older Deere with only 66hrs on it. The owner simply failed to check the oil level on their first spring startup or they'd noticed it was full of gas. They just hopped on their mower, started their engine and bam, got a very rude awakening!
Then called me wanting to know whats wrong with their mower?
Answer: Sadly, in the end its the mowers owner.

I have to agree with every bit of this. My Yamaha 15hp 4 stroke is a 2000 model year engine. In the 20 years since new,I've never had an issue with the carb. This last year,the marina where my boat is berthed has been unable to get any fuel that wasn't at least 10% ethanol. I think that's the origin of my carb issues this Spring. While my new needle may be ethanol resistant, I'm still going to unplug the fuel line and run it dry from now on.

Jul 23, 2021#46

S

slomo

SamB said:
I'm going to unplug the fuel line and run it dry from now on.

I have trouble in the off season winter. Drain fuel tanks and carbs. Next season I have to replace fuel lines. Seem to dry out and get hard over the winter.

Run Stabil year round, never worry about it. First pulls nearly on all machines. ?????

slomo

Jul 23, 2021#47

S

SamB

slomo said:
I have trouble in the off season winter. Drain fuel tanks and carbs. Next season I have to replace fuel lines. Seem to dry out and get hard over the winter.

Run Stabil year round, never worry about it. First pulls nearly on all machines. ?????

slomo

I always mix in the required amount of Sta-bil per gallon just,well,just because of the crap we have to buy to burn in our equipment these days. The refinery near where I live has been producing ethanol-free gasoline for small engines and a few stations have it. It is super expensive per gallon,though. $4.00 or so a gallon. I do buy it for all my small gas equipment,trimmers and chain saws,etc.

Jul 23, 2021#48

S

slomo

SamB said:
It is super expensive per gallon,though. $4.00 or so a gallon

I bet thanks to Sleepy Joe Biden and the Democraps.

Gas was $1.69 a gal for E-10 in Oklahoma when Trump was in office. 100% gas was basically 2 bucks per gal.

Gas has doubled now Biden is sitting in the chair day-dreaming.

slomo

Jul 23, 2021#49

R

Rivets

You blame whom ever you like, but fuel increases aren‘t caused by one individual in the last year. Year ago we had 50% less drivers on the road due to the pandemic. We used less fuel so industry reduced production. Hurricane shut down refinery in the south, which is still down. All these things caused higher demand, plus Trump fueled people’s insecurity, with his ego and lies. Now this will get into politics, so I’ll stop as that is against the forum rules.

Jul 23, 2021#50

S

slomo

Rivets said:
Year ago we had 50% less drivers on the road due to the pandemic. We used less fuel so industry reduced production.

Not here in Oklahoma. Most people here don't work at all. Everyday is like school is out and let's go driving around. Traffic is still high here no matter the time of day.

Guess all this free lunch program money and welfare cash, why get a real job? People are making more money off free government hand-outs than working.

Maybe at the start of covid there were less drivers out being super spreaders. Now it's masks off and party time.

slomo

Jul 23, 2021#51

Scrubcadet10

Paid 3.15 /gal for 89 octane the other day.... 93 (Shell V power) octane was almost 3.50.

Jul 23, 2021#52

StarTech

slomo said:
Not here in Oklahoma. Most people here don't work at all. Everyday is like school is out and let's go driving around. Traffic is still high here no matter the time of day.

Guess all this free lunch program money and welfare cash, why get a real job? People are making more money off free government hand-outs than working.

Maybe at the start of covid there were less drivers out being super spreaders. Now it's masks off and party time.

slomo

Speak for yourself. I haven't received a single penny of the promise stimulus money. The first time I went again an invested the money that I was to get in my company but at least when the last promises were made I refused to dig deeper in debt until I actually get the money.

Oh they said if you didn't get the money file your taxes and we'll send the money. Well still nothing. Tried calling but can't even get a real person on the phone form the IRS. So if I don't get it by next tax season they are just getting my paperwork without a d*** payment included.

Jul 23, 2021#53

S

slomo

StarTech said:
Speak for yourself. I haven't received a single penny of the promise stimulus money. The first time I went again an invested the money that I was to get in my company but at least when the last promises were made I refused to dig deeper in debt until I actually get the money.

Oh they said if you didn't get the money file your taxes and we'll send the money. Well still nothing. Tried calling but can't even get a real person on the phone form the IRS. So if I don't get it by next tax season they are just getting my paperwork without a d*** payment included.

I got all three checks in quick fashion. Course I file my taxes yearly.

slomo

Jul 23, 2021#54

B

bertsmobile1

If people have money and spend it then the economy benefits greatly because we all end up with more business.
Right now all the economics gurus are busy rewriting the text books.
The best thing a country can do for economic wealth is give money to those who have none because they will spend it.
The big problem is middle class welfare where the money gets saved or shoved into inflating assets like real estate.
Just about every country has proved this during the covid crisis.
Countries that were generous like the USA & Aust have booming economies and countries that did not like Korea & Singapore have come out very badly
Dow side here is low interest rates and cashed up middle class has created a feeding frenzie as the middle class & upper class hoover up every property such that like in Ireland property values are increasing as much as 20% in a single year.
The average Australan now owns 7.5 houses yet 37% do not own any property which will create poverty trap a decade or two down the track.

As for people wanting to live on welfare that is fine.
Let those who do not want to work not work so they are no longer hindering the progress of those who do want to work & get ahead
OTOH the labour rates in the USA are just barely above those in most of Asia in a local currency perspective
You can like a lot better life in Vietnam on $ 1.50 / hr than you can in the USA on $ 15.00/ hr

In the immediate post WWII period the giants of manufacturing were a lot more humane than they are now.
Henry Ford would have never closed a factory down in one state throwing thousands of complete families to the wolves because he could build a new factory elsewhere and have the same work done at a labour rate that is 6% cheaper .
But the money grubbing billionires that bought B & S did.
Ford understood markets so when he realised his own workers could not afford to own the cars they made he instituted massive wage rises, productivity bonuses & staff discounts .
That is because he knew it was no good making cars if 2/3 the population could not afford to buy them.
Most people are not lazy
However most of them do not want to have more money than BillGates , they just want enough to live reasonably comfortably and raise a family is peace & security.
Being born into a dirt poor family I can understand this quite well and being forced to work in all sorts of industries I have seen the unmittigatd greed of the top 5% destroying everything they touch.
Tell me that Addias can not afford to make shoes in the USA when they retail for $100 + a pair.' They can afford to pay premier athletes $ 10,000,000 to make TV commercials endorsing their shoes ut can not afford to pay their workers a living wage and outsourced the manufacturing to 3rd world countries .
I worked in a sports shoe factory at one time. The output of the factory was over 500 pairs of shoes per worker a week so the labour costs were next to nothing , yet the factory closed & production moved to India.

Jul 26, 2021#55

R

Rivets

Star you can’t have it both ways. You dont want to pay federal taxes, but you want the government to pay you? Why should I and millions of others who pay their taxes and social security give money to those who refuse to do so. We may not like the rules or laws, but we still must follow them. In this case it helped us get a stimulus check.

Jul 26, 2021#56

G

guzzijohn

Getting back to the problem-if it has a fuel pump and shut off valve run it off filled carb with valve shut so pump can't overwhelm iffy float needle. That shouldn't be the case with the new carb so If indeed it spits back from one cylinder I'd open the valve cover to see if the intake is closing or being held open a bit by carbon/varnish deposits. I once got a free chipper with no compression. Pulled head, removed and cleaned dirty intake valve stem and ran so so. Then discovered a carb/fuel issue that required partial choke to keep running-that was the cause of valve carbon buildup. As far as fuel issues I simply drain all my mowers, snow blowers, and motorcycles completely for their off seasons. My own mower is a LT100 917.272680 that I swapped the chipper for that had a blown single so I put a n Intek V twin in it. I'm a 75 y.o. lifelong mechanic. I pic up free mowers and snow blowers to fix and sell most of which have carb issues. . A friend runs a 1 man bike shop and 60% of his business is fuel system related.

Jul 27, 2021#57

S

slomo

StarTech said:
Speak for yourself. I haven't received a single penny of the promise stimulus money. The first time I went again an invested the money that I was to get in my company but at least when the last promises were made I refused to dig deeper in debt until I actually get the money.

Oh they said if you didn't get the money file your taxes and we'll send the money. Well still nothing. Tried calling but can't even get a real person on the phone form the IRS. So if I don't get it by next tax season they are just getting my paperwork without a d*** payment included.

You have to file your federal taxes in order to get the checks. They check to see if you filed or not and dispense checks accordingly.

slomo

Jul 27, 2021#58

StarTech

Rivets said:
Star you can’t have it both ways. You dont want to pay federal taxes, but you want the government to pay you? Why should I and millions of others who pay their taxes and social security give money to those who refuse to do so. We may not like the rules or laws, but we still must follow them. In this case it helped us get a stimulus check.

slomo said:
You have to file your federal taxes in order to get the checks. They check to see if you filed or not and dispense checks accordingly.

slomo

Rivets and Slomo STOP assuming that I haven't filed my damn taxes. It is the IRS that don't want to pay me what is owed.

Look I have been filing and paying my taxes over forty damn years (actually since 1979) and all a sudden they can't spell my name correctly so the banks are refusing to cash the checks. All I can do is to send the checks back as it is forgery if I sign as the checks are written but even then I still would not be able to cash them. There is no human to talk to at the IRS, to get this straighten out. It looks like the only way to get their attention is to file in 2022 (2021 taxes) which I know I owe taxes and not send in a payment. Maybe then someone from the IRS will call if they are not too lazy to pickup the phone and dial the number provided.

BTW I run legit business that pays its taxes yearly unlike some here that do this work on the side and never pay any income taxes. I also collect and pay state and local sales taxes quarterly. I just sent in over $800 in collected sales taxes.

Jul 27, 2021#59

Scrubcadet10

More....'

I think some taxes are a good form for the gov't to ensure it has money... I'd be happier with a better functioning, spending wise Gov't.... They need to take a Dave Ramsey class for pete's sake.
They can do with out Property and income tax.

Jul 27, 2021#60

S

SamB

Back to the topic, here's pic of the needles. See the ring on the tip? Left needle. While I do have shut-offs on all my OPE stuff,that is not an option on an marine engine that may overflow at any time.

Jul 27, 2021#61

StarTech

Yes the one with the ringed tip will leak. Some will that take a 10x loupe to see the ringing. And those shut off valve do leak too. I got a LX178 in the shop right now that the shut off valve is leaking.

Jul 27, 2021#62

Scrubcadet10

StarTech said:
Yes the one with the ringed tip will leak. Some will that take a 10x loupe to see the ringing. And those shut off valve do leak too. I got a LX178 in the shop right now that the shut off valve is leaking.

i see quite a few chinese copies of the briggs shut offs that leak, usually around the red lever portion
i always fit the OEM real deal with no issues.

Jul 27, 2021#63

G

guzzijohn

You mean an outboagd? If it is the old pressure tank just listen cap if it has a pump a shut off can be plumbed in. But I thought we we're talking about the tractor twin. Is it gravity fed or pumped? Either way fuel flow can be stopped by valve, clamped hose, or pulling pump vacuum line. I didn't notice if your carb was a twin throat like mine or a single throat feeling both cylinders. A bad needle or any other carb issue wouldn't effect just one side with the single throat so we're back to the sticky intake valve. Have you checked compression? One other thought is if the dead side has no spark you could possibly get raw gas spitting back.

Jul 28, 2021#64

C

ccheatha

electrycmonk said:
older Green Craftsman riding mower : 917. 289081
hydrostatic tranny
has a 42" deck like the manual i downloaded says but, the sticker under the hood says it came with a 46"?
19.5HP B&S I/C "Turbo Cool" twin cylinder motor
Model #42E707 TYPE #2631 E1 CODE #9906085B

I did the search in here before starting this thread for "42E707 carb" and came up with 2 pages... read them all and realized none was close to my situation.
Acquired it a couple months ago for under $200 (forgot how close to 150) and planned to use it for parts for the other 3 i have.
Turns out I only snagged the ignition switch for now.....

The previous "owner" said it would start and run for a short bit then die. Said he killed the battery and gave up because it wouldn't stay running.
I took it home. Pressure washed the bee-jeebus out of it 1st!
Then took the whole engine airflow cover off of it & the carb filter assembly cover off too. A rat/mouse had made a nest in the ducting area above one cylinder. Thankfully no wires chewed or damaged. Once I had desulfided that battery it was ready to test start.

Holy cow, it was pumping fuel into the intake pipe like it was a drinking fountain. sure it did start and ran for a bit but, i turned it off due to the fuel being blown up out the intake like a fountain of fog getting everything wet.

My 1st thought, carb cleaner stat! Thankfully I was starting with an empty fuel tank when I got it home. The fuel had the proper amount of Sta-Bil in it and was a whopping 2-3 days old when I had time to do this 1st round of starting.
So thats what I did. twice 24 hours apart, just incase i missed anything the 1st time before reassembling.

Next day, tried to start it again.... same effect - fountain of fuel fog.

disassemble and really, clean the heck outta the carb one last time. then went to look on amazon for what a replacement carb , carb rebuild kit, or combo kits would cost. Time delay. Mower sat for a week with no touching it while I finished up 2 of the others. Got them done and stable.
desided to just get the carb,filters and a fuel cutoff valve combo kit & a new ignition with keys. That all arrived friday. Yesterday I swapped out the carb, filters and installed the shutoff valve. Fired it up and that new carb did the exact same fountain of fog and fuel dumping into the intake like a drinking fountain.

Now for the pics and the last detail. This is a 4 screw fuel pump design.
View attachment 57544

View attachment 57545

View attachment 57546

View attachment 57547

here are a few pics of the new carb and the 2 screenshots from the 19MB, 10 second video i made.
View attachment 57542

View attachment 57543

So heres the question. What is causing both of the carbs (original and new) to dump fuel into the intake like a drinking fountain getting everything absolutely soaked?

What more pics or tests should I do for y'alls wisdom to help solve this?

Should I of posted this in the craftsman sub folder as apposed to here?

Not my first rodeo. Not my first forum. However, I believe this is my first request for help here....
Been a member to the Sister forum TractorByNet for quite some time and even longer in MANY other forums; back 1996 for the likes of Subaru forums. I tend to use the same user ID across the boards. Ocasionally a slight spelling difference.

Just reading some of the comments near the end: wow, it took a bit of a turn there for a while with things like stimulus check discussions - LOL. Would love to see the before pics. Looks like you really got that thing cleaned up with the pressure washing. I never really pressure wash engines as I've always been afraid to get water where it's not supposed to go, but I'll blast it with air.

So... have you made any progress on the problem with gas flow?

Jul 28, 2021#65

StarTech

Yes I kinda dragged to topic off topic. I reckon after 62 yrs I am learning that the government can't be trust to do what they pass laws to do. They promise you the Moon and then won't even give you a toothpick to get it.

As noted we do need get back on topic and forgive me for dragging off topic. In order to do the OP needs to chime in as to where they are in the repair.

Jul 28, 2021#66

G

guzzijohn

I pulled up images of your carb yesterday. I've never seen that one before. Among the dozens of machines I took care of at the U of MN were several portable welders with Onan flat twins. They were reliable as a rock. I wonder if that carb was another great leap forward like "Syncro -Balancing" that B&S engineers came up with. No one familiar with that engine has chimed in yet. Where is Taryn when we need him!!??

Jul 29, 2021#67

S

slomo

Elvis has left the building. Guess he took the OP with him.

slomo

Jul 29, 2021#68

Scrubcadet10

slomo said:
Elvis has left the building. Guess he took the OP with him.

slomo

I hope the OP still isn't with him...

Jul 29, 2021#69

S

slomo

Scrubcadet10 said:
I hope the OP still isn't with him...

Dude checked out couple pages ago. Viva Viva Las Vegas.........

slomo

Aug 25, 2021#70

electrycmonk

ccheatha said:
Just reading some of the comments near the end: wow, it took a bit of a turn there for a while with things like stimulus check discussions - LOL. Would love to see the before pics. Looks like you really got that thing cleaned up with the pressure washing. I never really pressure wash engines as I've always been afraid to get water where it's not supposed to go, but I'll blast it with air.

So... have you made any progress on the problem with gas flow?

(giggles) Yeah, "Elvis sure as heck left the building, forum & state" from the looks of things....

yes I had doo doo occur IRL & the mower is still sitting on jackstands for a month now while i tended to other more pressing issues. 2 days ago i popped one head off to see that the valves do appear to both open & close correctly. Still need to do the other head to watch those valves open & close...

as for right this moment? I'm hunting for that PDF i thought I downloaded from here on the manual to check the vavle clearances with the feeler gauge.... now that found the gauge.

Aug 25, 2021#71

electrycmonk

slomo said:
http://faculty.missouri.edu/~schumacherl/276781SingleCylinderOHV.pdf

okay this great for my other mower. alas the mower of this thread is a TWIN cylinder and the valves are inverted to the design of this block. *AS I just updated from finally getting to look at one head the other day, the valves are up-side-down from this manuals details.

Aug 25, 2021#72

dougand3

Yours is an opposed twin. This manual is older but should be close: https://www.manualslib.com/download/863144/Briggs-And-Stratton-Twin-Cylinder-L-Head.html

Aug 25, 2021#73

S

slomo

Try this one out.

Twin Cylinder OHV | PDF

Section 1 IGNITION is the process by which an electric motor is ignited. Section 2 CYLINDER HEAD and VALVES are the processes by which an electrical motor ignites. Section 3 ELECTRIC STARTER is the method by which a battery is ignited by an electric motor. Section 4 ELECTRONIC STARTER and...

www.scribd.com

Aug 25, 2021#74

Scrubcadet10

electrycmonk said:
as for right this moment? I'm hunting for that PDF i thought I downloaded from here on the manual to check the vavle clearances with the feeler gauge.... now that found the gauge.

What engine you got? model number plz

Aug 25, 2021#75

electrycmonk

dougand3 said:
Yours is an opposed twin. This manual is older but should be close: https://www.manualslib.com/download/863144/Briggs-And-Stratton-Twin-Cylinder-L-Head.html

@dougand3 and @slomo ....i have downloaded. opened & printed off specific pages.....Thanks guys.... oh and slomo, i don't have a scribe account but, found a screenshot *work-around*....

well now, that's a lot of front end disassembly to get to *see* the valve stems to check the clearances...i plan to tackle this in the next few days. i will take pics for documenting and making it easier for others in the future as well.....

/Elvis is logging off now (giggles)

Aug 25, 2021#76

electrycmonk

Scrubcadet10 said:
What engine you got? model number plz

see my initial post dude....

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