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Hello everybody. I am looking for some advice on buying a new zero turn. I had an acre in Florida and mowed it with a Cub Cadet from Home Depot. Worked just fine for what I did with it. I moved to North Carolina a couple years ago and did not expect to have a yard for a while so I sold the Cub Cadet. Now I'm on a 3/4 acre and used a walk behind all last year. I will be on 5-10 acres in the next few years. I'm at the phase of my life where I want to buy something once correctly instead of buying incorrectly and having to re-buy in a couple years. So I want to buy a mower that will serve me well for my next yard but I want to buy it now because the thought of another year behind the walk behind on this current lot makes me miserable.

What I really want is the Scag Liberty Z however the price tag scares me. I'm willing to spend it to buy correctly and have something that will serve me well for the next 10+ years however I'm wondering if there is something else on the market that will serve me just as well that I just haven't come across yet and that's what I'm here asking your opinions for. I know I want a Kawasaki V-Twin motor and a 46"-52" fabricated deck. Is there any other mower I should be looking at that will go the long haul (10+ years) for me on 5-10 acres?

Thanks and I appreciate any help.

I would want something bigger/faster/stronger for mowing 5 to 10 acres. Yeah, you could do it with a 52 inch Liberty, but it would be quite a chore.

I apologize, I should have given more detail. Only 2-3 acres of the property where my home will be built will be kept. The rest will be wild. So i'm looking for something to handle that 2-3 acres once the house is built but want to purchase now because I don't know if I can do the walk behind on this current lot for another year. My life is extremely busy and I don't have the time to invest in it. Mowing with the walk behind takes 1-2 hours. My buddy with his zero turn did it in 30 minutes- and that was with taking extra time to spread the clippings because the grass was very tall. I could easily go back to Home Depot and get another 1200-1500 ride on but then that leaves me with another purchase to make when the house is built. The way I figure is I might as well just do it right the first time and only have to do it once.

If you want a machine that will last go with a commercial machine. I know the price is much but the big box store machine cutting 2 to 3 acres will last maybe 5 years. Just my opinion

Agree with NorthBama,

But if you are stuck on a Liberty they now have a 61".

2-3 acres of mowing warrants a 60 inch deck. If you are going to do anything with a deck that large you are going to be in commercial mower territory. With the exception of the Toro MX6050, I am not aware of any other non-commercial mowers with a deck over 54". Not to mention, the Toro is going to have a "Toro" branded engine. Anything with a 60" fabricated deck and a Kawasaki engine is going to be $6k plus I would think. At those kinds of prices, have you considered a Garden Tractor? I do not know what other chores you will have to do on the property, or the terrain to which you will be using it (slopes, rough ground, etc.) but you can have a heck of a garden tractor in the same price range.

Also, you could purchase something like a Ferris 400S with a Kawasaki engine and spend around $4500 and get a suspension system to help with rough terrain. Unfortunately, its not just the engine, or the deck that will determine how long this thing will last. Many mower manufacturers use different hydraulic systems (separate pumps and motors vs integrated pumps/motors), different metal thicknesses on the deck and frame and of course the various series of engines (Kawasaki FR, FS, FX in your case). Ultimately you will be compromising something if your budget does not allow for everything you want. At the end of the day, some machines are built better, but all must be maintained to ensure the longest life.

cruzenmike said:

I am not aware of any other non-commercial mowers with a deck over 54".

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Here you go, Bob-Cat XRZ and XRZ Pro. https://www.bobcatturf.com/products/xrz/#productspecs https://www.bobcatturf.com/products/xrz-pro/#overview

Might be a bit much for a CRZ, but I guess it's an option. https://www.bobcatturf.com/products/crz/#productspecs

The XRZ PRO RS is really sweet! It's right on the edge of homeowner/commercial. https://www.bobcatturf.com/products/xrz-pro/#overview

Check out the Cub Cadet Ultima Series. If you go with the ZT2 models, they come with a ZT-2800 transmission and a Kawasaki engine. If you're thinking you want a really large deck, they have a 60" model and it runs for $4200.

I'm also looking for a zero turn this spring - I have about 3/4 of an acre to mow and looking for something to last me a long time. I'm considering stepping up to the ZT-2800 transmission for better longevity compared to the EZTs sold in many of the big box store models. I've researched/looked at several with the ZT-2800/Kawasaki combination, including the Scag Liberty Z, Ferris 400S, and Gravely ZT-XL. I'm waiting for my local dealer to get a Cub Cadet ZT2 so I can check it out.

Good luck in your search!

dmenn said:

Check out the Cub Cadet Ultima Series. If you go with the ZT2 models, they come with a ZT-2800 transmission and a Kawasaki engine. If you're thinking you want a really large deck, they have a 60" model and it runs for $4200.

I'm also looking for a zero turn this spring - I have about 3/4 of an acre to mow and looking for something to last me a long time. I'm considering stepping up to the ZT-2800 transmission for better longevity compared to the EZTs sold in many of the big box store models. I've researched/looked at several with the ZT-2800/Kawasaki combination, including the Scag Liberty Z, Ferris 400S, and Gravely ZT-XL. I'm waiting for my local dealer to get a Cub Cadet ZT2 so I can check it out.

Good luck in your search!

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I completely forgot about the Ultima series. The 60" with the Kawasaki looks good. Some guys on YouTube did a review of the new Cub Cadets and we're quite impressed with how it performed. And 2800s or better is a must for that much mowing. Having serviceable hydrostatics will greatly increase the life expectancy of the drive units.

Hustler SD60 is a great machine. I do a series of videos on the Hustler Raptor Super Duty. You can learn quite a lot following my videos about the machine. Good, bad and ugly. Everything from installing LED headlights, 12 power sockets, tail lights, Strobing Safety Lights facing side and back, flex forks, suspension seat kits, seat slider kits, ergonomic dash boards, tachometers to tune the engine by, hydro wheel motor tracking, deck leveling and much more.

We hold give away contests, all kinds of BS. Drop by, take a look, subscribe if they help you out and share. We try to help without trying to sell you anything.https://www.youtube.com/maxsgarajmahal

We also have a Hustler Mower Owner group in Failbook. https://www.facebook.com/groups/HustlerMowerOwners/

The group also has factory folks in it. I'm not giving out their names. You can simply ask them if you want to have a direct connection to the plant.

Give the Hustler Raptor Super Duty 60 a look. They are beasts.

Good luck in your choice,

Max

Rob89 said:

Hello everybody. I am looking for some advice on buying a new zero turn. I had an acre in Florida and mowed it with a Cub Cadet from Home Depot. Worked just fine for what I did with it. I moved to North Carolina a couple years ago and did not expect to have a yard for a while so I sold the Cub Cadet. Now I'm on a 3/4 acre and used a walk behind all last year. I will be on 5-10 acres in the next few years. I'm at the phase of my life where I want to buy something once correctly instead of buying incorrectly and having to re-buy in a couple years. So I want to buy a mower that will serve me well for my next yard but I want to buy it now because the thought of another year behind the walk behind on this current lot makes me miserable.

What I really want is the Scag Liberty Z however the price tag scares me. I'm willing to spend it to buy correctly and have something that will serve me well for the next 10+ years however I'm wondering if there is something else on the market that will serve me just as well that I just haven't come across yet and that's what I'm here asking your opinions for. I know I want a Kawasaki V-Twin motor and a 46"-52" fabricated deck. Is there any other mower I should be looking at that will go the long haul (10+ years) for me on 5-10 acres?

Thanks and I appreciate any help.

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There is nothing that I have ever seen in my part of the world that will out cut Scag mowers. I think if you are wanting to cut that much grass however you want to move up to atleast a Tiger Cat. 52" or 61". If you take reasonably good care of it maintenance wise it will last you as long as you want to run it.

The Velocity deck is incredible. Blade change is a snap. I am 62 and can change blades on a Tiger Cat with a cordless impact in under 5 minutes. The one I have left I(I sold 3 of mine last year cutting back some) has 2000 hours on it.

They are as good as you will get.

I went to a local dealer this morning and we put the Liberty Z and the CRZ side by side, both 52". I think for me the CRZ wins. The big specs are the same- Kawasaki engine, 2800 hydros, fabricated deck, etc. The Bobcat seemed to win in some of the details and intangibles. Front casters are taller with grease zerks, the deck is thicker with a lip on the front. There is a wheel well on the rear wheels which will go a long way to protecting the innards and keeping debris out. The innards are much more accessible for cleaning and service from the top, seat is more comfortable, cup holder is bigger and deeper, oil changes will be easier with the drain hose connected to the engine. Overall the Bobcat had a more solid feel to it and just felt a little more rugged. I didn't make a purchase, I still want to sleep on it the next day or two but I have a feeling come next week I'll be looking for the best price on the CRZ. This dealer wanted $4,800 and there is another dealer about an hour south of where I was this morning that wants $4,300. I think i'm willing to drive an extra hour to save $500.

Rob89 said:

I went to a local dealer this morning and we put the Liberty Z and the CRZ side by side, both 52". I think for me the CRZ wins. The big specs are the same- Kawasaki engine, 2800 hydros, fabricated deck, etc. The Bobcat seemed to win in some of the details and intangibles. Front casters are taller with grease zerks, the deck is thicker with a lip on the front. There is a wheel well on the rear wheels which will go a long way to protecting the innards and keeping debris out. The innards are much more accessible for cleaning and service from the top, seat is more comfortable, cup holder is bigger and deeper, oil changes will be easier with the drain hose connected to the engine. Overall the Bobcat had a more solid feel to it and just felt a little more rugged. I didn't make a purchase, I still want to sleep on it the next day or two but I have a feeling come next week I'll be looking for the best price on the CRZ. This dealer wanted $4,800 and there is another dealer about an hour south of where I was this morning that wants $4,300. I think i'm willing to drive an extra hour to save $500.

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Bob-Cat makes nice machines. If you step up to the XRZ you get the 691 engine, bigger tires, the higher grade HG3100 transmission and a faster speed. 2 or 3 acres is a good sized patch of grass. I think it would be wise to upgrade but it's not my money of course. A little better warranty too.

Just my opinion, but I feel that anything with an air cooled, vertical shaft engine is not what I'd consider 'long haul.'

cpurvis said:

Just my opinion, but I feel that anything with an air cooled, vertical shaft engine is not what I'd consider 'long haul.'

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It's all relative. Fore me, to get 2,000 trouble free hours out of it is long haul. I mow about 8 months / 75 hours a year. At that pace, its about 26 years to 2,000 hours. That constitutes long haul in my book.

Darryl G said:

Bob-Cat makes nice machines. If you step up to the XRZ you get the 691 engine, bigger tires, the higher grade HG3100 transmission and a faster speed. 2 or 3 acres is a good sized patch of grass. I think it would be wise to upgrade but it's not my money of course. A little better warranty too.

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That Velocity Deck on a Scag if you go with the Tiger Cat or above will out cut the Bobcat or they have in the grass we cut. The Scag will last you 20 years or longer...........

jekjr said:

That Velocity Deck on a Scag if you go with the Tiger Cat or above will out cut the Bobcat or they have in the grass we cut. The Scag will last you 20 years or longer...........

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No argument there but it seems like the OP is a long ways away from the Tiger Cat at the moment.

Bob-Cat makes well rounded smooth operating machines with excellent warranties. Mine has really grown on me. They have a new deck on their top models, the AirFX deck. Don't know how it stacks up against the competition yet.

Darryl G said:

No argument there but it seems like the OP is a long ways away from the Tiger Cat at the moment.

Bob-Cat makes well rounded smooth operating machines with excellent warranties. Mine has really grown on me. They have a new deck on their top models, the AirFX deck. Don't know how it stacks up against the competition yet.

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Yeah the Tiger Cat is about double what I'm looking to spend. I am debating the CRZ vs the XRZ but am having a hard time justifying the need for the XRZ. I think I am pretty set on the CRZ. I am going to try to find the best price and terms over the next couple days. The dealer I was at yesterday wants $4,800. There is a dealer an hour south of that place that wants $4,300. There is a third dealer that is only about 20 minutes from home that also wants $4,300 however the unit they have has been there sitting outside since last October. For the same money I think I'll take one fresh out of the crate. I am going to see if the dealer that wants $4,800 can come down to $4,300- I doubt it and I want to support the mom and pop shop but I'm not paying 11% more to do that. I'd be willing to pay maybe $100 more to support the local guy but that is about as much as I am willing to stretch.

Regardless, I think I'll be taking home a new CRZ in the next week or two. Now I need to find a break in all this rain to get it home. I have an open air utility trailer and it would kill me to bring home this brand new fresh out of the crate mower in the pouring rain!

Rob89 said:

It's all relative. Fore me, to get 2,000 trouble free hours out of it is long haul. I mow about 8 months / 75 hours a year. At that pace, its about 26 years to 2,000 hours. That constitutes long haul in my book.

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You may make it but I would not be surprised if you don't. You'd have a better chance of making it to 2000 hours if you ran it 8 hours per day, every day. Intermittent use of an engine is harder on an engine than continual use.

I'd try to get the best deal from the most convenient dealer if they are a good shop. That will likely be the dealer you'll go to for parts and service and they'll be much more helpful if it's their machine. Expect a cold shoulder there if you buy it somewhere else. I still vote for the XRZ for you though. Have you or can you take one for a spin? The 22 inch tires and the 3100 trans are a significant upgrade. 20 inch tires and 7 mph max on the CRZ is kind of slow for your acreage. By the way my FX691 is an excellent match with the 52 inch deck on my Fast-Cat Pro and has been flawless. Sweet engine!

Darryl G said:

I'd try to get the best deal from the most convenient dealer if they are a good shop. That will likely be the dealer you'll go to for parts and service and they'll be much more helpful if it's their machine. Expect a cold shoulder there if you buy it somewhere else. I still vote for the XRZ for you though. Have you or can you take one for a spin?

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I agree the shop you buy from will put you ahead others that bought from other places

X 3.................... I can verify that

I decided on the Bobcat CRZ 52”. Haven’t signed anything yet but I told the dealer I’m buying from to break one out of the crate and get it set up for me so I can pick it up tomorrow. I’m paying 4,299. The dealer I was at Saturday selling for 4,800 came down to 4,600 but the tone of their voices and demeanor changed after I challenged their pricing so I decided to move on. I just swept the trailer, put air in the tires and grease in the hubs since it hasn’t moved in some months.

Any tips on a pre delivery inspection before I sign my life away?

Congratulations. It depends how picky you want to get. Some dealers don't bother with really setting the machine up properly. They just uncrate it, do any final assembly and made sure it starts, goes and mows. What they should do is to deflate the tires to operating pressure (shipping pressures are pretty high), properly pitch and level the deck and make sure the drive levers/tracking are properly adjusted. It's nothing you can't do yourself, but it would be nice if every dealer considered it part of selling a machine. Maybe it's different on your seat, but the forward/backward adjustment on my seat had me stumped. You have to push it in towards the cushion to adjust...not very intuitive.

I think you will be happy with your choice enjoy your new toy

Thank you all! It will be dark by the time i get it home so will probably have to wait until tomorrow to try it out.

You'll have a scheduled oil change at 10 hours or something, so might want to pick up a filter and and couple of quarts of oil while you're there. Included with new machine purchase by my dealer, as is a T-shirt and hat, lol.

Darryl G said:

You'll have a scheduled oil change at 10 hours or something, so might want to pick up a filter and and couple of quarts of oil while you're there. Included with new machine purchase by my dealer, as is a T-shirt and hat, lol.

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Agreed, my Dealer also, I don't mind wearing their shirts if they treat me right. :thumbsup:

Ok guys- the deed is done. Picked it up this afternoon. I loaded it into the trailer with 0.1 hours on the meter. Some initial thoughts- The frame and deck are very robust- extremely robust compared to other brands and models I looked at. The Kawasaki motor is extremely smooth. Not sure why but the front wheels are not symmetrical- the passenger side front wheel extends out to that side farther than the driver side front wheel extends out to its own side. It rode harsh but the rear tires had about 25 psi and the front tires had about 40 psi. I adjusted it according to the manual so hopefully that will make the ride a little softer. The Bobcat spec for weight is pretty accurate. There was a CAT scale on my way home and I stopped and weighed my truck. I know that my F-250 with me and a full tank of gas and my 16' utility trailer empty weighs right at 9,500 pounds. Tonight I was 10,260 with the mower on the trailer so the Bobcat brochure is pretty accurate.

It was already night when I got home so no mowing tonight. I have some things to do tomorrow afternoon but may be able to sneak away for an hour or so between appts to give her a test run.

Here's to hoping for many many many trouble free years of mowing!!!

Grats!

The deck probably isn't adjusted properly if the tires were still at shipping pressure, so don't freak out if the cut quality isn't up to par. I really hate that dealers do that! You'll likely have to adjust the pitch and level yourself.

The whole deck is offset to the left to increase overhang and trimming ability on that side. I suspect that has something to do with the front caster placements.

I keep the hydro fluid a little high in my machine as it's difficult to see if it's at the full line which is very low in the reservoir and hard to see. With it a bit higher I can check at a glance. It's normal for the hydro oil levels to drop a little after first use because a little air may remain trapped inside the units and work it's way out. Be careful not to get any dust/dirt in the reservoirs!

Another common issue is low oil level on Kawasaki engines from dealers. They screw in the dipstick to check it. The proper way to check is without the dipstick screwed in. It's stamped right on the dipstick.

Darryl G said:

Grats!

The deck probably isn't adjusted properly if the tires were still at shipping pressure, so don't freak out if the cut quality isn't up to par. I really hate that dealers do that! You'll likely have to adjust the pitch and level yourself.

The whole deck is offset to the left to increase overhang and trimming ability on that side. I suspect that has something to do with the front caster placements.

I keep the hydro fluid a little high in my machine as it's difficult to see if it's at the full line which is very low in the reservoir and hard to see. With it a bit higher I can check at a glance.

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Thank you!

How do I adjust the deck? I do see that it is pitched up as in the front of the deck is slightly higher than the rear. Side to side appears to be pretty level.

I did also try to check the hydro fluid levels and I cannot get a good enough angle to see where they are at.

The deck adjustment procedure is in the manual. I haven't adjusted the deck on my Bob-Cat so I don't know that procedure. On my Exmark Z I loosen the chains to drop the deck on precision thickness blocks, then tighten it all back up. Varies by manufacturer and deck. In general you want the deck lower in the front by 1/8 to 1/4 inch. That's known as toed. For my Bob-Cat Dura-Deck they say it cuts best level, but my dealer sets them up with the back slightly lower (heeled) and I've left it that way. You end up cutting each blade of grass twice, which is great to eliminate missed blades of grass, but it requires more power and can lead to discharge/clumping issues. It's generally not advisable. It really all depends on your particular cutting conditions and the characteristics of your deck, but healing isn't the norm, toeing is.

You may also have an adjustable front lip. I can't recall if the CRZ has that. Again that depends on cutting conditions whether you run it up or down. It's easy enough to experiment with.

And yeah, that's why I fill my reservoirs a bit over the fill line. It's just an expansion tank so I just run it 1/2 inch or so above the line where I can see it. Not going to hurt anything and still plenty room for expansion.

Darryl G said:

The deck adjustment procedure is in the manual. I haven't adjusted the deck on my Bob-Cat so I don't know that procedure. On my Exmark Z I loosen the chains to drop the deck on precision thickness blocks, then tighten it all back up. Varies by manufacturer and deck. In general you want the deck lower in the front by 1/8 to 1/4 inch. That's known as toed. For my Bob-Cat Dura-Deck they say it cuts best level, but my dealer sets them up with the back slightly lower (heeled) and I've left it that way. You end up cutting each blade of grass twice, which is great to eliminate missed blades of grass, but it requires more power and can lead to discharge/clumping issues. It's generally not advisable. It really all depends on your particular cutting conditions and the characteristics of your deck, but healing isn't the norm, toeing is.

You may also have an adjustable front lip. I can't recall if the CRZ has that. Again that depends on cutting conditions whether you run it up or down. It's easy enough to experiment with.

And yeah, that's why I fill my reservoirs a bit over the fill line. It's just an expansion tank so I just run it 1/2 inch or so above the line where I can see it. Not going to hurt anything and still plenty room for expansion.

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Thanks, I will look into doing that too. I have hydraulic fluid in my garage but the manual calls for 20-50W engine oil so I'll have to pick some up. I also found the deck adjustment in the manual- looks like you said, to drop the deck on some blocks and then there's a couple bolts to take loose.

The mower should have come to you ready to mow and it appears that it really isn't. Sadly that's pretty common. You can mow with it with the pitch off until you get to adjusting it, but your cut quality will likely suffer.

I know you said that your lawn is fairly level, but just a word of advise on operation. Z mowers have control issues going down slopes because the weight of the machine shifts to the front wheels which you have no control of. To maintain traction and control on slopes, operate the mower so that you maintain weight on the rear wheels.

Expect to rip the lawn up a bit on turns, especially at first when the tires are brand new and "sharp" and you're inexperienced on it. It's just like pushing a heavy shopping cart, the way you push with one hand and pull with the other. A lot of inexperienced operators "one-stick" their turns which causes the inside tire to pivot while stationary and cause turf tearing. The proper way is to separate the sticks on turns...as soon as the inside tire stops going forward it should be reversing. Some people never get the hang of it or just do 3-point turns.

If you find the ride is still too harsh you can add the suspension seat base.

Darryl G said:

The mower should have come to you ready to mow and it appears that it really isn't. Sadly that's pretty common. You can mow with it with the pitch off until you get to adjusting it, but your cut quality will likely suffer.

I know you said that your lawn is fairly level, but just a word of advise on operation. Z mowers have control issues going down slopes because the weight of the machine shifts to the front wheels which you have no control of. To maintain traction and control on slopes, operate the mower so that you maintain weight on the rear wheels.

Expect to rip the lawn up a bit on turns, especially at first when the tires are brand new and "sharp" and you're inexperienced on it. It's just like pushing a heavy shopping cart, the way you push with one hand and pull with the other. A lot of inexperienced operators "one-stick" their turns which causes the inside tire to pivot while stationary and cause turf tearing. The proper way is to separate the sticks on turns...as soon as the inside tire stops going forward it should be reversing. Some people never get the hang of it or just do 3-point turns.

If you find the ride is still too harsh you can add the suspension seat base.

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Thank you for all the help and advice! My property is a steady 2-3% incline from the street all the way back. It is also pie shaped so I have lots of front/side yard and less backyard. The pattern I used to push mow was to go side to side because that way I wasn't scaling the incline/decline 100 times. I think I will try to use the same pattern with the Bobcat to keep the weight on the rear wheels and any potential control issue at bay with the decline.

I did practice my turning for a few minutes last night but not for long. I was separating the sticks going around the trees but I am definitely inexperienced and will need a few hours on it to really get comfortable.

I'm in North Carolina in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains and we really have no clear cut dry season. Every season is varying levels of wet. The ground is almost always saturated because of this. Is it OK to spray water from a garden hose under my deck after each mow to get rid of the build up and clumping from wet grass?

Yeah, that pattern should work fine, from the bottom up or if from the top down and make your turns uphill.

If you do get stuck be sure to release both sides of the hydros with the levers on the back before pushing/pulling/towing it out!

I would advise keeping water away from your deck, as the bearings can draw in moisture, especially right after mowing when the spindles are warm/hot. Better to blow the upper parts of the mower off with a blower or compressed air and to scrape the deck with a putty knife, Bondo scraper or other scraping tool. My mowers are often trailered around so it's convenient for me to just pull onto my trailer with one front wheel on the ramp to get under it. Alternately you can pull it onto auto ramps, use a floor jack and axle stands or get a mower jack designed for the purpose. If you're strong you can just lift the front of the mower up and slide an axle stand under it with your foot. I throw down a tarp to lie on and to go under the deck to collect the crud. It's best done before it all dries.

BTW, I love the Blue Ridge Mountains! I've driven through them several times, driving the length of the Blue Ridge Parkway and hiked through them on the Appalachian Trail.

Yeah we love this area. We love it in the summer when its 85 degrees at home and we can run an hour up the mountain and its only 70-75 degrees.

I have a plastic scraper for today assuming it doesn't rain and I have enough time between my 3:30PM and 6PM appts to go play on it for a few minutes. I will probably use the car ramps on a normal basis as my trailer doesn't get moved all that often.

A good reason to buy new...some people think Zero-Turn mowers are toys! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar_ci70Gklg&t=99s

I feel for the unsuspecting second owner who has to buy used because he can't quite afford new.