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Briggs Intek, replaced everything, still surging.. Ideas?
#1
L
loopback1957
L
loopback1957
Own a JD La115 with an Briggs Intek 19.5 engine. Have an issue with surging and backfiring when not under load. Have replaced fuel filter, gaskets, carburetor, spark plug, fuel pump, ignition coil/spark plug wire, air filter, adjusted valves, pumped out and refilled gas tank. Still have a surge/race condition and random backfire happening at any throttle position while at rest and during movement, it does smooth out when I engage the mower blades. I noted another post about surginng which indicated that the safety switch could somehow be involved, not sure I understand hwo that could be. Completely out of ideas and open to suggestions.
#2
StarTech
StarTech
Sounds the high speed idle circuit is too lean. Applying a little choke should clean it up and it does then it is a lean burn issue.
#3
A
Auto Doc's
Please provide the number information stamped in the top of the valve cover on the engine.
Lack of proper choke operation is my initial thought with this running problem.
Next idea is the carburetor to cylinder block seal is leaking.
A
Auto Doc's
A safety switch would not produce this kind of problem.Own a JD La115 with an Briggs Intek 19.5 engine. Have an issue with surging and backfiring when not under load. Have replaced fuel filter, gaskets, carburetor, spark plug, fuel pump, ignition coil/spark plug wire, air filter, adjusted valves, pumped out and refilled gas tank. Still have a surge/race condition and random backfire happening at any throttle position while at rest and during movement, it does smooth out when I engage the mower blades. I noted another post about surginng which indicated that the safety switch could somehow be involved, not sure I understand hwo that could be. Completely out of ideas and open to suggestions.
Please provide the number information stamped in the top of the valve cover on the engine.
Lack of proper choke operation is my initial thought with this running problem.
Next idea is the carburetor to cylinder block seal is leaking.
#4
L
loopback1957
L
loopback1957
Model 31P677 Type 0132 B1 Code 080213ZDA safety switch would not produce this kind of problem.
Please provide the number information stamped in the top of the valve cover on the engine.
Lack of proper choke operation is my initial thought with this running problem.
Next idea is the carburetor to cylinder block seal is leaking.
#5
L
loopback1957
L
loopback1957
Checked choke operation and linkage, choke appears to be opening and closing as it should. Will check carburetor to cylinder block and reseal with new gasket tonight.Model 31P677 Type 0132 B1 Code 080213ZD
#6
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loopback1957
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loopback1957
Sounds the high speed idle circuit is too lean. Applying a little choke should clean it up and it does then it is a lean burn issue.
#7
L
loopback1957
L
loopback1957
Will check tonightSounds the high speed idle circuit is too lean. Applying a little choke should clean it up and it does then it is a lean burn issue.
#8
S
slomo
S
slomo
All those OEM Briggs parts? If not, every one will require testing. Could have a Chinese carb. Counterfeit plug. Over torqued gasket sealing area. Set valves wrong, IN and should of been EX.
No load it hunts. Under load with blades on, it smooths out. Would of thought the other way around.
Where is it backfiring from exactly? Carb or muffler? Could be a slipped flywheel key.
Tank needs to be inspected for full flow into a glass jar or fuel can. Any elbows will catch trash and clog the flow from the tank.pumped out and refilled gas tank.
No load it hunts. Under load with blades on, it smooths out. Would of thought the other way around.
Where is it backfiring from exactly? Carb or muffler? Could be a slipped flywheel key.
#9
S
slomo
S
slomo
What RPM is this happening at? Are you running her at low revs? If you are under 3400 revs, not recommended due to lack of air cooling and lubrication.
#10
O
Oddjob
O
Oddjob
I was recently gifted a Craftsman YS4500 with a 20HP Briggs single cylinder. It had been sitting in a neighbor’s garage for at least 5 years, probably longer, because “it was blowing smoke out of the muffler.” It turned out to be a blown head gasket. Looking at the consumer comments of those who bought head gaskets for Intek engines, I learned that these big Briggs Inteks go through head gaskets like the Gabor sisters went through husbands. In my research I also read that a bad head gasket could cause surging. I notice that you have replaced everything else. So, maybe do a leak down test and eliminate the head gasket as the cause. Or, just replace it. Intek head gaskets are really cheap and easy to replace and if your engine is typical, you’ll need to replace it in a year or two anyway. Good luck.
#11
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
Briggs 17.5 to 21 HP single cylinder engines are more prone to blow head gaskets, then comes the twin cylinder Briggs. However, it is not a common occurrence as stated above. If you replaced OEM carburetor with aftermarket carburetor and engine is hunting and surging, obviously it is running lean. You have an air leak, a carburetor that needs special attention, or learn how to live with it.I was recently gifted a Craftsman YS4500 with a 20HP Briggs single cylinder. It had been sitting in a neighbor’s garage for at least 5 years, probably longer, because “it was blowing smoke out of the muffler.” It turned out to be a blown head gasket. Looking at the consumer comments of those who bought head gaskets for Intek engines, I learned that these big Briggs Inteks go through head gaskets like the Gabor sisters went through husbands. In my research I also read that a bad head gasket could cause surging. I notice that you have replaced everything else. So, maybe do a leak down test and eliminate the head gasket as the cause. Or, just replace it. Intek head gaskets are really cheap and easy to replace and if your engine is typical, you’ll need to replace it in a year or two anyway. Good luck.
#12
L
loopback1957
L
loopback1957
Yes, did that when I replaced ignition coil, also checked the flywheel key to ensure it was not torqued or brokenWhat RPM is this happening at? Are you running her at low revs? If you are under 3400 revs, not recommended due to lack of air cooling and lubrication.
#13
L
loopback1957
L
loopback1957
Yes, did that when I replaced ignition coil, also checked the flywheel key to ensure it was not torqued or brokenWhat RPM is this happening at? Are you running her at low revs? If you are under 3400 revs, not recommended due to lack of air cooling and lubrication.
All those OEM Briggs parts? If not, every one will require testing. Could have a Chinese carb. Counterfeit plug. Over torqued gasket sealing area. Set valves wrong, IN and should of been EX.
Tank needs to be inspected for full flow into a glass jar or fuel can. Any elbows will catch trash and clog the flow from the tank.
No load it hunts. Under load with blades on, it smooths out. Would of thought the other way around.
Where is it backfiring from exactly? Carb or muffler? Could be a slipped flywheel key.
What RPM is this happening at? Are you running her at low revs? If you are under 3400 revs, not recommended due to lack of air cooling and lubrication.
#14
A
Auto Doc's
A
Auto Doc's
Check the fuel line back at the tank (should be on left side top of tank and under the driver platform) where it comes out and bends down and goes the front. Old fuel lines on this series would collapse internally. Do not use cheap Amazon or Ebay purchased fuel line. Go to the parts store and find some Gates brand hose if you can.
Bulk fuel line off the internet is genuine garbage that will break down with Ethanol fuels. I had to throw a bunch of that stuff away.
Bulk fuel line off the internet is genuine garbage that will break down with Ethanol fuels. I had to throw a bunch of that stuff away.
#15
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loopback1957
L
loopback1957
I very much want to thank all the people whom took the time to reply, all were great answers and I followed up on all of them. I turned out that StarTech and Slomo were correct about the carburetor issue, slomo indirectly because it was indeed an aftermarket issue. I sprayed around the throttle valve with carb cleaner and it immediately smoothed out. So I dipped my old carb, did a rebuild today and it is working fine. The aftermarket carb that I replaced my original with was obviously defective. Again, thanks for all the help.
#16
S
slomo
Also don't buy the cheapest Chinese carb you can find. Get the more expensive one, same part number, with more reviews and units sold. No guarantee of anything on that. The more expensive ones in my experience are way better and have had for the most part great luck with.
S
slomo
Ah maybe yes and no. On the Chinese carbs, I've found you have to open her all up and see if something needs attention. Like float levels and several other differences. Make sure the needle/seat holds at 7psi for 30+ mins. Jets are the same size........The aftermarket carb that I replaced my original with was obviously defective.
Also don't buy the cheapest Chinese carb you can find. Get the more expensive one, same part number, with more reviews and units sold. No guarantee of anything on that. The more expensive ones in my experience are way better and have had for the most part great luck with.
#17
kbowley
kbowley
Buy an OEM carburetor.
#18
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
When an OEM carburetor is sometimes 5 to 10 times the cost of an aftermarket carburetor, it may just be worth the gamble…Buy an OEM carburetor.
#19
kbowley
kbowley
Until I personally see one small engine with a Chinese carb run correctly with my own eyes, and I have been doing this for 40 years and haven't seen one yet, I say it is a complete waste of money. An OEM carburetor works perfectly every time.When an OEM carburetor is sometimes 5 to 10 times the cost of an aftermarket carburetor, it may just be worth the gamble…
#20
S
slomo
S
slomo
Since I stopped buying the cheapest "China" carb, my luck has drastically improved. Maybe a get what you pay for deal???
#21
J
JimP2014
J
JimP2014
Hello I believe I own the same engine so I have an LT 2000 Craftsman it has a 19.5 horsepower OHV engine last summer I was troubleshooting All kinds of various problems with the engine it seemed each day there is a new problem to make a long story short after 6 weeks I took off what was a brand new carburetor and put on another brand new carburetor I made zero adjustments on the second brand new carburetor and everything ran well to this day it still runs perfectly I suggest getting another carburetor. I also can tell you the carburetor that runs perfectly in my machine if interested.
Jim
Jim
#22
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
I put cheap Chinese carburetors on all the time. They are usually plug and play. I also don’t get comebacks as a result.Until I personally see one small engine with a Chinese carb run correctly with my own eyes, and I have been doing this for 40 years and haven't seen one yet, I say it is a complete waste of money. An OEM carburetor works perfectly every time.
#23
J
JimP2014
J
JimP2014
My carburetor cost $22 it's a cheaply made Chinese carburetor I assume my objective is to get the lawn mower to work well enough to cut the lawn that's exactly what it does is there more involved here that I don't know?I put cheap Chinese carburetors on all the time. They are usually plug and play. I also don’t get comebacks as a result.
#24
J
JimP2014
In an unrelated manner and this has to do with a Honda Accord if you simply go to a shop and replace the starter even with a well made part from Mopar or wherever they come from it will not run correctly what will happen is you'll end up with another error code and that has to do with the crankshaft position sensor switch so you think that's the problem it has nothing to do with it it goes back to the starter as it turns out the Honda starter for this model turns at a very high RPM and if the downstream part which is the crankshaft position sensor switch does not see high RPMs it throws an error code that there's something wrong with the crankshaft position sensor switch this part meaning the starter needs to be replaced by a Honda starter otherwise you're going to run some problems.
So how does one determine for any machine when do you need the exact replacement part or when can you use some sort of knockoff and I don't know the answer of that but I know the carburetor that I bought for $22 and for my Briggs& Stratton engine works fine
Jim
J
JimP2014
But I can also tell the story to defend what K boley believes to be true.My carburetor cost $22 it's a cheaply made Chinese carburetor I assume my objective is to get the lawn mower to work well enough to cut the lawn that's exactly what it does is there more involved here that I don't know?
In an unrelated manner and this has to do with a Honda Accord if you simply go to a shop and replace the starter even with a well made part from Mopar or wherever they come from it will not run correctly what will happen is you'll end up with another error code and that has to do with the crankshaft position sensor switch so you think that's the problem it has nothing to do with it it goes back to the starter as it turns out the Honda starter for this model turns at a very high RPM and if the downstream part which is the crankshaft position sensor switch does not see high RPMs it throws an error code that there's something wrong with the crankshaft position sensor switch this part meaning the starter needs to be replaced by a Honda starter otherwise you're going to run some problems.
So how does one determine for any machine when do you need the exact replacement part or when can you use some sort of knockoff and I don't know the answer of that but I know the carburetor that I bought for $22 and for my Briggs& Stratton engine works fine
Jim
#25
O
Oddjob
I have the 20HP single cylinder Intek. The mower sat for at least 5 years, had no fuel shutoff switch, and there was still a quart of stale gas in the tank, so imagine how much gas had evaporated in the carb bowl over that time. I took a picture of the bowl because I had never seen one that had enough crud in it that you could scoop it out with a spoon. I am not a pro but I have been sorting carburetors for more than 50 years so I took this one on. The needle valve has a rubber tip and it looked questionable but it held pressure when I blew into the fuel line connector. I cleaned the carb as I had hundreds of times, but the motor surged terribly. Tried again, it was better but not good. When I shut it down fuel leaked out of the bowl. The needle valve was toast. That little piece of plastic sells for $16. I chose to buy the cheap Chinese knockoff for $16 figuring that if it didn’t work that I could use the needle valve to fix the OEM carb. The Chinese carb worked perfectly right out of the box.
O
Oddjob
Please pardon the long story, I promise to connect back to the topic.I put cheap Chinese carburetors on all the time. They are usually plug and play. I also don’t get comebacks as a result.
I have the 20HP single cylinder Intek. The mower sat for at least 5 years, had no fuel shutoff switch, and there was still a quart of stale gas in the tank, so imagine how much gas had evaporated in the carb bowl over that time. I took a picture of the bowl because I had never seen one that had enough crud in it that you could scoop it out with a spoon. I am not a pro but I have been sorting carburetors for more than 50 years so I took this one on. The needle valve has a rubber tip and it looked questionable but it held pressure when I blew into the fuel line connector. I cleaned the carb as I had hundreds of times, but the motor surged terribly. Tried again, it was better but not good. When I shut it down fuel leaked out of the bowl. The needle valve was toast. That little piece of plastic sells for $16. I chose to buy the cheap Chinese knockoff for $16 figuring that if it didn’t work that I could use the needle valve to fix the OEM carb. The Chinese carb worked perfectly right out of the box.
#26
J
JimP2014
J
JimP2014
And just so you know the entire story with a Honda Accord so the error code is p0339 I know this by heart that means there's something wrong with the crankshaft position sensor switch so I spent $400 to have the crankshaft position sensor switch replaced there was nothing wrong with it a week later the same error code was triggered I finally went to a Honda dealer they said yeah it triggers that code but the problem is the starter and then they replace the starter so like I said sometimes you need the original part sometimes you don't in the case of a carburetor so you might throw away 20 or 30 bucks because you made the wrong call but I still think it's worth it.
#27
J
JimP2014
J
JimP2014
Hey odd job I saw your long story it's only like 50 words do you have a longer version of your long story just curious?
#28
Etbrown44
Etbrown44
Been doing small engine repair 65 years. Have installed 100s of Chinese carbs and only encountered 2 or 3 bad ones. Those odds work for me.
#29
J
JimP2014
J
JimP2014
Carbhub 594605 Carburetor for 594605 792768 591734 594603 Single Cylinder Engine Replacement Carburetor - 594605 Carburetor. Hey read my other post s if you care to but after 3 months this is the one that works I use the same schematics you use for your engine try this carburetor if it doesn't run let me knowOwn a JD La115 with an Briggs Intek 19.5 engine. Have an issue with surging and backfiring when not under load. Have replaced fuel filter, gaskets, carburetor, spark plug, fuel pump, ignition coil/spark plug wire, air filter, adjusted valves, pumped out and refilled gas tank. Still have a surge/race condition and random backfire happening at any throttle position while at rest and during movement, it does smooth out when I engage the mower blades. I noted another post about surginng which indicated that the safety switch could somehow be involved, not sure I understand hwo that could be. Completely out of ideas and open to suggestions.
#30
kbowley
kbowley
Until I personally see one small engine with a Chinese carb run correctly with my own eyes, and I have been doing this for 40 years and haven't seen one yet, I say it is a complete waste of money. An OEM carburetor works perfectly every time.When an OEM carburetor is sometimes 5 to 10 times the cost of an aftermarket carburetor, it may just be worth the gamble…
#31
kbowley
As I said, when I have seen one run correctly with my own eyes, I'll believe it. Until then, I'll stick with OEM. I have replaced countless Chinese carbs that customers purchase and can't figure out why they don't run right (stating, "but it's a brand-new carb"). The OEM parts are reasonably priced, typically costing less than 100.00 for a single large engine and less than 50.00 for a mower, and they consistently function flawlessly. I fix them correctly with OEM parts, and it has served me well. Look at my reviews on the web. Customers do not mind even a little as long as the machine is fixed right. I know, without a doubt, that the OEM will run right, and I don't have time to deal with returns, replacements, comebacks, complaints, etc. I take actions that I am confident will resolve the problem. Last week, I tried out a product from Amazon designed for a Tecumseh LEV195 engine. It even came with a spark plug, fuel line, filter, and an extra primer bulb for my Toro Personal Pace mower. I use this mower in front of the shop. To no surprise, it surges intensely for about 10 seconds before stalling. Junk. I ordered the OEM for 42.00, and I guarantee it will run perfectly when I put it on. It's merely an inconvenience. I knew better than to even attempt it. This is the carb I bought.
kbowley
I put cheap Chinese carburetors on all the time. They are usually plug and play. I also don’t get comebacks as a result.
As I said, when I have seen one run correctly with my own eyes, I'll believe it. Until then, I'll stick with OEM. I have replaced countless Chinese carbs that customers purchase and can't figure out why they don't run right (stating, "but it's a brand-new carb"). The OEM parts are reasonably priced, typically costing less than 100.00 for a single large engine and less than 50.00 for a mower, and they consistently function flawlessly. I fix them correctly with OEM parts, and it has served me well. Look at my reviews on the web. Customers do not mind even a little as long as the machine is fixed right. I know, without a doubt, that the OEM will run right, and I don't have time to deal with returns, replacements, comebacks, complaints, etc. I take actions that I am confident will resolve the problem. Last week, I tried out a product from Amazon designed for a Tecumseh LEV195 engine. It even came with a spark plug, fuel line, filter, and an extra primer bulb for my Toro Personal Pace mower. I use this mower in front of the shop. To no surprise, it surges intensely for about 10 seconds before stalling. Junk. I ordered the OEM for 42.00, and I guarantee it will run perfectly when I put it on. It's merely an inconvenience. I knew better than to even attempt it. This is the carb I bought.
#32
J
JimP2014
J
JimP2014
Until I personally see one small engine with a Chinese carb run correctly with my own eyes, and I have been doing this for 40 years and haven't seen one yet, I say it is a complete waste of money. An OEM carburetor works
#33
L
LMPPLUS
L
LMPPLUS
As someone has said if your parts we're internet purchase only a few have any quality control, be suspect of them all.
#34
S
Sean2202
S
Sean2202
Hello, could you explain the method that you use to test 7psi for 30 mins on a carb that is not attached to an engine. I would like to try this on a carb I have on my shelf to test the needle and seat. Carb is from B&S 356447-0200G1 18hp v-twin carb#843325, has fuel solenoid valve on bottom of carb as well.Ah maybe yes and no. On the Chinese carbs, I've found you have to open her all up and see if something needs attention. Like float levels and several other differences. Make sure the needle/seat holds at 7psi for 30+ mins. Jets are the same size........
#35
S
slomo
S
slomo
Mower carbs work like a toilet. Flip the carb over. Float should shut off the fuel flow into the bowl. Take a hand pump and put vacuum on the carb needle at 7pst for 30+ mins. Hook pump hose to the fuel inlet tube on carb body. Or youtube carb pressure testing. Several good videos out there. One in mind is the mower lady. She has a vid showing you how to test 2 strokes as well.
#36
Tiger Small Engine
Tiger Small Engine
One aftermarket carburetor that didn’t work as an example, is not exactly like having a hundred aftermarket carburetors that didn’t work for you, one after another. I am not trying to stir the pot, just saying that my experience, and many others online that I have read, has been good with cheap Chinese carburetors, and a wide variety of other parts for that matter. A $42 OEM carburetor vs aftermarket is also not a good cost difference. How about $20 versus $150?As I said, when I have seen one run correctly with my own eyes, I'll believe it. Until then, I'll stick with OEM. I have replaced countless Chinese carbs that customers purchase and can't figure out why they don't run right (stating, "but it's a brand-new carb"). The OEM parts are reasonably priced, typically costing less than 100.00 for a single large engine and less than 50.00 for a mower, and they consistently function flawlessly. I fix them correctly with OEM parts, and it has served me well. Look at my reviews on the web. Customers do not mind even a little as long as the machine is fixed right. I know, without a doubt, that the OEM will run right, and I don't have time to deal with returns, replacements, comebacks, complaints, etc. I take actions that I am confident will resolve the problem. Last week, I tried out a product from Amazon designed for a Tecumseh LEV195 engine. It even came with a spark plug, fuel line, filter, and an extra primer bulb for my Toro Personal Pace mower. I use this mower in front of the shop. To no surprise, it surges intensely for about 10 seconds before stalling. Junk. I ordered the OEM for 42.00, and I guarantee it will run perfectly when I put it on. It's merely an inconvenience. I knew better than to even attempt it. This is the carb I bought.