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Briggs Coil Replacement, Restoration (Model 92502)
#1
T
TylerFrankel
T
TylerFrankel
Hello All!
I recently was fortunate enough to acquire 4 free briggs and Stratton mower engines. They are all unmounted, but all of them have blade mounts on them. Their model numbers are (2x 92502), (93502), (92982) I'm going to refurbish these in my free time to have for various uses or to sell, and I need some help. I decided to start with what seemed like the oldest and dirtiest of them, a cream color 92502.
This one was so dirty I decided before I even tried to start it I would clean it up, so I decided to tear it down. I'm pretty new to this, so I dove right in figuring since they were free I could throw caution to the wind, and since I had a duplicate model I could see how to rebuild it based on the other one. Long story short, I managed to easily remove the air filter, carb/gas tank, air shroud/starter coil, the throttle assembly, auto-choke, and block head. Then I ran into trouble with the coil. It, oddly enough, is attached directly to the points without being removable, but I didn't know this and blindly broke the brittle wire off since most just pull off a little metal plate (facepalm). This coil was attached with a wire directly, and I don't know how to replace it. I assume since the coil was wired directly, the removable part is within the points/condenser (if anyone knows why this is please let me know). Unfortunately I didn't check for spark before disassembling, but I removed what seem to be two ground wires, one that was on the coil and one that ran from under the flywheel from the points to a metal bracket on the throttle control thing that lines up with the head. SO I figure I have to replace the coil or find a way to solder a tiny wire together that is broken off so close to the base that there isn't enough insulation to expose to make a connection.... but I can't get the damn flywheel off because it's so tight. I don't have an air hammer or flywheel puller, so I suppose I'll have to get those. I also tried to remove the sump from the bottom and succeeded (in spilling oil I thought I had drained completely) but it can't come off because the blade mount is rusted solid on there, and again, I don't have a proper puller.
Anyway..... I figure the sump and flywheel can be left alone and I can just clean up what I've done and reassemble everything IF I can find a way to repair the coil without accessing the points. Anyone else ever experience this type of issue with the coil, or have tips on how to correct it? Some pics for reference are attached. Thanks!
(Above: Green circle is ground (I think); Red circle is stub of wire that broke off from main wire coming from points).
Edit:
Tomorrow I will upload pictures of the engine where the coil wires are and where the other ground wire went
I suspect the other one may have had to do with the safety mechanism in some way since it was near the throttle assy.
with this in mind I was wondering if anyone has an idea of how I would go about starting one of these with no throttle cable or start/stop lever attached
Also, how dangerous is it to start without a blade? I've heard kickback is a concern, but assuming the alternative is leaving a blade attached and trying to start that I'd prefer risking bruising my knuckles for a week.
I recently was fortunate enough to acquire 4 free briggs and Stratton mower engines. They are all unmounted, but all of them have blade mounts on them. Their model numbers are (2x 92502), (93502), (92982) I'm going to refurbish these in my free time to have for various uses or to sell, and I need some help. I decided to start with what seemed like the oldest and dirtiest of them, a cream color 92502.
This one was so dirty I decided before I even tried to start it I would clean it up, so I decided to tear it down. I'm pretty new to this, so I dove right in figuring since they were free I could throw caution to the wind, and since I had a duplicate model I could see how to rebuild it based on the other one. Long story short, I managed to easily remove the air filter, carb/gas tank, air shroud/starter coil, the throttle assembly, auto-choke, and block head. Then I ran into trouble with the coil. It, oddly enough, is attached directly to the points without being removable, but I didn't know this and blindly broke the brittle wire off since most just pull off a little metal plate (facepalm). This coil was attached with a wire directly, and I don't know how to replace it. I assume since the coil was wired directly, the removable part is within the points/condenser (if anyone knows why this is please let me know). Unfortunately I didn't check for spark before disassembling, but I removed what seem to be two ground wires, one that was on the coil and one that ran from under the flywheel from the points to a metal bracket on the throttle control thing that lines up with the head. SO I figure I have to replace the coil or find a way to solder a tiny wire together that is broken off so close to the base that there isn't enough insulation to expose to make a connection.... but I can't get the damn flywheel off because it's so tight. I don't have an air hammer or flywheel puller, so I suppose I'll have to get those. I also tried to remove the sump from the bottom and succeeded (in spilling oil I thought I had drained completely) but it can't come off because the blade mount is rusted solid on there, and again, I don't have a proper puller.
Anyway..... I figure the sump and flywheel can be left alone and I can just clean up what I've done and reassemble everything IF I can find a way to repair the coil without accessing the points. Anyone else ever experience this type of issue with the coil, or have tips on how to correct it? Some pics for reference are attached. Thanks!
(Above: Green circle is ground (I think); Red circle is stub of wire that broke off from main wire coming from points).
Edit:
Tomorrow I will upload pictures of the engine where the coil wires are and where the other ground wire went
I suspect the other one may have had to do with the safety mechanism in some way since it was near the throttle assy.
with this in mind I was wondering if anyone has an idea of how I would go about starting one of these with no throttle cable or start/stop lever attached
Also, how dangerous is it to start without a blade? I've heard kickback is a concern, but assuming the alternative is leaving a blade attached and trying to start that I'd prefer risking bruising my knuckles for a week.
#2
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#4
T
TylerFrankel
Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. This is very helpful information. What you're saying here is that I can simply use the electronic ignition coils and bypass the old points and condenser, which is probably what I want to do in order to prevent the need for removing the flywheel, especially since the wires seem worn badly. However I have a few questions.
1. With the wire that comes from the base of the flywheel out of the condenser and travels to the area near the throttle assy, I am assuming this has to do with the kill switch, or is that the wire I showed in the picture? In other words, if I replace this, will I need to cut the wire from the points and solder it to the prong on the new coil to act as a kill switch, or what? Basically how will the kill switch be affected by this, and if I ignore it can the kill switch just be overridden if it's disconnected.
2. My flywheel has two magnets since its a point and condenser system, but I thought the new flywheels for electronic ignition have one? If so, can i simply block off a magnet with tape or scrape it out to prevent double ignition? Or will the electronic ignition's transistors account for this?
3. Would this work as a coil? (Its third party but I want to test the system before spending 40-50 dollars)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electronic-Ignition-Coil-For-Briggs-Stratton-695711-802574-796964-126700-121700/152638330265?hash=item2389f41599:rk:5
f:1&checksum=15263833026590f1abf6651842848ac7e6197139e5a5&enc=AQADAAADABkojIFHYtWT%2BANpG6F7t2H2ziylClm81yGy1RFb5mReYyRWQNe9Ks4r4z%2Bj15CMaa8Mz5LulrGpO%2FXcv%2BUq1kqi2pFWCgNIfFiv0f1CIbCWzYE153vRJRrAKLNWAkL0hKl9BGmw2T9rPH4ZBiaLXq97ovgIAStFx%2FhrfeH%2BbaGtnMAUb9RmArFCqNbwaTgx6aOhiHel0drxv%2Bqvg0LL1lGeVlHEr5FzZVEHc%2BK2Zz1Z749t379WW4iAEwccwqZOE5HafQF2GA5NgbwTX0D0MBMk6usEg0sbjofNkZjj8DAHmkKtQaWXZKiIQuUhmOnXNvCmUBLqT6KqDXTz0zhjGCqT0gF8eJsHYc%2BxH6lOyGONmFTjompSm9X%2FVKI4%2FGxpsDVtXB7J3gSAUuq1MlU8W%2FopctiATKlw2WCxuwCuWQCZ05ZL9XmcyybAektKQuNr6cvFrALR6crqu5HjjXeMUWDKpQegecoSzf2268Ui0wEjpQvGKgOJTf%2FpDJIcKtbXgz6TyGbLQf4061kaJrNb7aRIhjQqrOBMvzuJZ2fpYfqlLPstybKNcoamGNFqOubVF8IER7jEuPOkznqTFso%2Fm94lkoHu8l3xKqVOjG%2F6RLJ2uyZKsCFjc2iiWKcCczO014SeiHA8NRYeMgV0g0Jd4XC5x11sHVRAWGlk3GL4PA%2Fafv1Nd9tkKmR%2Fn3UsbixgM8Ps2Pt6H21RyjuoH6JP%2BMKg53tNQ53KtjiEiONqfrAF%2BkfYsRo9WAIaLRLaASwGzN8rxGioZ87Oja28Vafq4L1YfRbygHA%2Bw44Zfc%2F2A4TFQi1aQx3mwpMofTezXIqA9nsMtZ%2BMCmBk%2BAuHh47903Rt7yMwgZ0O%2FVhCM24gjftjqUEZO%2B7iqZo4ASkprm%2FdnRtZXuNXDioJwZHr9gRhkFOG7bQpxSuWUMURL8pO5B1vTNsYRzXcjNuSxINqn8wK0WbZZlFhrwzdSDrZtSPEl2ohSUqxHXHgjEDEjq7RFEriA8n4o2qsOcTlgTrYlMcJmA%3D%3D&frcectupt=truez
4. Can you briefly tell me what the two wires that I suspect are for ground do? Assuming you don't need the pictures, basically it's like this: 2 wires come out of the condensor area, 1 goes to the coil and 1 goes to the piece near the throttle assembly (metal piece that goes over head block). Then there's a wire that came out of the coil and went to a screw on the coil. I figured they were grounding, but I don't know what the two wires that aren't from the condenser to the coil are for, and how much I need to worry about it?
Thanks so much for everything!
Edit:
I looked up how the governor works and it seems like throttle can be controlled at the lever without linkage, however I'm still curious about how the kill switch works.... Interesting how the spring tension affects how much the vane moves and therefore how fast or slow the engine runs.
T
TylerFrankel
Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. This is very helpful information. What you're saying here is that I can simply use the electronic ignition coils and bypass the old points and condenser, which is probably what I want to do in order to prevent the need for removing the flywheel, especially since the wires seem worn badly. However I have a few questions.
1. With the wire that comes from the base of the flywheel out of the condenser and travels to the area near the throttle assy, I am assuming this has to do with the kill switch, or is that the wire I showed in the picture? In other words, if I replace this, will I need to cut the wire from the points and solder it to the prong on the new coil to act as a kill switch, or what? Basically how will the kill switch be affected by this, and if I ignore it can the kill switch just be overridden if it's disconnected.
2. My flywheel has two magnets since its a point and condenser system, but I thought the new flywheels for electronic ignition have one? If so, can i simply block off a magnet with tape or scrape it out to prevent double ignition? Or will the electronic ignition's transistors account for this?
3. Would this work as a coil? (Its third party but I want to test the system before spending 40-50 dollars)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electronic-Ignition-Coil-For-Briggs-Stratton-695711-802574-796964-126700-121700/152638330265?hash=item2389f41599:rk:5
f:1&checksum=15263833026590f1abf6651842848ac7e6197139e5a5&enc=AQADAAADABkojIFHYtWT%2BANpG6F7t2H2ziylClm81yGy1RFb5mReYyRWQNe9Ks4r4z%2Bj15CMaa8Mz5LulrGpO%2FXcv%2BUq1kqi2pFWCgNIfFiv0f1CIbCWzYE153vRJRrAKLNWAkL0hKl9BGmw2T9rPH4ZBiaLXq97ovgIAStFx%2FhrfeH%2BbaGtnMAUb9RmArFCqNbwaTgx6aOhiHel0drxv%2Bqvg0LL1lGeVlHEr5FzZVEHc%2BK2Zz1Z749t379WW4iAEwccwqZOE5HafQF2GA5NgbwTX0D0MBMk6usEg0sbjofNkZjj8DAHmkKtQaWXZKiIQuUhmOnXNvCmUBLqT6KqDXTz0zhjGCqT0gF8eJsHYc%2BxH6lOyGONmFTjompSm9X%2FVKI4%2FGxpsDVtXB7J3gSAUuq1MlU8W%2FopctiATKlw2WCxuwCuWQCZ05ZL9XmcyybAektKQuNr6cvFrALR6crqu5HjjXeMUWDKpQegecoSzf2268Ui0wEjpQvGKgOJTf%2FpDJIcKtbXgz6TyGbLQf4061kaJrNb7aRIhjQqrOBMvzuJZ2fpYfqlLPstybKNcoamGNFqOubVF8IER7jEuPOkznqTFso%2Fm94lkoHu8l3xKqVOjG%2F6RLJ2uyZKsCFjc2iiWKcCczO014SeiHA8NRYeMgV0g0Jd4XC5x11sHVRAWGlk3GL4PA%2Fafv1Nd9tkKmR%2Fn3UsbixgM8Ps2Pt6H21RyjuoH6JP%2BMKg53tNQ53KtjiEiONqfrAF%2BkfYsRo9WAIaLRLaASwGzN8rxGioZ87Oja28Vafq4L1YfRbygHA%2Bw44Zfc%2F2A4TFQi1aQx3mwpMofTezXIqA9nsMtZ%2BMCmBk%2BAuHh47903Rt7yMwgZ0O%2FVhCM24gjftjqUEZO%2B7iqZo4ASkprm%2FdnRtZXuNXDioJwZHr9gRhkFOG7bQpxSuWUMURL8pO5B1vTNsYRzXcjNuSxINqn8wK0WbZZlFhrwzdSDrZtSPEl2ohSUqxHXHgjEDEjq7RFEriA8n4o2qsOcTlgTrYlMcJmA%3D%3D&frcectupt=truez4. Can you briefly tell me what the two wires that I suspect are for ground do? Assuming you don't need the pictures, basically it's like this: 2 wires come out of the condensor area, 1 goes to the coil and 1 goes to the piece near the throttle assembly (metal piece that goes over head block). Then there's a wire that came out of the coil and went to a screw on the coil. I figured they were grounding, but I don't know what the two wires that aren't from the condenser to the coil are for, and how much I need to worry about it?
Thanks so much for everything!
Edit:
I looked up how the governor works and it seems like throttle can be controlled at the lever without linkage, however I'm still curious about how the kill switch works.... Interesting how the spring tension affects how much the vane moves and therefore how fast or slow the engine runs.
#5
A
(Account Closed)
The old wires from under the flywheel are not needed at all. Cut em, yank em, don't matter, your not using them.
The new coil (as you can see in the link you posted) has a male electrical tab on it. That's to KILL the engine when grounded. So simply wire that tab to your kill switch, etc...
If one of your other engines has what appears no points (B&S), HP range posted above, I'd put that coil on there before investing more into the engine.
A
(Account Closed)
Thanks to both of you for the quick replies. This is very helpful information. What you're saying here is that I can simply use the electronic ignition coils and bypass the old points and condenser, which is probably what I want to do in order to prevent the need for removing the flywheel, especially since the wires seem worn badly. However I have a few questions.
1. With the wire that comes from the base of the flywheel out of the condenser and travels to the area near the throttle assy, I am assuming this has to do with the kill switch, or is that the wire I showed in the picture? In other words, if I replace this, will I need to cut the wire from the points and solder it to the prong on the new coil to act as a kill switch, or what? Basically how will the kill switch be affected by this, and if I ignore it can the kill switch just be overridden if it's disconnected.
2. My flywheel has two magnets since its a point and condenser system, but I thought the new flywheels for electronic ignition have one? If so, can i simply block off a magnet with tape or scrape it out to prevent double ignition? Or will the electronic ignition's transistors account for this?
3. Would this work as a coil? (Its third party but I want to test the system before spending 40-50 dollars)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Electronic-Ignition-Coil-For-Briggs-Stratton-695711-802574-796964-126700-121700/152638330265?hash=item2389f41599:rk:5
4. Can you briefly tell me what the two wires that I suspect are for ground do? Assuming you don't need the pictures, basically it's like this: 2 wires come out of the condensor area, 1 goes to the coil and 1 goes to the piece near the throttle assembly (metal piece that goes over head block). Then there's a wire that came out of the coil and went to a screw on the coil. I figured they were grounding, but I don't know what the two wires that aren't from the condenser to the coil are for, and how much I need to worry about it?
Thanks so much for everything!
The old wires from under the flywheel are not needed at all. Cut em, yank em, don't matter, your not using them.
The new coil (as you can see in the link you posted) has a male electrical tab on it. That's to KILL the engine when grounded. So simply wire that tab to your kill switch, etc...
If one of your other engines has what appears no points (B&S), HP range posted above, I'd put that coil on there before investing more into the engine.
#8
A
(Account Closed)
Re the kill switch, I removed the entire brake / lever / kill switch assembly off my 7 HP Briggs and wired THAT wire direct to an on/off switch (bolted to a bracket I made in the same place as the original brake.
No levers to hold, no re-starting, run's till you toggle the switch to off and ground out that wire. (If you have kids using it, might not be a good idea).
A
(Account Closed)
Re the kill switch, I removed the entire brake / lever / kill switch assembly off my 7 HP Briggs and wired THAT wire direct to an on/off switch (bolted to a bracket I made in the same place as the original brake.
No levers to hold, no re-starting, run's till you toggle the switch to off and ground out that wire. (If you have kids using it, might not be a good idea).
#9
T
TylerFrankel
Thank you. I will try to use a different coil and leave it unswitched for now. I will buy one later to ensure I can turn it off without unplugging spark plug or something. I also will try to leave the magnets alone. It looked like a real magnet but I will make sure later today when I have opportunity, and proceed to try anyway. Good idea with the switch mounted to the engine btw.
T
TylerFrankel
Re the kill switch, I removed the entire brake / lever / kill switch assembly off my 7 HP Briggs and wired THAT wire direct to an on/off switch (bolted to a bracket I made in the same place as the original brake.
No levers to hold, no re-starting, run's till you toggle the switch to off and ground out that wire. (If you have kids using it, might not be a good idea).
Thank you. I will try to use a different coil and leave it unswitched for now. I will buy one later to ensure I can turn it off without unplugging spark plug or something. I also will try to leave the magnets alone. It looked like a real magnet but I will make sure later today when I have opportunity, and proceed to try anyway. Good idea with the switch mounted to the engine btw.
#10
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#12
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#14
A
(Account Closed)
A
(Account Closed)
I gather you adjusted the air gap for the coil about .010" (or with a business card) between the MAGNETS (on the flywheel) and the coil?
If not, that (if adjusted way too tight), would bind up...
Re the extra kill switch wires on the Magnetron. Some mowers had an additional kill switch wire often ran to the chute itself. If the chute was removed and not replaced with say a plastic mulcher "part/plug", being it NOW has an OPEN deck, that wire would kill the ignition-for safety reasons.
Some Briggs, depending on the style had the kill switch wire ONLY attached to the brake mechanism, older machines (with no brake) would be attached to the throttle assembly at the engine. As a side note, that little plastic "square" that the kill switch wire would go to, MANY engines have the square opening for it even thou it's NOT used. Briggs just left that square opening in later years. Depending on your engines throttle, you may be able to attach the kill wire to that "square" if installed and the actual throttle turns far enough to touch (kill it)..
Super old engines didn't have a wire at all. They had a tab attached to a head bolt that you pushed down and simply shorted the spark plug to ground killing the engine.
I just got this customers engine running (11 HP Briggs). If you look closely where the spark plug is, you'll see the tab (still painted red along with the spark plug cover-which has a small hole in it to allow grounding):
Just finished adjusting the RPM'S (3,600 as it's a generator). The black wire hanging loose is my tach.
If not, that (if adjusted way too tight), would bind up...
Re the extra kill switch wires on the Magnetron. Some mowers had an additional kill switch wire often ran to the chute itself. If the chute was removed and not replaced with say a plastic mulcher "part/plug", being it NOW has an OPEN deck, that wire would kill the ignition-for safety reasons.
Some Briggs, depending on the style had the kill switch wire ONLY attached to the brake mechanism, older machines (with no brake) would be attached to the throttle assembly at the engine. As a side note, that little plastic "square" that the kill switch wire would go to, MANY engines have the square opening for it even thou it's NOT used. Briggs just left that square opening in later years. Depending on your engines throttle, you may be able to attach the kill wire to that "square" if installed and the actual throttle turns far enough to touch (kill it)..
Super old engines didn't have a wire at all. They had a tab attached to a head bolt that you pushed down and simply shorted the spark plug to ground killing the engine.
I just got this customers engine running (11 HP Briggs). If you look closely where the spark plug is, you'll see the tab (still painted red along with the spark plug cover-which has a small hole in it to allow grounding):
Just finished adjusting the RPM'S (3,600 as it's a generator). The black wire hanging loose is my tach.
#15
T
TylerFrankel
Awesome. So that kinda helps me understand my functioning mower, I guess there are 2 kill switches; 1 from the handle that goes to a brake and 1 that engages when the throttle is closed all the way (it can be stopped both ways). This one I'm working on looked like it had the kill wire bare near the throttle, so I imagine this is how it would be grounded/killed... I'll take note of that when I want to set it up. For now I'll ground it manually. Interesting. Thanks.
The coil is spaced properly, I realized I put the screws meant to be in the sump in the cover, which are too long and probably preventing the flywheel when turning. Will update when I get home.
Thanks
T
TylerFrankel
I gather you adjusted the air gap for the coil about .010" (or with a business card) between the MAGNETS (on the flywheel) and the coil?
If not, that (if adjusted way too tight), would bind up...
Re the extra kill switch wires on the Magnetron. Some mowers had an additional kill switch wire often ran to the chute itself. If the chute was removed and not replaced with say a plastic mulcher "part/plug", being it NOW has an OPEN deck, that wire would kill the ignition-for safety reasons.
Some Briggs, depending on the style had the kill switch wire ONLY attached to the brake mechanism, older machines (with no brake) would be attached to the throttle assembly at the engine. As a side note, that little plastic "square" that the kill switch wire would go to, MANY engines have the square opening for it even thou it's NOT used. Briggs just left that square opening in later years. Depending on your engines throttle, you may be able to attach the kill wire to that "square" if installed and the actual throttle turns far enough to touch (kill it)..
Super old engines didn't have a wire at all. They had a tab attached to a head bolt that you pushed down and simply shorted the spark plug to ground killing the engine.
I just got this customers engine running (11 HP Briggs). If you look closely where the spark plug is, you'll see the tab (still painted red along with the spark plug cover-which has a small hole in it to allow grounding):
Just finished adjusting the RPM'S (3,600 as it's a generator). The black wire hanging loose is my tach.
Awesome. So that kinda helps me understand my functioning mower, I guess there are 2 kill switches; 1 from the handle that goes to a brake and 1 that engages when the throttle is closed all the way (it can be stopped both ways). This one I'm working on looked like it had the kill wire bare near the throttle, so I imagine this is how it would be grounded/killed... I'll take note of that when I want to set it up. For now I'll ground it manually. Interesting. Thanks.
The coil is spaced properly, I realized I put the screws meant to be in the sump in the cover, which are too long and probably preventing the flywheel when turning. Will update when I get home.
Thanks
#17
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
Boudreaux In Eunice La.
#20
tom3
tom3
#23
tom3
tom3