Export thread

I have a Scag turf tiger with a 35 HP B&S air cooled engine....Eng. No. 6134772186G1. I replaced the battery; but, after running the engine, the battery is not being recharged. The current regulator is Part number 808297....it has been replaced with 848221; but, the new part doesn't look like the old part...and has different connectors that won't work with this engine. Does anybody know which replacement part is correct for this engine?

Also, the 808297 doesn't appear to be broken....the ohms testing shows about 490 on both sides...(what I mean is that 808297 has a three prong connector...the middle prong appears to be negative...with negative lead to middle and positive lead to either side, I have a reading of 490 on both). But, its not charging the battery. Briggs says that 808297 has been replaced with 848221...not the same connectors.

Any suggestions to help this electrical charging system work?

That is not the way to test the rectifier.
The 2 wires that are the same colour are the AC feed wires and are connected to either side of the stator windings
The single wire in the middle is the DC + feed back to the battery
The body is ground.
You check OHMS between the AC & DC connections .
You should get continuity one way round and no continuity the other way round because the rectifier is just a bunch ( 4 to 6 ) of diodes.
So you start by checking the AC out put from the stator plug.
You should see between 24 & 40 V AC between the two wires & 1/2 that between either one and ground.
After that check the DC voltage from the middle terminal to ground.
If it is 12.5V or better then all id fine & the problem is in your wiring

The most common problem a bad ground contact between the body of the rectifier & the mower.
After that it is a bad connection on the + wire between the rectifier & the battery ( usually the switch )

Per AVB's request...here are photos: Sorry...the iPhone wouldn't focus on the close up that has the part number:



I tried to make sense of the parts manual numbers and what part supersedes other parts...very difficult.

Thanks very much for clarifying this...I'll retest after I reinstall. The three prong connector from the regulator connects to another three prong connector coming from the engine. The connector coming from the engine also has a red wire that attaches to a post on the starter motor. Does that need to be checked?

bertsmobile1 said:

That is not the way to test the rectifier.
The 2 wires that are the same colour are the AC feed wires and are connected to either side of the stator windings
The single wire in the middle is the DC + feed back to the battery
The body is ground.
You check OHMS between the AC & DC connections .
You should get continuity one way round and no continuity the other way round because the rectifier is just a bunch ( 4 to 6 ) of diodes.
So you start by checking the AC out put from the stator plug.
You should see between 24 & 40 V AC between the two wires & 1/2 that between either one and ground.
After that check the DC voltage from the middle terminal to ground.
If it is 12.5V or better then all id fine & the problem is in your wiring

The most common problem a bad ground contact between the body of the rectifier & the mower.
After that it is a bad connection on the + wire between the rectifier & the battery ( usually the switch )

Click to expand...

I've double checked and the part number on the regulator is 808294...promise. And, below it just a bit and to the left is this number: 2214

Nishka said:

Per AVB's request...here are photos: Sorry...the iPhone wouldn't focus on the close up that has the part number:



I tried to make sense of the parts manual numbers and what part supersedes other parts...very difficult.

Click to expand...

Nishka said:

I've double checked and the part number on the regulator is 808294...promise. And, below it just a bit and to the left is this number: 2214

Click to expand...

The 808297 comes back for a regulator for a smaller or different engine than yours. . Your regulator is part number 847385. The 848221 is for the 20/50 amp charging system which has two 2 wire connectors and a single wire connector for a total of 5 wires. Your regulator has a single 3 wire connector.

Thanks ILEngine:

I agree that the parts manual shows my part number as 847385: But, then when you call it up, the photo does not have the same connectors and will not work with my engine. The part that does match is Part No. 691573. This looks the same as the part off of my engine; but, I'm concerned that it doesn't match what the parts manual says.

Nishka said:

Thanks ILEngine:

I agree that the parts manual shows my part number as 847385: But, then when you call it up, the photo does not have the same connectors and will not work with my engine. The part that does match is Part No. 691573. This looks the same as the part off of my engine; but, I'm concerned that it doesn't match what the parts manual says.

Click to expand...

There is a glitch some place. Your 808297 does supercede to the 691573 regulator. Looks like Briggs list two stators and two regulators that neither one was used on your specific engine.

Considering you are in Hawaii and judging from the look of the rectifier , a bad ground would be very high on the hit list.
Polish the spot where the regulator clamps onto the engine on both the rectifier & engine also polish where the bolt head sits on the rectifier to ensure you have a good ground.

Briggs change their parts numbers more often than I change my undies ( explains why I work alone )
Your engine has 2 different alternators that could have been fitted which is why there are two different rectifiers.
This gets confusing to those not used to it and if you buy parts from places like Amazon or Ebay they both would be listed as fitting 613477-2186-G1 because both were originally fitted depending upon the end use.
However , Briggs colour code the plug & wires so you always look for one that has the same plug.
Then again there is no guarantee that what is on your engine is what is supposed top be there.
Add to that all of the resellers of cheap Chinese parts on line bought from wholesales who have absolutely no idea what they are or what they fit.

Bert, I looks like for some reason that this guy has the unlisted third option. He has the three wire white flat connector with barrel wires. The two regulators that they list for his engine are either a two wire flat spade black connector with a single red wire, or two 2 wire flat connector with barrel end wire connectors, plus a single red wire connector.

other than a small handful of big block Vanguard engines it looks like his regulator was used on 18 hp and smaller engines.

Thank you very much for this information.

In summary it appears that the conclusion is that Part No. 691573 may replace the part I actually have on the engine; but, 691573 may be the part for a smaller sized engine. I'm thinking this may be why the regulator won't keep the battery charged. So, I want to fix the problem...what can I do to put a regulator/rectifier on the engine that will properly charge my battery?

Is there any way to rewire the connector so it will work with the correct 847385 regulator?

Thanks again for any help you can provide.

P.S. Why is B&S so clueless when it comes to helping the consumer with problems such as this....it is there product and I couldn't get anybody to help me.

If everything is working correctly your current regulator setup will be more than enough output to run the electric items and recharge the battery. Looks like it should be the 20 amp regulated system so no reason to try to reinvent the wheel. Just find out while it isn't charging, Either faulty regulator, bad stator, or not getting battery voltage to the regulator so it will recharge the battery.

ILENGINE said:

Bert, I looks like for some reason that this guy has the unlisted third option. He has the three wire white flat connector with barrel wires. The two regulators that they list for his engine are either a two wire flat spade black connector with a single red wire, or two 2 wire flat connector with barrel end wire connectors, plus a single red wire connector.

other than a small handful of big block Vanguard engines it looks like his regulator was used on 18 hp and smaller engines.

Click to expand...

I have no access to the B & S portal so can not check to see what charging system he should have on his mower or what engine did have the system that he has fitted.
As I don't have access to that sort of information I look up the rectifiers by plug code & colour.
Thus it looks to me like he has the 20 Amp 696579 stator with the 691573 regulator which is listed for the 61 series engines on the B & S alternator chart.

One of the few things that I went to the effort of printing our A2 size, laminating and sticking on the wall.

Nishka said:

Thank you very much for this information.

In summary it appears that the conclusion is that Part No. 691573 may replace the part I actually have on the engine; but, 691573 may be the part for a smaller sized engine. I'm thinking this may be why the regulator won't keep the battery charged. So, I want to fix the problem...what can I do to put a regulator/rectifier on the engine that will properly charge my battery?

Is there any way to rewire the connector so it will work with the correct 847385 regulator?

Thanks again for any help you can provide.

P.S. Why is B&S so clueless when it comes to helping the consumer with problems such as this....it is there product and I couldn't get anybody to help me.

Click to expand...

The power output is a function of the size of the magnets in the flywheel and the windings in the stator and most important the speed of the engine.
If you are not runnig full speed then the alternator can not generate the full rated power.
I had a customer who would only run his mower at 2/3 speed to "reduce the wear on the engine" I found this out after I had replaced his battery 3 times in a single season.
I could find nothing wrong with the mower & did the last replacement on site then watched him mow for a few minutes.
The listed regulator output is what the regulator can handle.
Changing the regulator will not change the output
What does happen is the magnets can come loose in the flywheel and that also makes a drastic reduction in the output of the alternator.

Now the burning question is
Have you owned the mower since new ?
What engine work has been done to it.

Thanks to all of you...I need to put the regulator back on, make sure the connnection points are clean, and then do the testing as previously suggested...then I will report back.

As to the burning questions. No, I bought this used. Hours are not a lot...will check...I don't know what was done previously. But, I had another problem before this one and took the starter off to test it. So, I did (6 months ago) remove the regulator so I could remove the starter. I am confident I put it back together correctly.

Another unrelated question. The instrument panel only has an AMP meter. I have not idea what the AMP meter should or should not read. What should it read? I'd like to put a voltage meter on it and I'd like to put a temperature gauge (remember, air cooled) on the machine...Any recommendations?

bertsmobile1 said:

The power output is a function of the size of the magnets in the flywheel and the windings in the stator and most important the speed of the engine.
If you are not runnig full speed then the alternator can not generate the full rated power.
I had a customer who would only run his mower at 2/3 speed to "reduce the wear on the engine" I found this out after I had replaced his battery 3 times in a single season.
I could find nothing wrong with the mower & did the last replacement on site then watched him mow for a few minutes.
The listed regulator output is what the regulator can handle.
Changing the regulator will not change the output
What does happen is the magnets can come loose in the flywheel and that also makes a drastic reduction in the output of the alternator.

Now the burning question is
Have you owned the mower since new ?
What engine work has been done to it.

Click to expand...

Since you purchased this mower used. I am wondering if you got the model number information off of the sticker tag on the blower housing, and if that number matches the tag on the engine block next to the oil filter..

I was able to check a few things over the weekend. Hours on engine are 1600. I polished the parts of the regulator that touch the connection points on the engine. The OHMS test between the AC & DC connections confirmed continuity one way and no continuity the other way. Then I tried to test the AC out put from the stator plug...I was getting no reading at all. So...I checked the 20 amp fuse and the fuse was blown (what would blow the fuse?). Put in a new fuse and jumped started the mower and ran it for about three hours.

However, I still need to check the AC out put from the stator plug. I assume the test is performed with engine on, full throttle, and the plug disconnected? Then, I put the voltage meter on AC and touch the red lead to the AC out put from the stator plug and the black lead to a body part?

Okay...missing the blown fuse is a worse than rookie mistake. But, one other question always bothers me. When somebody says to touch the black lead to a body part or engine part to find ground, I really don't know what that means? I assume you can't touch a part of the mower that is painted...has to be bare metal right? Also, can it be any part of the engine....I always worry that touching any part of the engine might cause a problem....Can the black lead just touch the negative battery terminal?

Thanks again for the help and advice.

To check AC output of the stator the red lead goes into one side of the stator output, and the black lead goes into the other stator output. You check it like you were checking the voltage of a household outlet. You can touch any bare metal area of the engine or mower frame to use as ground.

Briggs put out a nice guide called "Engine Alternator Replacement Guide" or "Alternator Specifications" or "Engine Alternator Repower Guide" and "Digital Multimeter Instruction Manual" and probably 10,000 similar names.
They are all over the web and the same information is in the Intec Workshop manual which is also all over the web.

What would cause a fuse to blow would be an over load of the system. I would start by looking at the clutch. Don't really like the new upgrade to the forum the old was better and easier to get around In and look for post and things.