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Brand New B&S Intek 8230

#1

K

keychange

I have a near new ( 12 hours) Chinese mower with an intermittent but regular fault - it stops and won't start again - which results in a flat battery then when recharged starts first kick.

I have checked relays as best I can but I am suspicious of the oil cut-out switch as we live on a fairly steep block and the failures always coincide with the mower being on a slope. I am not saying it cuts out on the slope as that could easy be my wife's light weight triggering the seat cut out. But I think the failure to restart is related to the slope and the oil cut out. I tested my theory by adding 50 ml of oil and each time it started ok - but now the engine is over filled which I need to drain.

I have just wasted nearly an hour of my life on the totally useless B&S web site where I have tried ten times to enter the details to get a manual. Model 445577 Type 0139 Trim B1. It is an Intek 8230 724cc - given I know all that the web site refuses to identify the motor and offer me a manual.:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

So I am really after a wiring diagram if possible as I say I believe the oil cut out switch is faulty and would like to disable it for testing purposes. I live 3 hours round trip from my nearest BS dealer and anyway I do not own a trailer big enough that can carry the mower so some testing in situ is called for. I have the parts manual and it describes "Wire Assembly Includes Green Oil Pressure Switch Wire" - but there is no green wire coming out of the engine and only 3 wires not 6 and they are red, grey and striped black. There are also a couple of wires coming out of CDI but they do not appear to be part of the general harness.

Please help


#2

R

Rivets

This manual might help you.

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12502267/B&S Service Manuals/05_273521TwinCylinderOHV.pdf


#3

Fish

Fish

It sounds like you have an electric pto clutch, and you charging system is not working, and it I running your battery down after
a time, and it shuts down because the fuel solenoid shuts it off, and will not start again until the battery is recharged.

If you don't have an electric pto, then something is putting a big drain on your system, but the first thing to check would be
ac voltage coming from the alt., and also checking the voltage from the regulator {dc}.

Here is a ipl that may be helpful for reference

OEM Parts


#4

K

keychange

Rivets said:
This manual might help you.

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12502267/B&S Service Manuals/05_273521TwinCylinderOHV.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for this it will come in handy but alas says very little about oil cut-off and shows no wiring for it.


#5

K

keychange

Fish said:
It sounds like you have an electric pto clutch, and you charging system is not working, and it I running your battery down after
a time, and it shuts down because the fuel solenoid shuts it off, and will not start again until the battery is recharged.

If you don't have an electric pto, then something is putting a big drain on your system, but the first thing to check would be
ac voltage coming from the alt., and also checking the voltage from the regulator {dc}.
Click to expand...

Fish - it does have electric pto but the mower is brand new but had been in storage for over 2 years ( I got what I thought was a good deal ) so the battery was dead on arrival. It does hold a charge and starts fine but doesn't have a lot of grunt to call upon and flattens quickly when turning the motor over - I will replace it when I get down the mountain. The issue is not just the battery as there is no spark when the problem occurs and even a jump start from the car makes no difference.

My parts manual shows the oil cut-out switch but doesn't show where it is located, how to access or wiring that corresponds with the engine I have. I will try the B&S web site once again :(


#6

Fish

Fish

It shows a switch on the oil sump blowup, but doesn't have a part number corresponding with it, which means that your engine doesn't have one.

OEM Parts


#7

Fish

Fish

If yours does/did, it would likely be here.................

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#8

K

keychange

Fish said:
It shows a switch on the oil sump blowup, but doesn't have a part number corresponding with it, which means that your engine doesn't have one.
Click to expand...

Fish you are absolutely correct and that blows that theory out of the water - thanks for that. Now I am back where I started and guess I replace the relays one by one :(


#9

T

tybilly

youre saying since your wife is light enough to trigger the seat switch,does this occur when you mow also?..if you let this mower run on a flat surface does this problem still happen?dont go replacing relays just yet,lets investigate a little further


#10

Carscw

Carscw

Am I reading this right?
The mower will start and run fine for a few mins then shut off. You checked for spark and there was none.

Here is a simple test. Unhook the kill wire to the coil/coils start the engine. If it shuts off after 10 or so mins then it's a bad coil. If it never shuts off then you know to start testing switches/relays.


#11

Fish

Fish

He said it shuts off when the battery runs down totally, which is why I think that he should address that problem first, as the
pto switch is draining his battery, and the fuel shutoff solenoid is likely shutting it down. I agree, pulling the kill wire to the coils would help narrow things down a bit, but I doubt that his coils [both] are the problem, as having both of them die
at the same moment each time is very, very unlikely.

Testing the charging circuit is extremely simple. I think he will find his trouble there. free and easy, that is always my next choice, instead of wasting money.


#12

Carscw

Carscw

Fish said:
He said it shuts off when the battery runs down totally, which is why I think that he should address that problem first, as the pto switch is draining his battery, and the fuel shutoff solenoid is likely shutting it down. I agree, pulling the kill wire to the coils would help narrow things down a bit, but I doubt that his coils [both] are the problem, as having both of them die at the same moment each time is very, very unlikely. Testing the charging circuit is extremely simple. I think he will find his trouble there. free and easy, that is always my next choice, instead of wasting money.
Click to expand...

Ok now I get what's going on.


#13

K

keychange

NO SORRY correction I did not say it shuts of when the battery runs down. I said " an intermittent but regular fault - it stops and won't start again - which results in a flat battery then when recharged starts first kick. "

My wife is very small and so when she reaches forward for the deck height pedal the engine may splutter because her weight is insufficient for the seat relay ( all our ride ons have done this ) and occasionally the engine will die. However most times it will immediately restart. Likewise since there is strict procedure for moving the PTO, steering arms and engaging the brake any failure in this procedure will result in the engine cutting out. But often it restarts instantly.

In other words on occasions the engine cuts ( which may be legitimate), however once it has cut out then it will not restart. This may be 5 minutes or 20 minutes in the mow - it often happens after an hour and as my wife approaches the shed to park the mower. It is not the battery's fault that it stops - it is just not a strong battery so flattens quickly when going through the process of trying to restart ie: maybe 30 seconds of turning the engine over will kill the battery. Even using a jumper lead from the car the mower will not kick and I have tested and at these times there is no spark. There is fuel and the fuel pump is working but no spark.

When this happens I need to recharge and over this period the mower cools or resets or whatever ( I don't know ) but after a rest it will restart first kick.

Since the failure to restart is always associated with being on a slope I assumed it was an oil cut out switch not sensing sufficient oil when the engine is not level, however that theory is dead as Fish points out there is no oil cut out.

So we have to assume that the the slope maybe is a coincidence. So I now assume that a relay is faulty but I can't understand how it corrects itself after a time. The switches are closed for go and open for stop.


#14

K

keychange

tybilly said:
youre saying since your wife is light enough to trigger the seat switch,does this occur when you mow also?..if you let this mower run on a flat surface does this problem still happen?dont go replacing relays just yet,lets investigate a little further
Click to expand...

tybilly your question raises an interesting point. It has happened once when I have used the mower ( my wife does almost all mowing :rolleyes: ) but that was approaching the shed which is steepish slope and I may have got off the mower to move something and invoked the cut off - which with a new mower it is easy to get the procedure wrong.

However thinking further it may be that this is an intermittent short or something and could be happening all the time but unnoticed by the operator as our garden is not bowling green smooth and quite steep in places. This problem never manifests as a cut out when the mower is in motion ie: never happens half way along a stretch of grass. The problem ( I think ) always manifests when the mower is stationary or near stationary. In which case the short does not get bumped loose by the movement over the ground but the short is corrected by giving it time to cool off.....


#15

K

keychange

So no now I am brain storming - amazing how trying to explain the symptoms in writing force you to think more clearly.

So here is my new theory I think I have a fault in the PTO switch. You cannot place the steering bars to the side with the PTO engaged - it will immediately cut out AND you cannot start the mower unless the steering bars are placed on the side .... so if the switch on the PTO is sticking in the On position even though the PTO button on the control deck is depressed and the PTO has actually disengaged if this is the case the unit can't start - as per above until the switch cools and becomes Off.


#16

D

Deerlane

I have a read all post. Is your PTO on when the tractor shuts off? I thinking you have two issues.


#17

K

keychange

Deerlane said:
Is your PTO on when the tractor shuts off? [/QUOTE

Not always sometimes the PTO would be on when it cuts out but often it is off ie: the PTO button on the control deck is down and the PTO is off -but if I am right the switch on the PTO unit may still be reading as On.
Click to expand...


#18

D

Deerlane

First I would meter check battery voltage with a full charge battery, 12 volts. Next check at battery with engine running with a meter. Should have 13.5 volts. Next with engine off, Remove the negative ground from battery and then just touch the wire to the post. Is there a large voltage spark?. If you had battery voltage going to PTO switch down to PTO clutch even with it off, you should be turning the blades when starting.
.
Second, it sounds like a loose or bare ground wire that is going to ground. This would explain the shutting off.

This is a Zero Steer unit? If PTO is on and you both handles pulled back, does it kill the PTO?


#19

K

keychange

I am very confident that there is NO issue with the charging system, input voltage is fine - the problem with the battery is simply that it does not hold full charge - I need to replace it. But I repeat the issue persists ie: no spark even when turning over with jumper leads to the car battery with car engine running.

I have just obtained a copy of the circuit diagram - see attached. There is no relay on the PTO clutch so another theory bites the dust.

Looking at the diagram the issue appears to revolve around KA2 and/or the pink/black wire although the PTO clutch is also in the picture.

However keep in mind the basic point - the problem does NOT cause the engine to cut out - the problem stops the engine from re-starting until a period of time has passed and then all is well.

The mower is a zero steer pulling back does not kill the engine it reverses the mower.

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#20

K

keychange

I finally tracked down the manufacturer this is the unit Lanrui

I have asked them for help ... not very confident though :(

52-Zero-Turn-Riding-Mower-KR-CW-52C-.jpg


#21

D

Deerlane

Ok. I thought you meant, it stops and won't start again until it cools or move things around.


#22

Fish

Fish

If it likes to cut out/die on slopes, that would indicate a layer of water in the carb bowl, it lays in the bottom of the carb
until you hit an incline or hit a bump, and would take some extra cranking to start again to burn off that slurp of water.

When you are trying to check for spark when the battery is low, the engine may not be cranking fast enough to produce
a good spark.

So drop the bowl off of the carb and dump it, it is unfortunate that they don't have a drain plug like on a Honda.

You also might check your valve clearances, they may be on the tight side, making it want to shut down when hot,
and not want to restart until cooled off.

Both of these ideas are free, and not too difficult, and should be a thing you do anyway.


#23

K

keychange

Fish said:
If it likes to cut out/die on slopes/QUOTE]

Fish it does NOT like to cut out on slopes. All of my posts I have said that " engine cuts ( which may be legitimate)" in other words it may be my wife moving her cute little a... too much and triggering the cut out OR we may stop and turn the engine off. The problem is NOT the engine stopping - IT IS NOT the problem. The problem is that after it has stopped ( for whatever reason ) on many occasions it will not then restart.

The conundrum is what fault can let the engine run with no issues ( and I do mean no issues ) - but will not let it re-start .... it is only re-starts. Normal cold starts are perfect.
Click to expand...


#24

Fish

Fish

well, can you borrow a neighbor's fat wife, just to isolate that angle/????


#25

Fish

Fish

If not, can I borrow her?????


#26

K

keychange

Fish said:
If not, can I borrow her?????
Click to expand...

:laughing: :thumbsup: :licking:

So you want to borrow my neighbor's fat wife - I'll see what I can do:cool:


#27

K

keychange

Well Sunday week ago I spent 2 hours removing every switch and connector cleaned and replaced. I then tested for half an hour in the rain and no fault.

On Thursday my wife mowed the full garden - 2 acres stopping and starting without a hitch until she stopped the mower outside the shed and it would not restart. So I went out for a look and clearly saw that the 3 wire connector coming from the engine, the red wire had come completely out of the connector. When I checked the pin it was clearly not crimped properly - in fact it was barely crimped - BINGO here was the intermittent fault!

I reconnected it then on Saturday gave it a workout with a trailer hauling wood up to the house ready for our winter to start. This involved maybe a dozen stops and starts all perfect. Hooray!

Thanks everyone for help and now I have to remember to cancel my neighbour's fat wife visit :laughing:


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