Export thread

Hi guys,

I'm in the market to get a nice zero turn radius mower for a property I'll be at where I'll have to mow about an acre. I'd like to get a good high quality mower and wanted to get some input as I heard some folks here use these things to make a living and probabl;y have used different brands and models.

I've heard of people having problems with the Hydrostatic Transmissions. I hear there are only 2 companies that make these transmissions so hopefully one is the best.

I would definitely be interested in getting a mower that has external transmission oil filters that can be changed as well as a drain plug to be able to drain the transmission oil as I hear this is critical for getting long life out of these transmissions

So please let me know what brands I should be looking at for getting long service life. I have a gate to go thru, so I'll need the box to be no more than 54 inches wide.

I heard of Eaton Hydrostatic Transmissions

Aren't there two other brands?

1: Hydro-Gear
2: Tuff-Torq

May be more, IDK ?

I saw a thread earlier and a guy was saying his mower had an Eaton Hydrostatic Transmissions

I've heard some have had problem with Hydro-Gear not lasting very long.

Is Tuff-Torq considered to be better?

Hydrogear, tuff-torq, Eaton all make different levels of units. the consumer level stuff will not be readily serviceable. With the hydrogear units the ZT-2800 and larger will have external screw on oil filters which also act as the system drain when removed. I don't see much of the tuff-torq units so can't give much feedback on those. and my only experience with Eaton was not good on a Z turn. the best units will have a separate pump and wheel motors. Like hydrogear pumps with parker or hydrogear wheel motors.

Hydrogear, tuff-torq, Eaton all make different levels of units. the consumer level stuff will not be readily serviceable. With the hydrogear units the ZT-2800 and larger will have external screw on oil filters which also act as the system drain when removed. I don't see much of the tuff-torq units so can't give much feedback on those. and my only experience with Eaton was not good on a Z turn. the best units will have a separate pump and wheel motors. Like hydrogear pumps with parker or hydrogear wheel motors.

Great, thanks for the info.

I know somebody that had a mower with bad hydrogear units and he's looking for a company that rebuilds these.
Is there a place that does that?

I'm hoping to not have to go thru all that which is why I'd like to buy a mower with better quality transmissions.

What about Spartan Mowers? Is this a good brand?

They use Tuff Torq 450 transmission with steel gears according to their website

They say their mowers come with charge pumps which should help transmissions last longer and perform better

The HD mower uses "Parker Hydraulic drives"

What's the difference between a hydraulic drive transmission and a hydrostatic transmissions?

The hydraulic drive transmission must be better sing it's only offered on their more expensive mowers that label as being heavy duty

Jimmy the Lock said:

Great, thanks for the info.

I know somebody that had a mower with bad hydrogear units and he's looking for a company that rebuilds these.
Is there a place that does that?

I'm hoping to not have to go thru all that which is why I'd like to buy a mower with better quality transmissions.

Click to expand...

Company that rebuilds, NO. just not cost effective. May find individual dealers that may do internal repairs/rebuilds.

Jimmy the Lock said:

What about Spartan Mowers? Is this a good brand?

They use Tuff Torq 450 transmission with steel gears according to their website

They say their mowers come with charge pumps which should help transmissions last longer and perform better

RZ-Pro | Spartan Mowers | Zero Turn Mowers

Spartan Mowers, made in Batesville, AR offer an affordable top of the line mower with simplistic design & functionality, leading the zero-turn mower industry.

spartanmowers.com

Click to expand...

The Tuff-torq uses internal filters under a cap that has to be removed and internal charge pumps. The hydrogear ZT-2800 and above have external screw on automotive style filters and external charge pumps. Both use steel gears. It looks like the Tuff-torq uses plastic as part of the transmission housing to act as a oil tank. were the hydrogear will be a aluminum housing without the top of the transmission being partly bolted on plastic like the tuff-torq 450

Jimmy the Lock said:

The HD mower uses "Parker Hydraulic drives"

What's the difference between a hydraulic drive transmission and a hydrostatic transmissions?

The hydraulic drive transmission must be better sing it's only offered on their more expensive mowers that label as being heavy duty

Click to expand...

Hydrostatic drive is the pump and drive motor in one housing whereas the hydraulic drive is a separate pump connected to hydraulic wheel motors via hoses. True commercial mowers use the separate pump and motor system.

So I would go with either a hydraulic drive type system. or Something with a ZT-2800 or ZT-3100 which have screw on filters and fairly easy to service. The typically are used on higher end consumer mowers to pro-sumer style mowers.

ILENGINE said:

Company that rebuilds, NO. just not cost effective. May find individual dealers that may do internal repairs/rebuilds.

The Tuff-torq uses internal filters under a cap that has to be removed and internal charge pumps. The hydrogear ZT-2800 and above have external screw on automotive style filters and external charge pumps. Both use steel gears. It looks like the Tuff-torq uses plastic as part of the transmission housing to act as a oil tank. were the hydrogear will be a aluminum housing without the top of the transmission being partly bolted on plastic like the tuff-torq 450

Hydrostatic drive is the pump and drive motor in one housing whereas the hydraulic drive is a separate pump connected to hydraulic wheel motors via hoses. True commercial mowers use the separate pump and motor system.

So I would go with either a hydraulic drive type system. or Something with a ZT-2800 or ZT-3100 which have screw on filters and fairly easy to service. The typically are used on higher end consumer mowers to pro-sumer style mowers.

Click to expand...

A lot of the commercial mowers are going to Parker Torques pack one peice unit with oil drains in the pan and a cartrage type filter. It is a very good unit. Dixie Chopper uses them in their commercial Eagle and Black Hawk series and uses Hydro Gear in the Z2 units. They use the two piece units in the Classis series mowers.

ILENGINE said:

Company that rebuilds, NO. just not cost effective. May find individual dealers that may do internal repairs/rebuilds.

Click to expand...

I told this guy I'd see if I could find a place thru the internet that rebuilds these things so let me know if you find anybody.

ILENGINE said:

Hydrostatic drive is the pump and drive motor in one housing whereas the hydraulic drive is a separate pump connected to hydraulic wheel motors via hoses. True commercial mowers use the separate pump and motor system.

So I would go with either a hydraulic drive type system. or Something with a ZT-2800 or ZT-3100 which have screw on filters and fairly easy to service. The typically are used on higher end consumer mowers to pro-sumer style mowers.

Click to expand...

OK, thanks! Sounds like a good overview of my options.

I may opt for the Spartan RZ-HD mower since it has the Parker HTE 10cc Transmissions which is the hydraulic drive transmission

It's around $9000 for the 54 inch model, but since it's supposed to be a higher end mower maybe it will last longer than the other options.

Like I said Dixie Chopper uses the Parker Torques Pack in their mowers and some of the other manufactures are as well. We have only had two units since 2017 that were defective and were covered under warranty.

I was looking on their website and the Dixie Chopper 2454KW uses Hydro-Gear ZT-3100 transaxles so maybe their higher end mowers use Parker.

I cannot find any pricing to compare their to Spartan. I find it odd that they would not put pricing out where other manufacturers do.

Jimmy the Lock said:

Great, thanks for the info.

I know somebody that had a mower with bad hydrogear units and he's looking for a company that rebuilds these.
Is there a place that does that?

I'm hoping to not have to go thru all that which is why I'd like to buy a mower with better quality transmissions.

Click to expand...

They are rebuildable as the tranny makers all sell drop in replacement pump / motor units.
They are not difficult to do if you methodical & anal about keeping everything clean
All of the hydros are the same technology people just call them different names.
Eatons exited the mower hydros a decade ago because like Honda they refused to make junk to satisify to low ticket price demand I currently havr a swisher without a fan they I have been trying to fix for over a year .
Mulligans seem to offer the best deals & best information if you ask them nicely and have all the model & serial numbers at hand
Most of the bottom end trannys can be replaced with much better units that have external filters & are servicable

If you are in Oz then there is a service centre
Some rural / remote mower / tractor repair shops will refurbish them but there is little cost difference between refurbishing & replacing

Bottom line is people will not foot the bill so no one want to work for free just because the customers are too tight .

bertsmobile1 said:

They are rebuildable as the tranny makers all sell drop in replacement pump / motor units.
They are not difficult to do if you methodical & anal about keeping everything clean
All of the hydros are the same technology people just call them different names.
Eatons exited the mower hydros a decade ago because like Honda they refused to make junk to satisify to low ticket price demand I currently havr a swisher without a fan they I have been trying to fix for over a year .
Mulligans seem to offer the best deals & best information if you ask them nicely and have all the model & serial numbers at hand
Most of the bottom end trannys can be replaced with much better units that have external filters & are servicable

If you are in Oz then there is a service centre
Some rural / remote mower / tractor repair shops will refurbish them but there is little cost difference between refurbishing & replacing

Bottom line is people will not foot the bill so no one want to work for free just because the customers are too tight .

Click to expand...

While I appreciate your interest in hydraulic pumps, drives, and transaxles, here are my thoughts.
You say you are mowing one acre per week. If you buy that Spartan mower for $9,000 that will most likely be the last mower you will need for many years to come.
Tuff Torq
Hydrogear
Parker
These are the three main hydros in mowers. It has been briefly explained in this thread the basics. Any more questions you can do research.

bertsmobile1 said:

If you are in Oz then there is a service centre

Click to expand...

I'm not sure I even know where the land of Oz is.

Tiger Small Engine said:

If you buy that Spartan mower for $9,000 that will most likely be the last mower you will need for many years to come.

Click to expand...

That would be the game plan!

I live in the south (LA) most commercial mowers here use X-Mark mowers, made by Toro. They are Great mowers, tough and reasonably price, just make sure you get the commercial grade and not the residential grade. They are much cheaper than Scags, Kubota and Toro brand (all which are excellent mowers), I own a Toro Z- Master 5000 60” cut that I love but the only reason I bought it over a X Mark is I bought it used with 65 hours and 2 years warranty left on it for half of what a new one would cost.

Jimmy the Lock said:

Hi guys,

I'm in the market to get a nice zero turn radius mower for a property I'll be at where I'll have to mow about an acre. I'd like to get a good high quality mower and wanted to get some input as I heard some folks here use these things to make a living and probabl;y have used different brands and models.

I've heard of people having problems with the Hydrostatic Transmissions. I hear there are only 2 companies that make these transmissions so hopefully one is the best.

I would definitely be interested in getting a mower that has external transmission oil filters that can be changed as well as a drain plug to be able to drain the transmission oil as I hear this is critical for getting long life out of these transmissions

So please let me know what brands I should be looking at for getting long service life. I have a gate to go thru, so I'll need the box to be no more than 54 inches wide.

Click to expand...

Jimmy the Lock said:

Hi guys,

I'm in the market to get a nice zero turn radius mower for a property I'll be at where I'll have to mow about an acre. I'd like to get a good high quality mower and wanted to get some input as I heard some folks here use these things to make a living and probabl;y have used different brands and models.

I've heard of people having problems with the Hydrostatic Transmissions. I hear there are only 2 companies that make these transmissions so hopefully one is the best.

I would definitely be interested in getting a mower that has external transmission oil filters that can be changed as well as a drain plug to be able to drain the transmission oil as I hear this is critical for getting long life out of these transmissions

So please let me know what brands I should be looking at for getting long service life. I have a gate to go thru, so I'll need the box to be no more than 54 inches wide.

Click to expand...

I presently have a Razor 44" ZT hydrostatic, bought it used and have used it for 4 years with no problems, just good maintenance. But when it does fail I will replace it with an electric ZT with rechargeable batteries. Even the cheaper models seem impressive without the upkeep, fuel, and maintenance required on gas models.

I have a Commercial Cub Cadet with the ZT-2800 trans units. Keep the filters and oil changed and they have not given me a spec of problems since 2014 doing hill yards. May not be as good as some of the the brands, but in that price point. i have no complaints. Knock on wood, not a single service problem yet.

I would not go a residential model for my property. Too rough and hilly. I have had to repair and scrap low end TT and HT units.

Look for one with Parker pumps.

Ferd Turgeson said:

Look for one with Parker pumps.

Click to expand...

Never saw one with Parker pumps . Everything that I have come across in the shop has been hydrogear pumps with parker or hydrogear wheel motors.

The key to keeping them going is total cleanliness when doing oil (and filter) changes. Another vote for separate pump & motors here.....

Jimmy the Lock said:

Hi guys,

I'm in the market to get a nice zero turn radius mower for a property I'll be at where I'll have to mow about an acre. I'd like to get a good high quality mower and wanted to get some input as I heard some folks here use these things to make a living and probabl;y have used different brands and models.

I've heard of people having problems with the Hydrostatic Transmissions. I hear there are only 2 companies that make these transmissions so hopefully one is the best.

I would definitely be interested in getting a mower that has external transmission oil filters that can be changed as well as a drain plug to be able to drain the transmission oil as I hear this is critical for getting long life out of these transmissions

So please let me know what brands I should be looking at for getting long service life. I have a gate to go thru, so I'll need the box to be no more than 54 inches wide.

Click to expand...

You pretty much limited to the two common brands that are going to be on everything you're going to find.
The key is size. The ezt 21/2200 go on the smaller mowers and 42-in ones.
Then they have a 2800 which they're usually calling a 2800/3100.
This is some fancy advertising because if you go back a while they had a 2800 and then they had a 3100 and the 3100 was considered entry level commercial and then they just started combining the two so they could do the same thing and convince people to buy those.
A lot of the 42s may have a 28 to 3100 as an upgrade but I've seen them on 48th and maybe even larger like right at 50 or 51-in mowers and I feel that's too small of a transmission for that size of a machine.
This is what it all boils down to me is the torque rating and the size of the transmission.
Anything up to 3100 is going to have the smaller diameter output shaft or axles.
When you step up to a 3400 they're like a quarter inch bigger and that's a huge difference and everything else is beefier too.

If I were buying a machine that I planned on keeping for decades or the rest of my life, I would spend the extra $700 or $800 it might require to get something with a 3400 transmission.
I would sleep better at night knowing I had a commercial grade transmission that's capable of lasting and much heavier and larger equipment.

You almost have to take a picture of the sticker on the transmission and then Google it to see what it really is sometimes.
A couple of manufacturers posted in their literature or sale stuff but I always confirm that.
I'm not sure you can get a 48-in cut with a 3400 transmission but it might be possible.
I don't really care about size because bigger is better as long as we keep it under 70 in I guess.
Most people are in the same boat and if they don't transport on a trailer all the time you might as well have a 60 versus having a 48 because it just makes your cutting easier.
As long as it fits in your barn, garage, shed what's an extra foot wide going to hurt?

ILENGINE said:

Never saw one with Parker pumps . Everything that I have come across in the shop has been hydrogear pumps with parker or hydrogear wheel motors.

Click to expand...

Parker and Ross.
That's the old school or the original zero turns because they had pumps and wheel motors with hydraulic lines connecting the two.
There are a few companies that still make those but not many. Even the commercial ones have gone to the unitized transmission on each side.

I don't really think overall it's as durable even though they do make larger heavier duty ones.
It is a simple design though as you don't have to replace hoses when they start leaking and you don't have to put new seal kits on the wheel motors when they start losing pressure and leaking etc but far too many people have to replace an entire unitized transmission and those things are pricing just to buy.
Unless you want to spend probably at least $9,000 or more, you're not going to end up with a zero turn with separate pump and wheel motors.
I just go for the 3400 size and sleep better at night.

Looks like the Parker pumps are being used on the Spartan and Hustler mowers. Like I said before most of the separate pump motor setups I see are hydrogear pumps with hydrogear motors or parker motors

Have had several pro-sumer mowers the last few years with 2800 and 3100 units come through the shop.

ILENGINE said:

Looks like the Parker pumps are being used on the Spartan and Hustler mowers. Like I said before most of the separate pump motor setups I see are hydrogear pumps with hydrogear motors or parker motors

Have had several pro-sumer mowers the last few years with 2800 and 3100 units come through the shop.

Click to expand...

Funny, l'd always thought my Grav Z34 had Parker motors but its all HG.......

ILENGINE said:

Looks like the Parker pumps are being used on the Spartan and Hustler mowers. Like I said before most of the separate pump motor setups I see are hydrogear pumps with hydrogear motors or parker motors

Click to expand...

I have a Hustler Super Z and it uses Hydrogear pumps and Parker wheel motors

ILENGINE said:

Looks like the Parker pumps are being used on the Spartan and Hustler mowers. Like I said before most of the separate pump motor setups I see are hydrogear pumps with hydrogear motors or parker motors

Have had several pro-sumer mowers the last few years with 2800 and 3100 units come through the shop.

Click to expand...

I don't think it matters much what the brands are or what mowers they're going on, I think skagg is still making some with separate pumps and wheel motors because the commercial guys like that because they have proven to be greater durability and longer life.

The problem is, do we really think a brand new machine you buy today even if it has the same brand name pumps and wheel motors as the old classic ones....is going to be as good or last as long as the stuff from 20 or 30 years ago??
If you get 15 years of trouble-free service out of one of these new systems I would consider it very lucky.
Sadly, there are very few things made today that are as strong, durable, repair free as similar things from the past.

Technology and improving features and the way some things function is one thing but unfortunately we have sacrificed a lot in the quality and longevity.

That's why I bought used

TobyU said:

I don't think it matters much what the brands are or what mowers they're going on, I think skagg is still making some with separate pumps and wheel motors because the commercial guys like that because they have proven to be greater durability and longer life.

The problem is, do we really think a brand new machine you buy today even if it has the same brand name pumps and wheel motors as the old classic ones....is going to be as good or last as long as the stuff from 20 or 30 years ago??
If you get 15 years of trouble-free service out of one of these new systems I would consider it very lucky.
Sadly, there are very few things made today that are as strong, durable, repair free as similar things from the past.

Technology and improving features and the way some things function is one thing but unfortunately we have sacrificed a lot in the quality and longevity.

Click to expand...

Agreed, my 2015 Gravely compact pro is a tank; the new ones have transaxles now instead of pumps/motors......seems a downgrade to me

vintagefred said:

I presently have a Razor 44" ZT hydrostatic, bought it used and have used it for 4 years with no problems, just good maintenance. But when it does fail I will replace it with an electric ZT with rechargeable batteries. Even the cheaper models seem impressive without the upkeep, fuel, and maintenance required on gas models.

Click to expand...

Electric cars have 80% more problems than traditional gas according to consumer reports. Avis is selling g off 21,000 of its EV’s due to high maintenance costs and higher accident rates.

Don’t be so sure that an electric mower will be lower maintenance.

I would also look at the rest of the mower too. There is a helluva lot more going on than transmission. Look at the front pivots and wheel bearings. Some don’t even have bearings or if they do they aren't sealed. I bought a used Kubota ZT 6 years ago because it had the 3100 series trans. Made sense, axles looked bigger and before. However the rest of the mower has fallen short. Tab welded to the frame for the deck mount broke ( warranty covered it). Was a bad weld. Wheel bearings and deck bearings seemed to be of poor quality. I have upgraded these items so should last fingers crossed. Also the plastic intake manifold on the Briggs engine warped and leaked. The good news I can get parts and fix it myself. It took weeks to weld that tab on…..could have done that myself too as their “certified welder” was no better than I.

Don’t fixate on one thing or you could be disappointed. Last but not least I would get a main stream brand as parts are more likely to be available in the future. My BIL runs a lawn mowing business in FL and finds the X-mark to be the most reliable.

mcspeed said:

I would also look at the rest of the mower too. There is a helluva lot more going on than transmission. Look at the front pivots and wheel bearings. Some don’t even have bearings or if they do they aren't sealed. I bought a used Kubota ZT 6 years ago because it had the 3100 series trans. Made sense, axles looked bigger and before. However the rest of the mower has fallen short. Tab welded to the frame for the deck mount broke ( warranty covered it). Was a bad weld. Wheel bearings and deck bearings seemed to be of poor quality. I have upgraded these items so should last fingers crossed. Also the plastic intake manifold on the Briggs engine warped and leaked. The good news I can get parts and fix it myself. It took weeks to weld that tab on…..could have done that myself too as their “certified welder” was no better than I.

Don’t fixate on one thing or you could be disappointed. Last but not least I would get a main stream brand as parts are more likely to be available in the future. My BIL runs a lawn mowing business in FL and finds the X-mark to be the most reliable.

Click to expand...

Sure, but those things aren't deal-breakers. This is why I always tell people the deal breakers are engine and transmissions.
These are what prompt someone with an 8:10 or 12-year-old mower to buy a new one because most people can't replace those themselves and the price to have them replaced and even buy them is very cost prohibitive.
A lot more people can rig up a broken weld on a frame or a front wheel etc or even welded up better than factory.

mcspeed said:

Electric cars have 80% more problems than traditional gas according to consumer reports. Avis is selling g off 21,000 of its EV’s due to high maintenance costs and higher accident rates.

Don’t be so sure that an electric mower will be lower maintenanc

Click to expand...

mcspeed said:

Electric cars have 80% more problems than traditional gas according to consumer reports. Avis is selling g off 21,000 of its EV’s due to high maintenance costs and higher accident rates.

Don’t be so sure that an electric mower will be lower maintenance.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't have a battery powered riding lawn mower or push mower if you gave it to me!
I would sell it and use one of my good older gasoline powered mowers or buy a new one if I had to but I'd likely buy a nice used one.

It is absurd what they've done to us with the prices.
Just two years ago you can walk in and buy a Cub cadet at home Depot for 1599 at the beginning of the season.
By the end of the season they didn't have any and there were three three battery powered ones sitting there the exact same 42-in cut just battery powered instead of a gasoline engine..
They were $4,000!

They're going to have to do a lot better than that and make the prices the same or a lot cheaper if they're going to have me by their battery powered items that every time I use them I have to sacrifice things that are important.

See, the pro battery crowd will always say things like they don't have to sacrifice hearing a loud engine running or smelling the fumes or polluting etc but those aren't a sacrifice because that is standard operating procedure and I'm used to all of that.
The sacrifice is the fact that it doesn't have as much power on most of these mowers especially the smaller walk behind ones and they don't have much time capacity either.
I don't ever have to stop cutting for the day or for the 4 hours or for the hour or anything like that when I'm using my zero turn.
I can cut for hours!
If I do need to cut longer than what the twin tanks will carry me and I think I'm getting low, I simply ride back over to my gas can and fill it back up and NO, I don't turn it off when I do this.
That's just one more wasteful wear and tear start on the starting motor and one more temperature spike for the engine when you turn it off.

Point is, I can mow indefinitely.
I could probably start my zero turn and ride it to California.

Maybe we should have a challenge and let somebody with a lot of time and a point to prove do this just to show it to be done..
It would be a slow process but there are enough gas stations in this country especially on the old state routes that you could probably make it from town to town with probably no more than a Jerry can or two.
Try this with a battery powered mower.....

Regardless, what they did though was come out with this huge price for this 42 inch battery powered mower and then the very next year which I predicted 100%...they roll the gasoline mowers back out and they were almost $1,000 more. In fact, some are a thousand more than the same models were just a couple of years ago.
It's manipulation at its finest.

TobyU said:

I wouldn't have a battery powered riding lawn mower or push mower if you gave it to me!
I would sell it and use one of my good older gasoline powered mowers or buy a new one if I had to but I'd likely buy a nice used one.

It is absurd what they've done to us with the prices.
Just two years ago you can walk in and buy a Cub cadet at home Depot for 1599 at the beginning of the season.
By the end of the season they didn't have any and there were three three battery powered ones sitting there the exact same 42-in cut just battery powered instead of a gasoline engine..
They were $4,000!

They're going to have to do a lot better than that and make the prices the same or a lot cheaper if they're going to have me by their battery powered items that every time I use them I have to sacrifice things that are important.

See, the pro battery crowd will always say things like they don't have to sacrifice hearing a loud engine running or smelling the fumes or polluting etc but those aren't a sacrifice because that is standard operating procedure and I'm used to all of that.
The sacrifice is the fact that it doesn't have as much power on most of these mowers especially the smaller walk behind ones and they don't have much time capacity either.
I don't ever have to stop cutting for the day or for the 4 hours or for the hour or anything like that when I'm using my zero turn.
I can cut for hours!
If I do need to cut longer than what the twin tanks will carry me and I think I'm getting low, I simply ride back over to my gas can and fill it back up and NO, I don't turn it off when I do this.
That's just one more wasteful wear and tear start on the starting motor and one more temperature spike for the engine when you turn it off.

Point is, I can mow indefinitely.
I could probably start my zero turn and ride it to California.

Maybe we should have a challenge and let somebody with a lot of time and a point to prove do this just to show it to be done..
It would be a slow process but there are enough gas stations in this country especially on the old state routes that you could probably make it from town to town with probably no more than a Jerry can or two.
Try this with a battery powered mower.....

Regardless, what they did though was come out with this huge price for this 42 inch battery powered mower and then the very next year which I predicted 100%...they roll the gasoline mowers back out and they were almost $1,000 more. In fact, some are a thousand more than the same models were just a couple of years ago.
It's manipulation at its finest.

Click to expand...

A friend bought one of those $4,000 lectric mowers. Battery failed after just over a year. New battery over $1,500. The net net of it all is the lectric generates more greenhouse gases if you factor in the mining of the minerals for the batteries and the failure rates.

I’m not against lectric, just let the people decide. Actually have a Milwaukee 18v mower that works well. Wouldn’t pay the retail price they ask but found it on fake book market place for half the retail price. Just use it for trimming, actually the wife does. She prefers the 15 yr old gas mower LOL.

mcspeed said:

A friend bought one of those $4,000 lectric mowers. Battery failed after just over a year. New battery over $1,500. The net net of it all is the lectric generates more greenhouse gases if you factor in the mining of the minerals for the batteries and the failure rates.

I’m not against lectric, just let the people decide. Actually have a Milwaukee 18v mower that works well. Wouldn’t pay the retail price they ask but found it on fake book market place for half the retail price. Just use it for trimming, actually the wife does. She prefers the 15 yr old gas mower LOL.

Click to expand...

Yes, different strokes for different folks and different power sources for different uses.
Too many people get hung up on and all are none situation I want to push their ideas on to everybody.
I was super excited back in the '80s when they rechargeable drills came out even though the first ones were quite lackluster until you got into Milwaukee and makita's..
They quickly became just as strong as your corded drills but the convenience of not needing the cord.
Sure, it's annoying when you're doing something over a long period of time and you have to have three batteries to cycle them through the charger so you can go indefinitely but the convenience outweighs the aggravation most of the time.
Try cutting a vehicle in half though with a rechargeable sawzall. It just doesn't cut it, pun intended.
I did this a couple of years ago and I thought I could pull it off with my three battery packs and my Diablo blade but I ended up going in the shed and getting the harbor freight plug in sawzall.
Also back in the 80s when the toy RC cars were popular, I hated the battery powered once even though I quickly got into rechargeable batteries and then the better ones on the race circuit had rechargeable packs.
They even had fast chargers that charge them so quickly it would often damage the cells or kill the battery pack because they were so hot you could barely touch them because it was all about keeping these cars on the little race track circuits in the parking lot of hobby stores etc.
I quickly decided that gas was the way to go because you had full power all the time!
I also had some size 30 and size 60 helicopters that had small engines in them that ran on that expensive stuff from the hobby store.
Now, everybody wants everything to be battery powered or electric and some things just don't work as well.
Back to cars, there are certain things that will be far more convenient with a battery powered car.
Not that they all do this now but they are all capable of it, you can have resistance heating and get the temperature for your defroster up to temperature in about 5 seconds!
People with Tesla's normally don't worry about this because they leave them plugged in at night so they put them into warm up mode and the car warms up everything depending on your settings I assume, without draining any of your battery because you unplug it and then leave.
I don't really need all of that and then again we've had remote starts on cars that were aftermarket add-ons for decades and then around 2005 to 8 most cars started coming from the factory with an option of remote start so there's that.
That waste fuel though and even if you don't care about that, it does waste range that you will have to go to the station sooner to get more gas whereas having the vehicle plugged in in your garage or plugged in at home while it's warming up doesn't decrease your range at all because you're still plugged in.
I do wonder about how many watts a Tesla pools in a warm up mode and I'm guessing it's probably around 800 to 1400 but I could be way off.

I've always found it quite annoying in the winter time that our vehicles take so long to warm up.
Even if the windows are clear of snow etc, even with heated seats, and now they have heated steering wheels, it's still cold when you get in and the fog etc on the windows can be annoying and there is no heat blowing out of the vents for a good three or four minutes.
This should easily be conquered with a battery powered car but my guess is they won't go nearly as far as I would giving it resistance heating comparable to the electric heating for backup in a heat pump system or just an electric air handler in your home where you literally have hot air coming out 5 to 8 seconds after the buttons pressed.
I understand that resistance heating pulls one of the highest amounts of battery power but doesn't matter when you're still plugged in and it's a price I'd be willing to pay for under a minute or so to get it comfortable.

The engineer in me loves the idea of electric powered anything as they are just so energy efficient
When a reliable battery is found that does not literally cost the earth to make then I would probably buy some.
However as a planet saver they are a hoax.
IF you really wanted to save the planet, then replace your entire roof with solar cells and install some wind walls in place of privacy screens & wind breaks .
The maths is dead simple
Mowers make up about 0.002 % of the USA's petrochemically derived green house gasses and think that figure was for everything , mowers, blowers, trimers, saws & home generators
Petrochemical green house gasses are around 25% of the USA's total green house gasses and that includes trucks , trains & boats, but not aircraft for some strange reason .
So mowers & the like will reduce the problem by 0.0005 % which would equate to around the number of beer farts
Household electricity accounts for around 33%
So where would yu start to attack the problem if you waned to get some useful results ?

bertsmobile1 said:

The engineer in me loves the idea of electric powered anything as they are just so energy efficient
When a reliable battery is found that does not literally cost the earth to make then I would probably buy some.
However as a planet saver they are a hoax.
IF you really wanted to save the planet, then replace your entire roof with solar cells and install some wind walls in place of privacy screens & wind breaks .
The maths is dead simple
Mowers make up about 0.002 % of the USA's petrochemically derived green house gasses and think that figure was for everything , mowers, blowers, trimers, saws & home generators
Petrochemical green house gasses are around 25% of the USA's total green house gasses and that includes trucks , trains & boats, but not aircraft for some strange reason .
So mowers & the like will reduce the problem by 0.0005 % which would equate to around the number of beer farts
Household electricity accounts for around 33%
So where would yu start to attack the problem if you waned to get some useful results ?

Click to expand...

The engineer in me is far outweighed by the mechanical inclination and that efficiency and many of the theoretical advantages are outweighed by real-world experience.
I will always relate my experience with RC cars in the late 70s and early '80s.
They had cheap toy ones and then they had slightly better toy ones that all ran on batteries and you could use Nikes at the time to replace them and then some of them later on had rechargeable battery packs.
Then you had the actual RC circuit race cars which you would consider a professional style which ran on fast charging packs which were much better.
Nothing was as exciting to me as gasoline powered RC cars.
I just don't like things that have a fairly short duration and I don't like things that start out being nice and powerful and doing something one way but then wane off and get weaker and/or a little bit fairly quickly and then slowly degrade ending up with a harsh and quick drop off.
I have always preferred the ones that are full power all the time and can be made for a longer time as long as you supply them with enough fuel.

What was the original question?

Freddie21 said:

What was the original question?

Click to expand...

Who cares! We're just sitting around talking as some of us always do. Lol
We'll cover some more stuff later.
Sit back and relax...

Ferd Turgeson said:

Look for one with Parker pumps.

Click to expand...

That's what I think I'll do... I've been researching and the Parker units seem to be heavy duty

Jimmy the Lock said:

That's what I think I'll do... I've been researching and the Parker units seem to be heavy duty

Click to expand...

Yes. Old school. But you are then limited to just a few high end commercial machines and the prices are really up there.

TobyU said:

prices are really up there.

Click to expand...

Everything is more expensive...................

7394 said:

Everything is more expensive...................

Click to expand...

Yeah, Joe Bribemnomics at work

I found a decent deal I'll probably go ahead and do this week...

2023 Spartan Mowers RZ-HD 54 in.
Kawasaki FR691V 23 hp
$9089

I checked and they don't offer the Harley engine on this model.

7394 said:

Everything is more expensive...................

Click to expand...

Yes, most things are up but you jump up to a different tier level when you start getting separate pumps and wheel motors.

TobyU said:

Yes, most things are up but you jump up to a different tier level when you start getting separate pumps and wheel motors.

Click to expand...

Well, I'd like for this thing to last for years... I just wished I could get the Harley Hog engine

Jimmy the Lock said:

That's what I think I'll do... I've been researching and the Parker units seem to be heavy duty

Click to expand...

Yes they do but getting parts and tools are nearly impossible to repair them. Very few sources for the parts.

I was looking into repairing on the TE wheel motors earlier and bearing install tool has to made by a local machine shop. $$$$. I kinda hoping to call Parker and they might have tool anyways but no SKU to order it by. I think I have found a telephone number for Parker here in Tennessee and I will try calling this coming week.

It does seems like more money goes out the door for parts and tools lately than I charge for out the door for.

As for inflation being down it how you look at it. Things are only going up but at a slower pace. We kinda need some deflation to get back to a normal pricing level. But we got to deal with all the wage increases too now. It one of dang if you do and dang if you don't thing. Otherwords can't win for losing.

And can't blame everything on one person. Lots of people are behind the price increases. Mainly businesses and their workers. Just like are going jack us on the beef prices because the loses in Texas on. Otherwords they want us to pay them for the lost anyway. Since I already avoid beef due the high prices it can just rot in the meat displays for my part. I think the last time I had a steak was two years ago. Everytime they raise the food prices it never goes back down as quickly like fuel prices. Gas goes up very Jack rabbit fast but comes down slower than a snail pace.

StarTech said:

Yes they do but getting parts and tools are nearly impossible to repair them. Very few sources for the parts.

Click to expand...

Apparently the Parker units are hydraulic and not hydrostatic so they should be much more heavy duty and able to last much longer. I'll need to contact Amsoil to see what synthetic hydraulic fluid they offer for these units.

If these units would last 10 trouble free years... I'd be happy.

By that time the gubment will probably outlaw mowing your own yard and you'll have to pay for gubment lackies to come mow your yard with gay solar yard mowing transgender robot drones or some other BS

Jimmy the Lock said:

Well, I'd like for this thing to last for years... I just wished I could get the Harley Hog engine
View attachment 67922

Click to expand...

You mean like my HD Flathead ?

7394 said:

You mean like my HD Flathead ?

Click to expand...

Yeah, that'd be totally redneck to have a HD Flathead on yer mower!
If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to build a Harley lawn mower!

It's gonna be loud so I may have to build an air conditioned enclosure... with dark tinted windows.

I better make the enclosure bullet proof in case other lawn mower gangs try to do a drive by while I'm out mowing on my Harley Hog

But which engine ?

That Flathead would work just fine!

Got a friend that put a HD 45" Flatty on his mower, & a snow plow on in winter.

Now all we need to do is start an outlaw lawn mower club!

OK then

Yeah, an outlaw lawn mower club could steal other people's lawn mowing jobs, race dirty at the
lawn mower races, and smuggle illegal mulch to homeowners who are friends of the club as
we hang out with our old ladies and get lawn mower tats.

Anybody got a line on some illegal mulch

nope.

OK man, we got buyers if you can find the mulch.