Export thread

I have noticed in the newer Briggs Operators manual they include a Vanguard Synthetic 15w-50 motor oil option on the oil chart. It is marketed to commercial use. It claims to reduce oil consumption. I am asking because I have an older Quantum engine on a walk behind that burns a bit of oil. I have concerns of fouling the plug. Would this be better than the recommended SAE 30 oil on an engine that burns a bit more oil than normal.? I assume any 15w-50 synthetic motor oil (i.e. Mobil 1)they have at the store will be close enough and there is nothing particularly special about this Briggs Vanguard branded oil. Maybe it has a bit more zinc. Again, my interest is in addressing excessive oil consumption and somewhat concerned with potentially fouling the plug prematurely. Would it be easier to start on a colder day too? I assume so.

https://www.briggsandstratton.com/na/en_us/products/other-products/vanguard-oil.html

15w50 is actually a thinner oil than the 30w oil you are using now. The new Vanguard 15w50 was marketed as an oil to use in higher temp areas like commercial cutters running is the southern states. Then it became the recommended oil for the large 35-40 hp Vanguard engines.

At start up it is thinner. It may cause smoking until it gets to operating temp. I may be better off with some kind of additive. It only smokes at a cold start up for 2 seconds. Otherwise no smoke. Thanks.

The Quantum series is an aluminum bore motor, really might want to run a good 30wt with an anti-wear additive to protect what's left of the cylinder walls.

I have a 35hp Vanguard I use commercially on my exmark. I’ve always used mobile 1 10-30 full synthetic I have never had a problem.3700 hours on it now.

nbpt100 said:

At start up it is thinner. It may cause smoking until it gets to operating temp. I may be better off with some kind of additive. It only smokes at a cold start up for 2 seconds. Otherwise no smoke. Thanks.

Click to expand...

The Quantum series is an aluminum bore motor, really might want to run a good 30wt with an anti-wear additive to protect what's left of the cylinder walls.

Click to expand...

https://www.propartsdirect.net/sae30-kinetix-oil.aspx
might start running this, has more Zinc (ZDDP) anti wear additive than most automotive or other oils, helps your Cam and most other "metal to metal" contact surfaces.

I was in the auto parts store looking at additives. STP has a ZDDP additive. There are so many additives out there. The parts counter guy recommended Lucas high mileage oil stabilizer.

I did not see any 15W-50 motor oil but I did see a 20W-50 motor oil. I bought the 20W-50. I did a test and poured out a bit of both the 20W-50 and the straight 30 weight in a clean metal dish. At 75 Degrees the 20W-50 is clearly thicker and more viscous. It sounds like a reasonable option. I believe the W number is at 32 Deg F.? S0meone Correct me If I am mistaken. That is a temp that a lawn mower will never be used in or even close. With oil additives the viscosity you end up with is so dependent on how much you add. Also, it adds another layer of complication and cost. I will use the 20W-50 alone and let you all know how it goes.

If you don't like that try Shell Rotella 15w-40 T 4, it has 1,200ppm of ZDDP (zinc) as well as other good additives..

a Gallon is like $11. around here anyhow. My Mower is happy using it..

7394 said:

If you don't like that try Shell Rotella 15w-40 T 4, it has 1,200ppm of ZDDP (zinc) as well as other good additives..

a Gallon is like $11. around here anyhow. My Mower is happy using it..

Click to expand...

Thanks for that suggestion. I may try that. I will see if they have it in a 15w-50. I don't see a lot of benefit in a synthetic on an engine that has 50 hour oil change intervals (or less) and is used in warm weather ( > 50 F ). Unless the synthetic did not visible smoke as much as a conventional oil. Which is may or may not. I also like the Kinetix as well if they had it in similar weights. I have not seen that in any auto parts stores around here. Looks like an internet order item.

I did try the 20w-50 today and it actually smoked a lot more at start up. It does not smoke while running but at start up it was 10x worse than with the SAE 30. It must be something about the oil that creates more smoke. I may want to try a Diesel oil that is designed for less soot.

I have 20w-50 here for the bikes. But the Rotella T-4 (15w-40) is noticeably thicker, & is JASO approved for air cooled engines, like my Kawasaki.
Plus can't beat the price, Walmart usually has it on sale, or Tractor Supply. Don't think they make a 15w-50 that would be extremely thick.

I spoke to a Tech @ Rotella & he said the Rotella T-4 is ideal for solid lifter engines, like mine. & the Additives are good for it as well.


But you make sure it is good for your engine..

Interesting that the Rotella is thicker than the 20w-50. I clearly could see by comparison the 20w-50 I used was much thicker than the SAE 30 and yet it smoked more at start up.....significantly more. I think it has more to do with how the individual oil burns as much as how much leaks into the combustion chamber. I did pick up some Rotella T4 tonight and will try it.

I also soaked the piston with some Seafoam as I read somewhere that it can dissolve carbon build up on the rings which may cause some oil burning and certainly blow back.

I will see how it goes tomorrow.

nbpt100 said:

At start up it is thinner. It may cause smoking until it gets to operating temp. I may be better off with some kind of additive. It only smokes at a cold start up for 2 seconds. Otherwise no smoke. Thanks.

Click to expand...

I was always under the impression that oil get's a little thinner when it heats up. Example, if you put oil in the fridge or freezer, it's hard as heck to pour out. Same oil after engine has heated up, will drip off the end of a dip stick.

Here's an explanation of multi viscosity oils.

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

cpurvis said:

Here's an explanation of multi viscosity oils.

http://www.upmpg.com/tech_articles/motoroil_viscosity/

Click to expand...

I must be reading this wrong. It makes the lower number sound as if it's thinner. And the higher number as if it's thicker. How could be possible? Take a bottle of 5w 30 oil and put in your freezer over night. The next day, try to poor it out of the bottle? It's thick as heck. Run your engine for 20 minutes and pull the drain plug. It's thin as heck.
They're explaining it backwards from what I've seen with my own eyes.

What am I missing?

PTmowerMech said:

I must be reading this wrong. It makes the lower number sound as if it's thinner. And the higher number as if it's thicker. How could be possible? Take a bottle of 5w 30 oil and put in your freezer over night. The next day, try to poor it out of the bottle? It's thick as heck. Run your engine for 20 minutes and pull the drain plug. It's thin as heck.
They're explaining it backwards from what I've seen with my own eyes.

What am I missing?

Click to expand...

Put a bottle of 30W in the freezer along with your 10W-30 and compare how they pour. They're both going to have the same viscosity at 210F; it's the low temp where the difference in viscosity is apparent, not the high temp.

cpurvis said:

Put a bottle of 30W in the freezer along with your 10W-30 and compare how they pour. They're both going to have the same viscosity at 210F; it's the low temp where the difference in viscosity is apparent, not the high temp.

Click to expand...

And that's a vital asset when starting an engine that has sat all week. Gotta get that thin oil in & quickly circulated. :thumbsup:

Good Link Cpurvis..

cpurvis said:

Put a bottle of 30W in the freezer along with your 10W-30 and compare how they pour. They're both going to have the same viscosity at 210F; it's the low temp where the difference in viscosity is apparent, not the high temp.

Click to expand...

I understand that much. But seems the way this is written, that colders oil (say 5w), would pour easier than when it heats up to the 30 (as in 5w-30) But when you take it out of the fridge, it pours slower.

I don't know. It's not that big of a deal.

I can remember way back in my gas station days when multigrade oil first came out it was like a miracle. We used to go inside and get warm oil to add a quart of 20 or 30 weight, the multigrade would pour right out from the outside rack. They say the 10w30 when cold will pour like a 10 weight standard oil, true, and stiffen up like a 30 weight when hot, could be, some kind of worms swell up when hot to give it more body. I'm using 15w40 Rotella in about everything these days. They will change it probably at some point and screw it up for our use though like all the SN and SN+ oils of today.

tom3 said:

I can remember way back in my gas station days when multigrade oil first came out it was like a miracle. We used to go inside and get warm oil to add a quart of 20 or 30 weight, the multigrade would pour right out from the outside rack. They say the 10w30 when cold will pour like a 10 weight standard oil, true, and stiffen up like a 30 weight when hot, could be, some kind of worms swell up when hot to give it more body. I'm using 15w40 Rotella in about everything these days. They will change it probably at some point and screw it up for our use though like all the SN and SN+ oils of today.

Click to expand...

Not to worry, they already have.

Some brands the latest rating, CK-4, is not backward compatible. Ford has issued a statement not to use any CK-4 oil unless it carries Ford's specification on the label. Rotella T-4 meets the Ford spec; Mobil Delvac does not.

There was a discussion on here about it. In fact, I think I started the thread but I can't find it now.

Uh oh. Thanks for the info, time to stock up.

The T4 Rotella still meets that Ford standard. & I don't have a Ford tho.

So it is my understanding the T4 is still as good as it was..

Cpurvis- I know you & I had discussed this in depth.. Maybe that was what you referred to ?

7394 said:

The T4 Rotella still meets that Ford standard. & I don't have a Ford tho.

So it is my understanding the T4 is still as good as it was..

Cpurvis- I know you & I had discussed this in depth.. Maybe that was what you referred to ?

Click to expand...

Yes, we did but I can't find it now. Maybe it was in a thread someone else started?

cpurvis said:

Yes, we did but I can't find it now. Maybe it was in a thread someone else started?

Click to expand...

IIRC it was in PM..

You're right, it was in a PM. I'm going to share a bit of it here in case tom3 is interested:

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrica...otor Company CK-4 FA-4 Position Statement.pdf

Interesting stuff. Rural King's Harvest King 15w40 oil is listed for Ford, 5 gallon bucket under $40. Listed as CJ-4 SM. Might be an old listing though? This oil deal for older and non-automotive engines is a mess.

I just research up something good & stick with it.

Hoping I've solved my problems, Rotella for the twins (and old Camaro), Delvac 30 for the small motors. Note the API SF rating. Anyway I think I've quit looking.

We still have to remain vigilant. Once the API decided that the CK-4 rating didn't have to be backward compatible, everything changed.

cpurvis said:

We still have to remain vigilant. Once the API decided that the CK-4 rating didn't have to be backward compatible, everything changed.

Click to expand...

But the Rotella T 4 is backwards compatible.. So I read.

That's true. So are all the other oils on the list that Ford provided. But the fact that some don't meet the specs that CJ-4 did means that it isn't backward compatible.

It used to be that all you needed to know was the 'weight' and API cert in your owner's manual and anything with that cert or higher could be used in your engine. Not true anymore. Unless your engine manufacturer's blessing is on the container, you just don't know if it's OK or not. It may be (Rotella T-4) or it may not (Mobil Delvac).

Cpurvis- I agree, different world anymore..

I called Rotella today & spoke to a tech, he said the T4 formula has remained unchanged.. FWIW.

I think these oil companies really don't want us to know what is actually in the oils. Got a bottle of Kohler oil a while back, rear label said "meets or exceeds api sj" or something like that. The "exceeds" part is an open door to disaster for some motors that require the barrier lubrication of the older oils. Remember when oil was advertised with graphite in it, see some black stuff in the bottom of the jug even.

As we know, no mower engine maker produces their own oil, they sub it out to the best price for their specs.

So.....