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Hi guys!

New to the forum, and looks like a great place to hang out at. Do any of you guys have this same problem???

Here is my story:

After losing everything I own with 15ft of water for almost month in Arabi, La. after hurricane Katrina, I relocated to higher ground on the Northshore of New Orleans in the early part of 2006. With that said, I bought a house with 3 acres of land, thus needing a riding lawnmower. After a couple months of researching in many forums I decided on a small commercial ztr machine, and felt that a Gravely 44Z was a nice unit within my budget. I sought out units online, which were about $400 cheaper, with free shipping, and no sales tax, then the closest Gravely dealer in my area. (which is by the way is 16 miles away). The dealer however, offered free trailer rental to customers who bought from him. Since I did not have trailer, and should I need repairs in the future he would be there for me. So, I decided to go ahead and buy it from the dealer. Here is my story of why I say I am at the mercy of my Gravely dealer:

For the past 7 years I have done my own maintenance, like blade replacement, oil filter, oil changes, air filter, fuel filter changes, and replaced my solenoid and battery. Well a couple of weeks ago my Hydro V-belt broke, so instead of me dealing with it I decided for the first time to utilize the dealers free trailer rental, and let the dealer change the belt. I was told on the phone by one of the counter people that it would be 45 minute labor at $70.00 an hour, and $22 bucks for the belt. So I would be looking at around $85 with tax and shop fees. Since I never changed any belts before, and it would require the removal of two of the other belts, I felt that was a fair price. Before I left I told them that the belt was the only work I wanted them to do. Well a couple days later I got a call from the owner, telling me the bill came to $234.00. Needless to say, I asked why and was not happy! He said that I needed a Hydro oil and filter service change, and new blades too. I told him, well I have a new set of blades at home, and was planning on putting them on after picking up the mower from him. I told him that I only authorized a belt change replacement to the guy behind the counter, at the price he quoted me on the phone. I am out of work, and coming up with an extra $150 bucks would not be easy to do. I said you should have called me first, before doing work you were not authorize to do. Then the owner told me that they do the work that their customers need all the time like that, and that is just how it is. I told him if he went to his mechanic shop to have his shocks replaced and they replace his tires along with his shocks, saying well your threads were low so we replaced your tires, would you be happy with that? He then got mad, and said he would take the blades off, but that it is to late for the Hydro service. (I might add that in my Kawasaki manual has this hydro service being done at 500 hours, not at the 163 hours that I have on my Z44) So with him taking off the new blades off that he replaced, my bill was reduced to $193 bucks including a solenoid I purchase when I picked it up.

Here is where the big problem starts. First I want to say that it was ready on Friday and I was schedule to pick it up using their trailer on Saturday morning. But on Friday evening I got a call back from the owner telling me that their trailer had an axle problem, and it would not be available until Tuesday. He also said then, that he put my old blades back on for me. When I got there on Tuesday there were a total of 4trailers available to use, so since he was not there Tuesday, I figured I was pushed back to Tuesday because he was working on Saturday and did not want to face me. (I figured pushing me to Tuesday was his way of getting back at me for getting him mad with my shock/tires illustration.) When I got home I changed the solenoid with no problem, but none of my 15/16 bolts on my blades would budge, even with my impact gun. The first time I replaced them from the factory install, I removed them with my small 1/2 ratchet with no problems, and the last time I replaced these blades I tighten them back up with my 1/2 ratchet to the torq of 115ft lbs as recommended in the manual. It is funny how he left my old belt and filter on my mower when I picked up, but yet he reinstalled my old blades back on my Z44, knowing I would be replacing them when I got home. In my heart I believe that the reason he went though the trouble of reinstalling my old blades, is because he wanted to use "locktite" to make sure I could not get them off when I got home.

I am in the process of taking my mower to a car mechanic friend that said he has an impact that should get it off, because it removes bolts up to 1,000 ft lbs.

What do you guys think of this, and what actions would you take if any?

P.S. The next nearest Gravely dealer is 26 miles away.

I worked at dealers for over 25 years as a mechanic. I wouldn't take anything to any dealer for any repairs and if I did it would be only for major warranty work only. I have seen too many of them big bills. One of the jobs of the dealers mechanic is to sell work and parts.

Wow.
It sounds like your local dealer is a thief, with a side of vindictive douche. I would contact the other dealer and ask about their services. I have multiple dealers here that offer mobile service, along with p/u and delivery. You sound handy/ self sufficient, that your needs for them are minimal, but I would definitely check them out before future needs arise.

so true rynoldston but it should be the mechanics job to find other things wrong but the service managers job to sell the parts and work i own a auto repair shop and i would never dream of doing this to a customers car i try and up sale sure but i dont do the work without getting the customers approval if it were me i would not have paid the bill other then what was on the work order to have done since it wasnt sold to the customer first and i would never deal with that shop again if it were me times are hard for shops now days big or small so we need to try and make the money some where but times aint just hard for the shops its hard for the customers to and without them we dont exist so if you do work on a customer car or mower that he cant pay for and he didnt give his approval then your out the money and that dont make the time any easer on you plus i think you would just loose a customer and that didnt help either it takes a long time to build a good reputation but it dont take long to destroy it word of mouth works both ways thats just my 2 cents take it for what its worth good luck

scott47429 said:

so true rynoldston but it should be the mechanics job to find other things wrong but the service managers job to sell the parts and work i own a auto repair shop and i would never dream of doing this to a customers car i try and up sale sure but i dont do the work without getting the customers approval if it were me i would not have paid the bill other then what was on the work order to have done since it wasnt sold to the customer first and i would never deal with that shop again if it were me times are hard for shops now days big or small so we need to try and make the money some where but times aint just hard for the shops its hard for the customers to and without them we dont exist so if you do work on a customer car or mower that he cant pay for and he didnt give his approval then your out the money and that dont make the time any easer on you plus i think you would just loose a customer and that didnt help either it takes a long time to build a good reputation but it dont take long to destroy it word of mouth works both ways thats just my 2 cents take it for what its worth good luck

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Scott,

I love you post, but I have to confess that I had to take a few breaths to finish it. :laughing:

Hey guys!

Do you think using that mechanic's large commercial air compressor and impact gun, will not damage those 15/16 blade bolts, if he used the stronge strenght version of locktite on them?

hey satman858 sorry i didnt pass english i didnt figure i needed it anyway being a mechanic but any who i never use punctuation ........ lol

satman858 said:

Hey guys!

Do you think using that mechanic's large commercial air compressor and impact gun, will not damage those 15/16 blade bolts, if he used the stronge strenght version of locktite on them?

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Bolts are replaceable

exotion said:

Bolts are replaceable

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Yea, I know that, but what I am afraid of is breaking off the head of the bolts with such a stronge impact pressure. What do you guys think?

scott47429 said:

hey satman858 sorry i didnt pass english i didnt figure i needed it anyway being a mechanic but any who i never use punctuation ........ lol

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Don't feel bad. You should see my post without spell check. :laughing:

The problem with over tightening bolts with an impact, Loctite or not, is that the threads can get galled,(tight just before stripping) and any attempt at loosening will strip threads.

As for the dealer, trash him on the internet. Look him up through Google, and websites will be there to allow you to review(Yelp comes to mind). Then, write old fashioned letters to Gravely and the local BBB. Then do the 26 miles to the other dealer and hope he's not a crook as well.

satman858 said:

Don't feel bad. You should see my post without spell check. :laughing:

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Wee have speel chex?

RatRacer said:

Wee have speel chex?

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:laughing::laughing:

Mini Motors said:

The problem with over tightening bolts with an impact, Loctite or not, is that the threads can get galled,(tight just before stripping) and any attempt at loosening will strip threads.

As for the dealer, trash him on the internet. Look him up through Google, and websites will be there to allow you to review(Yelp comes to mind). Then, write old fashioned letters to Gravely and the local BBB. Then do the 26 miles to the other dealer and hope he's not a crook as well.

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I would have never tighten the bolts with an impact, I would only use it to loosen them. My fear is that the dealer over tighten them.

Do you think if I get them off okay, I should replace them especially if I heat is needed to get them off?

The lady at Locktite told me that heat from a torch would help them to free up if permanent locktite was used.

Maybe , just plan on replacing the bolts from the git go . It would make for a fairly inexpensive excuse to visit the OTHER dealer . :thumbsup:

satman858 said:

I would have never tighten the bolts with an impact, I would only use it to loosen them. My fear is that the dealer over tighten them.

Do you think if I get them off okay, I should replace them especially if I heat is needed to get them off?

The lady at Locktite told me that heat from a torch would help them to free up if permanent locktite was used.

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I don't think you did it, I'm thinking the dealer did it on purpose. But yes, replace them. Not so much because of heat, although if you use a torch, it might temper them. Replace them because they are most assuredly galled. You'll be able to tell if when they come out difficultly thru out the entire length of the thread, without any evidence of Loctite, they're galled. Before you try heat, try leverage. Try a socket(preferably a 6 point), breaker bar and a pipe. And hope that the blade holder isn't damaged.

as long as he did not cross thread the bolts in, you will be fine. I work for a heavy duty truck shop and quite honestly, we tighten bolts with 15/16" heads with impact guns all the time. If he put Loctite, on, then yes, heating the spindle shafts up a little bit will help loosen it. Just don't go nuts with the torch and get the shaft hot enough to damage the seal in your spindles or fry the grease. But yes, an impact gun should get them out no problem, especially if your mechanic friend has one of the newer guns. If he did put Loctite on them, just be sure to clean the old Loctite off of them before putting the blades back on. But I would definitely be taking my stuff to the other dealer. I know this other guy offered free use of his trailers, but what good is it to you if he gives you a hard time, peforms unapproved and unnecessary work, and you have to wait to pick up your mower because he doesn't have a trailer available. And if he did cross thread the bolts in, I would be taking pictures of the damage and going down there to question him about it.

Sorry for all the Bad Luck, but I don't think you have to worry about the heads of the bolts breaking off, I sure your friend has a good 6 point socket, and it will only take the amount of Torque that the bolts are at, may be less, those bolts are high grade bolts, most likely grade 8, once you get it apart be sure and let us know if you fine Loctite on the threads, it might be that his impact has more torque than yours, if I were you I would never darken is doors, and would tell the world how you were treated

scott47429 said:

hey satman858 sorry i didnt pass english i didnt figure i needed it anyway being a mechanic but any who i never use punctuation ........ lol

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I sure hope this forum isn't a English test because being a dumb mechanic I will surely fail. Now as far as a 15/16 bolt go's take a long breaker bar with a good 6 point socket and will bet you aren't going to break a bolt that big by hand or a impact gun. A 15/16 bolt is one big bolt. Back in my younger years that was the size of the truck rear spring U bolts and I tighten them with a 36 In 3/4 drive socket wrench and couldn't break one if I tried.

reynoldston said:

I sure hope this forum isn't a English test because being a dumb mechanic I will surely fail. Now as far as a 15/16 bolt go's take a long breaker bar with a good 6 point socket and will bet you aren't going to break a bolt that big by hand or a impact gun. A 15/16 bolt is one big bolt. Back in my younger years that was the size of the truck rear spring U bolts and I tighten them with a 36 In 3/4 drive socket wrench and couldn't break one if I tried.

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I watched a 1 1/2 wrench break once my old boss couldn't get it off so he spot welded the wrench to the bolt took a 5 foot pipe to the end of it three of is held it and pushed while he sledge hammered it watch the wrench snap after the fourth hit. How ever it worked. Un related but reading this reminded me of it. It was on this weird factory machine that he wanted some part off of.

Thanks guys for all of your replies.

I should being getting it over to my mechanic friend in the next couple of days, when I can get my friend with a trailer hitch to help me. I didn't know until the other day that one of my cousins has a trailer almost identical the the trailers the dealer uses, and he is going to lead it to me. :thumbsup:

I will let everyone know how it turns out after it is done.

I would make a video of you using that big impact to get the blades off and if there is Loctite on there make sure you get that also. Then I'd send that out to Gravely and make a formal complaint about the sorry dealer that did this.

If it were me, I would make a copy of this posting and send it to this dealership owner. You have not mentioned his name, but will be sending it to all the manufacturers of the brands he sells. If he has no response, then do just that. His actions give all dealerships and mechanics a bad name, and the manufacturers will definitely be talking to him. I know you have talked to him once, but before filing any complaints, give him a chance to explain his side. One thing I did not see in your post, did you sign a repair agreement when you dropped off the unit? Most good dealers have one which is there to both the dealership and the customer. If you did, reread it carefully, as you may have authorized him to do things you didn't want done when you signed it. I have seen some of these agreements stating "I authorize this dealership to preform all repairs they deem necessary to get this unit in a safety operating condition." This is a way for them to bill you for anything they feel might be an unsafe condition, even though it is not covered in the work you want done.

Okay guys here is what happened with the bolts, and something new that I just discovered.

First off the bolts easily came off with my mechanic friends impact gun that he had his auto repair shop. It appears to me that there is no trace of "locktite" on the bolts, they were just tighten with their industrial strenght compressor and impact gun, torqed far above my compressor and impact gun capabilities. Still even though I feel that they may not have used locktite, they did intentionally impact the bolts to a torq strenght way above what is recommended in the owners manual. (see photo below of bolts, enlarge the picture, and give me your opinion on if you think locktite was used, or if because of the high torq strenght impacted by them, these bolts need to be replaced)

Here is the second thing I noticed last night. I decided to check on their other work, and while I know the air filter and v-belt was changed because they left the old ones on the mower, I know for a FACT they did not change the oil element they charge me parts and labor for. (which I now realize is my oil filter). I did NOT know until I looked in my manual, that what is called an oil element, is actually what I have always called an oil filter. (If you look at the photo of oil filter on my machine and the one in my hand, you will see that they are the same exact filter as the box of filters I use, also shown in a photo). The filter on my 44Z is new, because I changed it with my yearly oil change just 3 weeks ago, so the oil filter they say I needed that they said they changed was another lie, as it was not changed nor was it needed.


P.S. Also remember that an hydro oil change is recommended to be changed every 500 hours in my manual, and as you will see on my work order receipt (see photo) my 44z has but 163 hours on it. As for as the Hydro oil change being done, I do not know for sure, but the oil on the stick does look to be clear and clean.

Do any of you guys think these bolts pictured in my last post need to be replaced?

I think your bolts are OK, I watch for the head of the bolt for ware, if you use a set of bolts to long, If you use a set of bolts to long, they can ware to the point where a socket has trouble griping the head,

Rat

LakeRat1 said:

I think your bolts are OK, I watch for the head of the bolt for wear, if you use a set of bolts to long, If you use a set of bolts too long, they can wear to the point where a socket has trouble gripping the head,

Rat

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Thanks for your reply, Rat.

As for the bolts, the heads on the bolts are not bad at all. This morning I tried screwing them back in by hand without the blades, and they screwed in without any problem at all. What I am concerned about is the fact that they were impacted WAY MORE that the 115-125ft lbs the manual suggest they be tighten.


Could the over tightening in the past cause the bolts to lose their normal strength, if I only torque tighten them to the recommended 115-125ft lbs?



All suggestions from forum members are welcomed?

The price of bolts VS everything that can go wrong if they break or are stretched would be some of the cheapest insurance you ever bought.
Also, I would speak with the General manager of the Dealer Principal and tell them your story. They may not care but on the off chance that they do, you might be protecting the next guy that goes there.

Be sure to chase the threads and use new high grade bolts!! Also contact the factory rep for your area and tell your story to that person!

I will be buying the 3 factory blade bolts (Hex .62-18 x 1.75 grade 8) for $3.50 each in the morning, from one of the other Gravely dealers 26 miles away. The washers are $5.00 each, but to me they seem to be okay, and they only have one in stock anyway. Since they said that they have plenty of the blade bolts in stock, but only have 1 washer, that tells me that most people buy that bolts but not the washers.

As for what I am going to do about the injustice I have face from this dealer, I will deal with it on Monday, and let everyone know what my actions were. Thanks for all the suggestions of things that I can do. He is not only a Gravely dealer, but is a dealer for their big brother Ariens, and also an Exmark dealer. Letters to them might go on deaf ears because they are salesmen, and most of the time they are just happy to have as many dealers as possible in an area. If my letter or email would reach someone up high enough within their company, then maybe it might trigger at least a warning letter to him concerning his unethical practices, which they feel could tarnish their name. I think I might even have a better idea on what can be done, so people can see what kind of dealer they may face if going to him for their mower repairs. I will let you know on Monday.

satman858 said:

I will be buying the 3 factory blade bolts (Hex .62-18 x 1.75 grade 8) for $3.50 each in the morning, from one of the other Gravely dealers 26 miles away. The washers are $5.00 each, but to me they seem to be okay, and they only have one in stock anyway. Since they said that they have plenty of the blade bolts in stock, but only have 1 washer, that tells me that most people buy that bolts but not the washers.

As for what I am going to do about the injustice I have face from this dealer, I will deal with it on Monday, and let everyone know what my actions were. Thanks for all the suggestions of things that I can do. He is not only a Gravely dealer, but is a dealer for their big brother Ariens, and also an Exmark dealer. Letters to them might go on deaf ears because they are salesmen, and most of the time they are just happy to have as many dealers as possible in an area. If my letter or email would reach someone up high enough within their company, then maybe it might trigger at least a warning letter to him concerning his unethical practices, which they feel could tarnish their name. I think I might even have a better idea on what can be done, so people can see what kind of dealer they may face if going to him for their mower repairs. I will let you know on Monday.

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If you have the cash, take out a full page ad in his local paper!! Documenting exactly what went on! Don't embellish any part of the story! Then see how long it takes to get action!!

Wow, satman858, based on your seemingly honest information, you sure have been treated badly.
We must live pretty close.. I'm just north of Abita Springs off highway 59.
Is this dealer in the Covington area? Slidell?
Unless he works on Snappers I just want to make sure NOT to go there without watching my back!

HarryHarley said:

Wow, satman858, based on your seemingly honest information, you sure have been treated badly.
We must live pretty close.. I'm just north of Abita Springs off highway 59.
Is this dealer in the Covington area? Slidell?
Unless he works on Snappers I just want to make sure NOT to go there without watching my back!

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HarryHarley,

Yes, the dealer was B.A.M.S. on Lee rd in Covington. I passed close to your house on my way home up hwy 36. I live the other end of hwy 36 a couple miles up hwy 41.

I will be dropping the bomb shell later tonight on what actions I took today. :thumbsup:

cant wait to hear. hope it worked out for ya:thumbsup:

satman858 said:

I will be dropping the bomb shell later tonight on what actions I took today. :thumbsup:

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I have run out of popcorn...hurry.

Okay guys! Here is what I did today!

If you google Hans' Repair Service Inc you will see that there are quite a few reviews on both page 1 and 2 of the google search. My reviews include Nola.com the New Orleans Newspaper/Website publication for the metro New Orleans area, Mapquest.com, Topix.com, both Yellowpages.com and Superpages.com, along with the BIG BOOMSHELL sitting right there on page 1 for all to see.

That BOMBSHELL is Ripoffreports.com. Take the time to read the reviws linked below, especially the post in Ripoffreports.com and scroll far enough down the report to read the updated information and photo's I place in their website. :thumbsup:

Who is laughing now Mr. Han's! :laughing:


Hans' Repair Svc Inc in Slidell, LA 70461 - NOLA.com

Hans Repair Service Inc - 40020 Highway 190 E, Slidell, LA 70461 | MapQuest

Hans Repair Service Inc - Slidell, LA

Hans' Repair Svc Inc Slidell, LA, 70461 - YP.com

Hans' Repair Service Inc in Slidell, LA | 40020 Highway 190 E, Slidell, LA

Ripoff Report | Hans' Repair Service Inc Complaint Review Slidell, Louisiana: 1063816

Hans' Repair Service Inc Slidell La - Google Search.




P.S. The best thing about all the time I spent doing this is that my review was the first and only review on his company. :thumbsup: