Export thread

Sorry For New Post. Read thru 7 pages for info. Forum searches never work for me. Anyhow - We have 10% ethenol year round in WA state (Nice scam someone is getting mega rich from).

I have never done anything with my push mowers and they seem to start in the spring. Does Ethenol Kill small 2 cycle engines because they are smaller and the carbs have tiny openings that clog easier than cars/trucks and push mower engines?

I have a Shindaiwa T242 laying around that I should fix some day. Bought a nice Echo because nosy neighbor is a **** about weed seeds blowing over fence. Yesterday I poured old gas out of it and poured in a small amount of $5 ethanol free 50:1 bottle gas then ran it dry. I ssume the $5 bottle gas is able to sit on shelf at Home Depot just because its sealed up very tightly?

I put "Stabile" in the T242 thinking that would keep it fresh over the winter. Didn't work at all.

What do most of you do about this stupid problem. I guess I could start a check list and drive around starting up 3 mowers and 2 line trimers, chain saw etc a few times a month during the winter! Worst of all is a seldom used boat with a massive 5.7 liter V8 and 60 gallon gas tank. Didn't use it a single time this year but I bet it will start next year. I DOES have a Volvo water seperating fuel filter though. Do cars/trucks use more expensive rubber parts and what not? Is it fuel injection that makes them different than small engines?


Seems like ethanol thing is just like low flush toilets that you end up flushing twice and a lot of other Guv Mandated stuff that just creates more problems?

Interesting How WA state had a yearly vehicle emissions scam going for at least 20 years and now they are supposdely going to let it phaze out in 2020. (some one didn't pony up enough payolla or something? ) Can't think of ANY other "tax" that has ever gone away! Pretty wierd given all the Carbon BS and our Governer being the Top Promotor of said BS!

Sorry off topic - but how to keep 2 cycle equipment working w/o using it once a week!?

OK once I posted this than a ton of "threads similar to this" popped up. Looks like its mostly a function of cars having huge fuel tanks and get used more often than my line trimmer. Guess I will always run it out of gas and hope that does the trick. And I guess spend$ on Eth Free bottle gas since alot easier than trying to fix carbs.

IMHO it's about usage, cars get used more, and generally don't sit for 4 months or more.
Small 4 and 2 cycle may get used everyday in some cases, but the average homeowner 1 or 2 times a week for probably 1 hour. Then it sits overwinter with gasenol in it, and ethanol attracts water out of the air, and starts to varnish and gum up passages.
That's why you either run your equipment say once a week for a few minutes, or if your equipment has a fuel shutoff valve, start the engine, shutoff the fuel and let it run until it starves for fuel.

When ethanol first came on the scene it caused significant issues with small engines. But engine manufacturers solved many of those problems and small engine owners learned how to avoid the others. If you follow a few simple rules, you should be able to avoid problems.

Over time, ethanol mixing with moisture causes the ethanol to separate from the gasoline, known as phase separation. The remaining gasoline has a lower octane and the ethanol water mixture is corrosive. This process takes at least two months to develop so using or draining gasoline every month or two should minimize this separation problem. Beyond that, keep the tank full to avoid moisture from entering. A fuel additive can help but won't totally eliminate the issue.

Buy gasoline in small quantities so you aren't storing gasoline for months at a time.

When small engines aren't being used for a while (such as a snow blower in winter), follow manufacturers instructions for storage.

Sort of what Tony said.
However there is a bit more to it.

There are two problems with plain unleaded fuel
One is the reduction of the amount of aromatics over time because they evaporate & without them your engine can not start when cold
The other is a residue that blocks small holes and is almost impossible to dissolve & clean out.

When you go to E10 you add the third as mentioned above by Tony.
The good thing about e10 is ethanol is a lot more volatile so it will allow an engine to start on a hot day even if all of the aromatics have evaporated.

What people forget is ONLY A GAS CAN BURN
And a carburettor can only atomise ( ie make tiny droplets ) the fuel.
If those tiny droplets can not release some gasses then all that happens is they deposit on the spark plug & short it out.

Thus you have a 3 fold stale fuel problem with e 10 as against a 2 fold problem with regular fuel .

Where the confusion comes in is LOCAL fuel chemistry and LOCAL CLIMATE ( or microclimate if you like ).
Prime example , my landlord & I both ride old motorcycles. He lives in his new house which is 500 yards away from the old one where my workshop is.
When we come back from a ride, I can fill my tank and leave it full in the knowledge that my bike will start & run fine any time in the next 4 to 6 months.
If he fills his bike, it will not start in a months time unless it gets some fresh fuel.


So for small engines it is prudent to do this if the tool is not going to be used for a month or more
1) keep lawn mower tanks completely full to prevent moisture condensing in the tank to make water drops that will sink to the bottom of the tank and combine with the ethanol.
Turn off the fuel and run the carb dry.
2) For hand held tools with cube carbs tip the fuel out , start the tool and let it run dry.

Some people will get away with 2 months and some even luckier ones might go a full year.
It is all really hit & miss and like I just mentioned can vary over a space of 500 yards.
I even had a customer where his mower fuel went stale on one side of this shed while the whipper snipper would go for a full season on the other side of the same shed

If at all possible, don't put ethanol in your small engines.

Look at this and try to find a station selling straight gas, no ethanol. www.pure-gas.org

Much cheaper than buying it in the little cans.

And to the OP, read that label on Sta-Bil, it will tell you once opened the UN-used portion remains only good for 1 year.

So it has a shelf life. If you are gonna use something that can sit on your shelf for 50 years & still be good. Try Seafoam*

Been around since 1942 or so.. And if you have to run the corn gas, getting to end of mow season get a can of proper pre-mix & fill your machines with that for over winter storage, but you must run them to get the mix into the carbs & systems.

Been around since 1942 or so..

Click to expand...

You or Seafom?:biggrin:

LOL, The Seafoam*, but I'm not too terribly far behind it.. :laughing:

When non ethanol gasoline was not available near where I live, I went to the airport near me (30 miles away). I would buy aviation gasoline because all aviation gasoline is pure gasoline. It is high octane, usually 100. My local small engine shop owner also recommended using the aviation gasoline. I lost 2 two cycle engines due to ethanol gas about 12 years ago. One was carburetor damage and the other was piston rings losing compression. Since using aviation gasoline, all of my two cycle engines have performed without issues. Last year, a local gas station began selling 91 octane non ethanol gasoline. I now use this gasoline because it is closer to me and it costs less money than aviation gasoline.

7394 said:

LOL, The Seafoam*, but I'm not too terribly far behind it.. :laughing:

Click to expand...

But on a percentage basis, you get closer to it every year.:confused2:
Stats are wonderful arn't they :laughing:

bertsmobile1 said:

But on a percentage basis, you get closer to it every year.:confused2:
Stats are wonderful arn't they :laughing:

Click to expand...

Bert- I hadn't considered that.....:confused2: But as I age, so does the date Seafoam was made.

7394 said:

Bert- I hadn't considered that.....:confused2: But as I age, so does the date Seafoam was made.

Click to expand...

This is how you tell lies with satistics
The percentage is your age difference /seafoams age x100
If I was 10 years older than you then you would be 90% younger than me at age 1
By the time you get to be 100 you would only be 9.1% younger than me.
Thus getting closer every year
Used extensively by shonks to make rubbish investment look like a good deal

When you turn from 1 to 2 your age doubles :tongue:

bertsmobile1 said:

This is how you tell lies with satistics
The percentage is your age difference /seafoams age x100
If I was 10 years older than you then you would be 90% younger than me at age 1
By the time you get to be 100 you would only be 9.1% younger than me.
Thus getting closer every year
Used extensively by shonks to make rubbish investment look like a good deal

Click to expand...

Ahh, I can see clearly now..

Scrubcadet10 said:

When you turn from 1 to 2 your age doubles :tongue:

Click to expand...

I can't even remember back that far, I'm getting so old, I fart dust.

Here's a testimonial for non-ethanol gas.

I have a Husqvarna 55 chain saw. The last time I used it was last spring. It still had gas in it from that outing, which was felling a big, dead black locust tree and cutting up the limbs. That was sometime in late March or early April.

Had to trim some trees today. Saw started and ran fine. No additives used.

cpurvis said:

Here's a testimonial for non-ethanol gas.

I have a Husqvarna 55 chain saw. The last time I used it was last spring. It still had gas in it from that outing, which was felling a big, dead black locust tree and cutting up the limbs. That was sometime in late March or early April.

Had to trim some trees today. Saw started and ran fine. No additives used.

Click to expand...

:thumbsup: That is the ticket.

I read that e-10 is banned in Alaska ? IIRC ?

7394 said:

:thumbsup: That is the ticket.

I read that e-10 is banned in Alaska ? IIRC ?

Click to expand...

I hadn't heard that but it looks like it's true. On the Pure Gas website it lists "ALL Alaska Gas Stations" in "Any Town" as having "87, 91, and 93" octane ethanol-free fuel.

cpurvis said:

I hadn't heard that but it looks like it's true. On the Pure Gas website it lists "ALL Alaska Gas Stations" in "Any Town" as having "87, 91, and 93" octane ethanol-free fuel.

Click to expand...

Thanks for verifying it Cpurvis. I read it on a Harley forum.

IMO, it costs more to make corn gas that I see as a benefit.

Normstorm said:

Sorry For New Post. Read thru 7 pages for info. Forum searches never work for me. Anyhow - We have 10% ethenol year round in WA state (Nice scam someone is getting mega rich from).

I have never done anything with my push mowers and they seem to start in the spring. Does Ethenol Kill small 2 cycle engines because they are smaller and the carbs have tiny openings that clog easier than cars/trucks and push mower engines?

I have a Shindaiwa T242 laying around that I should fix some day. Bought a nice Echo because nosy neighbor is a **** about weed seeds blowing over fence. Yesterday I poured old gas out of it and poured in a small amount of $5 ethanol free 50:1 bottle gas then ran it dry. I ssume the $5 bottle gas is able to sit on shelf at Home Depot just because its sealed up very tightly?

I put "Stabile" in the T242 thinking that would keep it fresh over the winter. Didn't work at all.

What do most of you do about this stupid problem. I guess I could start a check list and drive around starting up 3 mowers and 2 line trimers, chain saw etc a few times a month during the winter! Worst of all is a seldom used boat with a massive 5.7 liter V8 and 60 gallon gas tank. Didn't use it a single time this year but I bet it will start next year. I DOES have a Volvo water seperating fuel filter though. Do cars/trucks use more expensive rubber parts and what not? Is it fuel injection that makes them different than small engines?


Seems like ethanol thing is just like low flush toilets that you end up flushing twice and a lot of other Guv Mandated stuff that just creates more problems?

Interesting How WA state had a yearly vehicle emissions scam going for at least 20 years and now they are supposdely going to let it phaze out in 2020. (some one didn't pony up enough payolla or something? ) Can't think of ANY other "tax" that has ever gone away! Pretty wierd given all the Carbon BS and our Governer being the Top Promotor of said BS!

Sorry off topic - but how to keep 2 cycle equipment working w/o using it once a week!?

Click to expand...

Gas itself goes bad. Whether is got ethanol in it or not. Always has.

Yeah, but it takes a long time. I had (still have) an old roto tiller with a 3 hp Briggs that sat indoors for over ten years with no-ethanol gas in it. It started and ran.

cpurvis said:

Yeah, but it takes a long time. I had (still have) an old roto tiller with a 3 hp Briggs that sat indoors for over ten years with no-ethanol gas in it. It started and ran.

Click to expand...

Gas will always be somewhat explosive. Even with ethanol is explosive.
Ethanol is a flammable colorless liquid; a polar solvent that is completely miscible in water. It is heavier than air, and has a wider flammable range than gasoline, with a Lower Explosive Limit (LEL) to an Upper Explosive Limit (UEL) range of 3.3% to 19%.

Gasoline is not an explosive. It is a flammable liquid, just like ethyl alcohol. Explosives are a whole different animal.

PTmowerMech said:

Gas itself goes bad. Whether is got ethanol in it or not. Always has.

Click to expand...

Yes but the speed at which it goes bad is dependent on a lot of things that will be different from house to hose let alone state to state.
For instance, it will keep better in a steel can than a plastic one, but a steel can is more prone to condensation than a plastic one.
It will keep better if the can is full
It will keep better is it was fresh deliverd to the fue station when you bought it
It will keep even better if bought in a can sealed at the refinery.

Then there is what you call going off.
Fuel that has lost all of the aromatices has gone off & will not start a cold engine, but it will run quite fine if you start & warm the engine using some starting fluid or carb cleaner
Then even staler fuel will not burn at all or regularly cause the engine to stall out
Then there is phase separation. That fuel is also "bad" but if you syphon off the fuel on the top it will burn quite fine but again might not have enough aromatics to start a cold engine.

So if you are in a situation where the generators are essential keep a can of some sort of spray to start a dead cold engine and carb cleaner is better for the engine than starting fluid with is too volatile for a petrol engine.
Keep a small quantity of the very expensive sealed in the can from the refinery fuel .
Once the engine has been running fr 10 minutes or more you can use the older stale fuel.
And buy your bulk supply during winter so you are getting the winter blend.
People run into grief trying to use a summer blend made to be stable at 120 deg in winter when it is - 40