Intek won't turn over ( Starter??)

backporch

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the new starter didn't help. Sad to say.

With the spark plug out it spins like crazy.

I can watch the intake and exhaust valves while I turn the engine manually. I still really am not sure if the cam bump is working as it should.

I watch the intake valve doesn't appear to close until about 45 degrees before TDC. Right about when the starter stops. I don't see a pronounced bump ( closed intake open and close again). It just appears that the intake stays open a lot longer thanks to the ACR on the cam.
 

backporch

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ACR working, clearances correct, but no strong crank

I am going to make this my last post for a while.... sorry for making this thread so long.

The ACR really seems to be working correctly. I can hear the pressure release through the open intake/carb. However the motor still gets "stuck" at 45 degrees before TDC on the compression stroke. That's just about where the ACR closes the intake valve.

My new starter is a lot like the old one. I even jumpered the starter post from my truck battery and it gets stuck.

With the spark plug out the motor spins quickly with no unusual noises.

The valve clearances are set correctly and the ACR is working, but I don't know where to go next. Could I have replaced a weak starter with a new starter with issues?
 

Fish

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Did you remove all of the carbon buildup from both combustion chambers?
 

backporch

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Re: Intek won't turn over ( PTO??)

The mower cranked really well the other day. Like all of a sudden something started working.

I got compression readings around 100psi. Crank was strong and fast. Purchased a new battery, gassed it up and after a little cranking it fired up and ran.

Next day I wanted to see if the transmission worked. Fired it up and put in gear, released brake and it stalled. Same thing happened again. Pushed it outside, started it up and engaged the PTO switch... stalled. I think it would only run with the brake on. Even in neutral it stalled when I released the brake. I was sure it was something to do with the belt being stuck... At some point there was a good amount of smoke. Wasnt oil burning off the exhaust.

Maybe now this makes some sense. Was the PTO resisting the engine cranking. Is my PTO gone? I don't really know how it works, but my next task will be to take it out and break it down. Not sure if they can be evaluated and rebuilt. New units are not cheap and I am not going to throw money at this mower until I at least make sure the transmission works.

Any thoughts about the PTO being the culprit? Can they be rebuilt?
 

Fish

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Sounds like you have a bad/misaligned safety switch, probably at the seat. But the smoke thing needs to be figured out too.
 

backporch

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I did disconnect the seat sensor. Thought I made the mower think I was in the seat all the time. Must have gotten that backwards.

Assuming my disconnecting the seat harness made it look like I was NOT sitting in the seat, is it possible to start the engine, but not move when not sitting? I thought even starting would be disabled.

I would love to see a writeup on how the PTO is supposed to work. Maybe I can find that somewhere
 

Tinkerer200

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Well it would be nice to know WHAT Intek engine we are talking about, model number. However, locate the "Kill" wire running to the engine and disconnect it. Where depends on what Intek. IF the engine keeps running now you know it is a safety switch. Smoke indicates deck bearing or drive system is locked up, maybe something jammed between belt and pulley, bearing froze in deck. Understand this happens with deck in disengaged position so check drive system for frozen idler, stick in pulley as said before.

Walt Conner
 

bertsmobile1

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Mower wiring 101
Cranking Circuit
Power usually goes from the hot side of the starter solenoid .
1) through a fuse
2) the the B ( = battery) terminal on the ignition switch ( tiny numbers under the switch )
3) to S (= Start) terminal on the switch
4) the the PTO switch or PTO safety switch on manual PTO's
5) to the brake safety switch
6) to the trigger wire on the solenoid.
This is a daisy chain so a break anywhere = no cranking
If the solenoid has only 1 small wire then the ground is via the case which will benefit from a clean where it contacts the body of the mower to get a good contact.

The ignition control can either be on the key switch
M + G = off
or on the throttle plate.
follow the thin wire from the coil
This is a ground wire.
Ground = off
Open circuit = on

Except on some ZTR's the seat switch is not in the cranking circuit.

Your problem is the ACR.
Your inlet valve should open just before TDC exhaust stroke then remain open all the way to BDC then close as the piston starts to rise.
Just before TDC the inlet should open a very small amount then close again .
Put your finger on the rocker or pushrod, you should feel them go tight then slack again as the ACR kicks in and drops out.

This is SOP for checking the cranking circuit
Before you start, pull the spark plug & try to rotate the engine by hand.
No use checking the electrics if you have a hydraulic lock, seized engine or jambed belt overloading the stater motor.
Assuming the engine turns freely.

I like to start from the starter motor and go backwards .
Do the following 5 tests, regardless of the results from an or all of them as there can be more than one problem and you want to isolate where the problem lies.
Elimination of individual parts is important so you know by the end, the battery, solenoid & heavy power circuits are all in good order.

1) try to jump the starter motor directly from your car or truck.
+ on the starter first then - to a good ground near the starter ( drain plug of lift hook are good )
Starter turns = starter good

2) do the same directly from the mowers battery
Starter turns = mower battery good
No turn = duff battery, recharge it & try again.

3) check for voltage ( + 12V ) at the solenoid trigger wire with the key in start position
3a) same with ground trigger wire ( 4 wire solenoid ) or body of solenoid ( 3 wire solenoid)
( I like to test V from the battery hot terminal to ground terminal rather than ohms as they give funny readings )

4) leave ground jumper in place ( from step 2 ) & try key start.
Starter turns = power connection good but ground connection suspect ( most common )
Confirm it by trying again, extra ground removed

5) Remove the trigger ( thin ) wire / wires from the solenoid.
Ground one on a 4 wire solenoid & bridge from the hot terminal to the other.
Starter cranks = solenoid good.
Solenoid is not polarity sensitive, BUT THE WIRING IS so make sure you remove the thin control wires.
Note a thinner wire on the hot terminal is not a control wire. It is the main power feed to the mower.


From here on things become very mower dependant as starting circuits are getting changed all the time.
Basically the power goes in a loop from the hot side of the solenoid ( saves wire, no other reason ) through the fuse to the B terminal on the key switch then to the PTO switch then to the parking brake switch then to the solenoid trigger switch , easy peasy after you grow the 3rd arm. Use a test lamp and follow the power.
However a lot of mowers with a 4 pole solenoid, run a secondary ground control circuit to the ground solenoid wire through the lap bars.
Then to stop this interfearing with the normal safety function of the ground kill, it goes to a relay with the ground as the switched connection.
These are a PIA as the + control wire to the relay comes from the power loop above and the ground side of the control comes via the normal cut out functions of the lap bars.
Be very careful because if you have a system like this and accidentally send 12V down the ground loop you can fry the magnetos on some circuits.nd from the grounding bolt to one of the starter mounting bolts & paint over both with liquid electrical tape.
 

backporch

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The mower is a DYT4000 Craftsman. Motor is 18.5 hp Intek Briggs and Stratton. 31P7770384E1.

I really think the PTO was the root cause of my issues. it was pretty hard to rotate until I backed off the adjustment nuts a little. That may have been my starting problem and I believe it is also the cause of the smoke. I don't think I burned a belt.

If the clutch engages, but the pulley that it activates is not able to spin, I imagine the clutch would wear. Still don't follow exactly how it works and if it is repairable or if any maintenance/troubleshooting can be done

I put 12v across the two wires and the electromagnet did click, so the most basics of the clutch is working. PTO is part number 180505
 

Fish

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No, don't mess up a good clutch. The clearances of the clutch, set them @ .015 with a feeler gauge.
 
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