GOODBYE TO ELECTRIC

aussielawny

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Neighbor kid came over and asked if he could borrow my Zero...... Never been on one.

His Moms back yard is 16" tall & tree branches all over...
l'm guessing you said no........l've been a lawn contractor for 35 yrs and learnt early on not to lend tools to anyone, regardless of their so called experience, been bitten once too often
 

7394

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l'm guessing you said no........l've been a lawn contractor for 35 yrs and learnt early on not to lend tools to anyone, regardless of their so called experience, been bitten once too often
Yep, I've learned that the hard way as well.. I said NO....
 

GrumpyCat

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I remember when a 3-1/2 HP B&S engine on a 22" lawnmower was the norm. Many had 3 HP and even 2-1/2 HP. Think my Grandfather's reel mower had a 1-1/2 HP with an oil bath air filter. And then those who Don't Know History rant about battery electric mowers being underpowered? There have been some marginally powered electric mowers but there are some very powerful electric mowers today.
 

Auto Doc's

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The more they try to push off this electric stuff, the farther we fall. All for what? A political banter about climate change and global warming.

The same BS about the ozone. Scientist have shot holes in all of their stories many times, but that gets buried by the political machine.

It comes down to money and special interests' groups that lobby congress. This whole thing is becoming a man-made global disaster. Battery waste is piling up and apparently no one had sense enough to factor that in.

Recyling plastics, aluminum and steel products has been practical for many years but not recycling lithium batteries due to expense and their highly toxic and deadly compounds.

I have rider mowers of my own that are still operational and made in the 80's through 2010. All they have needed is regular maintenance & upkeep along with non-Ethanol fuel. I keep solar (sunlight) battery maintainers on them, and they average about 5-7 years each.

Of course, I have also been a small engine mechanic as a sideline job since the 70's.

Electric mowers have no appeal to me; they are a fad that will soon pass (kind of like the hula hoop and the slinky) LOL.
 

GrumpyCat

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The more they try to push off this electric stuff, the farther we fall. All for what? A political banter about climate change and global warming.
You are so far behind the times. Don't believe everything you read, and don't read everything you believe.

My transition to an EV mower was accidental. Was given a 21" EGo SP to try in 2016. Weighed much less than the Snapper Ninja 21" SP, much quieter, and therefore much easier to mow my lawn. No more ear plugs. No more trips to the gas station with stinky gas can in the trunk.

This EGo is still in use, along with the original battery. The SP drive got wonky, a common problem with the early EGos. But SP is totally independent of the cutting blade (separate motors) so the mower still serves nicely.

My situation has changed in that I can no longer walk behind a mower. Have a 42" zero turn Country Clipper with 17 HP Kawasaki engine. No fun to fuel or change oil. If/when it wears out I'll see what is available in the battery electric market.
 

GearHead36

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The problem I have is with the mandates. I have battery hand tools. And a small battery chainsaw. Battery tools make sense in some cases. In others, it doesn't, and I resent the fact that someone is wanting to force me to go electric. I have a 54" commercial ZTR that I got for a great deal because it needed work. I got a $9500 mower for $2000. Are there deals like that for electric mowers? Not that I've seen. It takes about 1.5 hrs to mow my yard with that big mower. How many batteries would it take to mow that? I estimate that I'd need around $3000 just in batteries. My sister lives next door, and I sometimes mow her yard. Now we're looking at $6000 worth of batteries. If a battery mower works for you, and you like it, great. You keep on using it. But don't try to force one on me when it doesn't work for my situation.

If your goal in getting a battery mower is environmental, you should get a manual reel mower. Those are much more environmental friendly, and they improve your health by giving you a workout. They don't require gas or batteries with toxic materials.
 

GearHead36

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I remember when a 3-1/2 HP B&S engine on a 22" lawnmower was the norm. Many had 3 HP and even 2-1/2 HP. Think my Grandfather's reel mower had a 1-1/2 HP with an oil bath air filter. And then those who Don't Know History rant about battery electric mowers being underpowered? There have been some marginally powered electric mowers but there are some very powerful electric mowers today.
That was when the norm was side ejection. I currently have a simple push mower with a 125cc Briggs 450E engine. That probably has around 3.5 HP. It's side eject only. But most people want to be able to mulch and/or bag. For that, you need more power.

I DO agree that mowers have been getting more powerful, and I think that's a good thing. I have a Husqvarna CZ4817. It has a 17 HP engine, and a 48" deck. It struggles on hills with thick grass, and I have to slow to a crawl on those sections to keep it from bogging. I also have a newer mower with a 27 HP engine, and a 54" deck. If you do the math, that's 40% more power per inch of deck. It doesn't struggle anywhere. It mows through those hills with thick grass like a hot knife through butter. Do I think a battery mower could do that? Not on your life.

So just because mowers 30 yrs ago were only 3.5 HP doesn't mean that today's battery mowers are not underpowered. Those 3.5 HP mowers were underpowered too unless you only want to side eject.

Anyone who knows anything about lawn care knows that the quality of the cut is dependent on the sharpness of the blades, and the blade speed. Battery mowers play tricks with blade speed to extend battery life. They only run at full speed in thick grass. That means that everywhere else, you're not getting the best cut quality.
 

GrumpyCat

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The problem I have is with the mandates. I have battery hand tools. And a small battery chainsaw. Battery tools make sense in some cases. In others, it doesn't, and I resent the fact that someone is wanting to force me to go electric.
Who is forcing you to do something?
If you live in California then you asked for it and deserve it.

I have a 54" commercial ZTR that I got for a great deal because it needed work. I got a $9500 mower for $2000. Are there deals like that for electric mowers?
There are at least 10,000 ICE mowers out there for every electric so deals as you describe are more common. But also undermines your claim of ICE superiority by the fact someone is willing to unload what you claim to be easily fixable for so cheap.

I bought an additional EGo 21” SP about a year old, used less than once, with 10Ah battery, charger, bag, $100. Owner decided he didn’t need a push mower and wife ordered him to get rid of it before she gave it away. Then I gave my old EGo to a friend who has similar old model still in use.

It takes about 1.5 hrs to mow my yard with that big mower. How many batteries would it take to mow that? I estimate that I'd need around $3000 just in batteries.
I think it would take a million batteries!

The zero turn electrics all claim at least 2 hours of runtime.

52” EGo zero turn with (6) 12Ah batteries, $6000, 4 hours per charge.

My sister lives next door, and I sometimes mow her yard. Now we're looking at $6000 worth of batteries. If a battery mower works for you, and you like it, great. You keep on using it. But don't try to force one on me when it doesn't work for my situation.
At least a million dollars of batteries! If making wild-assed guesses I can do that too.

Once again, who is forcing you?

If your goal in getting a battery mower is environmental, you should get a manual reel mower.
That is your belief carefully selected to support your preconceived notions.

Those are much more environmental friendly, and they improve your health by giving you a workout. They don't require gas or batteries with toxic materials.
I didn’t know any of that!

I kept mine because it is lighter, quieter, and very easy to keep fueled. Same reasons behind battery electric string trimmers, drills, and impact drivers. Have you noticed how mechanics rarely turn screws or bolts by hand in favor of a battery powered driver?
 

GrumpyCat

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So just because mowers 30 yrs ago were only 3.5 HP doesn't mean that today's battery mowers are not underpowered. Those 3.5 HP mowers were underpowered too unless you only want to side eject.
Apparently that went over your head. Somehow 50 years ago 3.5hp was thought to be sufficient and somehow it worked.

You are 10 years behind in your claims of low powered battery mowers.
 

GearHead36

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Who is forcing you to do something?
If you live in California then you asked for it and deserve it.
I don't live in CA, but up until the last presidential election, the government was pushing the green agenda, led by CA. Even outside CA, EV's have government subsidies. Have you been to a Lowe's or Home Depot lately? There are way more battery mowers on the floor than ICE models. The government IS pushing this. Mandates is what's at the end of the path they're on. And what CA does often trickles to the rest of the country eventually. No, I'm not being forced to go battery powered yet, but the Democrats were clearly moving in that direction.

There are at least 10,000 ICE mowers out there for every electric so deals as you describe are more common. But also undermines your claim of ICE superiority by the fact someone is willing to unload what you claim to be easily fixable for so cheap.
I never said it was easy or cheap to repair. But it IS possible to get such a deal since: there are a lot of used ICE mowers out there, many have not been properly maintained, ICE engines, once repaired, retain their power levels and run times, and parts are still available. It was a commercial mower that had been ridden hard, and put away wet. It was a business asset that was sold and written off as a business expense. I SERIOUSLY doubt that any battery powered mowers on the market would have stood up as long as this one did. The parts of it that were broken make me think that it had been used like a bush hog. Every so often, I'll watch a review of a battery mower. They tend to be designed for light duty so they can be light. If you need more than a light duty mower, battery mowers are probably not for you. If you just need to mow 400 sq ft of lawn, then sure, a battery mower will work.

52” EGo zero turn with (6) 12Ah batteries, $6000, 4 hours per charge.
I hate to break it to you, but a 52" residential mower will not keep up with a 54" commercial mower. So I'll estimate that my yard would take 2hrs with that mower. 4hrs for both yards I mentioned. I checked that link. And then went to the EGo store to check battery prices. The 12Ah batteries are $500 ea. That $6000 mower has $3000 worth of batteries. So it's a $3000 mower with a $3000 fuel tank. So to do the 2 yards I mentioned, I'd need $3000 worth of batteries. Unless I wanted the batteries to last more than 3 yrs. If these batteries are run to empty every time, they will degrade much faster. It's better to have more capacity than needed. So if you need to mow for an hour, get 2 hrs of capacity, and run the batteries down to no lower than 50% every time. The batteries will last more than twice as long. Now I'm back to needing $6000 worth of batteries for my situation.

I kept mine because it is lighter, quieter, and very easy to keep fueled. Same reasons behind battery electric string trimmers, drills, and impact drivers. Have you noticed how mechanics rarely turn screws or bolts by hand in favor of a battery powered driver?
I'll agree that battery tools are quieter. Not sure about weight. I DO know that EV's weigh way more than their ICE counterparts. A Tesla Model 3 weighs more than an F150. My commercial mower is not designed for light weight. It's made with heavy gauge steel, and is designed to be used hard. Makes me wonder how the previous owner managed to abuse it so badly. As for battery hand tools, you must have missed that I have those. I admitted that battery powered tools make sense in some cases, but not in every case as the battery evangelists would have you believe.

One of the main differences between power hand tools and mowers is duty cycle. Duty cycle is the time on divided by the complete time duration. So if, when a tool is being used, it runs for 30 minutes every hour, that's 50% duty cycle. Hand power tools tend to get used at low duty cycles. I'd say that over the span of a work day, a hand tool gets 15 minutes of actual run time. I have a battery powered chainsaw (gas ones too). I've probably never used it for more than 5 minutes of actual run time in a day. A mower, however, gets used at 100% duty cycle. Once you engage the blades, it needs to put out power for 100% of the duration of the job. The problem, at least, for mowers (EV's too), is energy requirements. A tank of gasoline contains a HUGE amount of energy. It takes a LOT of batteries to match the energy content of a tank of gas.

Hopefully, they will continue to improve. I actually WANT them to improve. I'm an electrical engineer. I understand the advantages of electric motors and ICE's. Like I mentioned before, sometimes one is better than the other. If I want to go to the junk yard, and pull parts off vehicles, and I need a power tool, battery powered is the only option. I was at a Discount Tire recently, and they've gone to battery impact wrenches. If I want to mow an acre of grass, I want gas power. Battery powered mowers will eventually catch up, but they're not there yet, and I resent them being pushed on the market by the government. Let market forces decide which is best, like with battery hand tools.
 
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