Great ethanol warning

[Skyharbor106]

I guess this is the best place for this. If not, feel free to move it where it should be.

I have had a few discussions with people recently about ethanol. A couple of the guys I talked with flat out disputed that ethanol causes any problems in internal combustion engines. It just so happens that both of them are farmers that grow corn. Strange, isn't it? LOL! After what my own automotive mechanic has told me and what I have seen inside carbs on small engines that have sat for extended periods with an ethanol blend in them, I'm pretty sure ethanol isn't really good for ANY internal combustion engine. I'm doubly sure it's not good for small engines that sit in the shed for 6 months at a time. That's especially true for any engine that the owner does nothing to prepare the equipment for winter storage. Anyway, I found the screenshot below while searching for additional info on ethanol blended gas. I think it explains the harm that blended gas can cause in a really simplified, yet informative, manner. I intend to print this on an 8"x11" sheet of card stock, stuff it inside a clear, protective sleeve, and then staple it to one of the walls in my garage. I do have a couple of plastic gas caps with symbols indicating that ONLY 5% or 10% ethanol blend is acceptable and also shows that 15% is NOT acceptable.

I did get some good news regarding gasoline available in my area. I thought there was no place in town to buy straight unleaded. My dentist actually told me about a place that offers pure unleaded. He has refused to put blended gas in any of his vehicles or in any of his OPE. One of the two truck stops we have in town has one, single pump that is for straight unleaded. It costs an extra 10 cents a gallon, give or take, but with gas at $3.25 to $3.50, what difference does a dime a gallon make? LOL! I'll be buying 100% of my gas from there effective immediately. I'm going to be REAL curious to see what happens to my mileage. I keep great records of every fill up in the car, so should be able to detect any change in mileage. We'll see.

Oh, and the second point in the screenshot is exactly why I run a can of Seafoam though my car pretty regularly. I know there are other products that will do the same thing, or even better, but since I use Seafoam for so many other things that's what I stick in the car. I was just told recently that the best thing to use for small amounts of water in a vehicle's gas tank is isopropyl alcohol sold at parts stores. I've never tried it, but might get a little to keep on hand. I haven't yet researched it, but I'm wondering what the difference is between the isopropyl alcohol sold at parts stores and isopropyl alcohol sold at pharmacies or even Walmart. Is it the same thing?

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When I was a kid in New Jersey my supermarket sold cans of Dry Gas that we put in our gas tanks in winter. I don't see this anymore. Didn't it absorb water in gas tanks?

 

[Smithsonite]

I used to use Christy Drygas for passing emissions in my '85 Monte Carlo. Worked like a charm every time! Putting that in today's fuel is asking for trouble - probably why you don't see it anymore. Fuel already has enough alcohol in it as it is. Drygas was isopropyl alcohol, mainly, and alcohol loves water - that's how it removed it.



I made a PILE of money over the years thanks to ethanol. When I was doing mainly small engines, 95% of my day was cleaning carburetors. The crap has no business in fuel. Just like any problem in society today, it can be traced DIRECTLY back to our lovely government.

If you have good luck with E10, that just means you store the fuel air tight at all times, and use your equipment regularly. Let E10 sit through the summer months and watch how fast you have problems.

I have fuel barrels of both E10 and E0. E0 goes in all my 2-stroke stuff, except for my '74 RD350, only because it's impractical. Can't find E0 gas around here (MA) - it's NOT sold at the pump ANYWHERE outside of airports (100LL) or marinas on the coast for BIG money. I have to take my barrel a couple hours north or west to get it.

My paramotor runs on nothing but E0. When I first got it, before I even got a chance to fly it, my carburetor clogged up! That was the end of that! And that was mixed with Amsoil Saber, which contains a fuel stabilizer.

EDITED to clarify ... I ran E10 in when I first got it, before I flew it.

 

[slomo]

Just say NO to E-10.

 

[cpainter]

All I can go by is my own experience with ethanol vs non-ethanol fuel. In the mid 2000's I worked as an engineering consultant in Tulsa, Oklahoma while living in central Texas. I could buy non-ethanol fuel in Oklahoma, but not in Texas. I hand calculated fuel mileage on every tank in the 2001 Jeep Cherokee I used at that time. On average, my fuel economy was 10% better on the non-ethanol gas I bought in Oklahoma. In the same timeframe, I was regularly rebuilding, cleaning, or replacing carburetors on my chainsaws, generators, 4-wheelers, and my Yamaha Rhino 660. Eventually the Murphy station at the Walmart in Brownwood, TX started offering non-ethanol fuel and I was able to stock up on it on my occasional trips there. Since then, I have had no more carburetor problems in any of those machines. Maybe it's a coincidence or maybe it's due to the quality of the gasoline in each fuel, but I plan to stick with what has worked for me. We live in a pretty remote area and need various machines to take care of things around here. It's just frustrating that it's so difficult to store gas for any length of time and expect it to run without problems in our machines. Lately, I've leaned towards using diesel machines whenever it's an option, since diesel can be stored for a much longer time.

 

[smhardesty]

Non-ethanol fuel will leave the same gum behind in the carb that E-10 will. The gum that is left behind is the non-volatile additives that are put into the gas, such as cleaners and antiknock compounds. When you have a lawnmower with a tank full of gas, and no shutoff valve, as the gas evaporates from the carb, it is replenished with more fuel from the tank until all of the gas is gone, and you have a carb full of gum. Old timers, such as myself, have been having this problem forever, long before they put ethanol in gas. If a mower comes into my shop without a fuel shutoff, I install one and then instruct the customer on its use.

I agree that both fuel types will leave gum/varnish type deposits if the equipment is left sitting for long periods without running. The big difference I see is that on top of the gum/varnish, ethanol fuels will also cause rust to form on metal surfaces, especially any steel/iron type pieces like the pin on a float. The tiller that was my dad's that I left sit for way to long was a complete disaster when I pulled the carb. Rust was everywhere inside that carb. No amount of soaking would have ever removed it.

Knowing that ethanol will carry moisture and also attract moisture out of the air, I'll be advising all my customers to buy ethanol free fuel at the local station that has it. I don't expect a lot of them to follow my advice since the pure unleaded does cost about 50 cents a gallon more. I really only expect customers with high dollar equipment to even consider buying the higher priced fuel and only some of them will actually do it.

As for me, nothing but ethanol free in my OPE and my car. The only time I'd not have pure unleaded in the car will be when we take a longer trip. The range on a tank of fuel in the car is enough to allow me to not have to buy ethanol blended fuel very often. I'm on the second tank in the car now and I have seen no difference in performance and I might be getting one mpg more, but it's way too early to state that as a fact. I need to see what it does over a long period of time and under all sorts of driving before I make a claim of increased fuel economy.
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[Smithsonite]

All I can go by is my own experience with ethanol vs non-ethanol fuel. In the mid 2000's I worked as an engineering consultant in Tulsa, Oklahoma while living in central Texas. I could buy non-ethanol fuel in Oklahoma, but not in Texas. I hand calculated fuel mileage on every tank in the 2001 Jeep Cherokee I used at that time. On average, my fuel economy was 10% better on the non-ethanol gas I bought in Oklahoma. In the same timeframe, I was regularly rebuilding, cleaning, or replacing carburetors on my chainsaws, generators, 4-wheelers, and my Yamaha Rhino 660. Eventually the Murphy station at the Walmart in Brownwood, TX started offering non-ethanol fuel and I was able to stock up on it on my occasional trips there. Since then, I have had no more carburetor problems in any of those machines. Maybe it's a coincidence or maybe it's due to the quality of the gasoline in each fuel, but I plan to stick with what has worked for me. We live in a pretty remote area and need various machines to take care of things around here. It's just frustrating that it's so difficult to store gas for any length of time and expect it to run without problems in our machines. Lately, I've leaned towards using diesel machines whenever it's an option, since diesel can be stored for a much longer time.

If you keep a barrel air tight, you can keep even E10 usable for a year or more. I wouldn't use 87 octane in something you cared about after that length of time, but it's possible. I've done it. E0 I'd wager would last 3 or more years in the same conditions. It's cold quite a bit up here in MA, so that may have something to do with it, but we've got some pretty crappy pump gas here.

I've got an '07 Silverado 1500 4x4 - has the LMG 5.3 flex-fuel engine. Whenever I fill up with E0, I get a noticeable power increase, and my mileage goes WAY up. Last run I made up to ME with my flatbed trailer to grab a car, I got 13.5 MPG coming home loaded after filling up with E0, and that was doing 75-80 the whole way back. I normally get 13.5 just driving around town here! HUGE increase in efficiency.

I always let my friends and neighbors know when I'm heading up north - I'll bring their gas cans up to grab E0. Stuff is like gold around here.

 

[smhardesty]

Really, what do you pump into your car?

I realize your comment was aimed at hollydolly, but I'll reply anyway. I am now running only ethanol free in my car. I'm not sure what your question meant. Are you saying that you can't pump it onto a car for some reason? Could would clarify that question for me? I'm trying to understand what you were getting at.
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[Smithsonite]

where to buy 100% gas in your area.

Pure-gas.org - ethanol-free gasoline in the U.S. and Canada

Pure-gas.org is the definitive web site listing stations that sell pure gasoline in the U.S. and Canada.

www.pure-gas.org

Keep in mind, here in MA, anything listed on that site is an OPE dealer, powersports dealer, airport, hardware store, or canned fuel sold in the gas station store. Not a drop of E0 is available at ANY pump here in MA. It's all by the can - quarts, gallons, or 5 gallon jugs at $25+ per gallon.

The state is petrified of losing fuel tax revenue, so it's forbidden.

 

[cpainter]

I've got an '07 Silverado 1500 4x4 - has the LMG 5.3 flex-fuel engine. Whenever I fill up with E0, I get a noticeable power increase, and my mileage goes WAY up.

I think I felt a significant power increase with the E0 too, but I didn't mention it since I wasn't able to back that up or quantify it factually.

 

[smhardesty]

Carb removed from a 5hp Briggs on a generator on a camper trailer. Generator was rarely used. This is what ethanol will do.

And I have seen MUCH worse in the carbs off engines that have sat for long periods. My own tiller was one of them. I have no one to blame for what I found but myself. I left it with a half full tank of gas, no fuel shutoff, and the fuel was E15. What I found was a rusted mess. Yep, I did it and I paid the price to fix it. Lesson learned. I'm just thankful I use Seafoam in all of my OPE that I use regularly and have for years. My dad didn't and the tiller was a great learning experience. Costly, but a lesson learned, for sure.
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