Is the Kohler Courage really that bad?

[Scrubcadet10]

I do find it a bit amusing how some people can get their feathers ruffled over a 20 hp engine. Of course a company is going to have trouble with a product along the line, it's almost inevitable.
Briggs has/had the cam wiping issues in the intek, Kawasaki had issues with the plastic cam gear grenading. Boo Hoo if you got a bad Courage, It happens.

 

[logert gogert]

I check the top cover bolts with a wrench once a month, and that's when I clean the cooling fins, 5 minutes can save tons of headaches. It also gives me something to do
While the oil is draining.

you change the oil every month?

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I always love a conspiracy theory being tossed in because some do not take some ones line of arguement hook line & sinker.
So yes there were some problems with the engine but Kohler made the effort to rectify them for a very long time after normal warranty had run out.
I believe it was 4 years in the USA
Add to that it was a random fault .
I have better than 50 Husqvarna mowers in my service run all fitted with Courages .
Now I have a sneaky that these were dumped down into Aus the same way Husqvarna dumped all the pro-Riders that flipped because they were sold here at a big discount.
Of those 50 or so 2 developed the Kohler crack and probably 5 or 6 had loose bolts when they came in for service which as with Nicky 1 said a couple of drops of blue loctite and problem was solved.
Six of them are used commercially and all of those now have between 1000 & 2000 hours on them with no problems other than the hydros getting very tired ( got one in for repair right now ) .
Yet to see one with a tossed counter weight, a system that has been in use on single cylinders for near 100 years , so no Briggs did not invent it so no Kohler did not steal it from them .
I am sorry that you obviously had problems with your Courage but your rantings are some what out of place.
See I am not Joe Average I am Berts Mobile Mower Repairs and started my professional career as a a Foundry Metallurgist so unlike Joe IGNORANT I do know a thing or two about castings.
And there is nothing wrong with the casting it is an excellent design , in fact the entire engine is an excellent design as I do not get burned 20 times a day from hot oil gushing from an oil filter mounted horizontally in an inaccessable place that has to be removed by hand .
The top closure plate means I can fix Joe Not Too Cheap's mower for $ 120 less than the equivalent Briggs because it can stay in the mower for a decompressor change and I certainly can not do that with the 6 ( on average ) 31 series Briggs cams I fit every year ( when Briggs finally decides to supply them ) and 2 to 3 4000 series cams that seem to wear round
A blower housing that comes off with 4 x 6mm bolts all pointing directly upward so you do not have to remove the fuel tank in order to remove the blower housing to CLEAN THE ENGINE EVERY SEASON which if Joe Average actually did, then chances are he would have noticed the loose bolts, that is of course assuming he was not on his 10 Bud while doing it . A painful job to do on any B & S engine requiring a 3/8 spannar , because you can not get a socket or gear wrench onto the rear bolts then either a 3/8 or T40 for the fronts,that is of course if the casting has not broken away and some time an additional 5/16 + phillips if he blower housing is under a bigger blower housing so the SV engine can pretend to look like an OHV engine and of course the 1/4" to remove the fuel pump.
That is not good design , it is minimum fastener price design to make the engine as cheap as humanly possible and a PIA for Joe Average to service.
The Kohler top cover comes of again with easy to access bolts all the same size & T 27 to slip the throttle control off .

Having had a very close examination of the entire casting, before welding the cracks and being, an experienced non-ferrous foundry person I would guess and it is just a guess that the engine was originally designed to use the same forged crankshaft as is fitted to the command .
This would be sound engineering practice as a forged crankshaft is around1/3 the cost of the entire engine so using the same one would have brought in big economies of scale.
However some one decided to fit a cheaper malleable cast iron crankshaft which has to be substantially thicker than the equivalent strength forged one but only 1/2 the price.
This would have thrown the vibration dynamics for the engine way out , thus the loosening front bolts and of course gobbled up a lot of the potential power from the engine .

The Courage engines are still being made in Kohlers Chinese factory and we get lots of cheap chinese Husqvarna knock offs fitted with 21 Hp courage singles that run like a dream.
I have about a dozen of them in the service run and they are actually a cut above the USA made ones.
Don't know if the crank is cast or forged because I am yet to pull a top cover off any of them , but the engine does run smoother and seems to respond to the governor much faster.

And by the way using synthetic oil in an engine not designed to run synthetic oil can destroy the engine in no time flat particularly if it is a lighter grade because the synthetics flow smoother so they don't hold critical oil pressure when uses in engines that have pressure fed cranks designed to run on the heavier mono grade or standard multi grades oils . Synthetics also splash quite differently so can be a problem getting to little ends on vertical shaft engines and they tend to drain faster from the top bearing oil dam on full splash engine making them more prone to siezing when being driven on slopes.
And this is an OBSERVED FACT coming from diagnosing destroyed engine running on full synthetic oil, cause Joe Average thinks he knows more about oil than the engineers who designed the engine .

And NO I AM NOT A KOHLER STOOGE, I am a certified kohler technicain ( via the on line course only ) but do not have any affiliation with Kohler as they demanded I keep a $ 30,000 Kohler inventory in order to open an account which I have no intention of doing.
Which is anything makes me alitle pisse at Kohler for making me wste several hour of my time siting their on line exam .
And I definately am not a paid "Reputation Defender" I am a plain speaking Aussie
And to me you just seem like a person which a very bad case of Schit on the Liver desperate to vent their spleen at every oppertunity.
And if you were really mowing in open toed shoes then an idiot to boot .
Exactly how boiling hot oil would manage to escape from the crankcase magically bypass the dash turret then deep fry you feet is again beyond my imagination as if the counterweight let go it would be near impossible for it to go through the side of the engine unless some one had been tampering with the governor & had the engine reving way over the 5000 rpm safe limit.

Using synthetic oil can destroy an engine? What are you smoking? When you say this is an observed fact you fell back in it. No my friend synthetic oil will not destroy your engine. Of course everyone should go by the mfg's recommendations regarding viscosity etc but synthetic oil is superior to conventional motor oil in every way. You'll never sell that one.

Name calling is not a productive discussion.It's a sure sign you've lost an argument. So let's please dispense with the name calling.

Below are a couple of pics of my grenaded block. The one with the yellow oil filter shows the thickness of the block casting. Look at it and tell me there's nothing wrong with that paper thin aluminum block casting. Anyone and that means even an average person can see how thin that is.

You see this is not about who you are, it's not about who I am or my qualifications or even a lack of them for either of us, that makes no difference, this is about the Kohler Courage 20HP single cylinder engines that were flawed. I have one and below are the pics. Enjoy.

 

[ILENGINE]

I do find it a bit amusing how some people can get their feathers ruffled over a 20 hp engine. Of course a company is going to have trouble with a product along the line, it's almost inevitable.
Briggs has/had the cam wiping issues in the intek, Kawasaki had issues with the plastic cam gear grenading. Boo Hoo if you got a bad Courage, It happens.

I personally had 7 Kawasaki twins come in the shop this summer with the number 1 rod broke. How many other people have broken number 1 rods on Kawasaki twins this year and the previous years.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

I do find it a bit amusing how some people can get their feathers ruffled over a 20 hp engine. Of course a company is going to have trouble with a product along the line, it's almost inevitable.
Briggs has/had the cam wiping issues in the intek, Kawasaki had issues with the plastic cam gear grenading. Boo Hoo if you got a bad Courage, It happens.

I think you've missed the point. The flaw is dangerous. I wouldn't care if it had stripped the plastic cam gears, Older Kawasaki engines do that all the time. I wouldn't care if it started using oil and smoking shortly after the warranty expired. Anything to do with normal wear and tear would have been acceptable and repairable. Kohler should have recalled all those engines but instead they left them in service knowing full well the counter balance system was flawed and the blocks were thin. This one had 272 hours of easy well maintained use.

 

[ILENGINE]

Earning that Kohler pay are we? Well in fact everything I said above is well documented. The Kohler company even extended engine warranty to 5 years from 2 and they also had a special program for customers who had engines that grenaded in such a matter to send them a brand new short block. So facts are facts and slinging mud is a dirty business. But by all means don't take my word on it, verify......you have the internet I'll bet you have Google do yourself a favor and get educated. Of course you likely already are and are just attempting to spin this post in your direction. Guess what it didn't work. The Kohler Courage single cylinder engine has a proven and documented design flaw, Kohler extended warranties and offered replacement short blocks for a reason......They don't give stuff away without cause and without reason. You can't spin the facts and facts are exactly what I posted. Next.

I am just a Kohler dealer and don't have any more skin in the game than Bert does. And your well documented failure was a few hundred engines out of a production runs of several million. so the percentage of failure even with the problems was not that wide spread. And if it was such a failed engine design why are they still using it. Now with a dual conterbalance gear system and a single cam The basic bucket style engine is still there.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

you change the oil every month?

No, i just pull the blower housing off once a month to clean and check bolts etc.
oil gets changed start of the season. Usually change it in the middle of the season if it's a hot, dusty year.

 

[StarTech]

To me it is a mechanical engine quite varying parts tolerances. Many engines are fine and then sometimes all out of torenance comes together in one engine. Plus operators dont pay attention to a developing problem. I just recently repaired a Briggs 310000 series engine that had been sitting unused and the owner brought it in running so no being ran without oil. Well I replaced the failed camshaft. Customer picks it back up and goes around yard a few times when the engine quits. I go out to pickup the mower and find the engine crankcase badly shattered where the counter balance links broke and went the crankcase. Absolutely nothing could be done for the engine except to replace it at cost.

I got another that just running his badly smoking engine until it too failed a horrible death.

Please when an engine giving problem don't keep running until it explodes; have it checked out.

 

[Scrubcadet10]

Chris, Have you heard of the courage problem before hand?
in regards to a "paper thin" block, that''s about the same size thickness i've seen for around 20 HP engines, Kohler or not.
I'm not sure how this engine is 'dangerous' as any engine can punch through the block when it throws a rod, and any engine can throw a rod, whether it be low oil, no oil, or old age/wear. You've got a chunk of forged steel and aluminum rotating at 3200,3600 RPM, of course crap's gonna break when something lets go...

 

[Rivets]

Chris, I’m glad to see that you believe the adage “If it’s on the Internet, it must be true”. You can believe what you want and you can post your beliefs, but IL, Bert, Scrub and I have been working in this industry far longer than you and we don’t use the Internet to get our facts. We base our opinions on actual dirt under the fingernails experience. Each person using this forum will make their own decisions based on who they think is more credible. My questions to you is “What is you background which makes you the expert on Courage engines? How many Courage engines have your worked on? Is your opinion based on factional or fictional experience?” Maybe it’s you who is the PAID REPUTATION DEFENDER for one of the clone engine manufacturers? I’ll be waiting to see how you defend your rant, but if you can’t we’ll know who’s buttering your bread.