Not such a great start --

[bertsmobile1]

The engine manufacturers have known how to build good engines for a long time.

What they don't know how to do is build those good engines for less and less money, and that's where the pressure is these days--cutting costs.

Yes,
There is no one to blame but yourself and the 1,000,000 others who reward mower companies that fit poor quality engines by continually buying them.
For a decade or more Honda made the best quality mower engine ( Onan was better ) but so few people paid the extra $ 300 for the Honda engine the mower companies dropped them.
This told the mower companies that the buying public do not want a top quality mower that will last a long time, they just want a cheap one and the best one is the cheapest one.
All the companies that made top shelf quality domestic mowers went bankrupt because the bulk of the buying public will only pay for cheap & the cheaper the better.
Thus you have a choice of cheap and nasty or nasty & cheap till you get to the commercial level mowers, where quality & longevity is more important selling factors than the number on the price tag.

 

[bullrider]

If it's that important to not buy 'cheap foreign' then an option is to buy an older American product and have it refurbished. My 1972 Wheel Horse needs work and I could probably have had it brought up to snuff for less I paid for my new Cub, but the Cub DOES have three years warranty coverage on the engine and five on most of the rest... and if the engine lasts three years it will last 20. I wanted a newer mower that turns tighter and is more comfortable and does NOT have the carburetor issues of the old ones. Looking at my old Wheel Horse with the hydraulic accessory / mower deck lift and how everything on it is made of heavy steel I know the new Cub is not that level of mower. But I have barely half an acre - I don't need industrial strength.

Remember when they said about cars 'they don't make them like they used to'? Now we are thankful they don't. Cars used to rust through in the first few years, drive lines lasted 100,000 miles if you were very lucky before something needed major repairs, they went through exhaust systems (every two years), shock absorbers (every 20K miles), spark plugs (every 10K miles or less), needed oil changes every 3000 miles, and when it was below zero out you had a 50% chance that the car would start. And I wonder how many of our new cars have key parts made in China and we don't even know about it.

Not that I'm a big fan of China but just facing the situation as it exists.

 

[bullrider]

Wow. It sounds like it may have been a lemon engine. My Cub Cadet is a year old and I hope that never happens to me. I really don't use it much for mowing though. More for general yard stuff.

Cub Cadet has been using this engine for at least two years in their higher priced version of my tractor. I doubt they'd have expanded the use of it to more models if it had any serious issues.
As for why mine blew up at 2.4 hours, who knows? Maybe the person who was supposed to inspect the rod bearing cap for cracks lost his place when he left to go on break and it got past the inspection with a flaw. What surprises me is that I think I heard the sound from very early on, perhaps from the start... if they had run the engine I can't understand how they'd have not heard the noise it was making. I have to admit it was concerning me. If it was going to blow I'm glad it did it quickly so I can get a new engine and get past this and move on.

The new engine arrived at the Cub dealer last Friday and I'm hoping the tractor will be ready to bring home by the weekend. It took them only five days to pull the blown motor, tear it down, get the info to CC and receive a brand new replacement engine so hopefully this will will let them get it installed.

 

[bertsmobile1]

If it's that important to not buy 'cheap foreign' then an option is to buy an older American product and have it refurbished. My 1972 Wheel Horse needs work and I could probably have had it brought up to snuff for less I paid for my new Cub, but the Cub DOES have three years warranty coverage on the engine and five on most of the rest... and if the engine lasts three years it will last 20. I wanted a newer mower that turns tighter and is more comfortable and does NOT have the carburetor issues of the old ones. Looking at my old Wheel Horse with the hydraulic accessory / mower deck lift and how everything on it is made of heavy steel I know the new Cub is not that level of mower. But I have barely half an acre - I don't need industrial strength.

Remember when they said about cars 'they don't make them like they used to'? Now we are thankful they don't. Cars used to rust through in the first few years, drive lines lasted 100,000 miles if you were very lucky before something needed major repairs, they went through exhaust systems (every two years), shock absorbers (every 20K miles), spark plugs (every 10K miles or less), needed oil changes every 3000 miles, and when it was below zero out you had a 50% chance that the car would start. And I wonder how many of our new cars have key parts made in China and we don't even know about it.

Not that I'm a big fan of China but just facing the situation as it exists.

And Ford applied for a chapter 27 ? bankruptcy back in the GFC which was the 3rd time it shafted it's suppliers.
GM was also broke but they managed to flog off some of the European models & factories to remain solvent & the Obama Government rewarded them with a massive "loan" to build their new foundry in Michigan.

While cars have gotten more reliable, they have also reduced their service life drastically.
Very few will go 20 years and most will be obsoleted in 10 when critical components will no longer be available.
I had to dump a perfectly good 1994 van because the throttle valve is NLA similar with a 2005 van because the computer cable connector is NLA.
Being a commonwealth country we got the junk the Pommies made foisted upon us for decades till the late 90's when import quotas were abolished.
The locally made cars ( scaled down versions of USA models then had to compete with European vehicles and their quality went forward leaps & bounds.
By the 70's they were all fully dipped.

I rather think the lack of quality in US vehicles had more to do with the protection of the market than anything else.
When Yamaha brought out the SR 500 followe by the V twin based on it, Harley lost their exemption for Californian EPA requirements as Yamaha showed they could be exceeded .
So HD had a big shake up and went from a cheaply made local embarassment to a modern motorcycle at a substantially higher price

 

[bullrider]

While cars have gotten more reliable, they have also reduced their service life drastically.
Very few will go 20 years and most will be obsoleted in 10 when critical components will no longer be available.
I had to dump a perfectly good 1994 van because the throttle valve is NLA similar with a 2005 van because the computer cable connector is NLA.
Being a commonwealth country we got the junk the Pommies made foisted upon us for decades till the late 90's when import quotas were abolished.
The locally made cars ( scaled down versions of USA models then had to compete with European vehicles and their quality went forward leaps & bounds.
By the 70's they were all fully dipped.

I rather think the lack of quality in US vehicles had more to do with the protection of the market than anything else.
When Yamaha brought out the SR 500 followe by the V twin based on it, Harley lost their exemption for Californian EPA requirements as Yamaha showed they could be exceeded .
So HD had a big shake up and went from a cheaply made local embarassment to a modern motorcycle at a substantially higher price

I have to disagree about service life. A vehicle with 100,000 miles on it used to be a real achievement. One with 200,000 had at least one overhaul and you heard about it in a letter from your great Aunt in Nebraska whose neighbor was trying to sell it. My first car was a 1965 Mercury which was seven years old and I bought it in 1972 (for $210, amazing). It had 78,000 miles on it. It already had rusted through in both rear fenders. My 2001 Dodge Dakota is approaching 18 years old and is finally starting to rust (in places where pickups tend to, for the most part). It runs great and I plan to keep it for the foreseeable future.

It's very common to find people selling cars with well over 100,000 miles on them. My sister in law drives a Dodge Charger with 245,000 miles on it. It's getting tired out but fortuantely she's got a lifetime powertrain warranty on it. And trucks? People are selling pickups and large SUV's with 200,000 miles on them and not at giveaway prices.

So I definitely disagree about service life. (BTW I own a 2005 Lexus with 165,000 miles on it and it feels and runs like new.) Cars in the old days at half a dozen years started becoming clunkers and beaters. Not anymore.

Re NLA parts, at least in the US car makers have to provide repair parts for a certain number of years, longer periods for parts that are necessary to run or meet emissions or safety, but nobody as a matter of SOP stocks parts for 20 year old vehicles. That's why there is an aftermarket, Ebay, and junkyards.

I have no doubt that foreign competition forced the US automakers to greatly up their game and I'm glad that happened. Honestly, they have done a great job of making a better, more reliable and longer lasting product than when they had the market sewn up.

 

[cpurvis]

You haven't been paying attention to prices.

In 1994, I paid $2400 for a 2140 Cub Cadet. 14 hp, 42" stamped deck.

In 1998, I bought a Ford pickup for $18,000.

Since then, what has happened to the prices of each? I can buy a new Cub Cadet with more horsepower and bigger deck for less money today. Have the prices of vehicles decreased similarly?

 

[bullrider]

No, vehicle prices haven't decreased. But there's basically very little different when you get down to it between a 20 year old Cub Cadet and a new one (other than parts sourcing). Vehicles have changed every year, they have tighter emission standards that have to be met and safety standards, plus the cost of certifying compliance. A whole new engine computer or maybe even engine design is sometimes needed to meet standards. All of this costs a lot more than new decals for a hood on a Cub Cadet to differentiate between models.

The newer vehicles DO get better mileage and run cleaner because of all that expense so there is some benefit. But I have to agree that the prices have gone astronomical. In 1979 I bought a brand new SUV (Dodge's version of the Chevy Blazer). It stickered for about $11,000 with a lot of options. But it ran like crap (until I un-did a bit of the pollution equipment) and got terrible gas mileage. Now that same basic type of vehicle would cost no less than 3x as much. Adjusted for inflation, maybe 1.5 or 1.75 times as much - but would run much better, have more power, get about 2x the fuel mileage (literally), plus have more equipment for both safety and convenience.

Inflation has to always be figured into the cost comparisons, and really there is a huge difference between the cost of bringing out new model cars/trucks every year compared to something much more static like a lawn tractor.

My new EFI Cub Cadet isn't all that complicated but it does add to the cost of the tractor. That EFI system is very simple compared to what is on a car.

I'm sure we agree on many things in principle, but look at them from different perspectives. I had to have an engine computer replaced in my 2001 truck last summer. Of course those are no longer available from the mfr. The dealer had to locate one that was used but had been tested. I can't really expect anyone to sit on a supply of NOS parts for vehicles that are getting too old to be worth fixing.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Well I have an 84 L300 with just under 900,000 km on the dial and a 2001 model with 475,000 km.
But these were left overs from a transport company so were doing 500 km a day 5 day a week.

The life of the engines have not gotten any longer .
The scheduled maintenance intervals is what has drastically increased. As has the cost of rebuilding an engine, if they actually can be rebuilt as a lot of the all alloy engines warp when the heads are removed so they are effectively throw away engines.
The VW van I had in my college days did well over 2,000,000 km but in that time had quite a few rebuilds, usually about every second or third year.
Back in the 60's, Saturday morning was always car servicing day, now days it is twice a year not once a week.

As for prices, forget the numbers of $ they are meaningless.
You bought the vehicle with hours of labour, the same thing that you bought your mower with .
The money was just a medium of exchange acceptable to both parties.
So when you look at what cars really cost, my first 2nd hand one cost 1/2 year of wages and a new one was about 1.5 years.
Now days a new car is about 1/3 of a years wages. And I am not talking about what I was earning I am talking national average male incomes including overtime & holidays.

Using those figures evens out different values of currencies and different rates of pay.

So yes cars are a lot lot lot cheaper now that they were 20 years ago.

Same for mowers.
my fathers first petrol mower cost him 3 months wages, for a 2 stroke push mower with an 18" cut.
But my sister still has it and it still starts first pull and mows the common area of her block just as well as it did our old home.
Now days a bottom end ride on is 3 weeks wages with a 20Hp V twin and a 42" cut but they will be lucky to be running at all in 5 years time.

Right now I am swapping the engines from a 2006 Murray sentenial with a dead tranny for which there is no replacement into a 2007 Murray Sentenial with a vari drive Tranny.
I have 5 more of these in the graveyard, mostly with smashed engines
OTOH the 1966 Rover with the 6 speed Peerless , chain drive & 10Hp SV Briggs is still running like a top.

Lots of my customers are still running mowers from the 70's , 80's & 90's with side valve shakers and they will probably still be running when petrol is no longer available

 

[bullrider]

One thing for sure, lubricants have improved massively, especially with regards to using pure synthetics that last a lot longer. And I do think tolerances in engines have been tightened up as well. The days of the old fashioned long slow break in have passed.

 

[bertsmobile1]

One thing for sure, lubricants have improved massively, especially with regards to using pure synthetics that last a lot longer. And I do think tolerances in engines have been tightened up as well. The days of the old fashioned long slow break in have passed.

Yes.
Carbide tooling was only used on very profitable defence & aerospace products till well into the 80's and in many instances the 90's
HSS & High carbon tooling changes size every time it is used so the run of parts starts off being tight with a new tool then gradually goes to out of spec when it gets replaced with a nice new sharp tool.
Automated machines work between stops so the tool travels the same distance on every part.
Carbide tooling holds its shape much much better so the parts are more consistant thus specified clearences can be tightened so what now rools off the line would have been a competition shop blueprinted engine 20 years ago.

Then the next step is real time computer control where the part is being measured all the time and the tooling movements changed to compensate for wear so tigher tollerances again.

Finally computer modeling has allowed parts to be made smaller & thinner with substantially less material.40 years ago parts were modified then tested to failure then modified & tested again.
Now days I can do that on my laptop computer which is a lot quicker and cheaper than making changes to metal.
The down side is I can also make parts that will just outlast warranty with a 99% certaincy that they will all fail outside the warranty period be it 1 year 2 years 5 years or 50 years.
Thus the customer can only get what they pay for, nothing more and rarely nothing less.