to many choices....

[Chugbug]

Ya know you two sound like an old married couple anything we need to know lol......It was both Dealer and company, not sure but the dealer could have been working behind my back with the manufacture.....either way I'm done with them. I've been hearing alot of good about the Vanguard as well might be worth looking at but with the Ferris there was only a 500. Difference. As far as the ride it is so far beyond anyone one else, I demoed the Cheetah and Hustler that day as well and went back over and over and the Ferris ride is everything they say, for me the 3200 rode even better than the 2100, they moved to the top of my list but still got some more demoing to do lol

 

[Shughes717]

Ya know you two sound like an old married couple anything we need to know lol......It was both Dealer and company, not sure but the dealer could have been working behind my back with the manufacture.....either way I'm done with them. I've been hearing alot of good about the Vanguard as well might be worth looking at but with the Ferris there was only a 500. Difference. As far as the ride it is so far beyond anyone one else, I demoed the Cheetah and Hustler that day as well and went back over and over and the Ferris ride is everything they say, for me the 3200 rode even better than the 2100, they moved to the top of my list but still got some more demoing to do lol

In truth, the vanguard isn't even an American built engine. daihatsu actually builds them (b&s partnered with them to make the engine). Daihatsu is owned by Toyota. So two of the top commercial mower engine brands are actually japanese made.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Lol, man those words had to taste bad coming out of your mouth.:laughing: Chugbug, Ric is absolutely right about us going back and forth all the time. It is absolutely in good fun and other members usually get a kick out of our banter. I don't like briggs engines either, except for the vanguard (I think is one of the best commercial engines on the market). You have to remember that none of those low end briggs engines are even offered on ferris or snapper pro mowers. The only briggs engines I ever see on them other than the vanguard is the new commercial turf engine, which from what I have read is getting pretty good reviews.

What they are circumventing in their own sweet way is for a great number of years the vertical shaft was the cheapest possible engine that any factory could shot together.
With the exception of Honda which made their vertical to the same quality as their horizontals.
The reaon for this is simple.
Once a rotary mower transgressed the boundry between a luxury good and a consumer durable it bacame extremely cost sensitive. Exactly the same as cars, motorcycles, pushbikes, TV's , Radios and just about everything you have in your house.
So some where around the late 60's early 70's the quality of vertical shaft engines went strait down the toilet.
Working on the Henry Ford Principal that people are idiots and will buy any trash just so long as it is cheap enough, domestic ride on mowers went headlong on the road to the bottom.
During this time only Honda made a really high quality engine and the Honda option just about doubled the price. Quality Commercial mowers all used the horizontal shaft motor or had vertical shaft motors made to horizontal shaft specs ( JD & Toro ). Horizontalshaft motors go into welders, generators , compressors pums & the like that are expected to run 50 hours ( or more a week ) so they had to be more durable.
A vertical shaft domestic motor, like a model T Ford is built to a last a very specific time span , around 500 hours or 10 years domestically.
Along the way to the bottom a lot of companies crashed out collided of just plain disappeared into the dust till only a handfull survived.
Ask people about names that have dissappeared and you only get two stories.
A fantasic mower but way too dear or a an over priced pile of dog dropping.
Like management & politics it is only the mediocre that survive.

So now all of the remainder have smashed into each other at the bottom of the quality hill and finally noticed that the sun was dissapearing behind a cloud of Chineese pollution and not being able to compete on a cost basis all of them had to lift their game or go to the wall so the quality of both mowers & engines is again on the way up as the remainder try to find a nieche spot to contine in because the big box Chineese imports are going to take nearly all of the cheap garbage end of the market.

As for ownership.
By corperate law all public companies are always for sale.
Contry to popular belief this is what the stock market is all about and if some one wants your company and had the financial means to acquire it there is nothing you can do about it.
Now Briggs wants every local mower maker to ensure that they keep using Briggs engines so Briggs will survive .
Now there are two ways to do it. Make a product so good and so cheap that the competition can not sell their product.
Or own the market. The cheapest way to do it is the latter. Not only do you ensure yourself a market but you make all the profits from the products you control so you can do very inovative things like sell your motors to yourself for cost price and hope to gain a greater share of the market and reap the profits at the consumer sales end of the market.

So in reality it makes a natts knackers difference who owns the company or what they have made or done before all that is important is the lump of iron you see in front of you and how well it performs the tasts you require of it.

OTOH it has been a fun thread to watch & even more fun to see peoples character, thought, ideals & perjudices being exposed but none of it will be of any real assistance to the OP's dilemma.
Climbs of soap box, places it under staircase & waith to be shot down in flames.

 

[Ric]

In truth, the vanguard isn't even an American built engine. daihatsu actually builds them (b&s partnered with them to make the engine). Daihatsu is owned by Toyota. So two of the top commercial mower engine brands are actually japanese made.

Basically Briggs went into partnership with Daihatsu forming (DBS) by building them a 57000 sqft building with that Briggs was granted the right to put there name on the Vanguard engine and marketing rights for the engine here in this country.

 

[catdiesel]

The only reason I went with a Briggs Vanguard with my 2 machines is because they don't build them. As mentioned Daihatsu builds them and they are a superior engine to anything Briggs has made. I prefer Kawasaki but I'm not losing sleep over the Vangaurd. Basically Briggs has destroyed their bran over the years by cutting corners at every step of the manufacturing process. Kohler isn't far behind.

 

[1striper1]

The only reason I went with a Briggs Vanguard with my 2 machines is because they don't build them. As mentioned Daihatsu builds them and they are a superior engine to anything Briggs has made. I prefer Kawasaki but I'm not losing sleep over the Vangaurd. Basically Briggs has destroyed their bran over the years by cutting corners at every step of the manufacturing process. Kohler isn't far behind.

Not to get off topic but who builds the Briggs Professional Series engine?

As ChugBug's choice's for mowers are all "high quality" mowers, wouldn't a prime consideration be "is the dealer reputable and will he back me if/when I have problems"?

It's ChugBug's money too, he can buy whatever he wants.

 

[catdiesel]

Not to get off topic but who builds the Briggs Professional Series engine?

As ChugBug's choice's for mowers are all "high quality" mowers, wouldn't a prime consideration be "is the dealer reputable and will he back me if/when I have problems"?

It's ChugBug's money too, he can buy whatever he wants.

All Briggs with the exception of the Vanguard are built in China. In fact you can't even buy a snowblower anymore that doesn't have an engine built in China. Ariens has switched to LCT in most of their models, but the Briggs Pro was moved from the U.S. to China about 2 years ago. Sad.

 

[Shughes717]

All Briggs with the exception of the Vanguard are built in China. In fact you can't even buy a snowblower anymore that doesn't have an engine built in China. Ariens has switched to LCT in most of their models, but the Briggs Pro was moved from the U.S. to China about 2 years ago. Sad.

The briggs factory in Newbern Tennessee did close two years ago, but according to their site nearly 90% of their engines are still made in the U.S.. I know there are other factories still in the U.S.. They claim the only commercial engines that are not built in the U.S. Are their vanguard line.

 

[1striper1]

.......but according to their site nearly 90% of their engines are still made in the U.S..

I wonder if a correct statement is; "90% of our engines are assembled in the USA using global sourced components"?

Using the word "Made" might be technically true but it is deceptive IMO.

 

[Shughes717]

I wonder if a correct statement is; "90% of our engines are assembled in the USA using global sourced components"?

Using the word "Made" might be technically true but it is deceptive IMO.

Honestly, I would guess that every engine manufacturer uses a similar method to build their engines. Not many things are totally american made these days. Here is the direct quote from their site.


Nearly 90% of our engines are manufactured in the U.S.A. from U.S. and global parts. Supporting the power within each of us is our brand promise. It's why over 3,000 people build over 9 million engines in our U.S. factories each year from U.S. and global parts. And it's the reason why consumers look for the Briggs & Stratton brand when they shop for power equipment.

The consumer engines manufactured outside the United States are:

700 Series DOVｮ
550, 750, 800, 900, 1150, 2100 Series Utility
800, 900, 1150, 2100 Snow Series
Commercial grade engines manufactured outside of the United States include:

Vanguard V-Twin Horizontal and Vertical Shaft
Vanguard 3 Cylinder
Vanguard Single Cylinder Horizontal Shaft (except Model 19)
All Vanguard engines are engineered in the USA.

For plant locations, please visit our Corporate & Plant Locations page, or view the map provided on the America Strong page of our Engines Matter Web site (best viewed with Flash).