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to many choices....
#1
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Chugbug
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Chugbug
In an earlier post I thought I had a new ZTR down to a couple of choices (Cheetah or X One) but no such luck. Today I took a look at the Bad Boy line geared towards the Outlaw XP and was very impressed, what a tank WOW is all I can say. Anyone using a Bad Boy or demoed can you help shed some light??? Again I mow around 6 acres about 3 are yard and the rest is old corn fields /pig farm. They priced out the 72" XP for roughly 9400. and the 61" for around 9300. Got a chance to ride and it was amazing bit didn't cut any grass so I'm not sure on the cut
#2
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Chugbug
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Chugbug
They were offering 0% for 48 months but the dealer said the lender still charges a finance fee which would be .07% of the cost of the loan this would add 650. Per machine, has anyone dealt or knows anything about this, only other thing was the warranty was for only 2 years.
#3
Ric
Who are they using to finance there mowers? Synchrony and Sheffield offer like six different plans and they still offer the 0% 48 month Financing. They charge a 99$ fee for doing the loan up front but no interest. I did the 0% 48 month Financing on my Toro. Personally if I'm financing I'll stay with the bigger company's like Toro, Hustler, Scag. They offer better warranty's on there machines and will back them up. A 2year warranty compared to 4 or 5 year warranty is a no brainier.
[h=4] [/h]
Ric
They were offering 0% for 48 months but the dealer said the lender still charges a finance fee which would be .07% of the cost of the loan this would add 650. Per machine, has anyone dealt or knows anything about this, only other thing was the warranty was for only 2 years.
Who are they using to finance there mowers? Synchrony and Sheffield offer like six different plans and they still offer the 0% 48 month Financing. They charge a 99$ fee for doing the loan up front but no interest. I did the 0% 48 month Financing on my Toro. Personally if I'm financing I'll stay with the bigger company's like Toro, Hustler, Scag. They offer better warranty's on there machines and will back them up. A 2year warranty compared to 4 or 5 year warranty is a no brainier.
[h=4] [/h]
#4
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Chugbug
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Chugbug
They were using Sheffield, didn't sound right as he was explain it....found out today the dealer pays a fee of roughly 7% to the lender on the price of the ztr if it's a 0% loan. Sounds like the dealer pays 2 or 3%, the manufacture pays 2 or 3 % and the lender eats the rest. Looks like the Bad Boy dealer was attempting to make me pay the full amount so it goes in his pocket. I demoed a Ferris 3200, Cheetah and Hustler today and the Ferris rode amazing, the Cheetah was a distant 2nd and the Hustler was last. The Bad Boy would have came in 2nd between the Ferris and Cheetah. Ferris just moved to the top of the list.
#5
Ric
I used Synchrony when I purchased the Toro. Have you looked at the Toro Z Master series I really like mine and I like the 4yr 500 hour warranty. I believe Toro is offering there $500 off the price again thru May 31st
Ric
They were using Sheffield, didn't sound right as he was explain it....found out today the dealer pays a fee of roughly 7% to the lender on the price of the ztr if it's a 0% loan. Sounds like the dealer pays 2 or 3%, the manufacture pays 2 or 3 % and the lender eats the rest. Looks like the Bad Boy dealer was attempting to make me pay the full amount so it goes in his pocket. I demoed a Ferris 3200, Cheetah and Hustler today and the Ferris rode amazing, the Cheetah was a distant 2nd and the Hustler was last. The Bad Boy would have came in 2nd between the Ferris and Cheetah. Ferris just moved to the top of the list.
I used Synchrony when I purchased the Toro. Have you looked at the Toro Z Master series I really like mine and I like the 4yr 500 hour warranty. I believe Toro is offering there $500 off the price again thru May 31st
#6
Vanousb
Vanousb
At your price range if you have a dealer, I would consider looking at the exmark pioneer s or laser series. Bias. Yes. Reputation and performance stay at top of zero turn list. But that being said, all you have listed so far are really good mowers that will do the job. Each will have their selling point. To me Dealer trust/service and personal feel of driving demo goes a long way at this level in final decision. Best of luck in deciding. Fyi I am financed through Sheffield. Was 0% interest. No issues at all.
#7
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Shughes717
I am a big fan of ferris, you don't have to just go with the is3200 for a great ride. If you want to save some money you can take a look at the is2100. It will handle 6 acres with ease. The toro zmaster series and the xmark laser z are pretty much the same mower. They are both very well built machines and good mowers, but they can't touch ferris for ride. If you have horses on your property toro was offering an equine discount. Don't know if they are still doing it, but they were this past fall.
S
Shughes717
They were using Sheffield, didn't sound right as he was explain it....found out today the dealer pays a fee of roughly 7% to the lender on the price of the ztr if it's a 0% loan. Sounds like the dealer pays 2 or 3%, the manufacture pays 2 or 3 % and the lender eats the rest. Looks like the Bad Boy dealer was attempting to make me pay the full amount so it goes in his pocket. I demoed a Ferris 3200, Cheetah and Hustler today and the Ferris rode amazing, the Cheetah was a distant 2nd and the Hustler was last. The Bad Boy would have came in 2nd between the Ferris and Cheetah. Ferris just moved to the top of the list.
I am a big fan of ferris, you don't have to just go with the is3200 for a great ride. If you want to save some money you can take a look at the is2100. It will handle 6 acres with ease. The toro zmaster series and the xmark laser z are pretty much the same mower. They are both very well built machines and good mowers, but they can't touch ferris for ride. If you have horses on your property toro was offering an equine discount. Don't know if they are still doing it, but they were this past fall.
#8
Ric
Now I'm not being sarcastic or anything but I kinda have to giggle a bit :smile: when some one talks about ride quality on a lawnmower and uses that as a basis for possibly buying a mower. I mean really ride is something one might look at when purchasing a car or maybe even a truck but were talking about a mower, something a homeowner will use maybe four times a month. Vanousb said Reputation and performance stay at top of zero turn list which is an excellent statement and you should take the to heart when considering Ferris as mower purchase. JMO
Ric
They were using Sheffield, didn't sound right as he was explain it....found out today the dealer pays a fee of roughly 7% to the lender on the price of the ztr if it's a 0% loan. Sounds like the dealer pays 2 or 3%, the manufacture pays 2 or 3 % and the lender eats the rest. Looks like the Bad Boy dealer was attempting to make me pay the full amount so it goes in his pocket. I demoed a Ferris 3200, Cheetah and Hustler today and the Ferris rode amazing, the Cheetah was a distant 2nd and the Hustler was last. The Bad Boy would have came in 2nd between the Ferris and Cheetah. Ferris just moved to the top of the list.
Now I'm not being sarcastic or anything but I kinda have to giggle a bit :smile: when some one talks about ride quality on a lawnmower and uses that as a basis for possibly buying a mower. I mean really ride is something one might look at when purchasing a car or maybe even a truck but were talking about a mower, something a homeowner will use maybe four times a month. Vanousb said Reputation and performance stay at top of zero turn list which is an excellent statement and you should take the to heart when considering Ferris as mower purchase. JMO
#9
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Shughes717
Ferris also has a great reputation and performance. As does hustler, scag, kubota, Etc. Every brand the op is looking at offers the same engines and transmission options, and all offer heavy duty commercial decks, so the other features are going to weigh in on the consumer's decision. If there are two mowers that have the same engine, transmission, both have welded heavy duty decks, close to the same price, both have great dealer support, then the only other things the consumer has to look at is paint color and extra features. If the second mower offers a suspension that will give me a more comfortable ride then I'm going to choose that mower every time.
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Shughes717
Now I'm not being sarcastic or anything but I kinda have to giggle a bit :smile: when some one talks about ride quality on a lawnmower and uses that as a basis for possibly buying a mower. I mean really ride is something one might look at when purchasing a car or maybe even a truck but were talking about a mower, something a homeowner will use maybe four times a month. Vanousb said Reputation and performance stay at top of zero turn list which is an excellent statement and you should take the to heart when considering Ferris as mower purchase. JMO
Ferris also has a great reputation and performance. As does hustler, scag, kubota, Etc. Every brand the op is looking at offers the same engines and transmission options, and all offer heavy duty commercial decks, so the other features are going to weigh in on the consumer's decision. If there are two mowers that have the same engine, transmission, both have welded heavy duty decks, close to the same price, both have great dealer support, then the only other things the consumer has to look at is paint color and extra features. If the second mower offers a suspension that will give me a more comfortable ride then I'm going to choose that mower every time.
#10
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Chugbug
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Chugbug
I believe the dealer was trying to get me to pay their cost for the 0% financing. Shughes the 2100 was the first one I tried and loved the ride but I tried the 3200 next and it rode even better than the 2100....maybe it was the extra weight or the foot print was wider but for me it rode better.
#11
Ric
Ferris having a great reputation and performance is a matter of ones opinion as it is with all mowers. Before I'd spend 7K on a mower I'd have to ask myself how good a reputation can a company and there product have when they have to sell out to another company to keep there mowers on the market. I'd have to ask some questions and do some research and make sure there not going the way Great Dane did after Ariens purchased them.
Ric
Ferris also has a great reputation and performance. As does hustler, scag, kubota, Etc. Every brand the op is looking at offers the same engines and transmission options, and all offer heavy duty commercial decks, so the other features are going to weigh in on the consumer's decision. If there are two mowers that have the same engine, transmission, both have welded heavy duty decks, close to the same price, both have great dealer support, then the only other things the consumer has to look at is paint color and extra features. If the second mower offers a suspension that will give me a more comfortable ride then I'm going to choose that mower every time.
Ferris having a great reputation and performance is a matter of ones opinion as it is with all mowers. Before I'd spend 7K on a mower I'd have to ask myself how good a reputation can a company and there product have when they have to sell out to another company to keep there mowers on the market. I'd have to ask some questions and do some research and make sure there not going the way Great Dane did after Ariens purchased them.
#12
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Shughes717
Companies are bought and sold all the time. Even hustler has been purchased by excel industries. Does that mean that they couldn't sell enough mowers to stay in business? Just because ferris has a parent company doesn't mean they were going under before they were purchased. You are making an assumption without any actual knowledge about the details. It is your opinion that toro has the best reputation. The forums on here have plenty of testimonials for all brands. They are all made with the same major components, so performance isn't going to be an issue with any of the major brands. Dealer support is going to be different for consumers due to availability in different areas of the world, but ferris has strong dealer support in my area. Ferris has been owned by briggs for years (purchased in 2004) and is still here. They are a major brand. Your arguement is weak. Toro could go under tomorrow. No one knows what the future holds. Great Dane may not be sold under that name, but ariens still uses the design on their mowers.
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Shughes717
Ferris having a great reputation and performance is a matter of ones opinion as it is with all mowers. Before I'd spend 7K on a mower I'd have to ask myself how good a reputation can a company and there product have when they have to sell out to another company to keep there mowers on the market. I'd have to ask some questions and do some research and make sure there not going the way Great Dane did after Ariens purchased them.
Companies are bought and sold all the time. Even hustler has been purchased by excel industries. Does that mean that they couldn't sell enough mowers to stay in business? Just because ferris has a parent company doesn't mean they were going under before they were purchased. You are making an assumption without any actual knowledge about the details. It is your opinion that toro has the best reputation. The forums on here have plenty of testimonials for all brands. They are all made with the same major components, so performance isn't going to be an issue with any of the major brands. Dealer support is going to be different for consumers due to availability in different areas of the world, but ferris has strong dealer support in my area. Ferris has been owned by briggs for years (purchased in 2004) and is still here. They are a major brand. Your arguement is weak. Toro could go under tomorrow. No one knows what the future holds. Great Dane may not be sold under that name, but ariens still uses the design on their mowers.
#13
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Chugbug
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Chugbug
Ric, I've been sitting here for about a 1/2 hour thinking about how to respond to your comment without sounding like a jerk, I value and appreciate everyone's comments /opinions that's why I posted on here. 30 years ago I would have bought the Cheetah and pedal to the metal I would have cut my grass...30 years later with a destroyed/disease lowered back, tail bone, neck and knees you tend to look at things a little differently, I've done a lot of work in the yard to reduce the amount of weed eating from roughly 45 minutes to about 5 minutes now. I looked at product reputation, build, comfort, cut, warranty and dealer service. I did a lot of research, they all have great reputations (not sure at all with the Bad Dog) they all cut grass well, they're all are heavy duty commercial mowers, they all have good warranties (excluding the Bad Dog) but when it came down to the comfort in the ride, they all offered some level of comfort but none of them could come close to Ferris. With everything being somewhat equal I think it's going to be hard to beat the Ferris but I'm not done looking I'm sure there's another demo in my future lol
#14
Ric
When I responded and said Ferris having a great reputation and performance is a matter of ones opinion as it is with all mowers is exactly what it is, it's all just someones opinion. As you say they will all be good mowers so it doesn't matter what you buy.
Personally I just don't believe that a company like Ferris or Snapper are going to sell out without a reason and If I were going to buy one of those brands I would want to know what that reason was before I spend 6 or 7K on one that's all I'm saying but that's just me.
I've been going to a chiropractor since 1977 for neck, upper and lower back and hip adjustments and still going and he is the reason I'm on a Toro Grandstand so I know a little bit about where you're coming from.
Ric
Ric, I've been sitting here for about a 1/2 hour thinking about how to respond to your comment without sounding like a jerk, I value and appreciate everyone's comments /opinions that's why I posted on here. 30 years ago I would have bought the Cheetah and pedal to the metal I would have cut my grass...30 years later with a destroyed/disease lowered back, tail bone, neck and knees you tend to look at things a little differently, I've done a lot of work in the yard to reduce the amount of weed eating from roughly 45 minutes to about 5 minutes now. I looked at product reputation, build, comfort, cut, warranty and dealer service. I did a lot of research, they all have great reputations (not sure at all with the Bad Dog) they all cut grass well, they're all are heavy duty commercial mowers, they all have good warranties (excluding the Bad Dog) but when it came down to the comfort in the ride, they all offered some level of comfort but none of them could come close to Ferris. With everything being somewhat equal I think it's going to be hard to beat the Ferris but I'm not done looking I'm sure there's another demo in my future lol
When I responded and said Ferris having a great reputation and performance is a matter of ones opinion as it is with all mowers is exactly what it is, it's all just someones opinion. As you say they will all be good mowers so it doesn't matter what you buy.
Personally I just don't believe that a company like Ferris or Snapper are going to sell out without a reason and If I were going to buy one of those brands I would want to know what that reason was before I spend 6 or 7K on one that's all I'm saying but that's just me.
I've been going to a chiropractor since 1977 for neck, upper and lower back and hip adjustments and still going and he is the reason I'm on a Toro Grandstand so I know a little bit about where you're coming from.
#15
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Shughes717
Chug bug, Ric has a blind mortal hatred for briggs. He has not and will not try ferris or snapper pro because both are owned by briggs. I have explained that both mowers are still made at the same factories by the same people who have been making them for years. He just doesn't want to hear that. That's what it all boils down to.
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Shughes717
Ric, I've been sitting here for about a 1/2 hour thinking about how to respond to your comment without sounding like a jerk, I value and appreciate everyone's comments /opinions that's why I posted on here. 30 years ago I would have bought the Cheetah and pedal to the metal I would have cut my grass...30 years later with a destroyed/disease lowered back, tail bone, neck and knees you tend to look at things a little differently, I've done a lot of work in the yard to reduce the amount of weed eating from roughly 45 minutes to about 5 minutes now. I looked at product reputation, build, comfort, cut, warranty and dealer service. I did a lot of research, they all have great reputations (not sure at all with the Bad Dog) they all cut grass well, they're all are heavy duty commercial mowers, they all have good warranties (excluding the Bad Dog) but when it came down to the comfort in the ride, they all offered some level of comfort but none of them could come close to Ferris. With everything being somewhat equal I think it's going to be hard to beat the Ferris but I'm not done looking I'm sure there's another demo in my future lol
Chug bug, Ric has a blind mortal hatred for briggs. He has not and will not try ferris or snapper pro because both are owned by briggs. I have explained that both mowers are still made at the same factories by the same people who have been making them for years. He just doesn't want to hear that. That's what it all boils down to.
#16
Ric
:laughing: You do have away with words Shughes, a blind mortal hatred for briggs, I like that Really, :wink:. Thing is my blind mortal hatred for briggs is no different than others who have a blind mortal hatred for MTD.
Ric
Chug bug, Ric has a blind mortal hatred for briggs. He has not and will not try ferris or snapper pro because both are owned by briggs. I have explained that both mowers are still made at the same factories by the same people who have been making them for years. He just doesn't want to hear that. That's what it all boils down to.
:laughing: You do have away with words Shughes, a blind mortal hatred for briggs, I like that Really, :wink:. Thing is my blind mortal hatred for briggs is no different than others who have a blind mortal hatred for MTD.
#17
S
Shughes717
Lol, I thought you might like that. Don't forget about those who have a blind mortal hatred for jd.:laughing:
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Shughes717
:laughing: You do have away with words Shughes, a blind mortal hatred for briggs, I like that Really, :wink:. Thing is my blind mortal hatred for briggs is no different than others who have a blind mortal hatred for MTD.
Lol, I thought you might like that. Don't forget about those who have a blind mortal hatred for jd.:laughing:
#18
C
Chugbug
C
Chugbug
Can't we all just get along lol.....Ric sorry you got back problems wouldn't wish that on anyone, with that being said I'm really surprised with your comment about comfort being used as a consideration in the purchase of a mower, interesting to say the least????? I'm not a big fan of Briggs motors but they sure can make a great ZTR and the motor will be Kaw. Nor will I ever own a Toro again....a couple of warranty issues were not handled well by the dealer or Manufacture, they finally did but I had to fight tooth and nail, it wasn't the equipment issue, anything mechanical can fail it's how it was handled......
#19
Ric
Don't worry about Shughes and me :smile: we harass each other all the time, but it's all in fun. As far as the comfort issue goes I just don't think seats or the shocks on a Ferris would be worth the extra cost or money for comfort they claim they would provide.
I'd have to guess your problem with Toro would have been the dealer because I've never had a problem with Toro and warranty issues on any of the three mowers and the turf-master went through that recall and they replaced spindles, belts, cables and blades without issue.
Shughes was right though I do have a blind mortal hatred for briggs and anything they own it was well earned. I mean really when a shear pin strips the crank in one or the last B&S engine I had that was the last straw for me.
Ferris is a good mower along with Snapper and I have nothing against them, it's just the fact that Briggs is again building there reputation on the back of yet another company that bugs me and Yes
Shughes as much as it hurts I said Snapper :wink:
Ric
Can't we all just get along lol.....Ric sorry you got back problems wouldn't wish that on anyone, with that being said I'm really surprised with your comment about comfort being used as a consideration in the purchase of a mower, interesting to say the least????? I'm not a big fan of Briggs motors but they sure can make a great ZTR and the motor will be Kaw. Nor will I ever own a Toro again....a couple of warranty issues were not handled well by the dealer or Manufacture, they finally did but I had to fight tooth and nail, it wasn't the equipment issue, anything mechanical can fail it's how it was handled......
Don't worry about Shughes and me :smile: we harass each other all the time, but it's all in fun. As far as the comfort issue goes I just don't think seats or the shocks on a Ferris would be worth the extra cost or money for comfort they claim they would provide.
I'd have to guess your problem with Toro would have been the dealer because I've never had a problem with Toro and warranty issues on any of the three mowers and the turf-master went through that recall and they replaced spindles, belts, cables and blades without issue.
Shughes was right though I do have a blind mortal hatred for briggs and anything they own it was well earned. I mean really when a shear pin strips the crank in one or the last B&S engine I had that was the last straw for me.
Ferris is a good mower along with Snapper and I have nothing against them, it's just the fact that Briggs is again building there reputation on the back of yet another company that bugs me and Yes
Shughes as much as it hurts I said Snapper :wink:
#20
S
Shughes717
Lol, man those words had to taste bad coming out of your mouth.:laughing: Chugbug, Ric is absolutely right about us going back and forth all the time. It is absolutely in good fun and other members usually get a kick out of our banter. I don't like briggs engines either, except for the vanguard (I think is one of the best commercial engines on the market). You have to remember that none of those low end briggs engines are even offered on ferris or snapper pro mowers. The only briggs engines I ever see on them other than the vanguard is the new commercial turf engine, which from what I have read is getting pretty good reviews.
S
Shughes717
Don't worry about Shughes and me :smile: we harass each other all the time, but it's all in fun. As far as the comfort issue goes I just don't think seats or the shocks on a Ferris would be worth the extra cost or money for comfort they claim they would provide.
I'd have to guess your problem with Toro would have been the dealer because I've never had a problem with Toro and warranty issues on any of the three mowers and the turf-master went through that recall and they replaced spindles, belts, cables and blades without issue.
Shughes was right though I do have a blind mortal hatred for briggs and anything they own it was well earned. I mean really when a shear pin strips the crank in one or the last B&S engine I had that was the last straw for me.
Ferris is a good mower along with Snapper and I have nothing against them, it's just the fact that Briggs is again building there reputation on the back of yet another company that bugs me and Yes
Shughes as much as it hurts I said Snapper :wink:
Lol, man those words had to taste bad coming out of your mouth.:laughing: Chugbug, Ric is absolutely right about us going back and forth all the time. It is absolutely in good fun and other members usually get a kick out of our banter. I don't like briggs engines either, except for the vanguard (I think is one of the best commercial engines on the market). You have to remember that none of those low end briggs engines are even offered on ferris or snapper pro mowers. The only briggs engines I ever see on them other than the vanguard is the new commercial turf engine, which from what I have read is getting pretty good reviews.
#21
C
Chugbug
C
Chugbug
Ya know you two sound like an old married couple anything we need to know lol......It was both Dealer and company, not sure but the dealer could have been working behind my back with the manufacture.....either way I'm done with them. I've been hearing alot of good about the Vanguard as well might be worth looking at but with the Ferris there was only a 500. Difference. As far as the ride it is so far beyond anyone one else, I demoed the Cheetah and Hustler that day as well and went back over and over and the Ferris ride is everything they say, for me the 3200 rode even better than the 2100, they moved to the top of my list but still got some more demoing to do lol
#22
S
Shughes717
In truth, the vanguard isn't even an American built engine. daihatsu actually builds them (b&s partnered with them to make the engine). Daihatsu is owned by Toyota. So two of the top commercial mower engine brands are actually japanese made.
S
Shughes717
Ya know you two sound like an old married couple anything we need to know lol......It was both Dealer and company, not sure but the dealer could have been working behind my back with the manufacture.....either way I'm done with them. I've been hearing alot of good about the Vanguard as well might be worth looking at but with the Ferris there was only a 500. Difference. As far as the ride it is so far beyond anyone one else, I demoed the Cheetah and Hustler that day as well and went back over and over and the Ferris ride is everything they say, for me the 3200 rode even better than the 2100, they moved to the top of my list but still got some more demoing to do lol
In truth, the vanguard isn't even an American built engine. daihatsu actually builds them (b&s partnered with them to make the engine). Daihatsu is owned by Toyota. So two of the top commercial mower engine brands are actually japanese made.
#23
B
bertsmobile1
What they are circumventing in their own sweet way is for a great number of years the vertical shaft was the cheapest possible engine that any factory could shot together.
With the exception of Honda which made their vertical to the same quality as their horizontals.
The reaon for this is simple.
Once a rotary mower transgressed the boundry between a luxury good and a consumer durable it bacame extremely cost sensitive. Exactly the same as cars, motorcycles, pushbikes, TV's , Radios and just about everything you have in your house.
So some where around the late 60's early 70's the quality of vertical shaft engines went strait down the toilet.
Working on the Henry Ford Principal that people are idiots and will buy any trash just so long as it is cheap enough, domestic ride on mowers went headlong on the road to the bottom.
During this time only Honda made a really high quality engine and the Honda option just about doubled the price. Quality Commercial mowers all used the horizontal shaft motor or had vertical shaft motors made to horizontal shaft specs ( JD & Toro ). Horizontalshaft motors go into welders, generators , compressors pums & the like that are expected to run 50 hours ( or more a week ) so they had to be more durable.
A vertical shaft domestic motor, like a model T Ford is built to a last a very specific time span , around 500 hours or 10 years domestically.
Along the way to the bottom a lot of companies crashed out collided of just plain disappeared into the dust till only a handfull survived.
Ask people about names that have dissappeared and you only get two stories.
A fantasic mower but way too dear or a an over priced pile of dog dropping.
Like management & politics it is only the mediocre that survive.
So now all of the remainder have smashed into each other at the bottom of the quality hill and finally noticed that the sun was dissapearing behind a cloud of Chineese pollution and not being able to compete on a cost basis all of them had to lift their game or go to the wall so the quality of both mowers & engines is again on the way up as the remainder try to find a nieche spot to contine in because the big box Chineese imports are going to take nearly all of the cheap garbage end of the market.
As for ownership.
By corperate law all public companies are always for sale.
Contry to popular belief this is what the stock market is all about and if some one wants your company and had the financial means to acquire it there is nothing you can do about it.
Now Briggs wants every local mower maker to ensure that they keep using Briggs engines so Briggs will survive .
Now there are two ways to do it. Make a product so good and so cheap that the competition can not sell their product.
Or own the market. The cheapest way to do it is the latter. Not only do you ensure yourself a market but you make all the profits from the products you control so you can do very inovative things like sell your motors to yourself for cost price and hope to gain a greater share of the market and reap the profits at the consumer sales end of the market.
So in reality it makes a natts knackers difference who owns the company or what they have made or done before all that is important is the lump of iron you see in front of you and how well it performs the tasts you require of it.
OTOH it has been a fun thread to watch & even more fun to see peoples character, thought, ideals & perjudices being exposed but none of it will be of any real assistance to the OP's dilemma.
Climbs of soap box, places it under staircase & waith to be shot down in flames.
B
bertsmobile1
Lol, man those words had to taste bad coming out of your mouth.:laughing: Chugbug, Ric is absolutely right about us going back and forth all the time. It is absolutely in good fun and other members usually get a kick out of our banter. I don't like briggs engines either, except for the vanguard (I think is one of the best commercial engines on the market). You have to remember that none of those low end briggs engines are even offered on ferris or snapper pro mowers. The only briggs engines I ever see on them other than the vanguard is the new commercial turf engine, which from what I have read is getting pretty good reviews.
What they are circumventing in their own sweet way is for a great number of years the vertical shaft was the cheapest possible engine that any factory could shot together.
With the exception of Honda which made their vertical to the same quality as their horizontals.
The reaon for this is simple.
Once a rotary mower transgressed the boundry between a luxury good and a consumer durable it bacame extremely cost sensitive. Exactly the same as cars, motorcycles, pushbikes, TV's , Radios and just about everything you have in your house.
So some where around the late 60's early 70's the quality of vertical shaft engines went strait down the toilet.
Working on the Henry Ford Principal that people are idiots and will buy any trash just so long as it is cheap enough, domestic ride on mowers went headlong on the road to the bottom.
During this time only Honda made a really high quality engine and the Honda option just about doubled the price. Quality Commercial mowers all used the horizontal shaft motor or had vertical shaft motors made to horizontal shaft specs ( JD & Toro ). Horizontalshaft motors go into welders, generators , compressors pums & the like that are expected to run 50 hours ( or more a week ) so they had to be more durable.
A vertical shaft domestic motor, like a model T Ford is built to a last a very specific time span , around 500 hours or 10 years domestically.
Along the way to the bottom a lot of companies crashed out collided of just plain disappeared into the dust till only a handfull survived.
Ask people about names that have dissappeared and you only get two stories.
A fantasic mower but way too dear or a an over priced pile of dog dropping.
Like management & politics it is only the mediocre that survive.
So now all of the remainder have smashed into each other at the bottom of the quality hill and finally noticed that the sun was dissapearing behind a cloud of Chineese pollution and not being able to compete on a cost basis all of them had to lift their game or go to the wall so the quality of both mowers & engines is again on the way up as the remainder try to find a nieche spot to contine in because the big box Chineese imports are going to take nearly all of the cheap garbage end of the market.
As for ownership.
By corperate law all public companies are always for sale.
Contry to popular belief this is what the stock market is all about and if some one wants your company and had the financial means to acquire it there is nothing you can do about it.
Now Briggs wants every local mower maker to ensure that they keep using Briggs engines so Briggs will survive .
Now there are two ways to do it. Make a product so good and so cheap that the competition can not sell their product.
Or own the market. The cheapest way to do it is the latter. Not only do you ensure yourself a market but you make all the profits from the products you control so you can do very inovative things like sell your motors to yourself for cost price and hope to gain a greater share of the market and reap the profits at the consumer sales end of the market.
So in reality it makes a natts knackers difference who owns the company or what they have made or done before all that is important is the lump of iron you see in front of you and how well it performs the tasts you require of it.
OTOH it has been a fun thread to watch & even more fun to see peoples character, thought, ideals & perjudices being exposed but none of it will be of any real assistance to the OP's dilemma.
Climbs of soap box, places it under staircase & waith to be shot down in flames.
#24
Ric
Basically Briggs went into partnership with Daihatsu forming (DBS) by building them a 57000 sqft building with that Briggs was granted the right to put there name on the Vanguard engine and marketing rights for the engine here in this country.
Ric
In truth, the vanguard isn't even an American built engine. daihatsu actually builds them (b&s partnered with them to make the engine). Daihatsu is owned by Toyota. So two of the top commercial mower engine brands are actually japanese made.
Basically Briggs went into partnership with Daihatsu forming (DBS) by building them a 57000 sqft building with that Briggs was granted the right to put there name on the Vanguard engine and marketing rights for the engine here in this country.
#25
catdiesel
catdiesel
The only reason I went with a Briggs Vanguard with my 2 machines is because they don't build them. As mentioned Daihatsu builds them and they are a superior engine to anything Briggs has made. I prefer Kawasaki but I'm not losing sleep over the Vangaurd. Basically Briggs has destroyed their bran over the years by cutting corners at every step of the manufacturing process. Kohler isn't far behind.
#26
1
1striper1
Not to get off topic but who builds the Briggs Professional Series engine?
As ChugBug's choice's for mowers are all "high quality" mowers, wouldn't a prime consideration be "is the dealer reputable and will he back me if/when I have problems"?
It's ChugBug's money too, he can buy whatever he wants.
1
1striper1
The only reason I went with a Briggs Vanguard with my 2 machines is because they don't build them. As mentioned Daihatsu builds them and they are a superior engine to anything Briggs has made. I prefer Kawasaki but I'm not losing sleep over the Vangaurd. Basically Briggs has destroyed their bran over the years by cutting corners at every step of the manufacturing process. Kohler isn't far behind.
Not to get off topic but who builds the Briggs Professional Series engine?
As ChugBug's choice's for mowers are all "high quality" mowers, wouldn't a prime consideration be "is the dealer reputable and will he back me if/when I have problems"?
It's ChugBug's money too, he can buy whatever he wants.
#27
catdiesel
All Briggs with the exception of the Vanguard are built in China. In fact you can't even buy a snowblower anymore that doesn't have an engine built in China. Ariens has switched to LCT in most of their models, but the Briggs Pro was moved from the U.S. to China about 2 years ago. Sad.
catdiesel
Not to get off topic but who builds the Briggs Professional Series engine?
As ChugBug's choice's for mowers are all "high quality" mowers, wouldn't a prime consideration be "is the dealer reputable and will he back me if/when I have problems"?
It's ChugBug's money too, he can buy whatever he wants.
All Briggs with the exception of the Vanguard are built in China. In fact you can't even buy a snowblower anymore that doesn't have an engine built in China. Ariens has switched to LCT in most of their models, but the Briggs Pro was moved from the U.S. to China about 2 years ago. Sad.
#28
S
Shughes717
The briggs factory in Newbern Tennessee did close two years ago, but according to their site nearly 90% of their engines are still made in the U.S.. I know there are other factories still in the U.S.. They claim the only commercial engines that are not built in the U.S. Are their vanguard line.
S
Shughes717
All Briggs with the exception of the Vanguard are built in China. In fact you can't even buy a snowblower anymore that doesn't have an engine built in China. Ariens has switched to LCT in most of their models, but the Briggs Pro was moved from the U.S. to China about 2 years ago. Sad.
The briggs factory in Newbern Tennessee did close two years ago, but according to their site nearly 90% of their engines are still made in the U.S.. I know there are other factories still in the U.S.. They claim the only commercial engines that are not built in the U.S. Are their vanguard line.
#29
1
1striper1
I wonder if a correct statement is; "90% of our engines are assembled in the USA using global sourced components"?
Using the word "Made" might be technically true but it is deceptive IMO.
1
1striper1
.......but according to their site nearly 90% of their engines are still made in the U.S..
I wonder if a correct statement is; "90% of our engines are assembled in the USA using global sourced components"?
Using the word "Made" might be technically true but it is deceptive IMO.
#30
S
Shughes717
Honestly, I would guess that every engine manufacturer uses a similar method to build their engines. Not many things are totally american made these days. Here is the direct quote from their site.
Nearly 90% of our engines are manufactured in the U.S.A. from U.S. and global parts. Supporting the power within each of us is our brand promise. It's why over 3,000 people build over 9 million engines in our U.S. factories each year from U.S. and global parts. And it's the reason why consumers look for the Briggs & Stratton brand when they shop for power equipment.
The consumer engines manufactured outside the United States are:
700 Series DOVｮ
550, 750, 800, 900, 1150, 2100 Series Utility
800, 900, 1150, 2100 Snow Series
Commercial grade engines manufactured outside of the United States include:
Vanguard V-Twin Horizontal and Vertical Shaft
Vanguard 3 Cylinder
Vanguard Single Cylinder Horizontal Shaft (except Model 19)
All Vanguard engines are engineered in the USA.
For plant locations, please visit our Corporate & Plant Locations page, or view the map provided on the America Strong page of our Engines Matter Web site (best viewed with Flash).
S
Shughes717
I wonder if a correct statement is; "90% of our engines are assembled in the USA using global sourced components"?
Using the word "Made" might be technically true but it is deceptive IMO.
Honestly, I would guess that every engine manufacturer uses a similar method to build their engines. Not many things are totally american made these days. Here is the direct quote from their site.
Nearly 90% of our engines are manufactured in the U.S.A. from U.S. and global parts. Supporting the power within each of us is our brand promise. It's why over 3,000 people build over 9 million engines in our U.S. factories each year from U.S. and global parts. And it's the reason why consumers look for the Briggs & Stratton brand when they shop for power equipment.
The consumer engines manufactured outside the United States are:
700 Series DOVｮ
550, 750, 800, 900, 1150, 2100 Series Utility
800, 900, 1150, 2100 Snow Series
Commercial grade engines manufactured outside of the United States include:
Vanguard V-Twin Horizontal and Vertical Shaft
Vanguard 3 Cylinder
Vanguard Single Cylinder Horizontal Shaft (except Model 19)
All Vanguard engines are engineered in the USA.
For plant locations, please visit our Corporate & Plant Locations page, or view the map provided on the America Strong page of our Engines Matter Web site (best viewed with Flash).