octane and ethanol

[Jetblast]

OK, Top Tier gas has a higher detergent level so although unlikely, there's a possibility it could keep your car's fuel injectors cleaner. A carburetor engine is even less likely to be impacted.

The claims for better running, mileage, performance, etc. are extraordinary, yet there's no extraordinary proof for them. Just anecdotal accounts similar to what one can hear about energy bracelets, which are most easily explained by placebo effect.

If I've missed any empirical third-party studies supporting what you've said which have been published, peer reviewed, and controlled for bias and placebo, I'd like to know about them so I can begin using only Top Tier gas, and so I can further spread the word. Unfortunately, I can't find anything like that. They're the ones making the claims so the burden of proof is on them.

I don't mean to be dogging you, it's not you, it's them. Years ago I used to go around raving about how great Slick 50 was and how much cooler my engine ran because of it's exceptional lubricating properties. In time I realized I'd been duped. Same story with Teflon in my oil. I was convinced of its value until my father made me read a document from DuPont, the makers of Teflon, stating that there was absolutely no way that Teflon can do anything good in oil, and in fact can cause harm by blocking oil passages.

 

[Jetblast]

Here's an interesting third-party test of premium branded gasoline vs. the cheaper stuff.

Detergent levels vary, fueling differences in gas quality | ScrippsNews

It's not real world usage, but it does show that premium brand fuels including those under the Top Tier umbrella do leave fewer deposits in their boil testing, and it shows that the detergent levels can be measured and found to be more than twice that of the EPA standard.

BP is not an official Top Tier brand, but they did great in the comparisons and I can use them without much more hassle than the discount place I've been using. I'll be making the switch.

Thanks for bringing up the topic of detergent levels. I (obviously) had no idea. :thumbsup:

 

[ILENGINE]

my 1996 dodge dakota with the 3.9 v6 recommended 87 octane also. engine knocks with anything below 91 octane and has since was new. three warranty dealer claims and still couldn't fix it.

 

[MidTNDawg]

I don't know of any ethanol free gas sellers around me and don't plan to look for them.

Would a higher octane offset any potential negative effects of the ethanol?

I have been running non-ethanol for about 4-5 months. The cost here is approx. 2-3% more than the E-10 commonly available. However my recorded mpg in three vehicles, 2006 Nissan Frontier, 2009 Nissan Altima, 1930 Dodge Brother Model DA DeLuxe reflects an increase of 10-15%. A number of respected authorities suspect ethanol of causing several problem with highway approved vehicles. Seems reasonable it would cause problems in mowers etc also.

 

[Woody71]

I run Shell gasoline in all my small engines. 87 in my Toro mower and 93 in both my echo trimmer and Craftsman leaf blower. I add 2 OZ of SeaFoam per gallon of gas each time I fill up the containers.

 

[Giles]

While many years ago ethanol in gas affected some of the plastic and rubber parts in engine fuel systems, that is no longer the case today. All gasoline today contains some ethanol and engines are made to live with it. One drawback of ethanol in gas is that it absorbs water, so there is more likelihood of corrosion in the tank and fuel system. However, ethanol is one of the components that raises octane and is now used instead of lead which is now taboo. Using ethanol in motor fuel is also politically correct because it comes from sustainable sources and not those crooks that own the oil wells. However, its heavily subsidized by our tax dollars and indirectly raises the price of our food.

"is now used instead of lead"

Would you care to explain how "valve cushoning" is accomplished with ethanol?

 

[oldyellr]

"is now used instead of lead"

Would you care to explain how "valve cushoning" is accomplished with ethanol?

It is not. The industry decision to go to catalytic converters requiring lead-free gas back in the 1970s caused a lot of problems not completely resolved by additives.

 

[Giles]

It is not. The industry decision to go to catalytic converters requiring lead-free gas back in the 1970s caused a lot of problems not completely resolved by additives.

Yes but one reason lead was added to gasoline, was to cushion (lubricate) the valves and seats. As you stated,it was removed by our wonderful EPA because of emissions. But "valve seat recession" still exist in older engines as a result. Years ago, I did a lot of testing and research on valve problems with older engines, and came to the conclusion that a vehicle with the engine under normal, or light, load, the valve problem usually didn't exist. However, the same engine under heavy use would , most likely, have problems.
THANKS for your clearification--I read your post as stating it was a substitute for "lead":thumbsup:

 

[oldyellr]

Yes but one reason lead was added to gasoline, was to cushion (lubricate) the valves and seats.

Tetraethyl lead was originally added to combat knock. The fact that it lubricated valve seats and stems was a bonus. It's still used in 100 octane aviation gasoline because you just don't mess with less effective substitutes when you could fall out of the sky.

 

[Black Bart]

When no lead fuel was made mandatory by epa the engines were equipped with hard valve seats.
Where I live we have fuel without ethanol but if the manufacture says 10 percent is ok then I would not worry about it.