Are Raptor SD blades level? (deck leveling question)

[mooch91]

All,
I'm in the process of leveling the deck on my 54 Raptor SD per the instructions in the manual. The manual has you set it level left-right and front-rear. I've heard that you should have 1/8" - 1/4" lower in the front for improved cut quality. Before I go and set it this way, I wanted to see if anyone knew if the blades themselves were level or if they were already pitched in this direction. I tried to measure them and they seemed fairly level, but it's hard to work under the deck with a tape measure. Thanks!

 

[dr mowers]

it really should be an 1/8 of an inch higher in the front (not lower) and the blades themselves should be level. when i work on the deck of a mower i jack the mower and set each tire on a cinder-block to make a little more room to work. you can also use something like 2x6's or any items that are uniformly constructed.

 

[tbarnett]

Place you mower on a level surface and raise the deck to it's highest setting. Cut 4 pieces of 2x4 the same length as the maximum height of the blade. Example: if the highest setting is 4-1/2 inches cut the wood pieces to this length.
Set your outside blades to face front/back and set the blocks under each tip of the blades. Adjust your deck until the tips of the blades just touch the top of the wood blocks.

Set your blades to face sideways and check the side to side setting. I've found that by doing the step above, a side to side adjustment is rarely needed.

The whole process only takes a few minutes!! Hope this helps.

 

[mooch91]

Thanks guys. I did the adjustment off the deck (not the blades) and then went and measured the blade distances to floor at the front-back and left-right positions. All measurements were within 1/8" of each other. I then raised the back of the deck about 1/8" to give it a bit of a rake, better for striping and a clean cut from what I've been reading.

Now I have an issue with the deck not wanting to latch in the raised position. See new thread...

Thanks again!

 

[djdicetn]

Thanks guys. I did the adjustment off the deck (not the blades) and then went and measured the blade distances to floor at the front-back and left-right positions. All measurements were within 1/8" of each other. I then raised the back of the deck about 1/8" to give it a bit of a rake, better for striping and a clean cut from what I've been reading.

Now I have an issue with the deck not wanting to latch in the raised position. See new thread...

Thanks again!

You should use the blade tips to adjust/level the deck, not the deck shell. Within 1/8" should be OK on the outside blade tips(facing East/West) but it would be better to get them exactly the same. The "normal" pitch is setting the blade tips 1/8"-1/4" lower in the front(facing North/South), like you did(gives balanced cut quality/engine power required). Actually you will notice an improved cut quality(and striping) if you heel the deck which means setting the rear blade tips 1/8"-1/4" lower than the front blade tips(facing North/South). This requires a little more power from the engine but usually any ZTR can handle that. Can't assist with the latch problem....sorry:0(

 

[Micko]

Why did you mess with it in the first place?

Follow the instructions in the manual exactly. Thats what there for! To do it any other way can cause issues like your deck not latching!
The surface your working off needs to be perfectly flat. Any depression or rise will effect the measurement. You can check that by putting water on the surface. Lower spots will pool obviously!

Decide on what tire pressure you want to run before you do anything. Changing pressure even a few psi after setting the deck can change the pitch.

Remember, your setting the deck without you sitting on the machine. Your weight will change the deck pitch slightly along with a full tank of fuel as opposed to empty. Set deck with half tank(s) for an average!

If you want to experiment with deck pitch, stick 12 psi in the drive tires, set your deck as per the manual. If you want to try a flatter deck, reduce the pressure in the tires. If you want more pitch, up the pressure. This is for experimentation only!

I dont think Ive ever heard or read any commercial cutter suggest lower blade tips at the rear of the deck. Decks are not designed to cut that way!
If you want better stripes, stick a rubber flap on the deck or back of the machine! Plenty of designs out there for that kind of thing but the most important thing with a deck is clean cut and great discharge. Anything else can be worked on or improved with mods.

Mooch, take my advice, just get the deck back to spec! Since youve already messed with it, its all you can do now!

 

[djdicetn]

Why did you mess with it in the first place?

Follow the instructions in the manual exactly. Thats what there for! To do it any other way can cause issues like your deck not latching!
The surface your working off needs to be perfectly flat. Any depression or rise will effect the measurement. You can check that by putting water on the surface. Lower spots will pool obviously!

Decide on what tire pressure you want to run before you do anything. Changing pressure even a few psi after setting the deck can change the pitch.

Remember, your setting the deck without you sitting on the machine. Your weight will change the deck pitch slightly along with a full tank of fuel as opposed to empty. Set deck with half tank(s) for an average!

If you want to experiment with deck pitch, stick 12 psi in the drive tires, set your deck as per the manual. If you want to try a flatter deck, reduce the pressure in the tires. If you want more pitch, up the pressure. This is for experimentation only!

I dont think Ive ever heard or read any commercial cutter suggest lower blade tips at the rear of the deck. Decks are not designed to cut that way!
If you want better stripes, stick a rubber flap on the deck or back of the machine! Plenty of designs out there for that kind of thing but the most important thing with a deck is clean cut and great discharge. Anything else can be worked on or improved with mods.

Mooch, take my advice, just get the deck back to spec! Since youve already messed with it, its all you can do now!

I totally agree that user Mooch91 should have not adjusted his deck unless there was an obvious problem, which he does not indicate was the reason. As you stated, Mooch91 should "go back to the drawing board" and follow the specific instructions in his Owner Manual for getting the deck back the way it came from the dealer. However, I am pretty certain that his instructions will elaborate on the pitch(difference in the height of the front/rear blade tips with the blades facing Noth/South). I believe "heeling the deck" is pretty universal, but in response to your comment below is a verbatim excerpt from Page 30 of my Gravely Pro-Turn 100 XDZ Owner Manual of a Note following the deck leveling instructions:

"NOTE: Pitching the front of the blades lower than the rear provides a balance between cut quality and the power needed to cut the grass. Certain cutting conditions require the deck to be pitched with the rear of the blades lower than the front. Heeling the deck this way requires more engine power but can provide better cut quality."

Even though it doesn't specifically mention it in my manual, it's obvious that when you "heel your deck" the rear edge of the deck becomes slightly lower than the rear cutting blade tip which causes a "slight bend" of the remaining grass blades behind the deck therefore it gives a slight striping effect. With the "normal" front lower pitch the grass is cut once by the leading front blade tips(except with mulching blades where the rear re-cuts the clippings downward). When you use the heeling pitch, the front blades cut the grass slightly higher....then the rear blade tips(being slightly lower) cut the remaining grass again. This is what can improve the cut quality when heeling the deck. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)

 

[Micko]

I totally agree that user Mooch91 should have not adjusted his deck unless there was an obvious problem, which he does not indicate was the reason. As you stated, Mooch91 should "go back to the drawing board" and follow the specific instructions in his Owner Manual for getting the deck back the way it came from the dealer. However, I am pretty certain that his instructions will elaborate on the pitch(difference in the height of the front/rear blade tips with the blades facing Noth/South). I believe "heeling the deck" is pretty universal, but in response to your comment below is a verbatim excerpt from Page 30 of my Gravely Pro-Turn 100 XDZ Owner Manual of a Note following the deck leveling instructions:

"NOTE: Pitching the front of the blades lower than the rear provides a balance between cut quality and the power needed to cut the grass. Certain cutting conditions require the deck to be pitched with the rear of the blades lower than the front. Heeling the deck this way requires more engine power but can provide better cut quality."

Even though it doesn't specifically mention it in my manual, it's obvious that when you "heel your deck" the rear edge of the deck becomes slightly lower than the rear cutting blade tip which causes a "slight bend" of the remaining grass blades behind the deck therefore it gives a slight striping effect. With the "normal" front lower pitch the grass is cut once by the leading front blade tips(except with mulching blades where the rear re-cuts the clippings downward). When you use the heeling pitch, the front blades cut the grass slightly higher....then the rear blade tips(being slightly lower) cut the remaining grass again. This is what can improve the cut quality when heeling the deck. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)

I looked up his manual for deck levelling before I posted last night, and I didnt see where it said what pitch that method would create. I may of missed it but I would assume 1/8 or 1/4 as thats pretty standard. It doesnt really matter as thats where Hustler recommends having the deck set. Remember, he changed it just a little and it effected the latching!

You are correct in that when checking the deck for pitch, the blades should be turned north, south. For level, east west. And measure the tip of the cutting edge on the blade on a super level surface.
There is a measuring tool from John Deere that makes measuring much easier than using a ruler? Amazon.com : John Deere Mower Deck Leveling Gauge #AM130907 : Walk Behind Lawn Mowers : Patio, Lawn & Garden

As far as "heeling the deck", you dont mention the "certain conditions". Like I said, Ive never heard of a contractor ever doing that, on purpose. Ive had 3 commercial Hustlers and never read that in any manual, again, I may of missed it but I dont think so! Perhaps you could research it and show me how universal it is! Have you actually done it? I would like to see some video of normal pitch v's heeled deck cutting 4" of lush grass!

You keep mentioning stripes. The most important thing is a clean cut. Stripes should be secondary as they can always be improved upon but mods later.

 

[djdicetn]

As far as "heeling the deck", you dont mention the "certain conditions". Like I said, Ive never heard of a contractor ever doing that, on purpose. Ive had 3 commercial Hustlers and never read that in any manual, again, I may of missed it but I dont think so! Perhaps you could research it and show me how universal it is! Have you actually done it? I would like to see some video of normal pitch v's heeled deck cutting 4" of lush grass!

You keep mentioning stripes. The most important thing is a clean cut. Stripes should be secondary as they can always be improved upon but mods later.

Well........no, I didn't research it aside from many users on this and other forums discussing it. And when I saw that in my Gravely Owner manual I just figured that Gravely didn't "pull it out of their hat". I didn't say "Certain cutting conditions", they did. I'm not going to visit my best friend(Google:0), but I will contact Ariens Customer Support and ask them if they can add some clarity to the "Certain cutting conditions" and report back what they say. I will also ask them to confirm/deny that this(heeling the deck) adds a slight striping effect to the cut, although I already know enough about plane geometry to figure that one out:0)

I'm pretty certain that several of the professionals on this forum(user Carscw comes to mind) recommend heeling the deck so at least some contractors know about doing this.

I don't think anyone would complain about having some mild stripes on their lawn as many commercial ZTR's do this naturally because of their deck design so people see it on lawns cut but contractors all the time and it is becoming more and more popular.

 

[Micko]

Well........no, I didn't research it aside from many users on this and other forums discussing it. And when I saw that in my Gravely Owner manual I just figured that Gravely didn't "pull it out of their hat". I didn't say "Certain cutting conditions", they did. I'm not going to visit my best friend(Google:0), but I will contact Ariens Customer Support and ask them if they can add some clarity to the "Certain cutting conditions" and report back what they say. I will also ask them to confirm/deny that this(heeling the deck) adds a slight striping effect to the cut, although I already know enough about plane geometry to figure that one out:0)

I'm pretty certain that several of the professionals on this forum(user Carscw comes to mind) recommend heeling the deck so at least some contractors know about doing this.

I don't think anyone would complain about having some mild stripes on their lawn as many commercial ZTR's do this naturally because of their deck design so people see it on lawns cut but contractors all the time and it is becoming more and more popular.

I understand that you were quoting from the gravely manual, I would just like to know what the "certain conditions" are. It would be great if you could find that out! I wouldnt mind betting it has something to do with mulching but thats only a guess. If mower manufacturers really wanted us to heel the deck, they would come like that from the factory!

Heeling the deck may add more to the striping look but as I said, the stripe should be secondary to the cut. I also understand that the grass will, or at least some of it be cut twice. ie, front and back but, what happens between the blades. I would hazard a guess and say you'll increase the risk of a tear rather than a cut, deck build up, choking, clumping etc.

But think about it, if grass is getting cut at the back of the deck, where do those clippings go? They will circulate around each chamber, get sent from the discharge side to the trim side. It already happens with a normal deck setting but if lower in back, its going to add to it. Clippings will be chopped up more which can be a good thing but if there is moisture, you will most likely get a mash and more deck build up which create more problems.

There are thousands upon thousands of lawn cutters out there. I'd bet the amount of guys that heel the deck would be barely registrable as a percentage.

As far as needing a commercial deck to create stripes, or get better ones, thats not necessarily true. Ive seen stripes from JD lawn tractors that are up there with the best of them!
To heel a deck just for a little more stripe seems well, crazy to me! Stick a roller or rubber flap on the back of the deck if its important to you! Remember, some grass types just stripe better also, even some commercial decks stripe better than others.

I went searching on the subject on this forum and came across this

SandburRanch,
You touched on what was going to be my "follow-up" question(be careful........reading minds like mine can be dangerous:0)
Does the front-lower pitch and rear-lower pitch have significantly different clipping discharge efficiency???
In other words, with my deck set by the dealer at delivery with the front of the blades 1/8 inch lower than the back this has resulted in VERY efficient grass clipping discharge(without any trace of "piles of grass clippings" even without a "mulch kit")......AND......absolutely no grass clipping/dirt "buildup" underneath the deck that requires cleaning the deck belly before the next mowing. If I changed the blade pitch with the back side tip of the blades lower than the front and the cut of my yard looked significantly "smoother"......BUT.....there were heaps of grass clippings all over the yard and/OR a buildup underneath the deck that required scraping or washing out before mowing again this would NOT be a good trade-off in my opinion. I would rather have a less "pro-cut" look to my lawn than to have to deal with piles of grass clippings in the yard or cleaning underneath the deck after each mowing(something I do NOT miss about my lawn tractor with the 54" stamped deck:0)

Seems to me you were perfectly happy with the way it cut, or should of been! I cant figure out if you tried with the "heeled" setting or not so, did you? And is what you wrote here what happened? If so, its basically describing what I would expect!

From my research on here, seems you bring up "heeling" quite often. Have you actually done it yourself yet?