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starter relay question
#1
C
cambre
C
cambre
Looks like the relay next to the solenoid controls the safety switches ( I don't want any safety switches) so I really don't need the relay. Is this right? I wired most of the ignition switch today, all but the magneto. I had to stop to do another job. I will put magneto wire on tomorrow. If every thing works I will let the forum know. If it doesn't work I'm going to get my backhoe and did a hole and bury that sucker.
#2
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
No relay required. Just the wire from the battery to the starter solenoid, and from the solenoid to the starter, with your other wires coming from the key switch.
#3
cpurvis
cpurvis
Better dig two holes--one for the mower and a big one for the day when the backhoe gives you trouble.
I doubt that the starter relay does any switching except for the starter itself. Other things may draw power from there, but that's only because it's a convenient place to tap into a 12 V. power source.
All your questions can be answered if you can get your hands on a wiring diagram.
I doubt that the starter relay does any switching except for the starter itself. Other things may draw power from there, but that's only because it's a convenient place to tap into a 12 V. power source.
All your questions can be answered if you can get your hands on a wiring diagram.
#4
reynoldston
As I remember I said that in a earlier post. I also said that all a relay is a electric switch, so yes do away with the relay. It also seems like someone told you how to wire the solenoid in a earlier post. best of luck:thumbsup:
reynoldston
All your questions can be answered if you can get your hands on a wiring diagram.
As I remember I said that in a earlier post. I also said that all a relay is a electric switch, so yes do away with the relay. It also seems like someone told you how to wire the solenoid in a earlier post. best of luck:thumbsup:
#5
C
cambre
Thanks cpurvis: I got a laugh out of your answer. I may dig 3 holes, one for me to. The reason I asked about the relay is because I did look at the wiring diagram for the umpteenth time. As far as I could tell one wire off of the relay went to the starter wire side of the solenoid. The other relay terminal wire went through the wire harness bundle and went to safety switches which I don't use because I don't cut grass with the mower, I use it to tow a wagon on the property to pick up rocks & limbs & to set gopher & mole traps & to feed the fish in my pond, etc. That's why I thought I may not need the relay.
C
cambre
Better dig two holes--one for the mower and a big one for the day when the backhoe gives you trouble.
I doubt that the starter relay does any switching except for the starter itself. Other things may draw power from there, but that's only because it's a convenient place to tap into a 12 V. power source.
All your questions can be answered if you can get your hands on a wiring diagram.
Thanks cpurvis: I got a laugh out of your answer. I may dig 3 holes, one for me to. The reason I asked about the relay is because I did look at the wiring diagram for the umpteenth time. As far as I could tell one wire off of the relay went to the starter wire side of the solenoid. The other relay terminal wire went through the wire harness bundle and went to safety switches which I don't use because I don't cut grass with the mower, I use it to tow a wagon on the property to pick up rocks & limbs & to set gopher & mole traps & to feed the fish in my pond, etc. That's why I thought I may not need the relay.
#6
C
cambre
Yes you said that reynoldston, I didn't remember about doing away with the relay. I work on this thing when I get a chance. I have to stop and do some other things and when I get back to it (sometimes its the next day or longer) I forget where I was. Like I said wiring is something I'm not good at but trying to learn. The people on the forum have been great to help me. I thank everyone.
C
cambre
As I remember I said that in a earlier post. I also said that all a relay is a electric switch, so yes do away with the relay. It also seems like someone told you how to wire the solenoid in a earlier post. best of luck:thumbsup:
Yes you said that reynoldston, I didn't remember about doing away with the relay. I work on this thing when I get a chance. I have to stop and do some other things and when I get back to it (sometimes its the next day or longer) I forget where I was. Like I said wiring is something I'm not good at but trying to learn. The people on the forum have been great to help me. I thank everyone.
#7
C
cambre
Thanks ILENGINE.
C
cambre
No relay required. Just the wire from the battery to the starter solenoid, and from the solenoid to the starter, with your other wires coming from the key switch.
Thanks ILENGINE.
#8
reynoldston
reynoldston
I am going to take a guess you are looking at a four post relay. The terminals should be numbered. 86 and 85 turns your relay on and off. 87 and 30 they are the switch part. So when you put 12 volt to 86 and ground to 85 it like flipping a manual switch on and when to take the 12 volt away from 86 its turns the switch off. I would say the relay is being told to work off the safety switches so you shouldn't need it. Another thing you will see on relays is no normally open meaning the switch is off and you will see nc normally closed meaning the switch is on. I hope this explains a four post relay better.
#9
C
cambre
Thanks reynoldston, The mower I,m working on has a two post relay but I do have four post relays on other equipment. Your answer will come in handy for them.
C
cambre
I am going to take a guess you are looking at a four post relay. The terminals should be numbered. 86 and 85 turns your relay on and off. 87 and 30 they are the switch part. So when you put 12 volt to 86 and ground to 85 it like flipping a manual switch on and when to take the 12 volt away from 86 its turns the switch off. I would say the relay is being told to work off the safety switches so you shouldn't need it. Another thing you will see on relays is no normally open meaning the switch is off and you will see nc normally closed meaning the switch is on. I hope this explains a four post relay better.
Thanks reynoldston, The mower I,m working on has a two post relay but I do have four post relays on other equipment. Your answer will come in handy for them.
#10
reynoldston
I guess never too old to learn. The only two terminal relay I have ever come across is a flasher that flashes a light. I have no idea what you have or know how or what a two terminal relay does or how it even works other then flashes a light. Maybe someone can explain this one to me? I have seen relays with many as 6 terminals called a cube relay but the two terminal relay has me confused. Could you be looking at a circuit breaker and not a relay?:confused2:
reynoldston
Thanks reynoldston, The mower I,m working on has a two post relay but I do have four post relays on other equipment. Your answer will come in handy for them.
I guess never too old to learn. The only two terminal relay I have ever come across is a flasher that flashes a light. I have no idea what you have or know how or what a two terminal relay does or how it even works other then flashes a light. Maybe someone can explain this one to me? I have seen relays with many as 6 terminals called a cube relay but the two terminal relay has me confused. Could you be looking at a circuit breaker and not a relay?:confused2:
#11
C
cambre
It only has two terminals and mower has only one relay. I have four terminal relays on my Kubota back hoe. I don't know about my Grasshopper. I did get the Kohler I am trying to rewire to crank using the key ignition so with every ones help I am making progress. My next step is to locate magneto kill wire. There are two magnetos on the engine and looks like about six wires going to each. I take it that the ground terminal on the ignition switch goes to the kill wire on the mag. Maybe I'm about to "Get-er-done", thanks to all.
C
cambre
I guess never too old to learn. The only two terminal relay I have ever come across is a flasher that flashes a light. I have no idea what you have or know how or what a two terminal relay does or how it even works other then flashes a light. Maybe someone can explain this one to me? I have seen relays with many as 6 terminals called a cube relay but the two terminal relay has me confused. Could you be looking at a circuit breaker and not a relay?:confused2:
It only has two terminals and mower has only one relay. I have four terminal relays on my Kubota back hoe. I don't know about my Grasshopper. I did get the Kohler I am trying to rewire to crank using the key ignition so with every ones help I am making progress. My next step is to locate magneto kill wire. There are two magnetos on the engine and looks like about six wires going to each. I take it that the ground terminal on the ignition switch goes to the kill wire on the mag. Maybe I'm about to "Get-er-done", thanks to all.
#12
C
cambre
Could very well be a circuit breaker. I'm not very sharp on electrical parts names. I do know what a light bulb is.
C
cambre
I guess never too old to learn. The only two terminal relay I have ever come across is a flasher that flashes a light. I have no idea what you have or know how or what a two terminal relay does or how it even works other then flashes a light. Maybe someone can explain this one to me? I have seen relays with many as 6 terminals called a cube relay but the two terminal relay has me confused. Could you be looking at a circuit breaker and not a relay?:confused2:
Could very well be a circuit breaker. I'm not very sharp on electrical parts names. I do know what a light bulb is.
#13
reynoldston
As you could see I wasn't buying the two post relay story but who knows maybe something new. Seeing you will admit its a circuit breaker that make a completely different story here. A circuit breaker is a fuse that resets its self when it gets over loaded. NEVER do away with the circuit breaker or fuse. A fuse protects the wires from burning up and by bypassing it you can end up with another fire. It should have a amperage number on it anywhere from 10A to 30A with most of them are 15A or 20A. Never replace a fuse with a higher amperage fuse that what came with the mower.
reynoldston
Could very well be a circuit breaker. I'm not very sharp on electrical parts names. I do know what a light bulb is.
As you could see I wasn't buying the two post relay story but who knows maybe something new. Seeing you will admit its a circuit breaker that make a completely different story here. A circuit breaker is a fuse that resets its self when it gets over loaded. NEVER do away with the circuit breaker or fuse. A fuse protects the wires from burning up and by bypassing it you can end up with another fire. It should have a amperage number on it anywhere from 10A to 30A with most of them are 15A or 20A. Never replace a fuse with a higher amperage fuse that what came with the mower.
#14
C
cambre
Thanks for the answer reynoldston. I will be putting the circuit breaker back on. Also does the ground terminal on the ignition switch go directly to the magneto kill wire? Thanks
C
cambre
As you could see I wasn't buying the two post relay story but who knows maybe something new. Seeing you will admit its a circuit breaker that make a completely different story here. A circuit breaker is a fuse that resets its self when it gets over loaded. NEVER do away with the circuit breaker or fuse. A fuse protects the wires from burning up and by bypassing it you can end up with another fire. It should have a amperage number on it anywhere from 10A to 30A with most of them are 15A or 20A. Never replace a fuse with a higher amperage fuse that what came with the mower.
Thanks for the answer reynoldston. I will be putting the circuit breaker back on. Also does the ground terminal on the ignition switch go directly to the magneto kill wire? Thanks
#15
reynoldston
No It go's to negative. Which can just be the chassis of the mower. I don't know how your ignition switch is marked but I will just give you a generic run down. G is for ground which can be just the frame of the mower, that is if the negative side of the battery go's to the mower frame. M for Mag. go's to the coil primary or small wire to the coil. A for accessory Lights or accessory's you want to operate with the ignition switch. R to the positive wire that go's to voltage regulator to charge the battery. S to one of the small post of the starter solenoid. If you have two small post on this starter solenoid the post go's to the mower chassis or ground. B for battery this go's to the positive side of the battery or + that is red large battery cable. Without me knowing how your ignition switch is marked this is just a generic guess seeing different manufactory might have different letters and this is the very reason the need for a wiring diagram for your year and model mower. Hope this helps you
reynoldston
Thanks for the answer reynoldston. I will be putting the circuit breaker back on. Also does the ground terminal on the ignition switch go directly to the magneto kill wire? Thanks
No It go's to negative. Which can just be the chassis of the mower. I don't know how your ignition switch is marked but I will just give you a generic run down. G is for ground which can be just the frame of the mower, that is if the negative side of the battery go's to the mower frame. M for Mag. go's to the coil primary or small wire to the coil. A for accessory Lights or accessory's you want to operate with the ignition switch. R to the positive wire that go's to voltage regulator to charge the battery. S to one of the small post of the starter solenoid. If you have two small post on this starter solenoid the post go's to the mower chassis or ground. B for battery this go's to the positive side of the battery or + that is red large battery cable. Without me knowing how your ignition switch is marked this is just a generic guess seeing different manufactory might have different letters and this is the very reason the need for a wiring diagram for your year and model mower. Hope this helps you
#16
C
cambre
Again thanks for the help. I know very little about wiring engines as all of you can tell. I can overhaul small engines easily, also use to do auto engines and some diesel work in the oil field. I never did like wiring so never did learn it. Since my wiring harness burnt up on my Kohler and I don't need all the saftey switches any more I decided to try to wire it myself with the help of the good people on this forum. I got the ignition switch working and it cranks the engine. Don't have to jump the solenoid to start it. I'm having trouble finding the kill wire off the mag. bertsmobile1 says M= magneto, the small wire from the coil. G= ground which connects to M when ignition is off. I know all this is plain english to you guys. This is why I asked you if the wire off the mag went to the M terminal on the ignition switch. So does two wires go to the M terminal on the ignition switch? Mag kill wire to M on switch and a ground wire to M on switch? Thanks for the help, you are probably getting tired of my questions.
C
cambre
No It go's to negative. Which can just be the chassis of the mower. I don't know how your ignition switch is marked but I will just give you a generic run down. G is for ground which can be just the frame of the mower, that is if the negative side of the battery go's to the mower frame. M for Mag. go's to the coil primary or small wire to the coil. A for accessory Lights or accessory's you want to operate with the ignition switch. R to the positive wire that go's to voltage regulator to charge the battery. S to one of the small post of the starter solenoid. If you have two small post on this starter solenoid the post go's to the mower chassis or ground. B for battery this go's to the positive side of the battery or + that is red large battery cable. Without me knowing how your ignition switch is marked this is just a generic guess seeing different manufactory might have different letters and this is the very reason the need for a wiring diagram for your year and model mower. Hope this helps you
Again thanks for the help. I know very little about wiring engines as all of you can tell. I can overhaul small engines easily, also use to do auto engines and some diesel work in the oil field. I never did like wiring so never did learn it. Since my wiring harness burnt up on my Kohler and I don't need all the saftey switches any more I decided to try to wire it myself with the help of the good people on this forum. I got the ignition switch working and it cranks the engine. Don't have to jump the solenoid to start it. I'm having trouble finding the kill wire off the mag. bertsmobile1 says M= magneto, the small wire from the coil. G= ground which connects to M when ignition is off. I know all this is plain english to you guys. This is why I asked you if the wire off the mag went to the M terminal on the ignition switch. So does two wires go to the M terminal on the ignition switch? Mag kill wire to M on switch and a ground wire to M on switch? Thanks for the help, you are probably getting tired of my questions.
#17
reynoldston
Now you keep adding to it with the word Kohler. Some Kohler's have what they call a smart spark as well as a ignition module. It would help to know what what you are working on.
reynoldston
Again thanks for the help. I know very little about wiring engines as all of you can tell. I can overhaul small engines easily, also use to do auto engines and some diesel work in the oil field. I never did like wiring so never did learn it. Since my wiring harness burnt up on my Kohler and I don't need all the saftey switches any more I decided to try to wire it myself with the help of the good people on this forum. I got the ignition switch working and it cranks the engine. Don't have to jump the solenoid to start it. I'm having trouble finding the kill wire off the mag. bertsmobile1 says M= magneto, the small wire from the coil. G= ground which connects to M when ignition is off. I know all this is plain english to you guys. This is why I asked you if the wire off the mag went to the M terminal on the ignition switch. So does two wires go to the M terminal on the ignition switch? Mag kill wire to M on switch and a ground wire to M on switch? Thanks for the help, you are probably getting tired of my questions.
Now you keep adding to it with the word Kohler. Some Kohler's have what they call a smart spark as well as a ignition module. It would help to know what what you are working on.
#18
I
ILENGINE
I
ILENGINE
If you add in Kohler spark advance then that now includes additional hot wires to the SAM module as well as the ignition modules themselves.
#19
M
motoman
M
motoman
Cambre, Sometime for self satisfaction pop off the plastic "box" of a relay and you will see they are rather simple. I have also found them surprisingly reliable. You can pop the box on when finished looking. You may know typical price is about $5-$8 on line . These are also readily available at surplus electronics stores online.
#20
C
cambre
Thanks motoman, good info.
C
cambre
Cambre, Sometime for self satisfaction pop off the plastic "box" of a relay and you will see they are rather simple. I have also found them surprisingly reliable. You can pop the box on when finished looking. You may know typical price is about $5-$8 on line . These are also readily available at surplus electronics stores online.
Thanks motoman, good info.
#21
C
cambre
Thanks for your patience. Kohler engine is a 26hp Courage, spec #SV735-0018. It has two ignition modules on the side of the flywheel with no air gap. On the other type mag some people used a credit card to space it with. These modules have no adjustments. They sit next to the flywheel and can't be moved. I know I sound pretty ignorant on this electrical stuff but This is about the best explaining I can do. Please don't give up on me. Thanks again.
C
cambre
If you add in Kohler spark advance then that now includes additional hot wires to the SAM module as well as the ignition modules themselves.
Thanks for your patience. Kohler engine is a 26hp Courage, spec #SV735-0018. It has two ignition modules on the side of the flywheel with no air gap. On the other type mag some people used a credit card to space it with. These modules have no adjustments. They sit next to the flywheel and can't be moved. I know I sound pretty ignorant on this electrical stuff but This is about the best explaining I can do. Please don't give up on me. Thanks again.
#22
reynoldston
That engine come both ways with or without DSAM ( Digital Spark Advance Module) How many small wires go to the coil one or two? If only one wire it doesn't have DSAM. Yes the air gap has to be set in that engine at .012 with a feel gage not a business card.
reynoldston
Thanks for your patience. Kohler engine is a 26hp Courage, spec #SV735-0018. It has two ignition modules on the side of the flywheel with no air gap. On the other type mag some people used a credit card to space it with. These modules have no adjustments. They sit next to the flywheel and can't be moved. I know I sound pretty ignorant on this electrical stuff but This is about the best explaining I can do. Please don't give up on me. Thanks again.
That engine come both ways with or without DSAM ( Digital Spark Advance Module) How many small wires go to the coil one or two? If only one wire it doesn't have DSAM. Yes the air gap has to be set in that engine at .012 with a feel gage not a business card.
#23
C
cambre
Thanks for answering reynoldston. I have set many coils with a feeler gauge. This engine has two coils with no settings. They can't be moved. I used the credit card for example to say I did not have that kind of coil. When you said DSAM with two wires that made me do some more checking. It has at least 3 wires going to each coil so it must be a DSAI set up. What do you think? If it is a DSAI is the kill wire still the smallest wire?
C
cambre
That engine come both ways with or without DSAM ( Digital Spark Advance Module) How many small wires go to the coil one or two? If only one wire it doesn't have DSAM. Yes the air gap has to be set in that engine at .012 with a feel gage not a business card.
Thanks for answering reynoldston. I have set many coils with a feeler gauge. This engine has two coils with no settings. They can't be moved. I used the credit card for example to say I did not have that kind of coil. When you said DSAM with two wires that made me do some more checking. It has at least 3 wires going to each coil so it must be a DSAI set up. What do you think? If it is a DSAI is the kill wire still the smallest wire?