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Questions on new ZTR
#1
B
Brucebotti
B
Brucebotti
I will begetting my New Toro MX5060 delivered on Wednesday and I have a few questions. I would post this in the Toro Forum, but they are general questions pertaining to the Kawasaki twin motor and the Z-2800 transaxles.
1. The owners manual says to use either some special Toro Hydro Oil or 20w/50 motor oil in the Z-2800 transaxles. Which do you guys use? If you go with the motor oil, do you use conventional or synthetic?
2. The owners manual says to turn the PTO on, and off at full throttle? Is that correct? It seems like that would cause problems. I'm guess it's okay if that's what Toro recommends.
3. The owners manual says to turn the ignition off at full throttle. This definitely seems like it would cause problems.
Thanks in advance for all your assistance.
Bruce
1. The owners manual says to use either some special Toro Hydro Oil or 20w/50 motor oil in the Z-2800 transaxles. Which do you guys use? If you go with the motor oil, do you use conventional or synthetic?
2. The owners manual says to turn the PTO on, and off at full throttle? Is that correct? It seems like that would cause problems. I'm guess it's okay if that's what Toro recommends.
3. The owners manual says to turn the ignition off at full throttle. This definitely seems like it would cause problems.
Thanks in advance for all your assistance.
Bruce
#2
Ric
My owners manual says the Hydraulic oil type is either Toro HYPR-OIL or 15w/50 Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil in the drive and to change the filter with a Hydraulic type of oil filter. It also says that the Toro HYPR-OIL can be changed every 500 hours but if you decide to use the Mobil 1 it needs to be changed every 250 hours. As far as engaging and disengaging the PTO and starting and stopping the mowers I do that at half throttle.
Ric
I will begetting my New Toro MX5060 delivered on Wednesday and I have a few questions. I would post this in the Toro Forum, but they are general questions pertaining to the Kawasaki twin motor and the Z-2800 transaxles.
1. The owners manual says to use either some special Toro Hydro Oil or 20w/50 motor oil in the Z-2800 transaxles. Which do you guys use? If you go with the motor oil, do you use conventional or synthetic?
2. The owners manual says to turn the PTO on, and off at full throttle? Is that correct? It seems like that would cause problems. I'm guess it's okay if that's what Toro recommends.
3. The owners manual says to turn the ignition off at full throttle. This definitely seems like it would cause problems.
Thanks in advance for all your assistance.
Bruce
My owners manual says the Hydraulic oil type is either Toro HYPR-OIL or 15w/50 Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil in the drive and to change the filter with a Hydraulic type of oil filter. It also says that the Toro HYPR-OIL can be changed every 500 hours but if you decide to use the Mobil 1 it needs to be changed every 250 hours. As far as engaging and disengaging the PTO and starting and stopping the mowers I do that at half throttle.
#3
L
LakeRat1
L
LakeRat1
Plus 1 for shuting down the engine at 1/2 throtle, if i have been running hard Cut back to 1/2 let the engine run a few min. the shut it down,
Rat
Rat
#4
B
Brucebotti
Thanks Ric,
I agree with the 1/2 throttle for PTO and engine shutoff..
Which Toro do you have? Its funny that the manual would have a different viscosity than mine. I will likely just go with the Toro HYPR-OIL. I will definitely change it more frequently than 500 hours. Even the 250 hours will be 5 years for me.
Bruce
PS. Thanks LakeRat1 for your confirmation also.
B
Brucebotti
My owners manual says the Hydraulic oil type is either Toro HYPR-OIL or 15w/50 Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil in the drive and to change the filter with a Hydraulic type of oil filter. It also says that the Toro HYPR-OIL can be changed every 500 hours but if you decide to use the Mobil 1 it needs to be changed every 250 hours. As far as engaging and disengaging the PTO and starting and stopping the mowers I do that at half throttle.
Thanks Ric,
I agree with the 1/2 throttle for PTO and engine shutoff..
Which Toro do you have? Its funny that the manual would have a different viscosity than mine. I will likely just go with the Toro HYPR-OIL. I will definitely change it more frequently than 500 hours. Even the 250 hours will be 5 years for me.
Bruce
PS. Thanks LakeRat1 for your confirmation also.
#5
Ric
I have the Toro Grandstand and it runs pumps and wheel motors. Yours are Hydrostatic drives but if you want funny or just weird, My Z-force 48" ZTR runs the 2800 drives and the manual calls for regular 15w/40 oil. I use the Shell Heavy Duty RoTella-T. Explain that one.
Ric
Thanks Ric,
I agree with the 1/2 throttle for PTO and engine shutoff..
Which Toro do you have? Its funny that the manual would have a different viscosity than mine. I will likely just go with the Toro HYPR-OIL. I will definitely change it more frequently than 500 hours. Even the 250 hours will be 5 years for me.
Bruce
PS. Thanks LakeRat1 for your confirmation also.
I have the Toro Grandstand and it runs pumps and wheel motors. Yours are Hydrostatic drives but if you want funny or just weird, My Z-force 48" ZTR runs the 2800 drives and the manual calls for regular 15w/40 oil. I use the Shell Heavy Duty RoTella-T. Explain that one.
#6
B
Brucebotti
Ric,
That does seem pretty bizarre:confused2:
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
I have the Toro Grandstand and it runs pumps and wheel motors. Yours are Hydrostatic drives but if you want funny or just weird, My Z-force 48" ZTR runs the 2800 drives and the manual calls for regular 15w/40 oil. I use the Shell Heavy Duty RoTella-T. Explain that one.
Ric,
That does seem pretty bizarre:confused2:
Bruce
#7
djdicetn
I don't know what kind of lubricant the Toro Hydro Oil is and I try to steer clear of the synthetic-vs-regular oil back-and-forthes........but the ZT-2800 is a HydroGear integrated hydro tranny and I'm 99.999% sure that HydroGear recommends 20w50 motor oil for all of their integrated trannies. I'm sure other lubes will work, but I'll most likely stay with 20w50 in my ZT-3400 trannies until my Gravely is no longer under warranty(and probably won't change then:0)
djdicetn
I will begetting my New Toro MX5060 delivered on Wednesday and I have a few questions. I would post this in the Toro Forum, but they are general questions pertaining to the Kawasaki twin motor and the Z-2800 transaxles.
1. The owners manual says to use either some special Toro Hydro Oil or 20w/50 motor oil in the Z-2800 transaxles. Which do you guys use? If you go with the motor oil, do you use conventional or synthetic?
2. The owners manual says to turn the PTO on, and off at full throttle? Is that correct? It seems like that would cause problems. I'm guess it's okay if that's what Toro recommends.
3. The owners manual says to turn the ignition off at full throttle. This definitely seems like it would cause problems.
Thanks in advance for all your assistance.
Bruce
I don't know what kind of lubricant the Toro Hydro Oil is and I try to steer clear of the synthetic-vs-regular oil back-and-forthes........but the ZT-2800 is a HydroGear integrated hydro tranny and I'm 99.999% sure that HydroGear recommends 20w50 motor oil for all of their integrated trannies. I'm sure other lubes will work, but I'll most likely stay with 20w50 in my ZT-3400 trannies until my Gravely is no longer under warranty(and probably won't change then:0)
#8
Ric
I agree it is bizarre but that's what it says and that's what they told me at the shop to use and my 2800's have right at 700 hrs so if they blew up today I couldn't complain.
Ric
Ric,
That does seem pretty bizarre:confused2:
Bruce
I agree it is bizarre but that's what it says and that's what they told me at the shop to use and my 2800's have right at 700 hrs so if they blew up today I couldn't complain.
#9
djdicetn
IMHO all synthetics will "meet or exceed the manufacturer's recommended requirements"......the problem I have with changing to them from my regular motor oil is (1)the cost of them exceed my monetary allowance for lubricants...and (2)I don't trust any lubricant enough to feel comfortable changing it after twice(or three times) the hours/mileage that the engine manufacturer recommends between oil changes. I'm going to change my car/truck every 3,000 miles anyway and my lawn mower every 50 hours anyway so it just boils down to how much is it going to cost me. Now if I was "lazy" and refused to change the oil in my car/truck except every 10,000 miles and my lawn mower every 150 hours.....I had "better" put a good synthetic in it cause regular motor oil just won't hold up that long. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)
djdicetn
I agree it is bizarre but that's what it says and that's what they told me at the shop to use and my 2800's have right at 700 hrs so if they blew up today I couldn't complain.
IMHO all synthetics will "meet or exceed the manufacturer's recommended requirements"......the problem I have with changing to them from my regular motor oil is (1)the cost of them exceed my monetary allowance for lubricants...and (2)I don't trust any lubricant enough to feel comfortable changing it after twice(or three times) the hours/mileage that the engine manufacturer recommends between oil changes. I'm going to change my car/truck every 3,000 miles anyway and my lawn mower every 50 hours anyway so it just boils down to how much is it going to cost me. Now if I was "lazy" and refused to change the oil in my car/truck except every 10,000 miles and my lawn mower every 150 hours.....I had "better" put a good synthetic in it cause regular motor oil just won't hold up that long. That's my story and I'm sticking to it:0)
#10
B
Brucebotti
Djdicetn,
At least with the hydros I have time to research before the first change. I will likely go with the Toro recommendation, at least until thewarrantee is over. The oil and filter I will change once a year and use conventional oil. I will likely put on about 25 - 40 hrs per year.
Thanks,
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
I don't know what kind of lubricant the Toro Hydro Oil is and I try to steer clear of the synthetic-vs-regular oil back-and-forthes........but the ZT-2800 is a HydroGear integrated hydro tranny and I'm 99.999% sure that HydroGear recommends 20w50 motor oil for all of their integrated trannies. I'm sure other lubes will work, but I'll most likely stay with 20w50 in my ZT-3400 trannies until my Gravely is no longer under warranty(and probably won't change then:0)
Djdicetn,
At least with the hydros I have time to research before the first change. I will likely go with the Toro recommendation, at least until thewarrantee is over. The oil and filter I will change once a year and use conventional oil. I will likely put on about 25 - 40 hrs per year.
Thanks,
Bruce
#11
Ric
The problem with me waiting until the Warranty runs out is I have a 5 year or 1200 hour Warranty which ever come first. I've got a total of 8 months worth of use on the GS and have 253 hours, I'm due for my 50hr oil change but I'm waiting until the 500 hrs for the Hydros and going to go to the 15w/50 Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil and start changing every 250 hours.
Ric
Djdicetn,
At least with the hydros I have time to research before the first change. I will likely go with the Toro recommendation, at least until the warranty is over. The oil and filter I will change once a year and use conventional oil. I will likely put on about 25 - 40 hrs per year.
Thanks,
Bruce
The problem with me waiting until the Warranty runs out is I have a 5 year or 1200 hour Warranty which ever come first. I've got a total of 8 months worth of use on the GS and have 253 hours, I'm due for my 50hr oil change but I'm waiting until the 500 hrs for the Hydros and going to go to the 15w/50 Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil and start changing every 250 hours.
#12
B
Brucebotti
Ric,
Sounds like a good plan. That's quite a warrantee. Must be a great machine if they stand behind it like that.
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
The problem with me waiting until the Warranty runs out is I have a 5 year or 1200 hour Warranty which ever come first. I've got a total of 8 months worth of use on the GS and have 253 hours, I'm due for my 50hr oil change but I'm waiting until the 500 hrs for the Hydros and going to go to the 15w/50 Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil and start changing every 250 hours.
Ric,
Sounds like a good plan. That's quite a warrantee. Must be a great machine if they stand behind it like that.
Bruce
#13
B
Brucebotti
B
Brucebotti
Well, I received my Toro MX5060 mower yesterday afternoon. I will give a 5-star rating to Mowersource.com and FedEx Freight. The mower arrived in impeccable condition. The most difficult part was getting it off the pallets. There was a 5x8 foot pallet that the mower was on. This was then stacked on a 40x48 inch shipping pallet. After a few hours with an engine hoist, floor jack, hammer, pry bar, and a sawzall, I was all set. As someone on this site said, there was enough lumber to build a house in Haiti..:laughing:
I was however, a little upset with Toro. They are minor, but upsetting. I wasn't able to try out my new "baby". I checked the hydraulic oil level, and there was none to be seen in the expansion reservoir. I decided to call Toro to find out what they used at the factory since the manual says to use Toro HYPR-OIL 500 or 20w/50 motor oil. First of all, there is no number listed in the manual to call to anwer any questions. I went on their website and called a service # that was listed. The recording said that the # was only for authorized dealers and service providers. I stayed on the line and finally got someone to talk to. When I asked him which lubricant they used, he said he didn't know. When I asked if he could find out, he told me that nobody knew...:thumbdown:. To top off the tank, he said to use either one. When I told him that I didn't want to chance mixing different fluids, he said "don't worry, its under warrantee. When I told him I didn't like that option, he said to drain the hydros and replace the filters and fluid with whichever one I felt that I wanted to use. After giving up on him, I called the local dealer. He said that he wasn't sure either, but that he had the HYPR-OIL in stock. I loosened one of the fill plugs on one of the drives. Since the fluid is blue, I believe that it is the Toro HYPR-Oil. Any motor oil I have ever used is an amber color. I'll pick up a quart today, and pray that it is blue.
The other less annoying issue is with the tire pressure in the front casters. For the rear, the manual says 12psi. For the front it says "refer to the maximum pressure suggested by the manufacturer on the sidewall". The sidewall says the maximum pressure is 36psi. This is clearly too high. They were set at 22psi when I got it which still seems too high. I'll likely go with 13 psi which is what the Exmark Quest 50 states in its manual. This mower and manual, are nearly identical, and they have the same casters/tires.
Sorry for being so long winded and nit-picky, but I want to drive my baby, and I also want it to last a long time. I know in a few days I'll be laughing about all this and loving my Toro.
Thanks,
Bruce
I was however, a little upset with Toro. They are minor, but upsetting. I wasn't able to try out my new "baby". I checked the hydraulic oil level, and there was none to be seen in the expansion reservoir. I decided to call Toro to find out what they used at the factory since the manual says to use Toro HYPR-OIL 500 or 20w/50 motor oil. First of all, there is no number listed in the manual to call to anwer any questions. I went on their website and called a service # that was listed. The recording said that the # was only for authorized dealers and service providers. I stayed on the line and finally got someone to talk to. When I asked him which lubricant they used, he said he didn't know. When I asked if he could find out, he told me that nobody knew...:thumbdown:. To top off the tank, he said to use either one. When I told him that I didn't want to chance mixing different fluids, he said "don't worry, its under warrantee. When I told him I didn't like that option, he said to drain the hydros and replace the filters and fluid with whichever one I felt that I wanted to use. After giving up on him, I called the local dealer. He said that he wasn't sure either, but that he had the HYPR-OIL in stock. I loosened one of the fill plugs on one of the drives. Since the fluid is blue, I believe that it is the Toro HYPR-Oil. Any motor oil I have ever used is an amber color. I'll pick up a quart today, and pray that it is blue.
The other less annoying issue is with the tire pressure in the front casters. For the rear, the manual says 12psi. For the front it says "refer to the maximum pressure suggested by the manufacturer on the sidewall". The sidewall says the maximum pressure is 36psi. This is clearly too high. They were set at 22psi when I got it which still seems too high. I'll likely go with 13 psi which is what the Exmark Quest 50 states in its manual. This mower and manual, are nearly identical, and they have the same casters/tires.
Sorry for being so long winded and nit-picky, but I want to drive my baby, and I also want it to last a long time. I know in a few days I'll be laughing about all this and loving my Toro.
Thanks,
Bruce
#14
Ric
The problems you described are problems that would have been resolved at the dealer before delivery and are some of the problems that come with buying online or ordering a mower. As Far as your front tire pressure goes I'd stick with the 22 lbs. Most front tire pressures run between 20 and 25 lbs on most mowers. The manual for my CC says the same. As far as the hypr-oil goes I wouldn't do anything with that until you run the machine and get the drives hot because your oil will expand with heat and fill the reservoir to the proper level when it cools off it will draw itself down to the proper level in the reservoir, I'd try letting it adjust it self before I'd start adding or changing things, my 2800s did the same thing. If you should find there is still no oil in the reservoir after that just add your oil to the reservoir full mark and let it adjust itself. Remember to always adjust the reservoir oil when cold. It only took me one time to adjust mine.
Ric
Well, I received my Toro MX5060 mower yesterday afternoon. I will give a 5-star rating to Mowersource.com and FedEx Freight. The mower arrived in impeccable condition. The most difficult part was getting it off the pallets. There was a 5x8 foot pallet that the mower was on. This was then stacked on a 40x48 inch shipping pallet. After a few hours with an engine hoist, floor jack, hammer, pry bar, and a sawzall, I was all set. As someone on this site said, there was enough lumber to build a house in Haiti..:laughing:
I was however, a little upset with Toro. They are minor, but upsetting. I wasn't able to try out my new "baby". I checked the hydraulic oil level, and there was none to be seen in the expansion reservoir. I decided to call Toro to find out what they used at the factory since the manual says to use Toro HYPR-OIL 500 or 20w/50 motor oil. First of all, there is no number listed in the manual to call to anwer any questions. I went on their website and called a service # that was listed. The recording said that the # was only for authorized dealers and service providers. I stayed on the line and finally got someone to talk to. When I asked him which lubricant they used, he said he didn't know. When I asked if he could find out, he told me that nobody knew...:thumbdown:. To top off the tank, he said to use either one. When I told him that I didn't want to chance mixing different fluids, he said "don't worry, its under warranty. When I told him I didn't like that option, he said to drain the hydros and replace the filters and fluid with whichever one I felt that I wanted to use. After giving up on him, I called the local dealer. He said that he wasn't sure either, but that he had the HYPR-OIL in stock. I loosened one of the fill plugs on one of the drives. Since the fluid is blue, I believe that it is the Toro HYPR-Oil. Any motor oil I have ever used is an amber color. I'll pick up a quart today, and pray that it is blue.
The other less annoying issue is with the tire pressure in the front casters. For the rear, the manual says 12psi. For the front it says "refer to the maximum pressure suggested by the manufacturer on the sidewall". The sidewall says the maximum pressure is 36psi. This is clearly too high. They were set at 22psi when I got it which still seems too high. I'll likely go with 13 psi which is what the Exmark Quest 50 states in its manual. This mower and manual, are nearly identical, and they have the same casters/tires.
Sorry for being so long winded and nit-picky, but I want to drive my baby, and I also want it to last a long time. I know in a few days I'll be laughing about all this and loving my Toro.
Thanks,
Bruce
The problems you described are problems that would have been resolved at the dealer before delivery and are some of the problems that come with buying online or ordering a mower. As Far as your front tire pressure goes I'd stick with the 22 lbs. Most front tire pressures run between 20 and 25 lbs on most mowers. The manual for my CC says the same. As far as the hypr-oil goes I wouldn't do anything with that until you run the machine and get the drives hot because your oil will expand with heat and fill the reservoir to the proper level when it cools off it will draw itself down to the proper level in the reservoir, I'd try letting it adjust it self before I'd start adding or changing things, my 2800s did the same thing. If you should find there is still no oil in the reservoir after that just add your oil to the reservoir full mark and let it adjust itself. Remember to always adjust the reservoir oil when cold. It only took me one time to adjust mine.
#15
B
Brucebotti
Ric,
These are problems that I did expect since I was not purchasing through a dealer. I was more upset with the lack of information from Toro and their inability to answer what I think is a simple question. I'm still very pleased with my purchase.
I chickened out and purchased a quart of the special Toro Hypr-Oil. It only took about 4 ounces, and it made me feel better. I purged the hydros but it doesn't appear that it was necessary. I'll look at the tank again tomorrow morning when the oil is cold.
I still have a few things to look at. It pulls slightly to the left. Also, when you put it in neutral, it creeps slightly. I see where to adjust it, I'm just not exactly sure how. I do remember seeing a thread somewhere here on the forum. Before I do anything, I'll run it for a while.
I did drive it around the lawn for about 15 minutes. Hopefully I'll get better. I'm okay on a straightaway, but get a little freaked out when I get close to something. I keep reaching for a brake pedal. Thank God the Toro has the high and low range...:laughing:
Thanks,
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
The problems you described are problems that would have been resolved at the dealer before delivery and are some of the problems that come with buying online or ordering a mower. As Far as your front tire pressure goes I'd stick with the 22 lbs. Most front tire pressures run between 20 and 25 lbs on most mowers. The manual for my CC says the same. As far as the hypr-oil goes I wouldn't do anything with that until you run the machine and get the drives hot because your oil will expand with heat and fill the reservoir to the proper level when it cools off it will draw itself down to the proper level in the reservoir, I'd try letting it adjust it self before I'd start adding or changing things, my 2800s did the same thing. If you should find there is still no oil in the reservoir after that just add your oil to the reservoir full mark and let it adjust itself. Remember to always adjust the reservoir oil when cold. It only took me one time to adjust mine.
Ric,
These are problems that I did expect since I was not purchasing through a dealer. I was more upset with the lack of information from Toro and their inability to answer what I think is a simple question. I'm still very pleased with my purchase.
I chickened out and purchased a quart of the special Toro Hypr-Oil. It only took about 4 ounces, and it made me feel better. I purged the hydros but it doesn't appear that it was necessary. I'll look at the tank again tomorrow morning when the oil is cold.
I still have a few things to look at. It pulls slightly to the left. Also, when you put it in neutral, it creeps slightly. I see where to adjust it, I'm just not exactly sure how. I do remember seeing a thread somewhere here on the forum. Before I do anything, I'll run it for a while.
I did drive it around the lawn for about 15 minutes. Hopefully I'll get better. I'm okay on a straightaway, but get a little freaked out when I get close to something. I keep reaching for a brake pedal. Thank God the Toro has the high and low range...:laughing:
Thanks,
Bruce
#16
B
Brucebotti
B
Brucebotti
I mowed the lawn for the first time this afternoon. My learning curve is long. I drove it at 3/4 throttle in low range for most of it. I bumped it up to full throttle (low range) for a bit in some clear areas. I seem to do okay when I don't think about what I am doing. A few more mowings and I should be fine (or at least better).
I absolutely love the mower! The "creeping" issue has disappeared, and the slight pulling seems to be more related to the slope of the lawn than the mower. It leaves the lawn looking great and I don't always have to mow in the same direction like I had to with my Craftsman lawn tractor. I don't know how I took so long to purchase a ZTR:smile:
Bruce
I absolutely love the mower! The "creeping" issue has disappeared, and the slight pulling seems to be more related to the slope of the lawn than the mower. It leaves the lawn looking great and I don't always have to mow in the same direction like I had to with my Craftsman lawn tractor. I don't know how I took so long to purchase a ZTR:smile:
Bruce
#17
Ric
Your MX has the high and low range and my Grandstand has a speed control lever that sets the minimum to maximum ground speed of the machine, it adjust from 3 to 8mph. When the machine or control is set to the max it gives the full response if needed forward and reverse and the opposite. You will find as you use your machine it will improve it's performance with a little use.
Ric
I mowed the lawn for the first time this afternoon. My learning curve is long. I drove it at 3/4 throttle in low range for most of it. I bumped it up to full throttle (low range) for a bit in some clear areas. I seem to do okay when I don't think about what I am doing. A few more mowings and I should be fine (or at least better).
I absolutely love the mower! The "creeping" issue has disappeared, and the slight pulling seems to be more related to the slope of the lawn than the mower. It leaves the lawn looking great and I don't always have to mow in the same direction like I had to with my Craftsman lawn tractor. I don't know how I took so long to purchase a ZTR:smile:
Bruce
Your MX has the high and low range and my Grandstand has a speed control lever that sets the minimum to maximum ground speed of the machine, it adjust from 3 to 8mph. When the machine or control is set to the max it gives the full response if needed forward and reverse and the opposite. You will find as you use your machine it will improve it's performance with a little use.
#18
B
Brucebotti
Ric,
Thank God for the speed control. I'm sure after awhile I'll build up confidence. But, with my aging reflexes and bumpy lawn, full speed on high will likely not happen too often. In the back of my mind I keep thinking of djdicetn's (I think it was him) story of running into his wife's wishing well on his maiden voyage....:laughing:
Bruce
B
Brucebotti
Your MX has the high and low range and my Grandstand has a speed control lever that sets the minimum to maximum ground speed of the machine, it adjust from 3 to 8mph. When the machine or control is set to the max it gives the full response if needed forward and reverse and the opposite. You will find as you use your machine it will improve it's performance with a little use.
Ric,
Thank God for the speed control. I'm sure after awhile I'll build up confidence. But, with my aging reflexes and bumpy lawn, full speed on high will likely not happen too often. In the back of my mind I keep thinking of djdicetn's (I think it was him) story of running into his wife's wishing well on his maiden voyage....:laughing:
Bruce