OK to use synthetic oil ?

[ILENGINE]

That is a good point. How do they justify it right from the start? Could one assume they both work to break in the engine, just one is a bit quicker. They figure many will not even bother to do a break in oil change so they just go with the syn right from the factory and keep everything a bit simpler. I am just musing.

A lot of that thinking about synthetic oil would not allow proper break-in was false. Just the engine manufacturers not committing to the new oils even though a lot of synthetic oils start with the same refined base as the conventional oil they are replacing. Use of conventional oils for the first 50 hours to aid break-in has been removed from the owners manuals. And changing the break-in oil at 5 hours has been eliminated on engines with oil filters,because the break-in debris gets filtered. So the interval is now to go by the first recommended oil change interval so 50-100 hours. Almost all vehicles come from the factory with synthetic oil in the engine. Auto engines don't even have a break-in oil change, and basically never did. My 2011 Ram 1500 uses synthetic oil in everything but the engine. And the reason it doesn't use synthetic in the engine is because the synthetics in the 5w20 oils don't meet the Chrysler oil specs,

Kohler oil change kits are provided by Amsoil. I have run synthetic in everything since new, all Amsoil.

The Kohler synthetic oil change kit sourced from Amsoil and has a 300 hour change interval, which in most cases may be excessive. The old 25 357 06-S conventional oil now has been replaced with 25 357 64-S full synthetic. So Kohler doesn't even offer a conventional oil even outside of the synthetic oil service kit that they are pushing sourced from Amsoil.

 

[tlcstat]

Conventional Oil is paraffin oil and paraffin equals sludge. I don't need to break an engine in with sludge. Plus with modern metallurgy break-in isn't necessary. I use Rotella T6 5w40 In my briggs engines and also in my generator. The difference is in the detergent package. Rotella is a truck engine oil that uses a longer lasting detergent. I have two riders over 10yrs old that run perfect and don't have any of the problems that I read about here. I change the oil every couple of seasons. No sense in buying extended interval oil and over servicing the equipment. Thats it from a truck mechanic's point of view.

 

[ba63]

Just my opinion and I am not going to argue about it because it’s his machine and he can do as he pleases with it but the only real benefit I could understand for wanting to change from conventional to synthetic is if you forget or dislike changing your oil. If your using a decent quality conventional oil and changing it on a regular schedule, why spend more money on the same amount of oil just to say your running synthetic? The only times I have ever switched from conventional to synthetic oil is with older used cars that still ran well but the previous owners failed to change the oil regularly and the crankcase has developed sludge issues. I will temporarily switch to a synthetic because the synthetic additives are great for stripping away sludgy buildup. After a few thousand miles, I switch back to conventional oil and I usually get a few extra oil leaks because the synthetic did such a good job that it stripped away some sludge buildup around weaker seals that it was helping to block oil leaks. I say, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Seems kinda like taking 3-4 extra vitamins every day in hopes you’ll live longer.

 

[kinard]

My TORO zero turn mower has Kawasaki 23 hp engine. 270 hours on it. 10 Years old. Been using CASTROL 10w30 or 20w50 in it, conventional oil. I've been thinking about maybe running synthetic in it this spring. Heck, everything else seems to be running ir. Got any thoughts on that anyone? I don't think I'd want to go down to 5w30 and don't know if synthetic comes in 10w30 or some such.

I think 5W-30 full synthetic would be fine.

 

[skiwithjohn]

I have a 1997 Deere 325 garden tractor with a Kawasaki 17hp single cylinder engine. It has about 1900 hours on it. I have been using Mobil 1 10w30 in it since the first oil change. No problems with it. It does not use any oil. I did have to change the main oil seal on the crankshaft at about 1800 hours and should have changed it a few hundred hours sooner.

 

[TobyU]

To be honest with you and the real world facts... it's not going to matter!
As long as you keep the oil level up and change it somewhat regularly what's in your case once every 2 years would be fine and once every year even more than fine, then the engine is going to outlive the rest of the machine and the hydros etc and any repairs for failures you do have will not be oil related as in low quality of oil or lack of lubrication.
There's a whole lot of strong opinions on synthetic oils and a whole lot of people are in love with the machines and treat them like a collector car or a member of the family etc but the way it really works out, for most people, as I said it won't make a difference.
It will cost you a little more but maybe you'll send your intervals a little longer so you will equal out to be the same and you'll have less time doing it but even if your wallet is a little lighter, it will make you feel better so that's worth it to most people.
But let's be realistic. Your mower is an exact example of what I see from 99 plus percent of my customers.
I say it so many times it's down to almost a sales pitch but I'm not selling anything. Lol
"The average customer plus between 25 and 35 hours a year on their mower unless they mow acreage or more than one lawn or they bag a lot of leaves."
Zero turns get even fewer because despite the claims that they cut your mowing time in half, which they don't, they do speed it up some.
So you have exactly 27 hours a year!!
There could be some disagreement about how many hours these engines should last, or do last but I will tell you that 98% of them that are replaced or deemed to be worn out have plenty of life left in them and are not worn out...but rather they are damaged or they have had a component failure which has nothing to do with oil changes or type of oil.
The fact is the average consumer regardless of what type of mower they have, well typically never see over 400 to 500 hours on it.
It will be replaced before this time either due to age or a needed repair.
I only get a very few that have seven or 800 and occasionally one with 1200 or 1400 hours but then again I don't cater to commercial customers or people with acreage.
Many of these engines are capable of going 2500 plus hours and still not be worn out.
The problems that do happen like head gaskets blowing on Briggs & strattons and valve train issues which happened on both Briggs and Kawasakis too often, have nothing to do with oil or better or worse lubrication etc but rather assembly inconsistencies, the lack of using proper locking mechanisms like a drop of loctite or a lock washer or things valve train but actually had related with slip valve guides or popped valve seats which the vast majority of the time are caused from engines that have overheated because there is massive debris / dirt and oil or nesting or grass build up in the cooling fins so they can't dissipate the heat.
Even though synthetic oil will typically lower the temperature of a machine, it's not going to be enough to prevent a slipped valve guide or a popped valve seat when there is a brick size mass of nesting packed in tight there impeding almost all air flow.
Funny enough, I had a mower that was my pride and joy even though it was old.
You had to breaks vanguard on it which is the best Briggs engine ever made and right up there with Honda and Kawasaki in terms of quality.
I had it for several years and cut much taller grass using it almost as a brush hog instead of a lawn mower so worked it really hard and never had a problem with it.
This is with conventional oil SAE 30.
I switched over to full synthetic and I believe it was Mobil 1 and darn if it didn't slip a valve guide very shortly thereafter!!
Did it cause it? Did it help itto go? I'll never know.
There is a chance that oil was so slippery that it worked its way in there and allowed that five guide to push with less Force even though the heat might have been a little bit lower with the synthetic.
Regardless, I fixed the valve guide and had it back up and running in about an hour because it was on a grasshopper and those things with power taken off both the crankshaft and the top of the flywheel takes a little longer to get the shrouds off...and I went ahead and put the next best thing to synthetic in there.
Valvoline VR1 racing 30 weight.
It has a high zinc content and that's really what I was going for anyways was potential protection from metal to metal contact and it's been running fine ever since with no additional slipped valve guides or problems.
Who knows it would slip another one if I put synthetic back in and still worked it hard like I do because it's got three other guides that are Factory original and untouched.
I'm just going to stick with the VR 1 because it is a great oil.
Now, it's not really the best for long-term use whether that be lots of hours or lots of time but still it's not like it's in a car and the mower doesn't get that much use.

So anyways, knock yourself out but these people putting amsoil in their mowers which I THINK EVERY SINGLE TIME a post of synthetic oil comes up somebody will talk about they only use amsoil and show a picture ad nauseam!!
Yes! Amazon makes some excellent oils and some of them are probably the best synthetics the average person not in the specialty or or oil industry is able to obtain BUT IT'S JUST WAY OVERKILL AND A LOT MORE MONEY!
Any full synthetic brand name you can buy at Walmart, which will probably be your cheapest price, is going to give you anything you could ever hope for innocent so to spend three or four more dollars a quart or even more for amsoil in a lawn mower is simply crazy or if that's offensive to some I'll say it simply wasteful.
Now, as far as the off brands or house brands of full synthetic, they probably aren't quite as good as the popular name brands but they're still leaps and bounds better than a cheap convention oil so you're still getting whatever you're trying to get.
There are a couple of places out there that have some house branded full synthetic made by big rapid little companies that is quite a bit cheaper than what you can buy the brand names for at Walmart in the 5qt jug.
But basically, it's whatever floats your boat because it's all good.
It's far more important to keep the oil at the full mark and check it often!
Low oil damages far too many engines and far more than dirty oil does.

 

[TobyU]

Tell that to the equipment manufacturers that use synthetic straight from the factory in new equipment. Kohler dealers don't even receive conventional oil from their distributors anymore. The conventional Kohler 10w30 supercedes to the full synthetic version.

This is true but there is a big difference in a brand new engine that has been finished at a factory with far better equipment than someone's going to have if they rebuild one or put new rings in one at home.
A factory finish on the cylinders and new Factory build is also far better and advanced than even the best or largest small engine repair shops will have if they rebuild an engine.
So in this case it can speed things up and be beneficial to start off a fresh rebuild with conventional for at least a few hours and then switch over to synthetic.
Works the same with car engines too when people rebuild them or freshen them up.
A whole lot has changed in that world too over the past 25 years..
Let me know who can relate to this.. back in the day we had a three angle valve job done and thought it was the best thing since sliced bread and all that extra horsepower we were getting from it.
Now, if you were to do a three angle valve job on the average newer vehicle, you would end up with a FAR less sealing valve situation!
You would be making it far worse than when it left the factory.
So what is ideal for fresh new Factory built engines is not necessarily, or even often the same or best for a mechanic rebuild engine.

 

[TobyU]

At this point, you’re doing your engine a disservice by not using synthetic oil. It’s a much better product than conventional oil. There is no downside other than cost.

I cannot agree.
When you have a decent quality conventional oil in your machine that is kept at the full mark and is not allowed to get excessively dirty, anything beyond that is overkill.
Hardly ever does a residential customer or homeowner "wear out" an engine because they used it so much and put so many hours on it.
If this were the case and let's say you were getting 2,200 hours out of your engine with conventional oil and it was having oil and ring sealing issues ETC then by switching to synthetic on the same engine when you did it again with a new one, if all things remained equal, you could probably go 2,500 maybe 2,700 but I would expect it to go longer.
BUT the point is that just doesn't happen for 99% and even more of homeowners.
They replaced their machine or engine or have it rebuilt because of some other reason!
It's almost always some other reason..
It's almost never low compression due to the rings or the cylinder walls or scuffing of the pistons etc.
So since these quality of oil failures don't really occur, it doesn't really make that much sense to put an over-the-top higher quality oil in there.
Basically all it does is make people feel better.

 

[TobyU]

I have a Generac 15KW standby generator air cooled with 992cc V twin engine, would it be ok to use the oil mentioned above (Amsoil/Kawasaki) and which one would be better?

Now THIS is an actual or at least potential situation where synthetic oil can be greatly beneficial.
In reality, most people's generators get used very infrequently except for the weekly startup and test that these larger ones have, and when they do actually use them it's only for a few hours until the power comes back on.
But for a whole house generator or any type of generator being used for many hours a day during a long-term power outage, you will quickly exceed the recommended oil change interval!
This is where synthetic can greatly help you and actually give your engine more protection because many people will run a generator 10 to 14 hours a day and some will let one stay on and provide power until it automatically switches back off when the power comes on when it's set up that way.
None of these small engines like this we're designed to go over 100 hours between oil changes and most are under that.
That only gives you a few short days and it's time for an oil change.
Synthetic can certainly increase that interval and not put as much wear and tear on your engine.
Now when you get into diesel engines and such that power some generators, they are designed for much longer use, longer oil change intervals and they go thousands of hours in their lifespan.

 

[TobyU]

I can't imagine why a superior product would be discouraged. I have used full synthetic in my mower (and car) since the first change. Walmart sells synthetic at a great price and it is highly rated.

Because it's overkill and it costs more.
It's just not needed for most situations.
It would be like putting grade 8 bolts in an application that only required standard grade 2.
It would also be like building an engine for your car, go-kart, or any potential application with a ton more horsepower than you need like let's say 50 to 75% more or even double.
You don't need it and you probably can't even use it so why do you need the extra?
In this case it's even more likely to cause problems because if you over build the engine in some situations then the weak link becomes the transmission, drive shaft (s), motor mounts or even the frame or structure.
With synthetics and lawn Care equipment, about the only negative besides the obvious price, can be increased consumption and leakage or seepage.
It's not as common as it used to be but it certainly does still happen.