john deere with kohler cv13 engine, clanging noise?

[fireman9513]

Ive got a cv13 kohler that has a sort of clanging noise as soon as you start it, I thought maybe it was the compression release on the cam but that's not it.
Also, no signs of anything hitting and everything is in perfect order and the inside of the engine is nice and clean.
Any ideas?

 

[ILENGINE]

I suspect what you are hearing is lifter noise, since that engine uses hydraulic lifters. does the noise go away shortly after starting, does is sound like a tapping lifter.

 

[fireman9513]

I suspect what you are hearing is lifter noise, since that engine uses hydraulic lifters. does the noise go away shortly after starting, does is sound like a tapping lifter.

No it actually is more of a rapping, clanging sound, I suspected the compression release but its fine.
Can the lifters possibly get to tight? I'm not sure exactly what's up.

 

[ILENGINE]

If one collapses, and doesn't pump back up with oil pressure, they can rattle pretty good. Have come across a couple of cases where the lifter didn't turn, and the cam lobe would wear a groove in the bottom of the lifter, and they can make a horrible noise to.

On a lot of the CV engines, when you shut it off, you will hear a relatively loud tap when the engine stops, That noise is the lifters collapsing. I think if the compression release on the cam was broke, you wouldn't be able to crank the engine, without kickback, and stopping of the starter on compression stroke.

 

[fireman9513]

If one collapses, and doesn't pump back up with oil pressure, they can rattle pretty good. Have come across a couple of cases where the lifter didn't turn, and the cam lobe would wear a groove in the bottom of the lifter, and they can make a horrible noise to.

On a lot of the CV engines, when you shut it off, you will hear a relatively loud tap when the engine stops, That noise is the lifters collapsing. I think if the compression release on the cam was broke, you wouldn't be able to crank the engine, without kickback, and stopping of the starter on compression stroke.

That's what led me to think compression release, motor does stop on compression stroke but he also has a bad solenoid.
I have another question since you bring up about the lifters collapsing.
If im not mistaken there is no valve adjustment on these engines, the lifters are self adjusting, this engine the valve are tight, like no clearance at all, I took the lifters out and thought that you should be able to push in on the inner part but no go they are tight as all get out!
Do you think that the lifters could be bad? would the valves hit the piston if the lifters are capable of opening the valves to far?
I have yet to pull the head off but that is the only other place I can think of to check.
I should say that when he tries to crank the engine it will stop but once he gets it turning over it doesn't stop on the compression stroke.

 

[ILENGINE]

I don't think they are overinflating. The lifters are really hard to push back down. I cases where I have to collapse the lifters, I wrap a towel around them stick a socket in the open end and then compress them in a vise. If you remove them, most likely you will have to collapse them before reinstallation, otherwise the valves won't close all the way, and it may not start. If you put them back in without compressing, You will have to turn the engine until the valve is open, and then let it sit overnight to self collapse. them do the same with the other valve.

If you have them out, look at the bottom and see if there is a groove worn in it. It is suppose to be flat on the bottom.

Them compression release wil bump the valve off its seat a short distance, right before the TDC of compression stroke.

 

[wjjones]

Hows the flywheel nut have you checked the torque on it?

 

[fireman9513]

Hows the flywheel nut have you checked the torque on it?

that is my next step im gonna pull the flywheel nut and washer and check the key.

 

[fireman9513]

Well today I went to the john deere dealer and talked to the mechanic and showed him the lifters, he said they were bad, im not sure if they are, but I remember when I worked in a mower shop in Tampa back in the 90's, the head mechanic said that when he replaced lifters in kohler engines he used chevy 350 engine lifters, and the mechanic at the JD dealer said the same thing.
So they didn't have any in stock and the parts guy said they were 13.50 each, I went to the auto parts store and the guy pulled out a couple chevy lifters and they were identical, so I bout 2 at 3.49 each and put the motor back together tonight.
I reinstalled the engine on the frame and hooked everything up except I left the blower housing off.
Im through for the weekend and Monday after work I will pull the flywheel nut and check the flywheel key to make sure its not sheared.
I suppose I should have started there first but it really sounded like something was amiss inside the engine.
Im used to working on briggs and Hondas and techumsie engines, when I worked in florida I worked on all the Honda stuff and some of the briggs, these kohlers are new to me, ive used them but have not had to work on them in the past, they usually just last!

 

[fireman9513]

found the problem!!!
I removed the flywheel and the key was fine, so im thinking, only thing left is to pull the head, and when I did I found a shiny ball of metal just larger then a bb on the head!
Also I could see where the ball had been hitting the piston, I took a dremel and got the ball off the head and smoothed it up and then smoothed the piston face up and cleaned it all up and put it back together and it runs just fine.
its hard to imagine that this is what was making the sound I heard but it was.
Thanks to those who helped with ideas and all, I know if this happens again I will look here first.
I am wondering what this is though and need to ask the guy about had he changed the plug and then this happened and he put the old plug back in?
I think it was the end of the plug.