With a new spark plug and new air filter, it sure sounds like a fuel delivery issue, or at least a fuel/air mixture problem. When the mower starts running poorly or dies, double-check for good spark.
The AutoChoke on these mowers uses a spring and expanding wax cylinder to close and open the choke plate. The spring holds it closed when the engine is cold, and as it heats up, wax inside a small cylinder expands, pushing a small rod that forces the choke open. The expansion of the wax is stronger than the spring tension. Sometimes the linkage can bind or is blocked by debris or clippings...
I'd inspect and test the Autochoke and confirm it is working properly, not binding and fully opening / closing the choke plate. Be aware that shutting off the engine before it is fully warmed up can be hard to do with the Autochoke, as it may not get hot enough to force the choke open, and this would make the engine run rich or not run at all. Here's how to test it:
After looking at the pdf. and running the test it certainly seemed like the autochoke WAS binding and not moving freely. I cleaned the entire autochoke apparatus with a brush and compressed air. There was a rather large amount of debris buildup in several places that may not have allowed free movement all the time. After cleaning, the mower started better and did not run at the super high idle mentioned in the original post. Instead it ran at its normal, smooth idle. I allowed it to run for a few minutes but did not mow. So far, this is the best start and idle in over a year.
Are you sure you got the correct carburetor when you replaced it? Got all the governor linkage back in the right place? Air Guide and gasket positions correct?
I am sure I bought the right carb assembly. A really nice guy at "click and save" (in Utah) had me send him the model, serial number, and engine serial number. He then double checked everything and shipped the new carb and gaskets. I did indeed check the installation and it is correct and all bolts are tight.
Inspect the gaskets, and ensure the two long bolts holding on the carburetor and air cleaner are secure.
With a new spark plug and new air filter, it sure sounds like a fuel delivery issue, or at least a fuel/air mixture problem. When the mower starts running poorly or dies, double-check for good spark.
The AutoChoke on these mowers uses a spring and expanding wax cylinder to close and open the choke plate. The spring holds it closed when the engine is cold, and as it heats up, wax inside a small cylinder expands, pushing a small rod that forces the choke open. The expansion of the wax is stronger than the spring tension. Sometimes the linkage can bind or is blocked by debris or clippings...
I'd inspect and test the Autochoke and confirm it is working properly, not binding and fully opening / closing the choke plate. Be aware that shutting off the engine before it is fully warmed up can be hard to do with the Autochoke, as it may not get hot enough to force the choke open, and this would make the engine run rich or not run at all. Here's how to test it:
Are you sure you got the correct carburetor when you replaced it? Got all the governor linkage back in the right place? Air Guide and gasket positions correct?
Inspect the gaskets, and ensure the two long bolts holding on the carburetor and air cleaner are secure.
Hey Robert,
I wanted to give an update on the repairs I made from the suggestions in your post. After thoroughly inspecting and cleaning/adjusting the autochoke system I mowed for approximately 25 minutes today. Everything worked perfectly. In fact, it's easily the best the mower has run in a couple years. Thanks so much for you help!
Excellent. Thanks for the follow-up...a little cleaning and regular service can go a long way. Your VKA should last for a long time.
Hi Robert,
Unfortunately this update is not good. After one short mowing session last week with great success I'm back to the same issues except now they seem to be even worse. I mowed for approximately 20 minutes yesterday and the mower had a discernible audible drop in idle. About 2 minutes later it died. Impossible to restart immediately.
Phil
The plug looks fine, Phil The new carb (probably) eliminates it specifically from a problem, but still may be fuel/choke related, especially with the changes due to engine temp.
But, just to be sure, first do a spark-check when the engine is in a no-start condition, and verify you are getting spark. Note: It's best to do this in a shaded outdoor area where you can see the spark clearly. Also, it is best to have a helper who can hold the flywheel brake lever down while the other person holds the spark plug...PLEASE be aware, whenever the pull-starter is operated on this model, the blades are spinning, so keep hands and feet clear.
If spark is good, then I'd bet it probably is something else going on with the autochoke. While your particular version (K6) of this model does not fit in the range of other versions with possible autochoke issues, it still may obviously have one. If you're able to get the mower started and fully warmed up (at least 5 minutes at FAST throttle), shut it down and remove the air filter cover and filter element. Look inside and see if you can tell if the choke plate is staying open or may be closed (even partially). This indicates there is still something going on with the autochoke, maybe the the mechanical linkage/control or the thermowax cylinder. FYI, the thermowax cylinder must have really good contact to the cylinder head for proper heat transfer and operation.
Now if the choke is fully open when the engine is warm, there is some other issue...without having eyes/ears/hands on it, hard for me to diagnose much further. May need to get it off to a Honda dealer for a full in-person evaluation and inspection.
See this posting for a few more details about the autochoke...this is for an HRX model, but the autochoke is identical...
http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/honda-forum/24972-hrx217hya-new-carb-still-will-not-run.html#post157163
Finally, I'll ask our tech guys for any tips...stand by.
Robert,
Thanks so much for the quick reply. Here's the latest.
I did the spark plug check, it's fine.
At this point the mower will not start at all. Fresh fuel, all aspects of the machine are according to specifications. When cold, choke plate is closed.
What now?!
If this machine goes back to the shop I will have taken it for the fourth time for the same issue. And it'll have to be a different part this time since everything they've 'fixed' before has been replaced. It'll also push my parts and repair bills over the cost of what I've paid for the machine and that doesn't include all the work I've done on it or all the hours I've spent researching and working on it. On top of that, I have only moderate expectations of it getting repaired correctly at the authorized centers.
I really hope some of your tech guys can help me further because I'm very, very close to calling it a day. FYI, I'm in Marietta and I absolutely will bring this machine to Alpharetta TOMORROW if you can do something with it. I'd rather take it to the source and let you guys tear it apart than the authorized service dealers around here.
Phil
Sorry to read of the continuing problems, Phil. At this point, I'd suggest get some official help and contact Honda Customer Relations [ (770) 497-6400 ] to discuss the problems you've had getting the mower repaired correctly at the dealer. They have a number of ways to get it resolved, including discussing with the dealer's service department, having Honda's Techlline staff work on the problem with the dealer, directing you to another dealer, or getting the District Service Manager involved. At the office I'm at here in Alpharetta, we're just that, an office, and don't provide any repair services.
Please keep me posted on the progress.
Supposedly Honda and the service center will communicate between themselves from here on out.
Regardless, the folks at the service center in Roswell were VERY attentive and took copious notes all the way back to when I first started having this issue several years ago. There was no definitive diagnosis but both the thermowax and the auto choke were mentioned. I am looking at 7-10 days lag time.
Yes, your case is officially in the system now and can be tracked/shared by all Honda Customer Relations staff. A weeks sounds about right for this time of year for most shops. They are always slammed in the spring service work.
Thanks for the update and let me know how it works out.
Robert,
(snip-snip)
Since my case is in the Honda computer could someone from Honda contact me? I need some direction on this from Honda about what to do if it fails again. A few weeks back Russell from Honda contacted me and spoke to me briefly. But that was prior to this second trip. I don't want to keep carting this thing 20 miles (one way) to have the service center say they can't find anything wrong with it.
Thanks for your attention Robert.
Phil
Sorry to hear this has not been resolved fully, Phil.
Russell sits a few rows over from me, and is our most senior CR guy. I will ask him to call you back, so please PM me with (1) Phone Number (2) Frame Serial Number (3) Good day/time to call.