Ethanol Education

[Mike_Goad]

Greetings All

This post is about educating people on the issues of ethanol.
I know everyone has their own opinion on fuels and the type of additives to use, if any. They also have a bad rap as "snake oil".
Just to give a little education on ethanol blended fuel.
First off, ethanol is good for the economy, it is a renewable source of fuel, and it is good for the environment. It is not going away. In fact, scientists are looking for new and more cost effective ways to produce ethanol other than from corn. The oil companies say they do not like Ethanol but they really do. Ethanol is a cheap way for them to boost octane.
With that said, ethanol has an evil side as well.
All small engine manufactures say not use any fuel with more than 10% ethanol. If you do, your warranty can be voided. There are several reasons for this.
1. All ethanol has water in it; depending upon the area, the amount can very. Ethanol is hygroscopic which means that it will absorb water from anything including the air. Once it has absorbed enough water, the ethanol and water will fall out of the gas and sit at the bottom of the tank. If that mixture is sucked up by the carburetor while the engine is running, the engine will probably seize up.
2. Another fact about ethanol is that it does not mix with 2-stroke engine oil. In other words, when you mix your oil and gas together for trimmers etc, some of that gas has no lubrication value.
3. The ethanol water mixture is also very corrosive (ph of 3.5-4). It will eat metal, rubber, and plastic parts. Feel the fuel line on your trimmer. Is it soft or hard? Chances are it is hard. This is from the ethanol.
4. When you buy gas, only get what you need for a month as ethanol blended gas will start to go bad after 30 days. Engines will run on gas that is starting to go bad, but it will destroy an engine if ran for long enough time. One tankful may not do it but running several gallons will. The old gas will carbon up the piston/cylinder and on 4-stroke units, it will gum up the valves so that they stick open.
I have processed and denied many warranty claims over the years because of old gas.
5. Ethanol is about 37% oxygen. Carburetors are designed to compensate for this extra oxygen. If higher amounts of ethanol blended fuel is used, the fuel air ratio is now affected and the engine will leaner.

The key is to find a good fuel stabilizer and keep the gas stabilized at all times.
The trick is to know which stabilizer to use as there are so many out there and all them say there products work the best.
Almost all stabilizers use either alcohol or petroleum distillates as the base for their stabilizers. These items burn very dirty in the engine and will carbon up the engine over time. As far as alcohol is concerned, ethanol is also alcohol and we are having issues with that. Why would you want to add more to the gas?

Yes I work for a fuel additive company. But this post is meant to inform people about ethanol.
Yes our products truly do work. So I do not cross any lines, please google Mechanic in a Bottle. You can also send me a private message and I will send you a free sample. I always say that proof is in the pudding.

 

[Lawnboy18]

Nice write up. Very informative.

All tho, I have to say that Ethanol is not green. It takes a lot of land and energy to be produced. Land that we could use for food, etc.

 

[Mad Mackie]

If the entire lower 48 states were corn fields, it would only supply about 10% of the annual demand for gasoline.

 

[RhettWS]

First off, ethanol is good for the economy, it is a renewable source of fuel, and it is good for the environment. It is not going away. In fact, scientists are looking for new and more cost effective ways to produce ethanol other than from corn. The oil companies say they do not like Ethanol but they really do. Ethanol is a cheap way for them to boost octane.

Mike,

I tend to agree with others who posted. While your post is informative, the only thing I would agree with (in the part I quoted) is that scientist are looking for other ways to obtain ethanol. Being a scientist, we're always looking for better ways to do something or answer some question (some are pretty stupid). Having said that, the only reason in my mind to make more ethanol is for drinking. It is not environmentally friendly and likely never will be in the grand scheme of things. Yes is is renewable, but so what. Lots of things are renewable but it does not make them ideal for the purpose at hand. I also seriously doubt that oil companies really like ethanol. Yes, it is a cheap additive,but only because our goof ball government pushes and funds it production. If it was really so great they would make it themselves. Ethanol may actually have its place in fuel, at least for now and it might provide a few minor benefits to an internal combustion engine running cleaner, but for our mower's we just have to deal with it. The sooner it is gone, the better.

Please stick to the evil side of it, except for the ethanol found in my drink. :laughing:

 

[bertsmobile1]

Greetings All

This post is about educating people on the issues of ethanol.
I know everyone has their own opinion on fuels and the type of additives to use, if any. They also have a bad rap as "snake oil".
Just to give a little education on ethanol blended fuel.
First off, ethanol is good for the economy, it is a renewable source of fuel, and it is good for the environment. It is not going away. In fact, scientists are looking for new and more cost effective ways to produce ethanol other than from corn. The oil companies say they do not like Ethanol but they really do. Ethanol is a cheap way for them to boost octane.
With that said, ethanol has an evil side as well.
All small engine manufactures say not use any fuel with more than 10% ethanol. If you do, your warranty can be voided. There are several reasons for this.
1. All ethanol has water in it; depending upon the area, the amount can very. Ethanol is hygroscopic which means that it will absorb water from anything including the air. Once it has absorbed enough water, the ethanol and water will fall out of the gas and sit at the bottom of the tank. If that mixture is sucked up by the carburetor while the engine is running, the engine will probably seize up.
2. Another fact about ethanol is that it does not mix with 2-stroke engine oil. In other words, when you mix your oil and gas together for trimmers etc, some of that gas has no lubrication value.
3. The ethanol water mixture is also very corrosive (ph of 3.5-4). It will eat metal, rubber, and plastic parts. Feel the fuel line on your trimmer. Is it soft or hard? Chances are it is hard. This is from the ethanol.
4. When you buy gas, only get what you need for a month as ethanol blended gas will start to go bad after 30 days. Engines will run on gas that is starting to go bad, but it will destroy an engine if ran for long enough time. One tankful may not do it but running several gallons will. The old gas will carbon up the piston/cylinder and on 4-stroke units, it will gum up the valves so that they stick open.
I have processed and denied many warranty claims over the years because of old gas.
5. Ethanol is about 37% oxygen. Carburetors are designed to compensate for this extra oxygen. If higher amounts of ethanol blended fuel is used, the fuel air ratio is now affected and the engine will leaner.

The key is to find a good fuel stabilizer and keep the gas stabilized at all times.
The trick is to know which stabilizer to use as there are so many out there and all them say there products work the best.
Almost all stabilizers use either alcohol or petroleum distillates as the base for their stabilizers. These items burn very dirty in the engine and will carbon up the engine over time. As far as alcohol is concerned, ethanol is also alcohol and we are having issues with that. Why would you want to add more to the gas?

Yes I work for a fuel additive company. But this post is meant to inform people about ethanol.
Yes our products truly do work. So I do not cross any lines, please google Mechanic in a Bottle. You can also send me a private message and I will send you a free sample. I always say that proof is in the pudding.

I really wish you lot would stick to facts stated honestly and stop adding things that are to say the least slightly speculative or just plain wrong.
You do your cause no good by exagerating and missleading no womder many call all of these prducts snake oil.
If you had done any organic chemistry or had much in the way of experience in any internal combustion repairs you would reaslise just how stupid what you have just written is.

Point No 1 is factually correct then you stick a lump of BS on the end of it which every one knowe is garbage.
Engines do not seize from ingesting water through te fuel system , they just stop and then require a lot of cleaning.

Point No 2 is factually correct in parts. Mineral oil is not soluable ethanol, true which is why we used caster oil in racing engines in the old days. However it is not soluable in modern fuel either and if it was soluable, it could not do the job of lubriating because it would no longer be oil it would be discreet atoms of Hydrogen, Carbon & all the other atoms contained within. Oil forms a fine suspension when mixed with fuel, synthetic oil forms a finner suspension when mixed with fuel which is why it does not smoke.
The second bit is true, come of the fuel going through the carb will have no lubrication which is quiete true, however a lot of the fuel that passes through the carb will have no oil either, that is the nature of a non uniform distribution of suspended oil molecules in fuel which is one of the reasons why two strokes blow blue smoke. Secondly there is generally a lot of condensed oil in the crankcases of two stroke engines, any one who pulls then down can attest to this, particularly with lawnmowers whenr the lower bearing will oft be fully submerged in oil ( well oil diluted by fuel to be accurate ).
So this point is pointless.

point No 3 Ethanol- water is acidic and and is a reducing acid so it will dissolve base metals like aluminium, zinc and brass, all commonly found in carburettors , This is true and alone is the strongest reason for using addatives or better still avoiding ethanol all together.
However ethanol does not eat plastic or rubber, it reacts with some of the elastomers used in some grades of rubber and makes them soft so they break up. In other elastomers, particularly the ones commonly used with neoprene ethanol will get adsorbed into the neoprene causing it to swell and block off pasageways. Eventually it will break down the neoprene and it will become a sticky goo. However it will not touch pollypropelene , polly ethylene and PVC.
The principal reason why fuel lines goes hard is the placticisers & elastomisers are leached out by the fuel itself, ethanol or not.
This process is accelerated greatly by the affect of UV rays, just tha same way as a bucket left out in the sun goes brittle.
If ethanol was making the fuel line hard, it would be harder inside the tank than outside the tank, don't need to Einstein to work out why.

Point No 4 True. Down here fuel is guaranteed for 30 days, from the day it left the refinery not the day you bought it and it starts going off from day 1.
However the rest of that parragraph is speculation pure & simple and the possability of any particular one happening has so many conditions attached to it to make it laughable you may as well told people to watch out for lumps of falling sky.

Point 5 , again true, as atomic weight percentages, ethano is 37% oxygen, towever that Oxygen atom already has a Hydrogen attached to it as it is a Hydroxyl. which is the defining point of any alcahol , the last carbon atom has a Hydrogen and an Hydroxyl on it rather than 2 hydrogens. During combustion that hydroxyl grabs another Hydrogen to become H2O commonly called water and in fact is why ethanol burns COLDER than petrol which is exactly why it was used as a racing fuel till regulations changed in the 60's.
Further more your carburettor works on volume percentages , not atomic weight percentages so it is the VOLUME the oxygen takes that is important , not the weight of the oxygen that is important.
Finally during colder months most fuel companies add substantially more oxygenators that are available from the 10% ethanol.
So it put it very bluntly to the point of being rude running lean from the oxygen in ethanol is pure BS

 

[Mikel1]

Sounds just like a salesman.
Ethanol also evaporates along with water molecules. Fuel also contains additives. There are way too many variables to say exactly how long fuel will last such as humidity, time fuel has spent in gas station tanks, temperatures, how mower or other OPE was stored, etc. My truck regularly has fuel in it for a month. I guess it shouldn't work.

Why aren't all reviews of your product on Amazon at 5 stars since it's so great. You may need to post this to lawnsite as well.

 

[Mad Mackie]

I haven't yet found the perfect fuel additives, but I have found several that work fairly well.
I use Star Tron additive with every fuel container refill. I have a measuring cup that measures down to 1/3 fluid ounce.
As I store fuel and machines in a closed cargo trailer, the internal temps get high in daytime and cool at night time.
With stored fuel, both in the machines and storage jugs, the fuel will start to turn after three weeks if not used up.
I then add Sea Foam to bring the fuel back to usable.
Having had two very dry mowing seasons the last two years and as I mow on a when needed basis, there are periods of up to three weeks when the machines don't get used.
When the fuel gets passed the point, I pour it into my truck.

 

[Carscw]

Here we go with this **** again.
Every few months someone brings this up.
As in the past I still say bull **** that ethanol is the problem.
The problem is cheap made parts and low quality workmanship. Then you have the ones that do no maintenance and blame ethanol.
Then the ones that say look what ethanol did to my carb. Ok prove it.

 

[bertsmobile1]

Here we go with this **** again.
Every few months someone brings this up.
As in the past I still say bull **** that ethanol is the problem.
The problem is cheap made parts and low quality workmanship. Then you have the ones that do no maintenance and blame ethanol.
Then the ones that say look what ethanol did to my carb. Ok prove it.

In winter when all the fire pumps from the volunteer fire fighters come in for their services I shall send you the photographs.
The ones who turn the fuel off & run the motor dry will be fine
The ones who turn the engine off then turn the fuel off ( as per instruction book ) will have a carb full of white jelly
The ones who forgot to turn the fuel off will have a carb full of varnish .

Both of the latter two will most likely have no zinc plating left on the bowl and some will break off when I try to undo the bowl nut.

These are genuine Honda engines mostly 160's

 

[Carscw]

In winter when all the fire pumps from the volunteer fire fighters come in for their services I shall send you the photographs. The ones who turn the fuel off & run the motor dry will be fine The ones who turn the engine off then turn the fuel off ( as per instruction book ) will have a carb full of white jelly The ones who forgot to turn the fuel off will have a carb full of varnish . Both of the latter two will most likely have no zinc plating left on the bowl and some will break off when I try to undo the bowl nut. These are genuine Honda engines mostly 160's

And you know ethanol is causing this how?