IS600Z Engine Question

[Drewski]

First, greets to all!

I've been reading in the shadows all of the great info you folks have posted. Which in turn lead me to my local tractor shop/Ferris dealer.

I have read here and elsewhere, to pay the $450 for the Kawasaki engine.

The dealer however says, B&S has come a long way and the "Briggs & Stratton Commercial Turf Series" and that is their engine of choice. In the past few years of this engine, they report 0 returns or warranty issues. They sell about 30 Ferris units annually.

They would gladly order me one with the Kaw, and try to get it shipped, and arrive by Derby. Derby by the way is about the 3rd week of mowing season here. HOWEVER, we appear to have an early spring this year and honestly, the grass is gonna need cut next weekend if these 60 degree days hang around. But they have three in stock right now with the B&S.

My question to you all is; does this sound like let's make a deal now and move one in stock, or has the B&S really made improvements with the "Briggs & Stratton Commercial Turf Series"?

The Ferris IS600 is my #1 choice this is the only dealer within a reasonable drive.

 

[Mad Mackie]

Hi Drewski,
I have a 2008 Scag Tiger Cub that originally had a 26 Briggs ELS/Intek engine. It started giving me problems in the fall of 2012 and in spring of 2013, I replaced it with a 30 Briggs Commercial Turf Series engine as it was an easy changeover, same cables, wiring and muffler.
This engine now has 200 hours on it and has been a great engine. The changes and upgrades that Briggs did on these engines has made them top performers in my opinion. The aluminum intake manifold, increased flow cooling system, engine oil cooler, Cyclonic Air Filtration System and internal changes are the high points of these engines. I particularly like the Cyclonic Air Filtration System as I use a collection system about 90% of the time which increases the dust around the engine to unbelievable levels. Zero Turn machines create lots of dust just by their design, so good air filtration on the engine is important and critical with collection systems.
The only Kawasaki engine that I would consider is an FX model which has the HD two stage Donaldson type air filtration system, I wouldn't bother with Kawasaki FS or FR model engine options as they have the standard Kawasaki air filters.
I also have a 2012 Hustler X-ONE Kawasaki FX730V powered, so I'm able to do a fairly good comparison, no doubt the FX engine is a sweet running engine.
I like the design of Ferris machines as they have some suspension to them where as the majority on ZTRs have ridged frames.
Just some thoughts from
Mad Mackie in CT:laughing::biggrin::smile:

 

[Drewski]

Thank you for that. :thumbsup:

 

[rmccutchan]

I'll take this opportunity for my first post on the forum :smile:

My dealer said the same thing about the Commercial Turf engine as yours did. They actually prefer it over the Kawi engines. The two key's is to engine longevity is keep to keep the air filter clean and keep good oil in it. I change oil a little bit before it's time, and it sounds like B&S adressed the air filter cleanliness with the cyclonic filter. The dealer said he has been surprised at how clean the filters when people bring their mowers in for service, even at 200 hours. I have a no-name engine on a Menards push mower that I beat up pretty bad. I never let the oil get black, and the little trooper never fails me, even at 90 degrees in 2' tall weeds!

I purchased an IS700 in December, so I will have more insight later this year!

 

[bertsmobile1]

The air cleaners on all B & S engines are crap and have been so for the last 20 years since the old Power Builts when they abandoned the bolt down filters.
Honda have finally made their push mowers as good as 1958 Victa's by finally fitting a snorkel so it sucks clean air from the top of the handle bars, but only on commercial mowers and at the same time withdrawing the snorkel kits for all earlier models. We are looking at getting these made as aftermarket accessories again because I care about my customers more than my bottom line which funny enough is fattening my bottom line.

Fitting a Donaldson filter ( two cylinders cyclonic type ) makes an unbelieviable difference. The very large surface area means the air velocity is very low so dust falls out very easily and your engine sucks very clean air.
They will be 1/2 the price if bought as a kit from a filter shop than as a branded product from a mower shop. Buy 3 outers my commercial customers go through 1 outer every 1 to 2 years and some have been running the same inner for better then 4 years because the filter is so effective and again the induction tube is higher up and away from the dust stirred up by the mower.

 

[Mad Mackie]

All ZTRs are dusty, some more than others and more when a collection system is installed.
Donaldson air filters are good providing they are original equipment by the engine manufacturer.
The few Donaldson air filters that I have seen that were installed as an accessory caused the engines to run an excessively rich fuel mixture.
Every engine manufacturer that installs them that I have looked at the parts manuals of, changes the jetting and or carbs to accommodate the Donaldson air filters restriction of airflow, check out the Kawasaki FS730V and the FX730V for example.
Donaldson designs and manufactures many of the small engine air filtering systems, the Cyclonic Air Filtration System used on Briggs Commercial Turf Series engines for an example.

 

[rmccutchan]

The air cleaners on all B & S engines are crap and have been so for the last 20 years since the old Power Builts when they abandoned the bolt down filters.

Which is why Briggs designed the cyclonic air filter system. The mechanic at my Ferris dealer said he couldn't believe how well the filter worked. He changed several of them because the customer requested it even though they didn't need changed.

I hope people realize that clean air filters are as important as clean oil. Dirty air filters cause carbureted engines to run rich, which causes gas to get into the oil, which causes the oil to thin out and break down, which causes less lubrication and more heat.....you get the picture :biggrin:

Here's a video from Briggs explaining their Commercial Turf filter system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHB569yZsEc

Seriously, clean air, clean fuel, and clean oil are the keys to long enging life. You just can't get around it.

 

[bertsmobile1]

All ZTRs are dusty, some more than others and more when a collection system is installed.
Donaldson air filters are good providing they are original equipment by the engine manufacturer.
The few Donaldson air filters that I have seen that were installed as an accessory caused the engines to run an excessively rich fuel mixture.
Every engine manufacturer that installs them that I have looked at the parts manuals of, changes the jetting and or carbs to accommodate the Donaldson air filters restriction of airflow, check out the Kawasaki FS730V and the FX730V for example.
Donaldson designs and manufactures many of the small engine air filtering systems, the Cyclonic Air Filtration System used on Briggs Commercial Turf Series engines for an example.

No argument from me about that been playing with motorcycles for 50 years, better filters = smaller main jets regardless of weather thay are Donaldson or K & N or just an oily rag.
If you buy an aftermarket kit through Donaldson down here it comes with a jetting chart.
If you buy it from a mower shop with a mower company's name on the outside of the bag it costs 2 to 3 times as much with no jetting chart.
And they reckon we don't take care of or appreciate their products, right.
Honda originally used the excuse of rich running damage to withdraw the snorkel kit they used to supply.
Now they claim inability to comply with EPA regulations as the excuse to keep them off the shelf.
One would have thought that for $ 120 they could manage to include a new $ 5.oo main jet but they don't.
Oddly enough the snorkel set up fitted to a Victa costs $ 45.oo to replace.

 

[1striper1]

I'll take the FX Kawi 730 in my ZTR over the POS B&S Pro Series "oil burner" that I had in my Simplicity.

Well worth the money....don't be penny wise and dollar foolish!

 

[Shughes717]

I'll take the FX Kawi 730 in my ZTR over the POS B&S Pro Series "oil burner" that I had in my Simplicity.

Well worth the money....don't be penny wise and dollar foolish!

Not making a fair comparison of engines there. B&S has an engine that is every bit as good as the fx series Kawi. It's called the vanguard. The commercial turf series B&S is comparable to the fs series Kawi. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Comparing the fx series to the pro series briggs would be like comparing the fr series Kawi to the vanguard. Btw, I am also a fan of Kawi engines. I would be just as happy with the vanguard on my mower though