HRX217TDA Extremely hard to start

OK, so I have an HRX217TDA that was fine till late last year. Late last year it went from starting in 1-2 pulls, to taking 5-6-7 pulls to start. This year, it takes 10+ pulls to start, and if I get to 10 pulls, I'm using starting fluid to start it. Once it does start, it runs best on full choke. Putting it to the fast run position it seems to not be running as fast as it should. I've read up a bunch and tried many things to fix this problem.

What I've done so far and the results:
- Verify choke plate is moving as commanded by the throttle lever. The choke does close when set to choke, and opens when throttle is pulled off the choke setting.
- New fuel with Star Tron stabilizer. I always use a stabilizer and I switched over to this one as it's supposed to have some cleaning properties (maybe). No change.
- Removed and cleaned the carb - no change, still a hard start. The carb looked really clean when I cleaned it. I found no passages blocked.
- New carb and gaskets - no change on starting, but now it surges hunting up and down on speed. This was a result of putting the air deflector and 1/4" spacer gasket in the wrong order when assembling. took it apart and verified ALL gasket passages and holes are in the right position and correct order and that solved the surging, but it's still a hard start. I really expected the new carb would be the fix. The new carb is a Honda OEM, the upgraded version where the fuel bowl is now tapered without the drain screw. The original carb was the one with the fuel bowl with straight sides and the drain screw. That shouldn't matter, but I have both in case one is really better than the other.
- New spark plug - no change, still a hard start, still need to run it on full choke.

I think the key is that it will start on 1-2 pulls if I use starting fluid says I still have a fuel problem even though I have a new carb. Plus that I need to run it on full choke to keep the RPM's running where they should be points to a fuel problem. Once it's been warmed up, it will start on a single pull as expected. even warmed up, it runs better under full choke.

I must be missing something simple and I really don't want to have to take it to a dealer as it does not fit in my trunk. I'd need a friend with a truck or rent one to get it to a dealer. Any help is greatly appreciated at this point as I have no idea what to do next, and I'm worried I'm causing damage running it in full choke mode to cut the grass.

Thanks
Dan

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/l/hpe/505ce4a7f870022d24bdc73c/hrx217k1-tda-parts

you need to adjust valves on engine

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...e..69i57j0.36537j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

mechanic mark said:

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/l/hpe/505ce4a7f870022d24bdc73c/hrx217k1-tda-parts

you need to adjust valves on engine

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...e..69i57j0.36537j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Click to expand...

Thank you Mark !!
I'm off to the store to get a set of feeler gauges and some permatex to seal it all back up after adjusting. I'll check in with results once the permatex is setup and I can try starting the mower.
.....aaaaand my weekend work assignment begins......

HurstGN said:

Thank you Mark !!
I'm off to the store to get a set of feeler gauges and some permatex to seal it all back up after adjusting. I'll check in with results once the permatex is setup and I can try starting the mower.
.....aaaaand my weekend work assignment begins......

Click to expand...

I set the valve lash, it was a little loose but not too far off. I sealed the cover and let it seal overnight. This morning, 10 pulls and no start, I gave up and put it away.
Any thing else I could have missed?

mechanic mark said:

https://www.hondapartsnation.com/oemparts/l/hpe/505ce4a7f870022d24bdc73c/hrx217k1-tda-parts

you need to adjust valves on engine

https://www.google.com/search?q=how...e..69i57j0.36537j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Click to expand...

oil on dipstick look ok? air filter & spark plug ok? have you inspected flywheel key? inspect woodruff key above rotary blades?

Fuel might not be the problem as much as a mass air intake situation. I assume all new gaskets were installed with the new carb? Also you need to look closely at the gaslet between the filter box and carburetor.

Oil is in the proper range on the dipstick. I don't know that changing the oil would be of much help at this point, but I can do it.

The spark plug is a new NGK. The air filter looks new, no visible dirt on it. Honda filter. I have not pulled the flywheel yet to check the key.

I did replace all gaskets when I installed the new carb. I did do the 1/4 thick plastic one out of order the first time I replaced it (mounted it on the wrong side of the air deflector) and that caused a surging issue to surface along with the hard start. After that mistake, I pulled the carb and ensured ALL the gaskets were oriented properly, paying close attention to the small air holes in the gaskets. I'd think the gasket between the carb and air cleaner is kinda ruled out because the choke butterfly is closed and that butterfly is closer than the gasket between the air filter housing and the carb. Is it possible the breather tube is causing a problem? I have it hooked up, but did not trace it back to where it's connected to the engine. Although it feeds to a channel that is also farther away from the choke plate, so maybe not my problem.

If I give it a shot of starting fluid, it starts right up. It runs to cut the grass. When I stop to empty the bag, it starts right up again like it should. It's only the initial start that is killing me. I'm beginning to think this new carb is defective and I just hadn't cleaned the original good enough as this all seems to be fuel related. The starting fluid gets me going indicating I'm fuel starved when I first start it. And once going, I can cut the entire yard no problem. I even let it run out of gas the last time I cut to see if that had any different effect on the situation. It ran dry and stopped. So I know the carb bowl was empty. I filled the tank and it started right back up. No trouble. It's just that first start that I wear out an arm pulling the recoil over and over and over.... And I have the manual choke, so there is no automatic choke involved here.

I don't have a solution for you except to say that if the flywheel key was bad it wouldn't ever really run right. Ditto carburetor health: there shouldn't be a dedicated fuel circuit for starting, so there shouldn't be a clogging issue related to starting up.

You say you verified the choke butterfly is closing properly. Can you try starting it without the air cleaner assembly? Can you try starting with no choke engaged, instead holding your hand or a piece of paper or cardboard covering the carb inlet? I realize you'd need a helper for this and/or perhaps custom studs/nuts if this is the sort of setup that only stays put when everything from behind the carb all the way to the air cleaner housing is held together at once.


Last month it ran me $115 at the dealer to reinstall my carb and adjust the governor. No new parts. Even with Honda's service manual illustrations I still had assembled part of it wrong. I saw the choke butterfly closing but it still wouldn't start. But that was with an auto choke model. So I can't explain that, unless a misshapen gasket somehow prevented the throttle from opening when in choke mode and I just couldn't witness it.

I'll give this a try once we get out of the monsoons this week. We've been getting the leftovers from tornado alley and those leftovers carry a lot of rain. 5" yesterday alone.
I did take my old carb apart and re-clean from the ground up. I'm going to put it back on in case there is a defect with the new carb and I missed some dirt in the old carb the first time around.
I'll post my results.

did you adjust valves on correct stroke? first remove spark plug & insert plastic straw, i use a long skinny phillips screwdriver, & rotate top screen on engine by hand until piston is at TDC & both rocker arms are loose & uniform, now you are ready to adjust both valves.