Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.

Audible Nectar

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.

Hello there - it seems there exists a knowledgeable base of people who know their stuff about lawn/garden tractors and associated attachments to steer me in the right direction....

Property: 2ish acres with a fair amount of trees on property to maneuver around. In addition, it exists in a valley, densely shrouded with trees above, which serves to form a "bowl" where all of the leaves from the surrounding hillsides settle onto our lawn and property, necessitating a leaf removal system that won't break our back :)

I've been perusing the various sites, and now this forum, looking for some direction as to what tractor would best suit our needs - but more importantly, what is DURABLE, and will stand the test of time. I don't mind a greater investment if it lasts longer and is more appropriate for the workload it gets.

I am good at maintaining equipment, given a little education about it, as well as if it is reasonably easy to do.


What I've gleaned so far -

It seems that.......

Kawasaki is a preferred choice for power?

That possibly a machine that borders on commercial might be more in my interest, as durability and a better built machine is important (durable/serviceable transmission). Just like on my vehicles - a strong powertrain.

Good looking cut helps....

But then, this: I've seen ads for the "DR" leaf and lawn vacuum, which seems a wonderful attachment for a tractor given my extreme leaf problem. It also doubles as a lawn cart for hauling mulch and so forth when not used as a leaf vac. It attaches to the output of the tractor's mower, so I would guess that a tractor with a good "vacuum" or ability to draw leaves from the lawn's surface would be important.


Maybe less important, but if the tractor had the ability to add a snowthrower it would be a nice bonus, but not so much that I couldn't just use a stand alone unit, which would be more maneuverable. But if it had such an option it would be hard to ignore.


I'm not married to any particular brand of equipment, but do want durability/reliability, and if a particular manufacturer has a greater chance of being around in 10-15 years (for parts/service availability) that's also a plus. Until I started reading here I didn't know Bobcat, Scag, etc because I have looked mostly in the mass home improvement stores (which I assume isn't really what I'm going to want here) but certainly won't close my mind because I haven't heard of them.

So I need an education here, and am hoping you can help. Thanks in advance.
 

bertsmobile1

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
Re: Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HA

Nothing collects clippings & leaves better than a Walker
Weather they will work with your block is another question.
The 3 wheel ones can be a bit of a handful on rough ground as they are designed to chase the pheasants across M'lords finely manicured lawn.
But the 4 wheel ones are reasonably stable.
Add to that the up front deck that you can see then you have one of the best mower lay outs possible.
Down side is they are not rough cut paddock slashers.

Nothing with blades that all turn in the same direction actually bags really well, some just do it less bad than others and that will be at he cost of fitting a blower to the discharge which will cause the deck to drop on the right side.

If you have several distinct requirements from the mower then don't expect a single mower to do it all.
Universal means does everything the same, poorly.

As for durability, a mower with a horizontal shaft engine will run ring around any other engine layout regardless of which factory the engine comes out of.
Vertical shaft engines were designed to REDUCE THE COST of rotary mowers and they have remained a cost reduction item even since. ie the cheapest engine possible to make.
If you check the price of replacement horizontal shaft engines and an identical specification vertical shaft engine, the horizontal will be about twice the price because it will last 4 times as long.
Look at what goes into skid steers , boring & trenching machines, items that are expected to work all day long, every day. That is durability, everything else is advertiising.

Long haul, have a big think about weather you are trying to fight a loosing battle with nature .
There are lots of things that will happily live amongst heavy leaf fall, not require to be raked & removed and thus not require lots of time & money.

If your property is heavily wooded then most grasses will be marginal in any case.

Apart from the Walker there are a lot of tow behind leaf rakes and tow behind vacuums which are more likely to do the job properly than a mower bagger.

If you want to go for a tractor type mower then look at the sub compact tractors , again with horizontal shaft engines and if you really want durability then a 2 or 3 cylinder diesel .

In my service run I have a lot of 2000 series Cub Cadets, these are all pushing 20 years old & all running strongly on their horizontal shaft Kohlers, many are well over 2000 hours.
The 3000 series Cubs are even better as they are basically a 2000 series with hydraulics.

Again 2nd hand there are the Duratracs, Bolens-Troybuilt depending upon the age.
Got a couple of these as well, again pushing 20 years old being used on woodland and all running strong.

Other things to look at is the steering.
Hydraulic is good, tight turn / fast turn is bad particularly the ones that use 2 drag links and even worse if the drag links do not have tie rod ends on them.
The reason most don't ,is CHEAPNESS . Cheapness and durability are mutually exclusive .
Have a look at the transmission.
If it has a headder tank and a replacable filter then it is designed to run for a long time.
If it is a "sealed for life- no maintenance " unit then they missed the important adjective "short" in front of the word life.

And avoid anything that is painted orange with a Sweedish name on the side even their commercial range is at best slightly above average domestic grade.

Look for grease nipples ( zerks to the sexually repressed ) the more the better.
You grease things that you want to run for a very long time.
 

Audible Nectar

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
Re: Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HA

Am I correct that any of these mowers with horizontal shaft engines are in the five figure (in excess of $10K) range? Not sure I can budget that much for it, and might have to lower my expectations some, although I'm still looking at older posts here, watching YouTube vids, and trying to get a "lay of the land" on what is in the marketplace, as well as assessing just what I can allocate to the purchase. What is the entry level for machines with horizontal shaft?

I intend to start visiting dealers in the coming weeks, most here are an hour drive outside of town, but would rather get what info I can from the comp here at home before I begin bugging the dealers - I do try on some level to be educated when I approach such a topic, at least to the extent that I make some effort to not be a complete idiot.....

Point well taken on the "do it all" aspect (Jack of all trades and a master of none). Ideally I would have a machine that would mow, bag, and snowplow/throw, but also am willing to, as an example, have a separate snow removal machine and just let the mower be a mower. I will add that the "bagger" is important and mandatory. And yes I have grass, and if I do not address the leaf issue in fall, I won't have grass. It's that simple. And while I'm not necessarily looking to have it golf course manicured, a decent cut and a reasonably good cleanup does make my lawn look pretty good. It's just that my surgically rebuilt from-the-knees-down feet and legs (clubfoot) needs a break from the heavier lifting aspects of caring for it, as we have made a decision to stay on this property for the coming decade or two.....

I also am curious if I end up having to do something below the horizontal shaft machine on a budget level, what is the "next best thing" I can do re: powertrain? I've been reading up on some of these hydrogear transmission setups (what's serviceable, what's not, what's more durable) and at least on some level that's divulged in the literature for some of these machines, at least with respect to model (2200, 2800, 3100, 3400, etc) but the engines are coming up "not much" and leave me confused on that issue.

So I am attempting to soak up some of this information, in an attempt to do the best I can with what I have to work with re: budget, which I'm still evaluating (remodeling here, and what's left over/worked out to be available for mower budget will be determined). Thinking maybe lower end of the commercial market, bagger/mower 7Kish seems doable at this point though. With absence of cost overruns on remodel, maybe a bit more though.

Thanks again in advance....
 

cruzenmike

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
Re: Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HA

My vote would be for a Kubota BX23S with a 60" mowing deck and 50" front mount snow blower with remote chute controls. This is certainly a machine that can do it all. While you may not want to spend the $24k I just did (theoretically speaking from my suggestion), there are certainly capable garden tractors that can be had for under $10k that can do what you want. $7k is a bit low considering that the snow blower attachments for some of the garden tractors alone can cost as much as $3k. Bercomac makes a nice"universal" snow blower than can be fitted up to different makes of riders. But what you must consider is needing a heavy duty trans and stout frame to handle the added stress of using attachments and so on. Might want to start at a John Deere X380 with all the attachments?
 

bertsmobile1

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
Re: Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HA

You might like to look at some used machines.
The 2000 / 3000 series Cub Cadets are powered by horizontal shaft Kohlers and a 2000 should be around $ 500 to $ 2000 for an exceptional one
The 3000 series are the Garden tractor version of the 2000 which is what you want if you are going to push snow.
A bit older but totally bullet proof are the Bolens ,then TroyBilt DuraTrac series, again real micro tractors and almost unstoppable.
The latter are a bit difficult to mount & dismount so might be a problem and both mowers can be fitted with cabs.

After that I would be looking at real sub-compact tractors in the 40hp range.
They were very popular down here with the weekend farms of attorneys till they realized they needed something bigger.
Most have a 3 point linkage and a lot have provision for an underbelly mower.
Don't overlook a tow behind self powered yard vacuum.
As you will only be using it during fall and probably only a dozen time a year a tow behind might just serve you well

I always favour running single purpose machines.
I have a lot of very old used mowers.
They each have a specific job to do so will probably run happily till petrol becomes illegal
All up the 7 machines cost less than $ 5000 and down here a bog standard Craftsman runs to that amount .
Add to that should one be out of service there are others that can do the same job in a reasonable mannar.

The farm where my workshop is has a dozen old diesel tractors from the 60's.
They are all in the 40Hp to 60Hp range , each one has a different impliment attached to it,
The owner pail less than the price of a new tyre for each of them so they owe him nothing.
Mechanical diesel engines are very simple and will run forever.
 

Audible Nectar

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
Re: Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HA

I have definitely been looking at the "tow behind" leaf vacuum. The "DR" brand seems an interesting lineup of offerings, and they double as a yard cart which can be useful during the other parts of the season where the leaf vac isn't used. I need this more than I would need a snow removal setup on the tractor, I can always go separate on snow removal. My leafed in area is MUCH larger and in need of good power equipment to address.

The snow removal on a separate machine is also a more likely choice here, but given that I'm shopping around for this, it makes sense to consider and price all of the options and potential pathways to property maintenance solutions. While I must say that the snowblower and circular round brooms seen on the Grasshopper and John Deere machinery looks VERY attractive, I'm rather sure that I could live with a sizeable stand-alone two stage machine for the heavy jobs and even a smaller, more nimble machine for the tighter spaces and still come in at a much lower price point for the snow removal gear. Snowthrower plus circular broom (I really like those) are about 4-5K total for both, it seems.....at least new. I wouldn't say no if I located a good used package of this stuff, however....

Once I come up for air from the remodeling projects on the property I will be hitting the dealers for in person look-see on some of this stuff. The longevity of the horizontal shaft stuff seems more of a reason to consider used, where on the vertical shafted equipment I would almost insist on buying new as I would want to not be inheriting somebody else's problem. I am very deliberate and meticulous on maintenance issues so it would be cared for in any case.

I must say a used but cared for Grasshopper or John Deere kit would certainly have possibilities. I also need to keep eyes open for the aforementioned Cub Cadets/Bolens and so forth. I expect I'll be logging some mileage to the dealers......

The discussion of this broader range of options is MUCH appreciated.
 

MParr

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  • / Need lawn (or garden?) tractor advice with strong bagger/"vac" function - LONG HAUL.
I’m not a fan of baggers or leaf vacuums. They are a headache and usually end up being put in a corner somewhere. Leaf fall is going to be in Autumn. A pull behind rake or changing the blades to Gator type mulching blades is going to be the simple answer. My vote is for Gator type blades. Mulched up leaves provide good nutrients to your lawn.
 
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