The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper

JCAllison

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Threads
5
Messages
59
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Hey All,
It has been years since I was last here looking for help for Karel (pronounced Care-L), the 2001 Craftsman 42" Riding Lawn Tractor. During that time, have taken excellent care of Karel, and she has reciprocated by being wondrously reliable. It might seem a bit gauche for me to only show up here when there is a problem, but I am not qualified to answer questions, and don't want to waste everyone's time with idle chitchat.

The last time Karel needed help, you all came to her rescue valiantly. Am hoping that the same will happen this time.

Before stating the problem, permit elucidation on WHAT Karel actually is:

Craftsman Model 917.270622
Automatic/42" Cut
Briggs & Stratton
I/C Platinum 15.5 HP OHV Turbo Cool
Model 28U707
Type 1174-E1

Decided that today was going to be the first mowing of 2019.

Removed Karel's Winter Cover.

Put the Battery Charger on Karel's Battery at 6 Amps for one hour. MultiTester said it had 13.12 Volts.

Put fresh fuel into Karel's Gas Tank.

Checked to see if there was fuel in the Fuel Filter. There was.

Checked Karel's Oil. It needed a small amount to bring the level up to FULL.

Pulled the Spark Plug. It was fine, and was reinstalled.

Tried to start the Brigg&Stratton.

Put the Throttle Lever to Choke, and keyed the Starter.

It would crank just fine, but wouldn't fire.

Removed the Air Cleaner. It had been cleaned before putting Karel away last November.

Put a spritz of Starter Fluid into the Carburetor, and keyed the Starter. Karel started right up! BUT as soon as the Starting Fluid was gone, the Engine quit.

So the problem is NOT Spark, or Compression. The problem is that the Engine is NOT getting fuel. Obviously a Carburetor Problem.

Am hoping that there is an easy way to remedy this, and figured that if anyone would know how to do it, it would be you guys here on the LawnMowerForum.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you may be able to afford Karel.

Hope this finds you all doing well.

Take care.

JC
 

Boobala

Lawn Pro
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Threads
200
Messages
7,000
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Hey All,
It has been years since I was last here looking for help for Karel (pronounced Care-L), the 2001 Craftsman 42" Riding Lawn Tractor. During that time, have taken excellent care of Karel, and she has reciprocated by being wondrously reliable. It might seem a bit gauche for me to only show up here when there is a problem, but I am not qualified to answer questions, and don't want to waste everyone's time with idle chitchat.

The last time Karel needed help, you all came to her rescue valiantly. Am hoping that the same will happen this time.

Before stating the problem, permit elucidation on WHAT Karel actually is:

Craftsman Model 917.270622
Automatic/42" Cut
Briggs & Stratton
I/C Platinum 15.5 HP OHV Turbo Cool
Model 28U707
Type 1174-E1

Decided that today was going to be the first mowing of 2019.

Removed Karel's Winter Cover.

Put the Battery Charger on Karel's Battery at 6 Amps for one hour. MultiTester said it had 13.12 Volts.

Put fresh fuel into Karel's Gas Tank.

Checked to see if there was fuel in the Fuel Filter. There was.

Checked Karel's Oil. It needed a small amount to bring the level up to FULL.

Pulled the Spark Plug. It was fine, and was reinstalled.

Tried to start the Brigg&Stratton.

Put the Throttle Lever to Choke, and keyed the Starter.

It would crank just fine, but wouldn't fire.

Removed the Air Cleaner. It had been cleaned before putting Karel away last November.

Put a spritz of Starter Fluid into the Carburetor, and keyed the Starter. Karel started right up! BUT as soon as the Starting Fluid was gone, the Engine quit.

So the problem is NOT Spark, or Compression. The problem is that the Engine is NOT getting fuel. Obviously a Carburetor Problem.

Am hoping that there is an easy way to remedy this, and figured that if anyone would know how to do it, it would be you guys here on the LawnMowerForum.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you may be able to afford Karel.

Hope this finds you all doing well.

Take care.

JC

HMMmm .... sounds like a fuel issue for sure, best advice I would recommend, remove the carb. give it a O/H kit, replace ALL fuel lines, filter, AND fuel shut-off valve, be ABSOLUTELY sure the tank is IMMACULATE, BEFORE you reinstall the rebuilt carb. here's a bit of info to help...

http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/repairs/#id_briggs

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B6NaqjIxWV1ybEN0LWo3azl6OUU/edit .. SEE Section 4

keep us up-dated
 

JCAllison

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Threads
5
Messages
59
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
HMMmm .... sounds like a fuel issue for sure

Hey Boobala,
Thanks for the prompt response. As for it being a fuel issue, it IS. No doubt about it.

best advice I would recommend, remove the carb. give it a O/H kit, replace ALL fuel lines, filter,

Alas, removing, and rebuilding the Carburetor is a bit above my pay grade. This sounds like a job for Billy at the Lawn Mower Shop.

AND fuel shut-off valve

Have not run across any "fuel shut-off valve".

be ABSOLUTELY sure the tank is IMMACULATE, BEFORE you reinstall the rebuilt carb.

All right.


All right.

keep us up-dated

For sure.

Actually, I was hoping against hope that someone here would say: "Oh, THAT happens all the time. And when it does, all you have to do is... (and there would follow some esoteric procedure that would get Karel up&running easily).

It's too bad that Karel has THAT carburetor and not an Autolite 4100 C4AF-9510-DG (which is on Ms. American 3.14159, the only 1964 Ford Galaxie 500, Four-door, Hard-top, Fast-back Police Interceptor that Google finds on the whole World Wide Web). Have rebuilt a few 4100s, but they are nothing like the Carburetor on Karel.

Anyway, thanks again for your response. Will probably get Billy to come pick Karel up tomorrow. The Lawn Mower Shop is closed on Mondays.

Hope this finds YOU doing well.

JC
 

Boobala

Lawn Pro
Joined
Feb 15, 2015
Threads
200
Messages
7,000
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
A fuel shut-off valve helps a few things, it will let you remove the fuel tank for any purpose (cleanining) when valve is closed, and prevents fuel from filling your engines oil sump if your carb float needle sticks in open position also changing fuel filter with fuel in the tank, just have to remember to turn it on or off....... that wire (center of pic) is my ground wire from the solenoid mounting screw to a place on the the throttle mount bracket (close & convenient)

DSCN2477.jpg....DSCN2494.jpg
 

bertsmobile1

Lawn Royalty
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Threads
64
Messages
24,647
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Take the blower housing off
There are 4 bolts that hold it on.

better than average chance that Mr Mouse has been ovewintering under it and had a midnight snack on the wire to the carb solenoid .
When you turn on the ignition you should hear it click or feel it click as it turns on.
Any fuel left in the float bowl can evaporate over winter to a sticky goo which prevents it from opening.
Putting in a tap as Boo mentioned is a very good idea so you can starve the engine off at the end of the season to leave the float bowl empty over winter.

Let us know what you find.
 
Last edited:

JCAllison

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Threads
5
Messages
59
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
A fuel shut-off valve helps a few things, it will let you remove the fuel tank for any purpose (cleanining) when valve is closed, and prevents fuel from filling your engines oil sump if your carb float needle sticks in open position (broken fuel solenoid) also changing fuel filter with fuel in the tank, just have to remember to turn it on or off.
Hey Mr. Boobala,
Can see how a "Shut-Off Valve" would be a GREAT thing to have. Alas, Karel doesn't have one. Also the Hose that goes from the bottom of the Fuel Tank to the Fuel Filter goes through a Hole in the Cowl Flange. Will see if Billy at the Lawn Mower Shop has one. Installing it would involve rerouting the Fuel Line from the bottom of the Tank to the Fuel Filter directly TO the Fuel Filter instead of going through the hole in the Cowl Flange (will see if a JPG of this can be had).
that wire (center of pic) is my ground wire from the solenoid mounting screw to a place on the the throttle mount bracket (close & convenient)
Not understanding this.

JC
 

JCAllison

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Threads
5
Messages
59
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Take the blower housing off. There are 4 bolts that hold it on. better than average chance that Mr Mouse has been ovewintering under it and had a midnight snack on the wire to the solenoid Boo mentioned previously.
Hey Mr. B1,
See that you are in Australia where you have mice. Karel lives in what is called "Deep East Texas", in the largest Pine Tree Forest in the world. The area under the Pine Trees is called "The Big Thicket"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Thicket

which is home to literally thousands of feral cats, thus there are no mice in the area! Don't think that Mr. Mouse is involved in this caper.
When you turn on the ignition you should hear it click or feel it click as it turns on.
Have never noticed a "click" from a Solenoid, but there IS a substantial "CLICK" when the Starter is keyed. Have always though that it was caused by the Starter Gears engaging. Is it THAT to which you refer? If it is, THAT is all quite well. As mentioned in the original post, the Engine starts easily when spritzed with Starter Fluid.
Any fuel left in the float bowl can evaporate over winter to a sticky goo which prevents it from opening.
Can see how this might happen, but it has never happened before. Karel came to live with me in 2001. This is the first time in 18 years that she has failed to start right up after being dormant from November to March.

Is there something like an Injector Solvent that could be put into the Carburetor to ameliorate the "sticky goo"? If so, how would one get the Injector Solvent into the Carburetor's Float Bowl?
Let us know what you find.
Will for sure keep you updated if, when, and as progress occurs.

Thanks for the response. Hope YOU are well. Take care.

JC
 

bertsmobile1

Lawn Royalty
Joined
Nov 29, 2014
Threads
64
Messages
24,647
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Do you have the owners manual ?
If not get one, it is a free download.
We will use it to accurately describe parts so you know exactly what we are talking about.

The carb solenoid I was talking about is part 947 on page 53
According to the wiring diagram on page 33 of the owners manual the fuel shut off solenoid has 2 wires.
One will be + 12 V when the ignition is turned on & the other is ground.
You can check the plug for voltage and the other side for continuity to ground.
This will be easier than pulling the blower housing off.
Take a photo of it as while the plug is handed, it will go in either way but only work one way.
The solenoid holds the float bowl on and is held in place with a 1/2" headed nut so you use a thin 1/2" open ender to pull it off.
When off check for debris in the float bowl and check that the pin in the solenoid retracts fully when the mower is turned on.

Only running on starting fluid is exactly what happens when this valve fails.
 

JCAllison

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Threads
5
Messages
59
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Do you have the owners manual?
Hey Mr. B1,
Karel was inherited from a friend who passed away in 2001. Unfortunately, no manual was inherited.
If not get one, it is a free download.
Got it.
We will use it to accurately describe parts so you know exactly what we are talking about.
All right.
The carb solenoid I was talking about is part 947 on page 53
Found this. Part 947 is in the lower right hand corner.
According to the wiring diagram on page 33 of the owners manual the fuel shut off solenoid has 2 wires.
One will be + 12 V when the ignition is turned on & the other is ground.
Found this.
You can check the plug for voltage and the other side for continuity to ground.
This will be easier than pulling the blower housing off.
Will check on this tomorrow.
Take a photo of it as while the plug is handed, it will go in either way but only work one way.
All right.
The solenoid holds the float bowl on and is held in place with a 1/2" headed nut so you use a thin 1/2" open ender to pull it off.
Will see about this tomorrow.
When off check for debris in the float bowl and check that the pin in the solenoid retracts fully when the mower is turned on.
All right.
Only running on starting fluid is exactly what happens when this valve fails.
GREAT information. Will check all this tomorrow. Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks for taking the time to help us out here.

Take care.

JC
 

JCAllison

Active Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Threads
5
Messages
59
  • / The GREAT Start Karel, the Craftsmand 42" Riding Lawn Tractor Caper
Hey All,
Saturday, March 19, 2019, Afternoon Update:

Took the Key to Karel's Ignition Switch, and turned the Switch to all positions, listening for a "click" at the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid. There was none.

Removed the Electrical Plug from the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid, pushed it out of the way.

Set up a Funnel, and Fuel Container to where the Fuel that would come out of the Bowl when the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid was removed would be caught.

Proceeded to remove the Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid from the Bowl. It was not all gunked up, and the Plunger goes up and down easily.

Hooked the Electrical Plug to the Solenoid, and turned the Ignition Switch to all positions, and the Plunger didn't retract. Didn't know if the Case has to be grounded, so held the Solenoid's Case against the Bowl, and turned the Ignition Switch to all positions. No click, and no retraction. It appears that the Solenoid is non-functional.

Here are a couple of JPGs of Karel's Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid:
KARSOL1.jpg
KARSOL3.jpg

So it appears that the acquisition of a NEW Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid is in order.

In the mean time, have done some research into what to do, and found one YouTube Video that averred that one could cut the Plunger off where it comes out of the Canister, which would make it to where the Engine would run, but one would have to have a Shut-Off Valve to keep Gasoline from leaking into the Oil Sump when the Engine was not running. Doing this would make it to where a NEW Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid could be ordered, and we would still be able to mow the Lawns before they get overgrown, making Karel's task harder for her. Then when the NEW Fuel Cut-Off Solenoid arrived, it could be installed.

Another alternative would be to find out if Billy at the Lawn Mower Shop might have a suitable Unit in stock. Tried to call, but got no answer. Billy apparently has caller ID, for he called me right back, and said that he has New and Used Units in stock. Wants me to bring him the one here on the Bench, and we can see if he has a suitable replacement.

So am out of here for a bit. Will post this, and update this thread upon returning.

JC
 
Top