Honda HRB216TDA can barely pull itself forward

soundchasm

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Hello All,

First post. I have been very happy with this Honda mower until the last couple of years, and 2018 has been, shall we say, problematic.

I sent oil off for Used Oil Analysis and the lab was really impressed with how well the engine was wearing. The engine was manufactured in 2001. I really don't recall when I bought it. 2010, 2012??? The lab said it was a very good sample.

To cut to the chase, in 2018 the mower was barely able to drag itself forward. Level ground was OK, but a hill was 90% me and 10% mower, if that.
I replaced the belt drive pulley and belt and the mower was a champ for one or two cycles. Then it seemed as things heated up the ability to drive the wheels simply flagged out.

Then I go back to complete "drive" anemia for a cycle. Read about adjusting the cable. Did that and the mower was a champ again for about 100' or five minutes.

When I had the wheels off previously everything there looked fine. I have the "locking up when pulling backwards" problem but I think that's unrelated. I'll get to it...

Do I need to order a new transmission? Given the age, I've got no problem with that. If I get another 17 years out of it, it'll be the last mower I ever buy.

Thanks in advance,
Greg in Dayton, OH
 

Briantii

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Assuming it works like mine and most others I've seen, you may actually want to fix the pulling backwards issue first. When you pull backwards any resistance in the system will be evident. That same resistance must be overcome by the drive system when moving forward under self propelled. When just pushing it forward with no self propelled, it bypasses the transmission and drive shaft due to the ratcheting pinion gears that are in each wheel. Hopefully that makes some sense, sadly the pulling backwards issue is indicative of a larger problem, but is typically only NOTICED when pulling backwards since the self propelled typically can over power the resistance.
 

rePhil

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Where's Robert@Honda when you need him? I really wish he would come back. I don't have all the answers and we don't share the same model, but searches will reveal a lot of good information.
Here's a schematic from where I have been sourcing parts. I have no connection other than being a satisfied customer. https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oe...70022d24bdbae4/transmission-tda-tdaa-txa-txaa

Here's a youtube about locking rear wheels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubnpTirPBu4

Some things I have discovered while servicing my own transmission, are that HONDA HST oil is the recommended oil. I could not source it locally, so I purchased online. The other thing is to inspect the bushings and seals located in the adjusting arms. I can't locate the source now but I remember reading that a sloppy fit here is a possible cause of transmission failure. Whether right to wrong, mine were bad. I replaced the arms and plates. Also get everything you think will need at once, like snap rings etc. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
 

soundchasm

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Assuming it works like mine and most others I've seen, you may actually want to fix the pulling backwards issue first. When you pull backwards any resistance in the system will be evident. That same resistance must be overcome by the drive system when moving forward under self propelled. When just pushing it forward with no self propelled, it bypasses the transmission and drive shaft due to the ratcheting pinion gears that are in each wheel. Hopefully that makes some sense, sadly the pulling backwards issue is indicative of a larger problem, but is typically only NOTICED when pulling backwards since the self propelled typically can over power the resistance.

Wow, that's a thought that hadn't occurred to me. I never get the impression that I am free-wheeling when I push the mower forward before I start it.

There are precious few areas where my skill level is exceptional, and I am positively remedial concerning things mechanical. I can generally do something by trying to do it, then having to re-do it, and maybe re-do it again, finish it up, and then spot a washer that ought to go somewhere...

I need to go get one of those tools for removing circlips(?) and set up a net to catch it when it goes flying. ;-)

THANKS!
 

soundchasm

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Where's * when you need him? I really wish he would come back. I don't have all the answers and we don't share the same model, but searches will reveal a lot of good information.
Here's a schematic from where I have been sourcing parts. I have no connection other than being a satisfied customer.

Here's a youtube about locking rear wheels:
Some things I have discovered while servicing my own transmission, are that HONDA HST oil is the recommended oil. I could not source it locally, so I purchased online. The other thing is to inspect the bushings and seals located in the adjusting arms. I can't locate the source now but I remember reading that a sloppy fit here is a possible cause of transmission failure. Whether right to wrong, mine were bad. I replaced the arms and plates. Also get everything you think will need at once, like snap rings etc. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


Hey, that's a great source for parts. The tranny is a buck and a quarter at ereplacementparts. I know next to nothing about the transmission. If I can get the thing out, more will be revealed, I'm sure. I recall that it was mainly luck that got a spring reattached when I did the pulley! ;-)

And I have watched that very video a couple of times searching for any solution that avoided removing the transmission. :->

Thank you!

Thanks!

PS - Had to edit out the links. I can't post links until I have a total of five posts. Now that's funny.
 

Briantii

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Wow, that's a thought that hadn't occurred to me. I never get the impression that I am free-wheeling when I push the mower forward before I start it.

There are precious few areas where my skill level is exceptional, and I am positively remedial concerning things mechanical. I can generally do something by trying to do it, then having to re-do it, and maybe re-do it again, finish it up, and then spot a washer that ought to go somewhere...

I need to go get one of those tools for removing circlips(?) and set up a net to catch it when it goes flying. ;-)

THANKS!

Yeah so according to the diagram posted that model uses the same annoying design mine does. The first place to look at is part 6 & 7 in this diagram. Circlip pliers aren't too expensive and nice to have anyway. Hopefully nothing goes flying. Just keep track of what comes out and how the gear is oriented on that drive shaft. If parts 6 and 7 are causing too much drag it could for sure also cause problems with self propelled. Pushing forward the drive shaft and transmission on your will NOT spin. Only when you pull back or engage self propelled will the driveshaft move.

https://www.cyclepartsnation.com/oemparts/a/hpe/505ce3e5f870022d24bdbae5/rear-wheel

Hope that helps, feel free to ask if you have questions. Its a pain to deal but not hard.
 

soundchasm

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Yeah so according to the diagram posted that model uses the same annoying design mine does. The first place to look at is part 6 & 7 in this diagram. Circlip pliers aren't too expensive and nice to have anyway. Hopefully nothing goes flying. Just keep track of what comes out and how the gear is oriented on that drive shaft. If parts 6 and 7 are causing too much drag it could for sure also cause problems with self propelled. Pushing forward the drive shaft and transmission on your will NOT spin. Only when you pull back or engage self propelled will the driveshaft move.



Hope that helps, feel free to ask if you have questions. Its a pain to deal but not hard.

"Same annoying design" - that's great!! Well, not great that we have to deal with it, but at least there's some dark humor to be found.

OK, circlip pliers tomorrow, and then we shall see what we shall see!

Thanks.
 

soundchasm

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Yeah so according to the diagram posted that model uses the same annoying design mine does. The first place to look at is part 6 & 7 in this diagram. Circlip pliers aren't too expensive and nice to have anyway. Hopefully nothing goes flying. Just keep track of what comes out and how the gear is oriented on that drive shaft. If parts 6 and 7 are causing too much drag it could for sure also cause problems with self propelled. Pushing forward the drive shaft and transmission on your will NOT spin. Only when you pull back or engage self propelled will the driveshaft move.



Hope that helps, feel free to ask if you have questions. Its a pain to deal but not hard.

I appreciate you having a picture to look at. That really helps.

I got a bunch of the mower apart. Methinks the video glossed over juuuuust a bit of detail getting the transmission out. I've slept since then, but I think I-
took off the wheels
took off the blade
took the circlips off on the inside of the deck.
took off the cover underneath
pried the belt off the drive pulley (just spun it off, no violence)
Got the spring off the transmission


THEN the axle was somewhat free. Still have cables connecting the thing.

My bushings are two short halves and not one piece. I have a good selection of grits here. I think I'll spend more time with the fine grits and finish it off with 000 steel wool.

I'll sand the axle in place. It'll be a little harder and I reckon I'll learn how to disconnect it if I replace the transmission.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Greg
 

Briantii

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I appreciate you having a picture to look at. That really helps.

I got a bunch of the mower apart. Methinks the video glossed over juuuuust a bit of detail getting the transmission out. I've slept since then, but I think I-
took off the wheels
took off the blade
took the circlips off on the inside of the deck.
took off the cover underneath
pried the belt off the drive pulley (just spun it off, no violence)
Got the spring off the transmission


THEN the axle was somewhat free. Still have cables connecting the thing.

My bushings are two short halves and not one piece. I have a good selection of grits here. I think I'll spend more time with the fine grits and finish it off with 000 steel wool.

I'll sand the axle in place. It'll be a little harder and I reckon I'll learn how to disconnect it if I replace the transmission.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Greg

No problem, I’d absolutely leave the transmission in place unless I had to remove it. Obviously be sure to check belt condition and see how the trans turns without the bushings. Hopefully smooth. You’re right, most of the videos gloss over some steps that are required to have the whole make sense. Just go slow, take pictures, notes and / or look at the parts diagrams and you should be ok. It’s annoying, but gets easier the more times you do it. Sadly if you plan on keeping it for a while this probably won’t be the only time you have to do it.
 

soundchasm

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Quick shot of the difference is gear wear. I may fiddle and see if I can turn one around. Who knows?

DSCN1755.jpgDSCN1756.jpg
 
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