Honda HRR2169VYA suring, unstable idle speed. Carburetor clean. Used a dozen times.

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums, and well, new to owning my own lawnmower, and I've got a question regarding my Honda HRR2169VYA mower.

I bought it at the end of last season, after purchasing a home, and used it twice before running the gas empty and storing it for the winter. It worked as it should. It also worked find at the beginning of this season, probably the first 4-6 mowings.

Then it started this idle surging problem. There's even a tiny hint of the surge at times when its running full RPM, but it still cuts the grass. However, moving the throttle lever away from fast (rabbit) and toward slow (turtle) does kill the engine pretty fast with almost not change in RPM before dying. I haven't really had it long enough to be certain, but it may not handle longer grass as well as it did a couple months ago, even though it gets through it.

The carburetor is clean. I took it apart, cleaned it and blew it out, even though everything was already appeared "sparkling" clean and I could clearly see through all holes in both jet nozzles (upper and lower I'll call them). I reassembled it and nothing changed - still pulses at idle.

I'm looking for advice and a next step on how to proceed. I'd love to see a photo or better yet, schematic, of the part if anyone has one (just to be sure a screw isn't missing or something, as I've read that can be the case). I really thought I'd run into a solution online without having to post, as you almost never face a problem like this that someone else hasn't already fixed, but I've done a lot of searching and nothing has been the answer so far.


[Now a more "advanced" question. I'm concerned that the 2nd time I re-installed the carburetor I stripped the internal threads for one of the long bolts. It fits snug enough to run, in the same surging way as before, but I'm scared I've wrecked the eventual life of my mower already. I have a tap and die set. Anyone have experience or a suggestion on how to correct or repair this? I can't imagine re-tapping the hole does much good when the material is already damaged, and I'm not sure if any type of thread locker would help or not in this situation. Is it even possible to get a different spec bolt and re-tap a hole like this?]

Thanks everyone. Considering my first mower of the same model was a lemon right at the bat, and returned, I've got a feeling I'll be hanging around here a lot.

joeyjoey said:

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forums, and well, new to owning my own lawnmower, and I've got a question regarding my Honda HRR2169VYA mower.

Then it started this idle surging problem. There's even a tiny hint of the surge at times when its running full RPM, but it still cuts the grass. However, moving the throttle lever away from fast (rabbit) and toward slow (turtle) does kill the engine pretty fast with almost not change in RPM before dying.

The carburetor is clean. I took it apart, cleaned it and blew it out, even though everything was already appeared "sparkling" clean and I could clearly see through all holes in both jet nozzles (upper and lower I'll call them). I reassembled it and nothing changed - still pulses at idle.

[Now a more "advanced" question. I'm concerned that the 2nd time I re-installed the carburetor I stripped the internal threads for one of the long bolts. It fits snug enough to run, in the same surging way as before, but I'm scared I've wrecked the eventual life of my mower already. I have a tap and die set. Anyone have experience or a suggestion on how to correct or repair this? I can't imagine re-tapping the hole does much good when the material is already damaged, and I'm not sure if any type of thread locker would help or not in this situation. Is it even possible to get a different spec bolt and re-tap a hole like this?]

Click to expand...

Surging is a fairly common complaint with mowers these days. All use venturi-style carburetors, and while simple in design, they can be picky about having perfect fuel, and perfect air/gas ratios or will be hard to start, or just not run smoothly. Common areas are:

Dirt/debris inside the carburetor (somewhere..too lean condition)
Clogged air filter (creates a excessive-fuel "rich" condition)
Incorrectly operating choke (you have an autochoke on this model)
Vacuum leak (failed gasket, incorrectly installed gasket, non-airtight seal on any one of the carburetor insulators, spacers, etc.)
Fouled spark plug

The mower should idle smoothly when set to slow (turtle) and not shut-down unless the throttle is moved to OFF. This could be an out-of-adjustment cable or throttle stop screw on the carburetor.

If you'll share the serial number with me, I can tell you of any pending service bulletins that might be part of the problem. Look on the back of the mower deck:


In some cases, it can be easier/faster/simpler to just replace the carburetor, especially if everything else looks correct (fuel, spark plug, linkage, springs, etc.) Often this is only a $20 part, and I'd fit new gaskets at the same time.

For the stripped threads in the block, I'd suggest a heli-coil kit; get the 6x1 kit like this:
M6x1 kit

You may also wish to replace the long flange bolts with studs and nuts; this way, future carb work only requires the nuts to be removed, and the studs stay secure in the block. Honda recommends using studs when servicing these carburetors to simplify installation, but it's a neat thing to leave them in place (6 x 83 mm studs, Honda Part Number 90013-ZG9-T00):



6mm flange nut, Honda Part Number 18362-720-000.

robert@honda said:

Surging is a fairly common complaint with mowers these days. All use venturi-style carburetors, and while simple in design, they can be picky about having perfect fuel, and perfect air/gas ratios or will be hard to start, or just not run smoothly. Common areas are:

Dirt/debris inside the carburetor (somewhere..too lean condition)
Clogged air filter (creates a excessive-fuel "rich" condition)
Incorrectly operating choke (you have an autochoke on this model)
Vacuum leak (failed gasket, incorrectly installed gasket, non-airtight seal on any one of the carburetor insulators, spacers, etc.)
Fouled spark plug

The mower should idle smoothly when set to slow (turtle) and not shut-down unless the throttle is moved to OFF. This could be an out-of-adjustment cable or throttle stop screw on the carburetor.

If you'll share the serial number with me, I can tell you of any pending service bulletins that might be part of the problem. Look on the back of the mower deck:

In some cases, it can be easier/faster/simpler to just replace the carburetor, especially if everything else looks correct (fuel, spark plug, linkage, springs, etc.) Often this is only a $20 part, and I'd fit new gaskets at the same time.

For the stripped threads in the block, I'd suggest a heli-coil kit; get the 6x1 kit like this:
M6x1 kit

You may also wish to replace the long flange bolts with studs and nuts; this way, future carb work only requires the nuts to be removed, and the studs stay secure in the block. Honda recommends using studs when servicing these carburetors to simplify installation, but it's a neat thing to leave them in place (6 x 83 mm studs, Honda Part Number 90013-ZG9-T00):

6mm flange nut, Honda Part Number 18362-720-000.

Click to expand...

Thanks Robert for the immensely useful reply. I don't think I've ever gotten so much useful advice from a single reply to message board post, not in any forum. Those studs would definitely be the way to go - too bad the mowers don't simply come that way. I will also be picking up a heli-coil kit now I'm sure, too. As for the surging itself, I'm suspicious a cable adjustment may be needed - although when I was just playing around with the tension with my fingers all the mower would do is continue to surge at higher RPMs. I realize my fingers probably aren't capable of providing a proper, consistent tension though. Adjusting the throttle stop screw actually did nothing when I tried it before. I tried a full turn (in increments) in both directions before putting it back in the original position, but maybe the fact that it didn't change anything is a clue. Until I saw your post, my next step was going to be examining the spark plug, as to my surprise a local tech here suggested that could be the problem over the phone. It's a very repetitive surging pattern, with a period of about a second or so. Also, it's probably a little ill-advised, but I very briefly removed the air filter to see if that changed the surging pattern and it changed nothing.

Serial number MZCG-87487XX, if that works.
Edit: That may actually be the serial number from the mower I had to return DOA. I'll check in the daylight tomorrow, but hate to miss a chance for any further advice from you.

Thanks!!!

Can you tell me how to remove this carb?

Thanks

joeyjoey said:

Thanks Robert for the immensely useful reply. I don't think I've ever gotten so much useful advice from a single reply to message board post, not in any forum. Those studs would definitely be the way to go - too bad the mowers don't simply come that way. I will also be picking up a heli-coil kit now I'm sure, too. As for the surging itself, I'm suspicious a cable adjustment may be needed - although when I was just playing around with the tension with my fingers all the mower would do is continue to surge at higher RPMs. I realize my fingers probably aren't capable of providing a proper, consistent tension though. Adjusting the throttle stop screw actually did nothing when I tried it before. I tried a full turn (in increments) in both directions before putting it back in the original position, but maybe the fact that it didn't change anything is a clue. Until I saw your post, my next step was going to be examining the spark plug, as to my surprise a local tech here suggested that could be the problem over the phone. It's a very repetitive surging pattern, with a period of about a second or so. Also, it's probably a little ill-advised, but I very briefly removed the air filter to see if that changed the surging pattern and it changed nothing.

Serial number MZCG-87487XX, if that works.
Edit: That may actually be the serial number from the mower I had to return DOA. I'll check in the daylight tomorrow, but hate to miss a chance for any further advice from you.

Thanks!!!

Click to expand...

timlad said:

Can you tell me how to remove this carb?

Thanks

Click to expand...

Yes, I posted a detailed procedure for you in the other thread:

[url]http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/honda-forum/30003-honda-hhr-216vya.html[/URL]

I have the same model and the same problem a new carb and actuator fixed it for me, some info for other people if they need it.

Honda HRR216 surges won't idle, cleaned carb.

Tools needed:

10 mm socket
3/8" x 6inch extension
3/8"ratchet
Needle nose plyers (right angle ones are best)
One tube Permatex "high tack"
scrap chunks of 2x4's
one 32 gal Rubbermaid garbage can (thin wall one)

Watch this video first even if your not
going to replace your choke actuator

https://www.repairclinic.com/Video/...owax-Choke-Actuator-Replacement-16620-Z8D-305


Get your full model number off tag on deck
something like this:
HRR216K9vYA * Note Honda leave's out the "K" on
the tag but you need the "k" to find the part's

Once you have your model number go to Repair clinic.com
and order:

Actuator (auto chcke wax motor) About $10 bucks.
Good to replace while you have apart.

Carb about $17 bucks

(4) gaskets

one from block to choke plate
one from choke plate to carb
one from carb to mounting plate
one from mounting plate to airbox
all gaskets about $10 bucks

Shut off gas valve

Run motor until carb runs out of gas (if it runs)

Pull spark plug boot so it wont start

It's best to set the mower up waist high on anything
for this next part so you are not hunched over.

Turn mower on it's side (air filter up) use the 2x4's to "level the mower"

Remove air filter cover

Remove 2 10 mm bolts

Slowly pull cover up and remove breather hose

With right angle needle nose plyers pinch gas line clamp together and push
away from carb
with twisting motion (twist and pull gas line off

Turn carb at angle and remove linkage

Remove spring (note the hole it's in)

All the old gaskets should come off easy, keep as they
give you clue's on which one goes where and which way
by the indentations left in the paper.pay attention
to these marks.

Remove the actuator (for auto choke) and install new.
(just yank out with needle nose).

Now the party begin's:

Honda expect's you to install 4 gaskets, a carb,choke block,and airbox
all in one go.

Take a small amount of permatex and apply to both sides of
gasket that goes on block (make sure it's right direction)
let set till it wont move easy.

Install choke block, after each item you install, push the mounting
bolts through and align gaskets and thread in a little.

Install linkage and spring

Install gas line and clamp

Repeat with a thin coating both sides of permatex on gaskets to hold
in place so they don't move easy.

Install airbox, install bolts, then push breather hose on airbox.

Tighten bolts evenly and make sure they are good and snug.

Replace air filter and cover.

Turn gas valve on and push spark plug boot back on.

If things are not "lining up" kick the 32 gallon trash can.
it wont hurt your foot or the can.And keep trying.