HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix

RicB

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
The rear wheels completely lock up when attempting to pull it backwards about 80% of the time. A local Honda dealer has had this mower for close to 2 months now and in their own words, "we are clueless". A Honda rep was called in and recommended replacing pulleys and the belt. They said that fix made the problem even worse. When I bought this mower, I noticed that the left front wheel rides in the air when on a level surface. I should have returned it but didn't, as it didn't seem to affect the functioning of the mower. Is it possible that a mis alignment of the deck/wheels is causing the lock up condition? I last spoke with them 1 week ago and they stated that they were calling the rep in again, but I haven't heard anything back from them yet.
 

robert@honda

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
The rear wheels completely lock up when attempting to pull it backwards about 80% of the time. A local Honda dealer has had this mower for close to 2 months now and in their own words, "we are clueless". A Honda rep was called in and recommended replacing pulleys and the belt. They said that fix made the problem even worse. When I bought this mower, I noticed that the left front wheel rides in the air when on a level surface. I should have returned it but didn't, as it didn't seem to affect the functioning of the mower. Is it possible that a mis alignment of the deck/wheels is causing the lock up condition? I last spoke with them 1 week ago and they stated that they were calling the rep in again, but I haven't heard anything back from them yet.

If the dealer has not already looked at it, tell them to review the most current HRR shop manual; in the section 2.7, there's an entire section on Drive System Troubleshooting, including the most recent K8 and K9 models (you have a K8). There are some specific tests and procedures which should quickly determine the true cause of the problems.

A slightly floating wheel is not a big deal. It sometimes happens due to ever-so-slight variations in steels and desk tooling, but has been found NOT to affect cut/finish quality.

If you feel the dealer is not responding in good faith or meeting your expectations, you are welcome to contact Honda Customer Relations 770-497-6400
 

RicB

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
Thank you for the reply Robert. The dealer initially adjusted the smartdrive cable, disassembled the wheels, cleaning and lubing the ratchets, cleaned/lubed the axles and bushings. Whether or not they did any other troubleshooting, I don't know. When this didn't fix it, they called in the Honda rep, for some "schooling", as they put it. Their main business is John Deere and have only been selling Hondas for a couple of years now and may not have run into this type of problem before. I know this is a very busy time of year for these folks and since I didn't buy the mower from them, realize that they might give a higher priority to someone who purchased their equipment there. I can't fault them for that.

I have had some issues also with cold starts. Sometimes it starts up on the 1st or 2nd pull, other times it may take 15 or more. Once warmed up, it restarts with no problem. I took the air filter off one day when it was acting up and discovered the choke plate was open with the engine cold, so the problem seems to be with the auto choke. My pressure washer has the same Honda engine, but with a manual choke. It never fails to start right up. My question is, can my mower be fitted with the same manual choke? I see that in another thread, you posted a service bulletin #98. As I read it, it would not seem to apply in my case would it? The serial# is MZCG-8414370.
 

robert@honda

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
Thank you for the reply Robert. The dealer initially adjusted the smartdrive cable, disassembled the wheels, cleaning and lubing the ratchets, cleaned/lubed the axles and bushings. Whether or not they did any other troubleshooting, I don't know. When this didn't fix it, they called in the Honda rep, for some "schooling", as they put it. Their main business is John Deere and have only been selling Hondas for a couple of years now and may not have run into this type of problem before. I know this is a very busy time of year for these folks and since I didn't buy the mower from them, realize that they might give a higher priority to someone who purchased their equipment there. I can't fault them for that.

I have had some issues also with cold starts. Sometimes it starts up on the 1st or 2nd pull, other times it may take 15 or more. Once warmed up, it restarts with no problem. I took the air filter off one day when it was acting up and discovered the choke plate was open with the engine cold, so the problem seems to be with the auto choke. My pressure washer has the same Honda engine, but with a manual choke. It never fails to start right up. My question is, can my mower be fitted with the same manual choke? I see that in another thread, you posted a service bulletin #98. As I read it, it would not seem to apply in my case would it? The serial# is MZCG-8414370.

Your serial number IS in the affected range of mowers that may have a restart problem if the engine has not been fully warmed up. Per the bulletin, a typical problem can happen if you start a cold engine, then shut it down before it warms up, and try an restart it up again. The fix is to replace the thermo-wax cylinder, and use a proper amount of HondaBond HT to ensure correct heat transfer. Finally, the choke control assembly should be inspected and tested for any binding. New gaskets wrap up the job.

Your serial number shows the mower was sold at retail on 3/3/2012, with full factory warranty in effect until 3/2/2016. From what you've told me, it appears both problems should be covered under Honda's warranty, but double-check with your dealer to be sure and before authorizing any repairs.
 

Ric

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
The rear wheels completely lock up when attempting to pull it backwards about 80% of the time. A local Honda dealer has had this mower for close to 2 months now and in their own words, "we are clueless". A Honda rep was called in and recommended replacing pulleys and the belt. They said that fix made the problem even worse. When I bought this mower, I noticed that the left front wheel rides in the air when on a level surface. I should have returned it but didn't, as it didn't seem to affect the functioning of the mower. Is it possible that a mis alignment of the deck/wheels is causing the lock up condition? I last spoke with them 1 week ago and they stated that they were calling the rep in again, but I haven't heard anything back from them yet.

The rear wheels locking up is common for the the Honda, I've owned three and all have done the same thing and as your dealer said everyone is clueless. It can be fixed but they will not do what needs to be done at the shop to fix it and you probably wouldn't like the fix. It's called grease.
 

RicB

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
The rear wheels locking up is common for the the Honda, I've owned three and all have done the same thing and as your dealer said everyone is clueless. It can be fixed but they will not do what needs to be done at the shop to fix it and you probably wouldn't like the fix. It's called grease.

Well, the dealer called this morning and said they "thought" the mower was fixed. I went to pick it up and the wheels were locked up solid (going backwards). They said that the Honda rep had sent to them "an updated adjustment procedure for the transaxle". They also had adjusted the smart drive cable, yet again, loosening it to the point that the drive belt had so little tension as to be useless. I didn't have any confidence at this point that they were ever going to repair it, so brought it home.

Ric, your reply didn't make much sense to me at first because after I initially took the mower in, the mechanic told me that he had taken the wheel assembly all apart and cleaned and lubed everything (ratchets, axle, etc.) and it still didn't help. After getting it home today, I was piddling around with it a little and your mention of grease was in the back of my mind. Looking up underneath the deck where the axle runs through the deck/wheel adjuster bushings, I was expecting to see where a little bit of grease had worked out from between the bushings and axle, but it looked dry. I didn't know how to take that apart, so squirted a fair amount of an oil that I have called Tri-Flow, into that area, just to see if it would loosen things up. It helped, quite a bit in fact for a little while, but I didn't expect a light oil to really work where a grease was called for. I decided then to see what else wasn't greased and took off a wheel and the gear/ratchet. There was some caked on crud and NO grease, it was dry as a bone. I cleaned it up and applied some white lithium grease, the wheel bearing grease I have seemed too heavy for this application. I did the same to the other wheel then spent the next 20 minutes or so mowing and working it back and forth around my shrubs and whatnot. It didn't lock up ONCE. In another week or so my yard will need mowing again and I can give it a better workout then over the entire yard, but it is looking promising. I appreciate your advice on this.

Robert, thank you for your help as well. I am hoping that I have a better understanding of what is going on here now. I am assuming that I need to order a shop manual from Honda's Ebay store now and figure out how to get some grease into the deck/adjuster bushings that the axle rides on. Or is this teflon based oil that I have sufficient?
 

RicB

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
This is a photo I snapped of the left wheel just as it appeared, after disassembling it. I expected to see GREASE, but it was completely dry.
 

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robert@honda

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
Robert, thank you for your help as well. I am hoping that I have a better understanding of what is going on here now. I am assuming that I need to order a shop manual from Honda's Ebay store now and figure out how to get some grease into the deck/adjuster bushings that the axle rides on. Or is this teflon based oil that I have sufficient?

Sorry to hear of the poor service at that dealer, even after the Honda rep was involved. That's very frustrating for both of us. :mad:

A shop manual is a excellent resource to have. A variant of that old saying "Tools, Talent, Technical Information: Pick two, and you can get the job done" surely applies to lawn mower maintenance and repair. I would ask you to send me a PM with your email and the serial number off the back of the mower deck "MXXX-1234567" and let me give you some help in that area, Ric.

Any off-the-shelf NLGI Grade #2 general purpose lithium-type grease is suitable for lubrication on shafts, axles, gears, pivots, etc. A quick Google gets this:

Castrol MP Multi-Purpose Chassis Grease NLGI #2 lithium based (14.5 OZ TUBE) | Product Details | Pep Boys

Here's the two locations on the real axle where grease is absolutely needed:

hrr2168vkarearwheelgreaselocation_zpse7ba3af3.jpg
 

RicB

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
Sorry to hear of the poor service at that dealer, even after the Honda rep was involved. That's very frustrating for both of us. :mad:

A shop manual is a excellent resource to have. A variant of that old saying "Tools, Talent, Technical Information: Pick two, and you can get the job done" surely applies to lawn mower maintenance and repair. I would ask you to send me a PM with your email and the serial number off the back of the mower deck "MXXX-1234567" and let me give you some help in that area, Ric.

Any off-the-shelf NLGI Grade #2 general purpose lithium-type grease is suitable for lubrication on shafts, axles, gears, pivots, etc. A quick Google gets this:

Castrol MP Multi-Purpose Chassis Grease NLGI #2 lithium based (14.5 OZ TUBE) | Product Details | Pep Boys

Here's the two locations on the real axle where grease is absolutely needed:

It looks like the NLGI #2 mp lithium grease that I used will work. Thanks you much for that diagram. The locations for the grease are especially helpful. The one problem that I ran into was in removing the circlips. The Craftsman snap ring pliers that I have, just were not up to the job. The larger tips were too large to fit into the holes and the smaller tips broke too easily. Does this pair look as though they would be sufficient? I don't have access to a tool truck so will need to find something in a store or online.

Thank you again for all of your help.
 

Ragnrok23

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  • / HRR2168VKA rear wheels locking up - dealer can't seem to fix
Sorry to hear of the poor service at that dealer, even after the Honda rep was involved. That's very frustrating for both of us. :mad:

A shop manual is a excellent resource to have. A variant of that old saying "Tools, Talent, Technical Information: Pick two, and you can get the job done" surely applies to lawn mower maintenance and repair. I would ask you to send me a PM with your email and the serial number off the back of the mower deck "MXXX-1234567" and let me give you some help in that area, Ric.

Any off-the-shelf NLGI Grade #2 general purpose lithium-type grease is suitable for lubrication on shafts, axles, gears, pivots, etc. A quick Google gets this:

Castrol MP Multi-Purpose Chassis Grease NLGI #2 lithium based (14.5 OZ TUBE) | Product Details | Pep Boys

Here's the two locations on the real axle where grease is absolutely needed:

hrr2168vkarearwheelgreaselocation_zpse7ba3af3.jpg

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I just got a new HRX217HYA, mowed for the first time last night. My "passenger" side rear wheel kept slipping out of it's hight. I tried tightening the bolt on the outside, but it was already pretty tight. I see there are a lot of parts between the two points, so I was curious where I should concentrate my efforts on?

Thanks!
 
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