Are you a member of the NRA ?

Are you a member of the NRA ?


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Roger B

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Bertman,

Remain calm my friend. I am an Endowment Life Member of the NRA and a stalwart believer in the rights of the individual.. Always remember that the USA is a Republic, NOT a democracy. That we currently seem to be breeding ratschitt-rabid-nut cases, is a bit of a sticky wicket, but as has been pointed out previously by others, not much out of proportion to our norm..

The most sickening video I have ever witnessed was bulldozers crushing firearms in the land of OZ! If an individual does not have the right to protect the life of himself and his family, he has nothing. I would prefer to live with freedom, regardless of it's price..

Roger
 

bertsmobile1

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Bertman,

Remain calm my friend. I am an Endowment Life Member of the NRA and a stalwart believer in the rights of the individual.. Always remember that the USA is a Republic, NOT a democracy. That we currently seem to be breeding ratschitt-rabid-nut cases, is a bit of a sticky wicket, but as has been pointed out previously by others, not much out of proportion to our norm..

The most sickening video I have ever witnessed was bulldozers crushing firearms in the land of OZ! If an individual does not have the right to protect the life of himself and his family, he has nothing. I would prefer to live with freedom, regardless of it's price..

Roger

Rodger,

You should know that I don't get hot & bothered by anything.
I have relations in South Africa where they sleep with firearms under their pillow to protect themselves from vigalantie black men.
To date more of the whites have been shot by each other accidentially ( or so they say ) than being shot by home invaiders.

A an ex- military man you should have been taught hand to hand and realize that a knife, sword, machette , hammer, chainsaw etc etc etc can all kill but can be defended against.
You can not do the same thing with a fire arm except with another fire arm.
So either no one is armed or everyone is armed.
Arming everyone means that lots of people with serious mental problems will end up armed or even worse, people under extreme emotional distress and acting in a temporary irrational mannar will also have easy access to a fire arm
Down here most shootings were a crime of passion and in the bulk of these cases innocent by-standers were also hit, in fact more by-standers were hit than any one else.
As people are people world wide I would expect it was some what similar over there.

If you know a single case where a by-stander whipped out a fire arm and protected the public, including their own family from a gun toting offender, I would be interested.
I am yet to hear a single law enforcement officer in any capacity saying it would be better if every one was carrying and come to think of it haven't heard the same from any military offical either.

As an ex-military person you should also know that the only time a person hits the target with every round in a uncontrolled ( real , not range ) situation is in movies & TV shows.

The idea that you are protecting your family by having an arsenal at their disposal is as silly as thinking you are providing for your family by buying a stack of lottery tickets.

You can protect your family by creating an enviroment where they are neither under threat nor feel threatened.
Otherwise you would have to be carrying 24/7 and always on alert for potential threats.
That means you are in a perpetul state of combat, and being combat aware is very stressful & tiring , as you should know.
If the fire arms are to "protect your family" then they have to be carrying 24/7 as well or a firearm has to be within arms reach at all times.

Now I have no objection to owning a fire arm, if you have a real need for one & have been properly trained, which is the case down here.
There are over 1,000,000 registered firearm owners down here, so that is about 4%.
However they can not carry in public so I don't have to size up every person walking through the workshop gate just in case they are carrying.
Our firemen ( and women ) know when they attend a house fire if there are firearms in there, so it makes their job easier as they know if they are in danger from exploding ordinance .
 

Ronno6

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Fish

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""If you know a single case where a by-stander whipped out a fire arm and protected the public, including their own family from a gun toting offender, I would be interested.""

That statement is quite silly, as we could do a simple search and come up with hundreds of examples in a short amount of time. Is your country's press heavily censored/stifled like it is in Britain? That may explain your views. Living in a country with restricted freedoms really affects the clear thinking of it's subjects. They tend to accept things that we here would find repulsive....
 

Ronno6

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""If you know a single case where a by-stander whipped out a fire arm and protected the public, including their own family from a gun toting offender, I would be interested.""

That statement is quite silly, as we could do a simple search and come up with hundreds of examples in a short amount of time. Is your country's press heavily censored/stifled like it is in Britain? That may explain your views. Living in a country with restricted freedoms really affects the clear thinking of it's subjects. They tend to accept things that we here would find repulsive....

Uh oh........looks like the gauntlet has been thrown down....................

Bert's gettin' his fingers warmed up........
 

bertsmobile1

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No,
like most of the worlds press, ours go for the sensational.
You can search for Mass shootings .
You can search for family shootings
However searching for shootings where bystanders came to the defence of others is a lot harder.

We usually just get how many people were killed or injured, after that details are scant & regularly wrong.
I have a mind , not just an opinion.

And again like most polar things, all those who publish statistics skew them to support whichever side they are pushing.
Thus the information needed to make a proper objective opinion is difficult to obtain.
There are better than a dozen sites that catalogue "mass shootings" and depending upon their bias the definition of "mass" shootings varies from 2 + the shooter to 6 + the shooter.
Some will only include deaths at the site of the shooting, & ignore those who died latter on .
Some ignore any one who is not killed
Others include every one as a victim even if they just got a band aid over a graze.

None seem to catalogue shootings into types in a manner that is objective & useful.
Because we have very few shootings so our researchers tend to do a lot more classifing
Things like single suicides , murder suicides due to depression , euthenasia + suicide .
Emotional shootings ( jilted lovers , unfaithful partners etc )
Strait planned murders
Psychopaths
Gangland shootings
Etc etc etc

Without that it is difficult to work out if the lives of the general public would be more or less danger if fireams are easier or more difficult to obtain.
From what good quality research that is availible down here it apears that restrictions on fire arms, remember they are not banned, has been a very very good thing for the general public.
No one can stop your partner killing you should they decide to, in fact no one can stop any one killing anyone else should they decide to do so. It is just not physically possible.
We can not even do that in highly regulated & secured enviroments like prisions so there is no chance of doing it in the open .
For most people it is hard to pull a trigger on another person, however it is a lot harder to stab , slash or club another person.

Since fire arms were restricted, the number on one on one emotionally triggered shootings has dropped to almost zero.
Emotional violence has not stopped & never will and it seems that guns have been replaced by cars & running down your partner or the "other person" has become the popular resort to violence.
However fewer people have died from being attacked by a car that died from being shot and a lot fewer by standers have been killed or seriously injured .

Bank robbers now threaten tellers with knives or syringes but these are easily defended against and very few bystanders 20' away end up injured in such attacks.

In the heat of the moment you can bash some one with a club, stab them, kick them, whatever and in most cases they will survive the attack & most will fully recover in time.
However when you pull a trigger in the heat of the moment the victim generally bleed to death before the ambulance arrives and very few will recover.
This is even worse if the trigger is on a fully automatic / rapid fire weapon of the type that is rightfully banned down here.

Now we do not have large preditors that are difficult to bring down here so allowing hunters rapid fire or fully automatic weapons might be justifiable, but then again most of the hunters I know tell me if you can not bring down your target with a single shot you should not be hunting.
 

Fish

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True, the search engines are skewed, corrupt. That is the scariest thing of all.
 

bertsmobile1

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Yes,
Go to the suicide prevention sites and look at their gun statistics then pop over to the NRA and see if there is a difference in the numbers quoted and more importantly how they are grouped.
The NRA put forward a male fantasy image of the children huddled behind mum's skirt who is standing behind dad, reloading.
Dad is there, guns blaizing blowing the intruders into oblivion.

In reality if you really want your family to be safe, buy a dog, or better still 3 dogs, train them right & treat them good.
So your family gets the joy only a faithful dog can bring and those who would do your family harm have 3 fearless defenders to deal with.
Shooting a moving dog is very difficult thing to do, knocking down 3 of them near impossible.
Training the dogs not to eat anything that you have not given them defeats the only real threat to them protecting your family, being baited.
They will also protect from snakes , usually keep your yard free of most wild life and be on guard 24/7 regardless of weather you are there or 200 miles away at a NRA gun support rally.
 

Fish

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Shooting a moving dog?
You mean the intruders will have guns?
And I cannot?
 
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