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ZTS 6000 - Always at full speed.

#1

L

Leaky8

Hi,
I'm a newbie. The grass season is here and I have been remiss in getting ready.

At the end of last mowing season, I was finishing my last mowing for the year (5 acres)
and noticed a change in engine speed. I never really gave it that much thought UNTIL
I went to put it at idle and could not. It was if I had lost linkage or something. It was
dark and I told myself I would get to it. Well I didn't.

Engine starts fine, but goes to full throttle immediately.
The Control lever works fine and it operates linkages under Carb.
It will also CLOSE the choke when put in Start Posit.
However, lever has NO effect on engine speed.

Using the manual, I compared parts and it looks like everything is in place.
The Governor moves freely and it has it's 2 springs which are hard to see.

Just seems like something is missing. Any ideas or help would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks.
Leaky

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#2

L

Luffydog

Welcome aboard:thumbsup: gonna need engine numbers so we can help find your prob. By looking at the pic from what I see possibly a Briggs. Get those numbers and post back so we can better help u find the prob.


#3

L

Leaky8

Hi,

I didn't include sufficient data.
From: Data Plate under the seat.
ZTS 6000
26/52 BS 107.289920
Date Code: 012809 2013 469663 170506

Not to confuse things.
There is another white paper label:
Build Date: 01.09
Model-4458770132B1
Serial-090106YG02532

Thanks.

Leaky


#4

Boobala

Boobala

After looking at your pic, it appears the governor arm may have missing, or has spring(s) located improperly.

NEW LINKAGE.jpg

You might get some help with these video's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL6WmE7pPKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7rvHH0IPPk


#5

L

Leaky8

Thanks for feedback.
I have watched the video's and rechecked all the parts and linkages. I understand the Governor controls the idle.

Questions:
When the engine is in-started, should I be able to move throttle against the IDLE screw?
I am looking for an ENGINE Repair Manual. My Engine is a 445877 model and I'm told the
B&S 273521 will cover my Engine. Can anyone confirm this? What can I expect to pay for one?
Thanks.

Leaky


#6

L

Luffydog

With the engine off the throttle linkage to governor should be at wide open throttle and you should be able to move it to the idle pos. Now with the engine running the governor will pull it to idle if not I say u have a governor issue. It might be the arm turning on the governor shaft or an internal issue to the governor itself. Some Briggs are famous for the turning on the inside and spinning and if that is true that part is made into the block and is not replaceable and at that point a new engine would prob be the best knowing it ran wide open and not knowing what damage it had caused. The carb wants to run the engine wide open and fast as it can the governor wants to run the engine as slow as it can.


#7

L

Leaky8

Luffydog said:
With the engine off the throttle linkage to governor should be at wide open throttle and you should be able to move it to the idle pos. Now with the engine running the governor will pull it to idle if not I say u have a governor issue. It might be the arm turning on the governor shaft or an internal issue to the governor itself. Some Briggs are famous for the turning on the inside and spinning and if that is true that part is made into the block and is not replaceable and at that point a new engine would prob be the best knowing it ran wide open and not knowing what damage it had caused. The carb wants to run the engine wide open and fast as it can the governor wants to run the engine as slow as it can.
Click to expand...
LufftyDog,
Thanks. I am leaning to it being the Governor. Can you speak to my manual question? A guy has a manual for sale for a Briggs & Stratton Intek V-Twin Cylinder OHV Repair Manual 273521-5/99 1999. I question how up to date it is based on the 1999. My Engine is at least a 2009 model year.
Thanks.

Leaky


#8

L

Luffydog

It should be close to yours only two things might be different in all Briggs ohv engines is valve settings and the carb it self.


#9

NorthBama

NorthBama

Leaky8 said:
LufftyDog,
Thanks. I am leaning to it being the Governor. Can you speak to my manual question? A guy has a manual for sale for a Briggs & Stratton Intek V-Twin Cylinder OHV Repair Manual 273521-5/99 1999. I question how up to date it is based on the 1999. My Engine is at least a 2009 model year.
Thanks.

Leaky
Click to expand...

I sent you a PM about a manual


#10

L

Leaky8

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback and support.
Can't really complain about the Craftsman, I got it in 09 and she has
kept 5 acres of grass at bay since then.

Has the symptoms of a Governor problem MHO.

Need to open it up and see.
I'll provide feedback as I go.

Leaky


#11

L

Leaky8

Luffydog said:
It should be close to yours only two things might be different in all Briggs ohv engines is valve settings and the carb it self.
Click to expand...

Hi all,

Update: No surprises, but I'm finding the removal of the engine pulley to be a real challenge. PB Blaster, broke one HF puller and the battle continues. No signs of movement.
Leaky


#12

L

Luffydog

Sometimes they can be a pain for sure. Guessing that you did remove the bolt. Sometimes it has to move up before it will come down. I have a small air hammer that I use on some of those tough ones. Don't think it would have a set screw in it. Does this unit have an double pulley one for the drive belt and the lower for the mower belt or does it have an electric clutch.


#13

L

Leaky8

Luffydog,

Thanks for the Post.

It has an Electric Clutch which came out with no problem. Directly above the Clutch is the single Engine Pulley which has a sleeve running up against the mower housing. Hence, no way to get penetrating fluid in to soak inside of shaft and pulley.
I have cleaned the exposed shaft below the pulley really good and removed key. There is no set screw. I will try to move it up with an air hammer as suggested. I don't know why it will not just slide off. It's only been on there for 9 years.


#14

B

bertsmobile1

They rust on solid.
Water condenses from being in a unheated shed.
When you get it off clean out the shaft and the pulley sleeve ( make a flap cleaner with a piece of dowel with a slit and some emery paper )

To get it off put some sort of levers behind the pulley levering it off the engine then hit the centre bolt with the air hammer till it shifts a little.
Penetrating fluid on the exposed shaft and down the key slot ( helps if slot is up )
.
Tap pulley back on apply air hammer.
Repeat till pulley is off.

On really stubborn ones you might need to heat the pulley shaft up to dull red hot to brake the rust seal
Always try to lever against the boss and not the pulley itself.
A ball joint seperator works really well if you can get it in there.

Really stubborn ones have to come off the mower to get proper access.


#15

L

Leaky8

Hello,

The Pulley is not giving it up.

Pulley has to come off BEFORE the engine can be removed.
The hole is not wide enough for the pulley to clear.

Despite my efforts, the pulley is distorted and will need to be replaced.

Can the pulley hub be cut with a grinder taking precautions with crankshaft?

Has anyone done this?

Thanks.

Leaky


#16

B

bertsmobile1

You are going to need to remove the pulley from the sleeve then slit the sleeve along the key shaft line in order to avoid hitting the crank.
A very small nick can cause it to fracture in use.


#17

L

Leaky8

Thanks for feedback. I've seen a LOT of frozen parts on cars/trucks (I.e. O2 sensors, King Pins, bearings) but this is a tough nut to crack.
If I could only invert the entire unit so as to let PB Blaster or equivalent penetrate, I think it would have come off by now. Gravity is against me
however. Onward!!!

Thanks.
Leaky


#18

B

bertsmobile1

I have just finished pulling the same sprocket off a Kohler SV720.
Took 4 heatings to red hot to get it to shift, thus cooking the oil seal.\
About 3 hours work, after the engine was out.
The only liquid that will work is hydrochloric acid which dissolves rust.
It also dissolves alloy pretty quick as well.
The parts are not stuck, they are rusted together.
This is a physical and chemical bond.

If you have an air hammer and oxy gear then heat it red hot all round then cool with water.
Down side is you have to get the sleeve red on both side of the pulley which is difficult if you can not pull the engine without setting the mower on fire.
What might work is heating the pulley sleeve then spraying inside the PTO shaft with liquid freeze, just watch your hands and wear heavy gloves cause that liquid freeze will burn very deeply before you know it is on your hands.

Other alternative is clamping a bearing seperator in the V of the pulley , pop a dummy bolt in the PTO shaft hole to protect the thread a.nd clamp the puller down tight.
Now hit the pulley sleeve with the oxy and if you are lucky it will shift about 1/32"
Tighten the puller and repeat several times .
If you got some hot gear then an impact gun on the end of the puller while the shaft is being heated will also work.
If you go this route, take the plugs out and stuff some rope down the one that is on the firing stroke then compress the piston into the rope to prevent the engine spinning when you are using the rattle gun.

If you remove the battery & drain or remove the fuel tank then you can stand the mower vertical to get better access to the pulley.
I use a yard crane to do it now, previously I used an engine crane.
On ZTRs you are still working 14" off the ground but at least you are not upside down.

IF you stand it up then you can rotate the shaft so the key slot is up then degrease the shaft followed with some acid applied up the key slot with a syringe.


#19

L

Luffydog

I had one that held on for about a month before letting go. I just tapped around the shaft with a hammer everyday and added more wd40 each day. Then gave it a rattle with air gun as well all this time I had a puller on it while doing it. Finally it started to move very little then I went up and then down as much as it would go then cleaned and went back up. It was a long process but it came off. I also have had some that just wouldn't and has been destroyed that's why I always let them know up front on what they could be facing before doing the job and if they don't like what they hear then just nicely turn them down nothing like having to pay for when it is something you can't prevent. Three of mine was on all Kohler's setting in cub cadets. The other was a Briggs and can't remember on what unit


#20

B

bertsmobile1

And I forgot to mention , a rattle gun on a puller works a lot better than a 6' pipe on the end of the wrench.
The sudden shock will do a lot more to break a rusted on part or locked taper than an increasing slowly applied force.


#21

L

Leaky8

bertsmobile1 said:
I have just finished pulling the same sprocket off a Kohler SV720.
Took 4 heatings to red hot to get it to shift, thus cooking the oil seal.\
About 3 hours work, after the engine was out.
The only liquid that will work is hydrochloric acid which dissolves rust.
It also dissolves alloy pretty quick as well.
The parts are not stuck, they are rusted together.
This is a physical and chemical bond.

If you have an air hammer and oxy gear then heat it red hot all round then cool with water.
Down side is you have to get the sleeve red on both side of the pulley which is difficult if you can not pull the engine without setting the mower on fire.
What might work is heating the pulley sleeve then spraying inside the PTO shaft with liquid freeze, just watch your hands and wear heavy gloves cause that liquid freeze will burn very deeply before you know it is on your hands.

Other alternative is clamping a bearing seperator in the V of the pulley , pop a dummy bolt in the PTO shaft hole to protect the thread a.nd clamp the puller down tight.
Now hit the pulley sleeve with the oxy and if you are lucky it will shift about 1/32"
Tighten the puller and repeat several times .
If you got some hot gear then an impact gun on the end of the puller while the shaft is being heated will also work.
If you go this route, take the plugs out and stuff some rope down the one that is on the firing stroke then compress the piston into the rope to prevent the engine spinning when you are using the rattle gun.

If you remove the battery & drain or remove the fuel tank then you can stand the mower vertical to get better access to the pulley.
I use a yard crane to do it now, previously I used an engine crane.
On ZTRs you are still working 14" off the ground but at least you are not upside down.

IF you stand it up then you can rotate the shaft so the key slot is up then degrease the shaft followed with some acid applied up the key slot with a syringe.
Click to expand...


Thanks. If these approaches don't free it, I probably need a new mower. Appreciate the feedback.

Leaky


#22

L

Leaky8

Thanks again. I appreciate any and all advice. Man, this a tough nut for sure. Explains why it took me forever to get three ORIGINAL blades off my daughters Lexmart(sp). It had splined insert washers and the previous owner DID zero maintenance. :) I'll keep the press on. Thanks very much.

Leaky


#23

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Leaky can you get the engine off the mower ????? It would be a lot easier that way or do like already said... Drain the oil and gas, take the battery out and turn the mower on it's side with something holding it.....

Then take a torch like already said, then get the pulley red hot and quench it right away with a water hose.... Then use a air chisel with a bolt in the shaft to protect the threads while pulling on the pulley..........

It should slide right off...... With some effort though....

Yes you gonna have to change the seal anyway.........


#24

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Boudreaux In Eunice La.

Here's a funny video that says what I said...... I'm surprised I never saw this one before......

Enjoy Mon Ami ~!~!

https://youtu.be/ok0gAomeeoo


#25

L

Leaky8

Boudreaux In Eunice La. said:
Leaky can you get the engine off the mower ????? It would be a lot easier that way or do like already said... Drain the oil and gas, take the battery out and turn the mower on it's side with something holding it.....

Then take a torch like already said, then get the pulley red hot and quench it right away with a water hose.... Then use a air chisel with a bolt in the shaft to protect the threads while pulling on the pulley..........

It should slide right off...... With some effort though....

Yes you gonna have to change the seal anyway.........
Click to expand...


Boudreaux,
Thanks for feedback. No, I have not gotten it off yet. I was called away for another family project, so I will get back on it this week and post progress. I REALLY appreciate the feedback, advice and ideas. Sometimes we are so into the job we cannot see a solution. Thankfully, others like you guys do and share. Thanks again.

Leaky


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