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Toro 20334 Personal Pace Mower - Strange Noise When Engaging/Disengaging Drive

#1

cruise42

cruise42

My Toro Model 20334, s/n 316027993 mower is going on it's 3rd season since buying new.

Recently a strange noise has developed when engaging/disengaging drive when mowing. Self propel is operation and mower can be pulled backwards when drive is disengaged.

Noise is intermittent...sometimes it's there the next time it's not when engaging forward motion. Sounds "metallic" in nature. Removed all 4 wheels at start of season to clean out lawn debris, installed new TORO OEM blade (torqued to 60 ft-lbs), changed oil, and replaced sparkplug. Everything went back together as designed including keys on rear axle. Drive belt in good shape, underside of deck is clean.

Any ideas of what I should be looking at next to resolve noise problem ?


#2

R

Rivets

You have a 2016 unit and I suspect your problem is the drive gears ans or rear wheels. Remove the wheel and take a look at the drive gear and wheel gear. I think you will find they are worn. If you don’t think they are worn please include a picture or two so we can see them. Don’t order any parts until you post back, as the bearing hocs may also be worn.


#3

K

Kraut69

I want to jump in on this discussion as i’m Having a similar issue with my 2011 model. Mower ran great for about 7-8 years with no major problems and all of a sudden I start getting grinding noises like cruise42. Replaced plastic gears once and everything was good for awhile,but grinding returned and slowly destroyed the plastic gears. I had seen on YouTube were you could replace the plastic gears with metal ones and I did this upgrade to the tune of about $60 U.S. All good once again,but lately been clicking and today got a grinding sound at one point,usually happens when the bag has some clippings in it thus extra weight. I’m starting to suspect that maybe the transmission gears are getting worn and causing it to slip under load. Can these transmissions be rebuilt or is it easier just to replace them ?


#4

D

deminin

I had the same issues with my Toro 20066 that I bought way back in about 2008, This April the gears started grinding and the "personal pace" started jumping in and out. The Transmission was Shot. I found a new transmission on EBAY for $43, and bought a new belt at the same time for $12. I replaced both....a bit of a PITA job, but now the mower works like new. When I took the old transmission out, the bearing under the drive belt pulley was toast....had a major wobble.


#5

R

Rivets

Kraut, major mistake, never hyjack a thread. This will be very confusing and then you and the member who started the thread will both be out of luck. If you can delete your post and start a new thread. I’ll be glad to help you then, but am not going to post to different unit in the same thread. Sorry.


#6

cruise42

cruise42

Rivets...Thanks for your insight.

It was way too hot today to pull wrenches in the garage today but I did attempt to isolate sound by pulling and pushing on mower.

Sound is definitely coming from lefthand wheel assembly...sound like centerlines that shaft mounted pinion and gear mounted to backside of wheel are not running parallel with respect to each other. I plan to pull wheel assembly tomorrow for closeup look and take some photos. Rear wheel assemblies do not appear to be "toed -in".


#7

cruise42

cruise42

ok...finally snapped a few pics showing LH pinion & wheel gear. Considering design of propel system and fact gears run without lubrication I don't think teeth look all that bad after 3 seasons of taking a pounding. Definitely visible wear at pitching. Shaft bearing/bushing intact...not wallowed out.


#8

cruise42

cruise42

Photos of pinion & gear

Attachments







#9

D

deminin

cruise42 said:
ok...finally snapped a few pics showing LH pinion & wheel gear. Considering design of propel system and fact gears run without lubrication I don't think teeth look all that bad after 3 seasons of taking a pounding. Definitely visible wear at pitching. Shaft bearing/bushing intact...not wallowed out.
Click to expand...

These gears look as good, or better than mine, and I'm not having any troubles...SINCE, I replaced the worn out transmission. If in doubt, you can usually pick up a kit to replace the shaft gears, springs, and keys for about $20.


#10

R

Rivets

That drive gear is worn and I would replace it. When you checked the bushing did you try moving the shaft in all directions, on both sides. You don’t want to lube those gears as lube would attract dirt causing them to wear faster.


#11

cruise42

cruise42

Rivets...I did try moving transmission shaft in all directions both sides...all was good. When I change out pinions I'm thinking of stacking a few extra thrust washers on each side of mower between pinion and adjustment bracket to take out some of the axial float of transmission shift in attempt to keep pinion & wheel gear teeth better engaged. It would be nice if Toro increased face width of wheel gear...that way forces would be reduced/more evenly spread across width of mesh.

What do you think ?

Bill


#12

R

Rivets

Sorry, my mistake. I reread the entire thread before I posted and I combined different problems into one answer. That’s what happens when there are posts about different models in one thread. For cruise42 you have worn drive gears, which will cause the grinding sound. I have seen the pinion and bevel gears inside the tranny wear, but very seldom, unless severely worn do they make noise. Most of the time this wear is caused by the bushing on each side of the tranny wearing first, then taking out the tranny gears.


#13

cruise42

cruise42

Hey Rivets...

Any idea what year Toro stopped using some form of spring loaded key clutch mechanism on their rear wheel Personal Pace lawnmowers ?
My Model 20334 (2016 vintage) has no such key. Drive pinions have squared off bores that lok it to transmission shaft having milled flats on each end...no keys.

simplifies drive system but when you stop to think about it you are constantly pulling thru slipping belt when dragging mower backwards. System relies on drive belt going slack due to transmission rotating forward towards engine decreasing tension on belt.

Would much rather have drive pinions keyed to shaft with some form of clutch mechanism that would engage drive pinion when going forward and allow pinion to basically freewheel when backing up.

Interested in your comments.


#14

S

slomo

I've opened a couple of those transmissions up. All were bone dry lacking lube. Gears were noisy as you might guess. Cleaned them out with Diesel and an old paint brush. Refilled with 00 Snapper grease if I recall correctly. Took all the noise out. The ones I did were on Super Recyclers.

slomo


#15

R

Rivets

Toro switched to keyless drives 6 or 7 years ago. Your understanding of the keyed drive is not quite right. The only time the key disengages is when you pull back on the unit, allowing it to roll easily backwards. The belt drive system is the same on both units. I have not run into any units that did not have grease in the trannies.


#16

cruise42

cruise42

Rivets...I took a real hard look at LH side of mower. It does appear wheel axle bracket is slightly "toed - in". If I force wheel straight grinding noise is greatly reduced. Have you had any luck in hard swimming bracket to correct toe-in ? Would you consider use of steel washer shim permanent fix ?

I'm guessing bracket and/of steel deck deflects when pivoting mower on rear wheels to navigate turns,etc.


#17

R

Rivets

Pretty hard to bend that large bracket and deck, but anything is possible. Because the tranny is closer to the left wheel (where the belt tension is) I’m still leaning toward a worn bearing, bearing hoc and bushing on that side. Any or all of these is possible, but I’m not there to see what you see. How you proceed is up to you, but trying to find a shim and installing it is not something I would try without removing and inspecting the parts I talked about.


#18

cruise42

cruise42

Rivets...

Finally got around to replacing Drive Pinions on both sides of mower. Noise is greatly reduced especially these are straight cut gears running unlubed.

Still more noise than I'd like on LH side of drive. Even though bearing, sleeve bushing look tight I'm going to replace. Can you tell me how pivot arm is held in place ? Does it screw onto bearing retainer, or is there a retaining ring I'm not seeing ?

Thanks for your help.


#19

R

Rivets

What do you mean by pivot arm?


#20

cruise42

cruise42

Rivets said:
What do you mean by pivot arm?
Click to expand...
"Pivot Arm" is flagged as Ref. # 8 on pages 12 and 13 of attached Toro Parts Manual for my specific Model and Serial No.

Attachments


  • Toro Parts Catalog.zip
    519 KB · Views: 8


#21

R

Rivets

Part number 17 is a retaining ring which holds the bracket ( pivot arm), bearing hoc, and gear together on the shaft.


#22

cruise42

cruise42

Rivets...when I had retaining ring off to replace drive pinion I gave Pivot Arm a pretty good tug...it didn't move...any thoughts ?


#23

R

Rivets

Snap ring on bearing hoc or bracket is stuck on bearing hoc.


#24

R

rice4me

Kraut69 said:
I want to jump in on this discussion as i’m Having a similar issue with my 2011 model. Mower ran great for about 7-8 years with no major problems and all of a sudden I start getting grinding noises like cruise42. Replaced plastic gears once and everything was good for awhile,but grinding returned and slowly destroyed the plastic gears. I had seen on YouTube were you could replace the plastic gears with metal ones and I did this upgrade to the tune of about $60 U.S. All good once again,but lately been clicking and today got a grinding sound at one point,usually happens when the bag has some clippings in it thus extra weight. I’m starting to suspect that maybe the transmission gears are getting worn and causing it to slip under load. Can these transmissions be rebuilt or is it easier just to replace them ?
Click to expand...
Look at this video and see if it is your problem. My wheel gears were wearing off on the outer edge because the wheel mounting plate was not parallel. I corrected the toe-in condition with an inexpensive solution. If wheel gear is plastic then the wheel teeth were wearing, but if you have a metal wheel gear then you might see wear on the metal pinion. Hope this helps.


#25

R

Rivets

Rice, do you realize that this thread is 3.5 years old?


#26

R

rice4me

Rivets said:
Rice, do you realize that this thread is 3.5 years old?
Click to expand...
Yes but if someone else searches for symptoms maybe they will see the reply. Thanks for replying though.


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